A
awantz
Guest
I have attended RCIA and my husband has been Catholic since birth and he attended RCIA with me and we both agree that there is not much difference between Catholic and Protestant beliefs.
- Status
A
awantz
Guest
Yes, a Protestant believes that. Yes, many Protestants believe that. I can’t say exactly how many do. Not all Catholics believe it.
Yes, Protestants do believe in Transsubstantiation and I know some Catholics who don’t. You oviously don’t know the Protestant faith very well.
I beg to differ. Some might, but many don’t believe marriage to be a secular affair.
Protestants do believe in the neccessity of offering mass/ church service. I would much rather be ordained by a God than by a bishop. Some Protestant pastors are called priests on a regular basis.
Divorce is allowed in the Catholic Church. I know Catholics who have had a divorce and got remarried.
I’ve never heard of that and I’ve reviewed many Protestant denominations. Well, it’s happened within the Catholic Church.
I was told by a bishop in the Catholic Church that it is called an annulment. Maybe, it has two names.
Maybe not by some. However it is by most. That is new to me. I don’t know any Protestant denomination that believes that way. It is the case with most.
I know it and others quite well, including the Catholic faith. Yes, he does.
It does include that for some. Some will never change thier mind at a later date. Some do believe it is wrong.
A
awantz
Guest
Why do you need to go to a Priest when you can go directly to God. Just because you chose not to go doesn’t mean you are rejecting anything or anyone. You are just chosing not to take advantage of it. I know Catholics who choose not to go to Confession sometimes.
Catholics do not believe that Confession can be skipped. Telling children to confess directly to God if they like is not the same as sending them to Confession and is not a course of action that a Catholic parent can take.
Some do. Again, some do.
And sorry if I sounded harsh. I understand you want to defend your beliefs, as well as that you’re on a specific stage in your journey and I wish I could pass the information in a friendlier manner. If you don’t like the way I say it, please read a book or ask the apologists here. Wishing you all the best and a lot of God’s grace, as well as a Merry Christmas.
I’ve asked/ gotten my information from a Priest, Bishop, RCIA teacher, and many other leaders in the Catholic Church, as well as experience. As far as what I say about the Protestant faith I speak from experience.
C
chevalier
Guest
Awantz, I’m afraid you have either been badly misinformed or you have misunderstood something. It would be no surprise to me if someone Catholich had told you inaccurate things, but in the case of a bishop, I must assume that he gave you correct information, but his words were not explained to you in due detail by others.
First of all, you need to read about the sacrifice of mass and the sacrificial priesthood. Here are some links:
Transsubstantiation
Sacrifice of Mass
Priesthood
If you will sport a direct quotation: The Christian law also has necessarily its priesthood to carry out the Divine service, the principal act of which is the Eucharistic Sacrifice, the figure and renewal of that of Calvary. How many Protestants believe this?
Believing some community worship is necessary and some people need to lead it, is not the same as believing in the sacrifice of mass, transsubstantiation and sacrificial priesthood.
As for divorce, again, you’ve been badly misinformed. Divorce is not allowed and I’m going to give you a quotation from the canon law, straight from the Vatican homepage:
Can. 1141 A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.
No priest you may know, no RCIA instructor, not even a bishop can trump this. What you are talking about with regard to your friends is probably a civil divorce. If someone’s marriage is null and void sacramentally, he can dissolve the civil marriage and marry again. But this is not because of the civil divorce. It’s because the sacramental marriage didn’t in fact take place.
Another thing is that no Catholic is free to skip Confession. In the ordinary course, Confession is necessary for the remission of mortal sins. No Catholic priest or bishop will tell you that Confession is optional and that you can take advantage of it or choose not to. Similarly, priests must be ordained by bishops and no one can walk around claiming he’s been ordained by God. Also similarly, the fact that some Catholics do not believe in what the Church teaches doesn’t remove anything from the teaching. It simply means that those people don’t accept the magisterial teaching (Magisterium) of the Church by which they are bound.
