Irish abuse report is 'shocking'

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redrosetea said:
Because he wanted to let me know what I said helped him

We don’t all deal with things the same way, so we must respect others privacy when they don’t wish to go further

It is a place to interact and to share but we mustn’t badger anyone…Our right to know ends at their right to privacy No one is on trial here…🙂
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There’s such a thing as Private Messaging here for private communication.

There’s also statements such as - I don’t wish to talk about it
 
Brickmaker said:
There’s such a thing as Private Messaging here for private communication.

There’s also statements such as - I don’t wish to talk about it
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Not everyone uses private messages, and I think he did make it clear he didn’t want things to go any further, so we must respect that
 
JosieElaine said:
Hello, AlexisLivia :
Your information helps to put things into perspective. Sexual abuse of children is such an emotional topic.
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Except the report was not focused on sexual abuse. As one poster put it,
But the Ryan Commission wasn’t investigating corporal punishment, even the excessive use of it, in regular schools.
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So all the numbers posted mix abuse and sexual abuse and do so in a vacuum of what the norm of corporal punishment was back in the forties, for example. This is poor methodolgy and cheapens the whole report.

Finally, I am suspicious of any report that does not show the correlation between convictions and behavior. I guess I am just used to living where a person is innocent until proven guilty, although this may not be reflected in Irish law. The media sure uses this point and then ignores it at whim.
 
JosieElaine said:
Dear benedictus 2 :
I am not attributing pedophilia to celibacy as in celibacy=pedophilia, I honestly did think it was one element in the equation, but not the only one. But I am beginning to change my mind, really.
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Praised be to God for that.
Cool off a bit, will you …
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One fuming B2 simmering down:cool: 🙂
 
pnewton said:
Except the report was not focused on sexual abuse. As one poster put it,

So all the numbers posted mix abuse and sexual abuse and do so in a vacuum of what the norm of corporal punishment was back in the forties, for example. This is poor methodolgy and cheapens the whole report.

Finally, I am suspicious of any report that does not show the correlation between convictions and behavior. I guess I am just used to living where a person is innocent until proven guilty, although this may not be reflected in Irish law. The media sure uses this point and then ignores it at whim.
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Look at “Michael O’Brien Speaks” on youtube.
 
I reviewed Micheal O Brien , as well as others on you tube. There is no denying the absolute trauma these individuals and their families experienced.

There is something to be said for following God’s call. The priests and the nun’s were NOT meant to have children, yet here they were, answering God’s call to be priests and and nuns, yet many of them were put in situations to be surrogate parents, forced to deny God’s calling…and they fell into temptation and many failed miserably. IF they were given the opportunity to live out their calling in a more contemplative way, away from children, perhaps they would not have fallen into sin so deeply.
 
cknick said:
I reviewed Micheal O Brien , as well as others on you tube. There is no denying the absolute trauma these individuals and their families experienced.

There is something to be said for following God’s call. The priests and the nun’s were NOT meant to have children, yet here they were, answering God’s call to be priests and and nuns, yet many of them were put in situations to be surrogate parents, forced to deny God’s calling…and they fell into temptation and many failed miserably. IF they were given the opportunity to live out their calling in a more contemplative way, away from children, perhaps they would not have fallen into sin so deeply.
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Yes. Maybe adults who rape handicapped orphans and beat a child mercilessly for more than an hour should probably be somewhere else.
 
pnewton said:
Uh… yes. Was this ever seriously a question?
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No question mark at the end. Just a ridiculous reply to a ridiculous statement.
I don’t see how those people would have any type of calling in the Church. Maybe in a prison but not a church.
 
pnewton said:
Except the report was not focused on sexual abuse. As one poster put it,

So all the numbers posted mix abuse and sexual abuse and do so in a vacuum of what the norm of corporal punishment was back in the forties, for example. This is poor methodolgy and cheapens the whole report.

Finally, I am suspicious of any report that does not show the correlation between convictions and behavior. I guess I am just used to living where a person is innocent until proven guilty, although this may not be reflected in Irish law. The media sure uses this point and then ignores it at whim.
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Since there were very few prosecutions, much less convictions, back then, you will be hard put to find that. I realize that you want to stick with innocent until proven guilty, but some of these accusations were reviewed *at the time, *and found to have merit, just not referred to the authorities.

