Insulting Christmas

[OneTrueCathApos]

Actually, Diwali, Winter Solstice, Hannukkah (a minor festival, but still, a festival), Kwanzaa and New Years all can fall (but don’t always due to the irregularity of the lunar calendar) during the winter holidays (and a new one, Festivus, which I thought was a joke, but maybe not). That’s the reason many people say Good Holiday rather than singling out any one religious event.

Just because Christianity lays claim to being the most populous religion in this nation doesn’t mean it gets to stomp on everyone else’s traditions and festivals.

**THERE WAS NEVER EVER ANYTHING ELSE BEING CELEBRATED, NO KWANZA, NO DIWALI?, NO WINTER SOLSTICE. JUST CHRISTMAS! THE BIRTH OF OUR SAVIOR! THAT’S IT! IT IS ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO STEP IN AND HAVE THEIR “OWN” HOLIDAY THAT IS NOT EVEN A FEDERAL HOLIDAY EXCEPT CHRISTMAS! GET REAL PEOPLE. Non-Catholics are totally jealous of this holiday because one told me so. It is CHRIST-MAS. period. whew… **

 

[Dale_M]

THERE WAS NEVER EVER ANYTHING ELSE BEING CELEBRATED

Our country is admitting to its diversity, which has grown significantly during the past 60 years. Why is this a bad thing?

 

[Matariel]

Our country is admitting to its diversity, which has grown significantly during the past 60 years. Why is this a bad thing?

Sometimes one can only tell whether on not something’s to be accepted, only later, after the rapid changes have already taken place. Hopefully people can embrace that.

Hope this helps.

 

[cerad]

Matariel:

No, Christmas (Christ Mass) is a Catholic holiday, adopted and practiced in a transmorgrified way by some other groups as a secular celebration, which is oxymoronic. The Romans tried to establish an holiday called Saturnalia in order to “out-do” the Catholic Church in ancient times and encourage Pagans to stick to their own holidays.

Just a minor nitpick but Saturnalia dates back to at least 217 BC and possibly even a few centuries earlier.
penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/saturnalia.html

 

[KathleenElsie]

Um, actually, yeah, it is a federal holiday.

No, Christmas (Christ Mass) is a Catholic holiday, adopted and practiced in a transmorgrified way by some other groups as a secular celebration, which is oxymoronic. The Romans tried to establish an holiday called Saturnalia in order to “out-do” the Catholic Church in ancient times and encourage Pagans to stick to their own holidays.

You’re wrong, Christmas is a federal holiday; athiests don’t have a federal holiday in December.

I think those poor, philosophically- and logically-bankrupt atheists should spend their time on something more constructive.

Good post thank you.

 

[marietta]

**

**THERE WAS NEVER EVER ANYTHING ELSE BEING CELEBRATED, NO KWANZA, NO DIWALI?, NO WINTER SOLSTICE. JUST CHRISTMAS! THE BIRTH OF OUR SAVIOR! THAT’S IT! IT IS ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO STEP IN AND HAVE THEIR “OWN” HOLIDAY THAT IS NOT EVEN A FEDERAL HOLIDAY EXCEPT CHRISTMAS! GET REAL PEOPLE. Non-Catholics are totally jealous of this holiday because one told me so. It is CHRIST-MAS. period. whew… **

**

This is obviously upsetting to you. Want to talk about it?

marietta

 

[Matariel]

Just a minor nitpick but Saturnalia dates back to at least 217 BC and possibly even a few centuries earlier.
penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/saturnalia.html

That’s quite correct. There is evidence that it was a reaction to Christmas (which was celebrated earlier than most realize, maybe even in apostolic times) though, although I will have to do some research in order back this claim up. Until then, you’ll have question what I’m saying.

 

[wisdom_3_5]

Very good blog post at American Catholic:

the-american-catholic.com/2008/12/05/keep-christ-in-christmas-the-choice-is-yours/

 

[wynnejj]

Hear what’s going on in Washington these days? There is an Atheist who put up a sign that reads, “There is no God, there is no heaven and hell, Religion isn’t there, we live in a natural world”. At the beginning he addresses this large poster with a “Happy Solstice”.