As for “annulment”, that’s an incorrect name (my canon law professor would be mad with a student for using it), suggesting a marriage can be made null - an-null, i.e. make-null. A marriage is either valid or null. When two people exchange marital vows, they either do it or merely attempt to and fail in the attempt. When they don’t successfully enter into marriage, there’s no marriage and, after examination by a competent Church tribunal, if the marriage is found null by that tribunal, the people will be free to marry. But this is not divorce.
To sum up, I stronly suggest reading up at least on the Catholic faith, if not also on Protestant ones. You need to have your Protestant pastor tell you honestly what he believes happens on the altar and what his denomination believes. I will remind you that Lutheranism was founded on the principle that mass in the Catholic sense of the word was redundant. And no, “mass” is not the same as “service”. From the point of view of Catholic theology, a Protestant service is a community prayer of laymen, without the Eucharist being consecrated, without any sacrament taking place, which is basically the same as when lay Catholics gather for prayer without a priest and without mass.
The above leads me to suggest that perhaps you should read up on Protestant theology too.
First of all, you need to read about the sacrifice of mass and the sacrificial priesthood. Here are some links:
Transsubstantiation
Sacrifice of Mass
Priesthood
If you will sport a direct quotation: The Christian law also has necessarily its priesthood to carry out the Divine service, the principal act of which is the Eucharistic Sacrifice, the figure and renewal of that of Calvary. How many Protestants believe this?
Believing some community worship is necessary and some people need to lead it, is not the same as believing in the sacrifice of mass, transsubstantiation and sacrificial priesthood.
As for divorce, again, you’ve been badly misinformed. Divorce is not allowed and I’m going to give you a quotation from the canon law, straight from the Vatican homepage:
Can. 1141 A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.
No priest you may know, no RCIA instructor, not even a bishop can trump this. What you are talking about with regard to your friends is probably a civil divorce. If someone’s marriage is null and void sacramentally, he can dissolve the civil marriage and marry again. But this is not because of the civil divorce. It’s because the sacramental marriage didn’t in fact take place.
Another thing is that no Catholic is free to skip Confession. In the ordinary course, Confession is necessary for the remission of mortal sins. No Catholic priest or bishop will tell you that Confession is optional and that you can take advantage of it or choose not to. Similarly, priests must be ordained by bishops and no one can walk around claiming he’s been ordained by God. Also similarly, the fact that some Catholics do not believe in what the Church teaches doesn’t remove anything from the teaching. It simply means that those people don’t accept the magisterial teaching (Magisterium) of the Church by which they are bound.
As for “annulment”, that’s an incorrect name (my canon law professor would be mad with a student for using it), suggesting a marriage can be made null - an-null, i.e. make-null. A marriage is either valid or null. When two people exchange marital vows, they either do it or merely attempt to and fail in the attempt. When they don’t successfully enter into marriage, there’s no marriage and, after examination by a competent Church tribunal, if the marriage is found null by that tribunal, the people will be free to marry. But this is not divorce.
To sum up, I stronly suggest reading up at least on the Catholic faith, if not also on Protestant ones. You need to have your Protestant pastor tell you honestly what he believes happens on the altar and what his denomination believes. I will remind you that Lutheranism was founded on the principle that mass in the Catholic sense of the word was redundant. And no, “mass” is not the same as “service”. From the point of view of Catholic theology, a Protestant service is a community prayer of laymen, without the Eucharist being consecrated, without any sacrament taking place, which is basically the same as when lay Catholics gather for prayer without a priest and without mass.
The above leads me to suggest that perhaps you should read up on Protestant theology too.
A
awantz
Guest
My church is an independant non-denominational church. My pastor has said with his own mouth that he agrees with alot of the topics we have been talking about in the Catholic Church. Also, when I became a member at my church I signed a document showing what my church believes. I know what that is quite well. I’ve taken RCIA and my husband and his family are Catholic. So, I’ve already studied the Catholic faith and have people to ask questions on a topic when I am unsure. They feel that I know the Catholic faith quite well. Maybe the reason my church’s beliefs are so similar to the Catholic Church’s beliefs is because my pastor’s wife used to be Catholic and from what I know her family still is.