The Atheist was just getting back for some Halloween humor - you know, those headstones with funny inscriptions.

“Here lies an Atheist. All dressed up and nowhere to go.”

 

[Julianna]

But that’s why Christmas is so big in the USA. It’s a cultural thing far more than a religious thing. My family gathers at Christmas, we celebrate pretty much every creed under the sun, but we all get together, exchange gifts, have a big meal, take pictures, argue, and do all the other things at Christmas. My sis goes to midnight Mass (she’s a regular Church goer), but she’s the only one that does anything religious for the event.

The same is true in my partner’s family, the ones who are already religious go to Church but everyone else doesn’t. And that doesn’t keep that everyone else from being part of the festivities on Christmas day.

Besides as I look at lawn decorations, I see polar bears, trees, snoopy on a dog house, snow globes with critters in them, reindeers, sleighs, Santas, elves, and an occasional creche, but the creches seem to be heavily outnumbered by secular Christmas displays, now I know many Protestants won’t put up a creche (though the Episcopalians and Lutherans don’t seem to have any issues), but my neighborhood is overwhelmingly Catholic and Orthodox Christian (at least culturally, I’m not sure what the attendance rates are and how many are ex- of their family faith).

Thank you! Your post just reminded me how lucky I am to live in the United States of America. The athiest can hold up a sign…and ya know…so can I. It will be a sad day when Americans are no longer allowed free speech or freedom of religion.

My sister’s SIL who is Jewish visited our family many years ago and brought their young daughter (8 yrs old). When my dad found out they were coming, he went out on Christmas Eve and bought a doll for her. My mother questioned, “You better ask her parents before you give it to her.” My dad was concerned that while we were opening presents after dinner on Christmas Day that she would be the only one without a gift. My dad wrapped it in Hanukkah paper. When the family arrived, my dad took the parents aside and asked, “Is it ok if I give your daughter this gift”. They said it was ok and appreciated my dad thinking of their child. My family, neighbors and community are as diverse as yours. And it is a welcome diversity. I have learned much.

 

[Julianna]

THERE WAS NEVER EVER ANYTHING ELSE BEING CELEBRATED, NO KWANZA, NO DIWALI?, NO WINTER SOLSTICE. JUST CHRISTMAS! THE BIRTH OF OUR SAVIOR! THAT’S IT! IT IS ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO STEP IN AND HAVE THEIR “OWN” HOLIDAY THAT IS NOT EVEN A FEDERAL HOLIDAY EXCEPT CHRISTMAS! GET REAL PEOPLE. Non-Catholics are totally jealous of this holiday because one told me so. It is CHRIST-MAS. period. whew…

That may be true in your little fish bowl. But there is a big wide world out there. People of all cultures celebrate at this time of year. Not sure of your age…but growing up in a very ethnic area in Massachusetts…where most were “Catholic”…Christmas was celebrated very differently depending on whose house you went to, and yes, whose “parish” you attended. Yes, yes, the Mass was the same. But the “culture” was definately in place. If you were of Italian decent, you attended Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, if you were of Irish decent, you attended Holy Name, if you were of Polish decent you attended Holy Trinity. If you went to any of the homes I mentioned above, “Christs-Mass” was celebrated “culturally”.

When I moved to SC, the “culture” was very different. Not because of the many Protestant churches, because the Catholics were so few in number, that there was a “blend” depending on where you grew up. If you came down from the northeast, you brought the culture with you and blended it with southern Catholic culture. My DH is from Michigan, in a rural area, so their culture was very different from mine. They didn’t have huge “family” parties before, during and after Christmas like my Italian relatives did. My Baptist grandmother and her culture, ate Christmas dinner at 12 noon. We always ate Christmas dinner at 4 in the afternoon. Still do…that carried over.

A good friend of mine in SC, a Catholic of African decent, does celebrate Kwanzaa. She asked my dad to make her a candle holder of wood and she did. She invited my husband and I over one day to celebrate with them. It was interesting. Her husband is from Haiti and I had the pleasure of trying some homemade Haitian rum. Holy Cow! that was good. Her husband is also Catholic, and I could see the Haitian influences throughout their home and Christmas decorations.

Sorry folks, I can’t live in a fishbowl. As the Latin phrase goes,

E Pluribus Unum

 

[cerad]

That’s quite correct. There is evidence that it was a reaction to Christmas (which was celebrated earlier than most realize, maybe even in apostolic times) though, although I will have to do some research in order back this claim up. Until then, you’ll have question what I’m saying.

I am not entirely sure I understand your particular dialect but I have been waiting for you to backup your claim that Christians were celebrating Christmas for over two hundred years before the birth of Christ.

 

[Matariel]

I am not entirely sure I understand your particular dialect but I have been waiting for you to backup your claim that Christians were celebrating Christmas for over two hundred years before the birth of Christ.

Did I say Saturnalia? I meant the festival of the Unconquered Sun.

 

[Lynn_Suer]

The priest who gave our parish’s Advent retreat quoted Luke chap. 1 for the date of Christmas. Zechariah was of the priestly division of Abijah, and was performing his temple service during Yom Kippur when the angel told him he would have a son. This Day of Atonement falls between mid-September and early October, based on a lunar calendar, with Sept. 25 as a median. At the Annunciation, the Angel Gabriel told Mary that Elizabeth was then in her sixth month. Counting from Sept. 25, this would place the Annunciation on March 25, with the birth of John the Baptist three months later in June. The Church celebrates the Annunciation on March 25 and the birth of John the Baptist on June 24. Nine months after March 25 is December 25, Christmas. The earliest known reference to December 25 as the date of Christ’s birthday is 243 A.D.

The Emperor Aurelian, who started the cult of Sol Invictus (“the unconquered sun”) did so in 274 A.D., after December 25 was already established as the birthday of Christ.

Fathers Rumble and Carty in their books, Radio Replies, state that absolutely no proof has or can be given for asserting that Catholicism is in any way dependent on mythology, and similarities between it and other religions have been invented or hopelessly exaggerated. The Catholic Church “is and ever was the most bitter opponent of paganism.” Early Christians were prepared to die rather than sacrifice to pagan idols, and believed these idols to be devils. Many of the early Christians were Jews who would never have abandoned Mosaic beliefs to practice pagan rites which they hated and held in abomination. “It is unhistorical to maintain the derivation of divinely revealed worship of the one true God from the humanly invented worship of sun gods and earth gods.”

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

If your wife doesn’t call it Christmas on December 25, then she has a problem identifying this FEDERAL holiday. I don’t have a problem with “other” faiths having their Kwanzaa, their Hannukah, their Diwali etc…they are all insignificant to me as well as millions of other people at this time of the year. It is the birth of Jesus Christ and every person should celebrate it period. After all, Christ is the Savior of every one on earth regardless of their “other” religions. In which I may add, the Catholic faith is the Universal religion of mankind. Not any other religion.

 

[Lujack]

If your wife doesn’t call it Christmas on December 25, then she has a problem identifying this FEDERAL holiday. I don’t have a problem with “other” faiths having their Kwanzaa, their Hannukah, their Diwali etc…they are all insignificant to me as well as millions of other people at this time of the year. It is the birth of Jesus Christ and every person should celebrate it period. After all, Christ is the Savior of every one on earth regardless of their “other” religions. In which I may add, the Catholic faith is the Universal religion of mankind. Not any other religion.

I’ll ask you again:

Can something be a holiday without being federally recognized?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I’ll ask you again:

Can something be a holiday without being federally recognized?

No. Because it isn’t as important as a Federal holiday.

 

[Lujack]

No. Because it isn’t as important as a Federal holiday.

Really? So Martin Luther King Day is more important than the Feast of the Immaculate Conception?

 

[elts1956]

The Catholic Church Fathers would come in handy.