C
chevalier
Guest
That changes things, indeed. That’s what you get with many post-Reformation denominations - without a central authority, they can’t often maintain unity within one denomination, much less do different denominations agree with each other, even though they’re all lumped together as “Protestant”. You must be aware, however, that, historically, Protestantism relies on rejection of transsubstantiation, mass, sacrificial priesthood - not only the authority of the Pope. I believe someone in the RCIA needs to tell you more, or in more detail, or in less ambiguous terms, about divorce, about priests, about mass. They probably don’t want to lose you, maybe they don’t want to look like they’re exaggerating the differences, but the truth is different from what message comes out of that information. I wish catechists concerned with not seeming unwelcoming were more direct in saying what the Church believes in, without so much ambiguity as sometimes happens when they’re trying to be careful. You can trust the Catechism more than what people say. The Catechism is the basic compendium of the teaching of the Church - if you know what’s there, you won’t be misguided by people who don’t have a clue so much. When someone says he knows better than the Catechism or that canon law is wrong, don’t listen to him.
R
Rapida
Guest
I’m the Catholic half of a Muslim-Catholic interfaith Marriage. And yes. It’s a heck of a lot of work.
But the good things that havecome from it. astound me.
We pray together. He does his and I do mine. A fun synchronicity we found: Islam requires five preyers a day. A Rosary has five stages. I say a stage of the Rosary as he prays. Works out beautifully (the timing is almost perfect) and I say the rosary now more than I ever did.
We protect each other. He no more brooks any muslim using terms like “So Called Jesus” any more than I tolerate a Catholic whinging about the violence of Islam. We have both read, and come to understand and respect the lessons of faith of each of our faiths.
We guard each other’s faith. I ask him if he’s prayed when he comes home from work, and ensure he catches up on his prayers if things got too busy. He ensures I go to mass. The Bible and the Qu’ran sit side by side on the mantle, and each is treated with the same respect. I read ingedient labels and ask waiters about the possibilities of hidden pork in the foods. He is absolutely DELIGHTED to ensure that my Friday meals during Lent are seafood based. We fast at the same times. I fasted through Ramadan beside him, and he fasted through the Lenten required times with me. (Trust me they have a tougher day fasting than any Catholic can imagine)
We turn to our respective scriptures for support when things get tough. Both have such beautiful things to say on Marriage, and each time we do that kind of research we find ourselves cuddled close, books in our laps, sharing.
We are not afraid to talk to the other’s Spiritual leaders. We ask questions and when the questions go beyond our personal knowledge, neither of us hesitates to pick up the phone ask if an Imam or a Priest wants to have a cup of coffee.
We do have sticking points, But we hope sincerely with prayer, guidance, respect, and love we can work them out. Children are a big issue between us. Neither of our faiths gives any quarter on their upbringing. We know well that one if us will have to give ground. We just haven’t decided which one yet.
But, and here’s why I do think an interfaith marriage can work. Because once you’ve settled into a supportive and faith based life when there are such religious and cultural gaps between you… the cap on the toothpaste? Not a big deal.
I thank God for him. He shores up my faith. I know many days I feel that impinging “Dark Night of the Soul” that disconnection from God. But he holds my hand, and I have faith. He bows his head and says his Bismillah while I say my blessing. He reminds me that my relationship with God is personal, and one and one. That my prayers are not simply recitations, but acts of intent, with spirit and desire. He loves me the way I am, and I love him the same way.
Hopefully… or as he might say, Inshallah, this strength between us lasts…even when it’s hard. I pray it does. But I can tell you, sincerely it is NOT for everybody. It’s not so much a better person that can handle the difference. It is just a different person.
But the good things that havecome from it. astound me.