Although I do have to agree with them that Christmas (Christ Mass) is a Catholic holiday…

I wish that were true. The largest most vicious attack against Christmas I have ever witnessed in this past week has been from my fundalmentalist friends. To the point of where I can barely even talk to them it is making me so angry.

I am tired of the sun god birthday anti-RCC nonsense, and I am not even Catholic!

I swear it is like they are channeling Jack Chic.

All of a sudden I am worshiping my Christmas tree! And I have pointed out all their verses they throw at me are a moot point, as they are barking up the wrong kind of tree. My Christmas tree was not worked with an axe, still has its branches, is not nailed and covered with precious metals and neither does it have designs carved into it. I do not cut myself under it as I am not that emo, though I wish my lawn was. And I take my tree down after Christmas.

They are also using a book to back them up called Blinded by the Sun, and one of its sources IS JACK CHIC. I also brought out that another source is Alexander Hislop’s* “The Two Babylons” *which was written in 1853. And how it is also now known that much of that information was inaccurate, so to use it now as “gospel truth” would be inexcusable.
They said I am insulting God, so I brought their attention to this verse, and even used the KJV ,

Malachi 4:2

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the** Sun** of righteousness arise with healing in his wings.

And mentioned that there are many descriptive words for Jesus used in the bible and the word Sun was not a misprint.

I also told them that God was very intelligent and knows it is the birth of His Sun of righteousness that I am celebrating.

Most had no response.

Eh, I decided why bother, why argue? In all reality though I am really surprised, another group of friends I know both online and in my area have also gone this legalistic route.

Darn it, I may have to hang with you Catholics for a while, and more than likely at Easter as well! Just remember, I don’t swim and I am allergic to the Tiber!

We would be happy to help you build a bridge.

 

[elts1956]

Hi, Sorry I lost the tail of the posting, but some folks are mentioning Kwanzaa as though it is a religious celebration. It isn’t. It is a family oriented celebration of life and self worth.

DEFINITION OF KWANZAA

Kwanzaa is a unique African American celebration with focus on the traditional African values of family, community responsibility, commerce, and self-improvement. Kwanzaa is neither political nor religious and despite some misconceptions, is not a substitute for Christmas. It is simply a time of reaffirming African-American people, their ancestors and culture. Kwanzaa, which means “first fruits of the harvest” in the African language Kiswahili, has gained tremendous acceptance. Since its founding in 1966 by Dr. Maulana Karenga, Kwanzaa has come to be observed by more than18 million people worldwide, as reported by the New York Times. When establishing Kwanzaa in 1966, Dr. Karenga included an additional “a” to the end of the spelling to reflect the difference between the African American celebration (kwanzaa) and the Motherland spelling (kwanza).

Kwanzaa is based on the Nguzo Saba (seven guiding principles), one for each day of the observance, and is celebrated from December 26th to January 1st.

1.Umoja (oo-MO-jah) Unity stresses the importance of togetherness for the family and the community, which is reflected in the African saying, “I am We,” or “I am because We are.”
2.Kujichagulia (koo-gee-cha-goo-LEE-yah) Self-Determination requires that we define our common interests and make decisions that are in the best interest of our family and community.
3.Ujima (oo-GEE-mah) Collective Work and Responsibility reminds us of our obligation to the past, present and future, and that we have a role to play in the community, society, and world.
4.Ujamaa (oo-JAH-mah) Cooperative economics emphasizes our collective economic strength and encourages us to meet common needs through mutual support.
5.Nia (NEE-yah) Purpose encourages us to look within ourselves and to set personal goals that are beneficial to the community.
6.Kuumba (koo-OOM-bah) Creativity makes use of our creative energies to build and maintain a strong and vibrant community.
7.Imani (ee-MAH-nee) Faith focuses on honoring the best of our traditions, draws upon the best in ourselves, and helps us strive for a higher level of life for humankind, by affirming our self-worth and confidence in our ability to succeed and triumph in righteous struggle.

I worked for about eight years in a mid town school in KC Mo.

Some of the children and their families celebrated Kwanzaa,
Dec. 26 to Jan. 1 and some didn’t. All of the families I knew of celebrated Christmas as the Christians they are.