We pray together. He does his and I do mine. A fun synchronicity we found: Islam requires five preyers a day. A Rosary has five stages. I say a stage of the Rosary as he prays. Works out beautifully (the timing is almost perfect) and I say the rosary now more than I ever did.
We protect each other. He no more brooks any muslim using terms like “So Called Jesus” any more than I tolerate a Catholic whinging about the violence of Islam. We have both read, and come to understand and respect the lessons of faith of each of our faiths.
We guard each other’s faith. I ask him if he’s prayed when he comes home from work, and ensure he catches up on his prayers if things got too busy. He ensures I go to mass. The Bible and the Qu’ran sit side by side on the mantle, and each is treated with the same respect. I read ingedient labels and ask waiters about the possibilities of hidden pork in the foods. He is absolutely DELIGHTED to ensure that my Friday meals during Lent are seafood based. We fast at the same times. I fasted through Ramadan beside him, and he fasted through the Lenten required times with me. (Trust me they have a tougher day fasting than any Catholic can imagine)
We turn to our respective scriptures for support when things get tough. Both have such beautiful things to say on Marriage, and each time we do that kind of research we find ourselves cuddled close, books in our laps, sharing.
We are not afraid to talk to the other’s Spiritual leaders. We ask questions and when the questions go beyond our personal knowledge, neither of us hesitates to pick up the phone ask if an Imam or a Priest wants to have a cup of coffee.
We do have sticking points, But we hope sincerely with prayer, guidance, respect, and love we can work them out. Children are a big issue between us. Neither of our faiths gives any quarter on their upbringing. We know well that one if us will have to give ground. We just haven’t decided which one yet.
But, and here’s why I do think an interfaith marriage can work. Because once you’ve settled into a supportive and faith based life when there are such religious and cultural gaps between you… the cap on the toothpaste? Not a big deal.
I thank God for him. He shores up my faith. I know many days I feel that impinging “Dark Night of the Soul” that disconnection from God. But he holds my hand, and I have faith. He bows his head and says his Bismillah while I say my blessing. He reminds me that my relationship with God is personal, and one and one. That my prayers are not simply recitations, but acts of intent, with spirit and desire. He loves me the way I am, and I love him the same way.
Hopefully… or as he might say, Inshallah, this strength between us lasts…even when it’s hard. I pray it does. But I can tell you, sincerely it is NOT for everybody. It’s not so much a better person that can handle the difference. It is just a different person.
I
IrishJoe
Guest
huggles to last poster. That sounds tough but good 
of course other elements are right fruit loops and make me shudder to think that they call theselves Chrisitan. But only God can judge them I guess.
In my experience of some Protestant denominations are more Catholic and Christian and Charatable than a lot of Roman Catholics.
of course other elements are right fruit loops and make me shudder to think that they call theselves Chrisitan. But only God can judge them I guess.
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
I am glad you shared. And it was a joy to read about this inter-faith marriage and how well you have both made it work!
But experience shows that interfaith marriages generally go just fine - until the kids come along. That is where the problem begins. And though things are good now, those children, when they do come, will make life very difficult for the both of you, and for your respective families, if they are as religious as the both of you.
I think you have spoken too soon in stating that your interfaith marriage will work fine. And believe me, when the children come, it will be much more than just the “cap on the toothpaste”. It will be everything.
F
Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
**First off I would like to say that your relationship sounds wonderfully supportive and understanding. It is a true blessing when any two people can love each other as much as you both obviously do.
But if children are already a big issue between you, how do you see it working out realistically? You sound like a very devoted Catholic and he a devoted Muslim. One of you will have to sacrifice SO MUCH of what is dearest to you. How can that be good for a marriage (or your own souls)? I am not saying that you are doomed to a terrible life once children are added to the mix, but am honestly wondering how you see your future?
Malia**
R
Rapida
Guest
You’re both very right. As I said, it’s a sticking point, one that we know is going to cause a lot of heartache in our future. There are some very valid points for each side of our argument.
Pro-Catholic:
Catholicism is Christianity, which is far more accepted here in the deep south than Islam is.
It is easier to find a good Catholic school and an Islamic school here.
His family is 13,000 miles away. Mine is about 200. Mine will have Christmas expectations at the very least, not to mention Easter.
There’s no Higab issues, no issues over school menus that contain pork, no arguments with teenagers about boyfriends or girlfriends.
Pro-Islam:
Islam doesn’t teach that everyone is going to hell but Muslims.Raising the Children Catholic means explaining that Dad…who prays five times a day, doesn’t drink, and fasts for an entire month is going to hell. While Mom drinks, goes to church once a week, and Fasts only a few days a year and is going to Heaven.
Islam is an easier faith to teach than Catholicism. Being married to a Progressive trims out a lot of the fat and fatwas of Islam. If it doesn’t say so in the Qu’ran, it doesn’t fly in our house. Catholicism has a LOT of training.
Islam requires that Muslims learn and read the scriptures about the other faiths. Which makes the choices our children must make as adults educated and clear. Again all this hangs on us doing it properly.
I can participate in their religious education as Muslims. He cannot participate in their religious edication as Catholics.
There is a Dual-faith option. Teaching both, with compromises in both. but our problem with that is it’s a buffet approach to religion…picking and chosing what we want from each. neither of us is real comfortable with that idea.
Thisis where we are now. We hope as time passes to be able to talk to other interfaith couples and hear why they made the decision they made with regard to their children.
It’s a question, a hard one and one that the answer is not going to come to us today or tomorrow. It’s going to be hard, and one of us is going to hurt. We know that. But we pray and hope that our love will overcome whatever hurt is caused.
Pro-Catholic:
Catholicism is Christianity, which is far more accepted here in the deep south than Islam is.
It is easier to find a good Catholic school and an Islamic school here.
His family is 13,000 miles away. Mine is about 200. Mine will have Christmas expectations at the very least, not to mention Easter.
There’s no Higab issues, no issues over school menus that contain pork, no arguments with teenagers about boyfriends or girlfriends.
Pro-Islam:
Islam doesn’t teach that everyone is going to hell but Muslims.Raising the Children Catholic means explaining that Dad…who prays five times a day, doesn’t drink, and fasts for an entire month is going to hell. While Mom drinks, goes to church once a week, and Fasts only a few days a year and is going to Heaven.
Islam is an easier faith to teach than Catholicism. Being married to a Progressive trims out a lot of the fat and fatwas of Islam. If it doesn’t say so in the Qu’ran, it doesn’t fly in our house. Catholicism has a LOT of training.
Islam requires that Muslims learn and read the scriptures about the other faiths. Which makes the choices our children must make as adults educated and clear. Again all this hangs on us doing it properly.
I can participate in their religious education as Muslims. He cannot participate in their religious edication as Catholics.
There is a Dual-faith option. Teaching both, with compromises in both. but our problem with that is it’s a buffet approach to religion…picking and chosing what we want from each. neither of us is real comfortable with that idea.
Thisis where we are now. We hope as time passes to be able to talk to other interfaith couples and hear why they made the decision they made with regard to their children.
It’s a question, a hard one and one that the answer is not going to come to us today or tomorrow. It’s going to be hard, and one of us is going to hurt. We know that. But we pray and hope that our love will overcome whatever hurt is caused.
A
ack
Guest
Your list omits something very important – when you married this man, you both promised that you would raise the children as Catholics.
I don’t think there’s a decision for you to make here anymore. When you were married in the Catholic Church, you already made this decision. I think some dioceses even require you to put it in writing.
I don’t think there’s a decision for you to make here anymore. When you were married in the Catholic Church, you already made this decision. I think some dioceses even require you to put it in writing.
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
Chances are - and forgive me for speaking so frankly - that it will not matter which religion your children grow up in, because they will most likely grow up believing in neither.
When the children learn they are Catholic because there was a Catholic school down the block and because the Catholic grandparents were closer, or if they become Muslim and learn they were Muslim because it made your job teaching the faith a bit easier, and not out of inner-conviction, they are going to believe religious faith is a secondary issue and that in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t really matter - we just choose which ever one makes our lives easier and get on with things.
This is why children who are born of such marriages end up rejecting religion altogether.
P
Phemie
Guest
F
Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
**
Thank you for the reply. I pray for your situation. Hopefully it ends up with one of you converting and giving future children a solid foundation in faith. Because while you recognize that this will cause hurt to either (or both) of you, you can’t forget that any children are going to be deeply affected too.
Would you, in hindsight, now recommend any other interfaith couple get married or not?
It seems to me that you are a shining example of how to people of different faiths can be great friends. Not so sure how the marriage thing will go but you can be a great example to other couples…
God bless!
Malia**
I
IrishJoe
Guest
you endevour to raise your children as best you can in the catholic faith. however children have free will like the rest of us and can refuse to belive or follow and can just decide to follow thier freind Khalid from schools’ religion if they want !
You cannot FORCE your kids to be catholic. you can however educate them and tell them why it is better.
The problems occur if you dont actually think its the best thing in the world to be honest.
And I think the point about daddy going to hell is quite relavant even tho officially the church says no one is in hell where else is he going to be according to church teaching.
S
Sweet_Jill
Guest
“Islam doesn’t teach that everyone is going to hell but Muslims.Raising the Children Catholic means explaining that Dad…who prays five times a day, doesn’t drink, and fasts for an entire month is going to hell. While Mom drinks, goes to church once a week, and Fasts only a few days a year and is going to Heaven.”
Neither does the Catholic Church teach that everyone but Catholics are going to Hell. If I am not mistaken the teaching is that one can only be saved by the Church, which is Truth. But that can come about through the prayers of the devout. Someone who is a good person and just happens to have grown up in another faith will not go to hell for that reason alone.
Also I wanted to say that your set-up is wonderful and I am so glad that it works well for you. Yes, when/if you have children there will be things to sort out, but it seems you have a very loving relationship and that you will be able come to a conclusion that satisfies both parties.
Again, giving statistics about how their children won’t be either faith… stats don’t make sense. Stats are a generalization. Their marriage is not in the majority, it is unique, and so stats about the general public may not and probably won’t apply. And once more-- if stats are the way to go then Catholic mothers should stop going to Church because most Catholic children will go to Church as adults if only the Father goes.
Neither does the Catholic Church teach that everyone but Catholics are going to Hell. If I am not mistaken the teaching is that one can only be saved by the Church, which is Truth. But that can come about through the prayers of the devout. Someone who is a good person and just happens to have grown up in another faith will not go to hell for that reason alone.
Also I wanted to say that your set-up is wonderful and I am so glad that it works well for you. Yes, when/if you have children there will be things to sort out, but it seems you have a very loving relationship and that you will be able come to a conclusion that satisfies both parties.
Again, giving statistics about how their children won’t be either faith… stats don’t make sense. Stats are a generalization. Their marriage is not in the majority, it is unique, and so stats about the general public may not and probably won’t apply. And once more-- if stats are the way to go then Catholic mothers should stop going to Church because most Catholic children will go to Church as adults if only the Father goes.
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
True, but if the stats say that if you are three times as likely to divorce if you have premarital sex than if you marry as a virgin, then if I want my future marriage to work, do you think I would be wiser to abstain from premarital sex or engage in it?
Your analogy is incorrect - most Catholic mothers should go to Church, even if chances are their children will not practice, because if they don’t go their kids will have even less of a chance. Likewise, Catholic women should marry Catholic men instead of non-Catholic men, because their kids will more likely grow up Catholic in the former situation than the latter.
I think we should allow statistics to (in general and for the most part) govern our choices - in fact we do it all the time.
A
ack
Guest
Right, but she was considering not raising her kids in the Catholic faith at all. Even though her kid can reject what she teaches, she still needs to do the best she can. She was considering teaching the kids Islam and not teaching them Catholicism.
I
IrishJoe
Guest
yes because you alone can read minds
- Status