The findings were summarized in volume 3, chapters 7 and 9, here.
 
ron77nyc said:
no question mark at the end. Just a ridiculous reply to a ridiculous statement.
I don’t see how those people would have any type of calling in the church. Maybe in a prison but not a church.
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my point was that being placed in an environment where these religious were with kids 24/7 was perhaps beyond the level of
of what the abusers could tolerate, which is why they chose religious life in the first place. When i think of religious life
the first responsibility i would think i would have wouldn’t necessarily be “surrogate parent.” many enter religious life to be more sequestered…not to be surrounded by children.

It doesn’t change that what they did was wrong, i’m saying it could have been a contributing factor.
 
ron77nyc said:
No question mark at the end. Just a ridiculous reply to a ridiculous statement.
I don’t see how those people would have any type of calling in the Church. Maybe in a prison but not a church.
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I think it is the age old story of people escaping from poverty to the Seminary/Convent. No vocation, just an escape. And then through resentment for being “forced” into this kind of life, abuse their “power” over those who are vulnerable.

I recall about twenty years ago a friend of mine was very angry with a teacher at a secular school who constantly made fun of her son and his name - Bruno. There is a comic character of a dog Bruno and she continually made fun of the boy. My friend was so angry she went to the school and made the teacher apologise to her son in front of the entire class!

The abuse stopped for a while but soon returned! Yes, that is abuse!

It is amazing how often one comes across sadistic people among the “humanistic” professions.

There was once an experiment on torture. Some actors were simulating an interrogation scene and in order to get the information they “tortured” their victim and the “victim” was groaning in pain. This scene was being observed by a group of peole who had to press a button to indicate the level of torture they felt the person deserved. (I am not sure exactly how the story goes) Anyway of the “observers” it was the nurses and teachers who “inflicted” the most pain on the “victim”. (nurses first, then teachers) The story went something like that.

I think that human nature can get out of hand. Many of us are capable of inflicting all kinds of torture on our fellow humans. If we are not in control we can get out of hand. There are men and women who inflict terrible mental torture on their spouses. Children at school have been known to bully to the point where a victim may commit suicide.

I believe that the abuse scandal is all part of this kind of human cruelty of which many among us are capable and it goes on all the time in many different ways.

The thing is that you expect this from a man of God. It is terrible - worse even when a person of the cloth indulges in such things.

Blessings
Cinette:)
 
Cinette I recall that study it was awful to watch it…I finally couldn’t stand any more and was going to turn the channel but it mercifully ended…you never know what lie below the surface on some people , and this man knew he was being observed

I also recall Geraldo Rivera when he was an investigative reporter snuck into to a state run institution in the 1970’s or 80’s…The things he found were shocking and it led to a huge investigation…I think this was in New York State, and no one could believe the brutal and filthy conditions these people were forced to live in…I can’t recall the name of the institution but it made the national news shows,It was horrendous
 
redrosetea said:
Cinette I recall that study it was awful to watch it…I finally couldn’t stand any more and was going to turn the channel but it mercifully ended…you never know what lie below the surface on some people , and this man knew he was being observed

I also recall Geraldo Rivera when he was an investigative reporter snuck into to a state run institution in the 1970’s or 80’s…The things he found were shocking and it led to a huge investigation…I think this was in New York State, and no one could believe the brutal and filthy conditions these people were forced to live in…I can’t recall the name of the institution but it made the national news shows,It was horrendous
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I wonder how this is all going to develop? I watched a show on EWTN the other day - it was an interview with Fr Scallon and Sister Briege McKenna. Their ministry is with priests all over the world. Apparently there are seminiries which are bursting with a new breed of priests. Some in the US, Ukraine (where there were terrible religious persecutions) Vietnam and others. We are going to soon enter into the Year of the Priest.

To be a priest in this wicked secular world is a challenge. The secular world and even people of other religions will judge you by the scandals which have ripped the Church.

We need to pray for our priest daily and support them as much as we can. They are treasures.

Blessings
Cinette:)🙂
 
Cinette said:
I wonder how this is all going to develop? I watched a show on EWTN the other day - it was an interview with Fr Scallon and Sister Briege McKenna. Their ministry is with priests all over the world. Apparently there are seminiries which are bursting with a new breed of priests. Some in the US, Ukraine (where there were terrible religious persecutions) Vietnam and others. We are going to soon enter into the Year of the Priest.

To be a priest in this wicked secular world is a challenge. The secular world and even people of other religions will judge you by the scandals which have ripped the Church.

We need to pray for our priest daily and support them as much as we can. They are treasures.

Blessings
Cinette:)🙂
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Fr Groeschel’s order is now working in the inner city in Dublin, I think…they work among the poorest of the poor and they are medicants…There order is flourishing and they wear the old grey habit of St Francis…For every abuse there are hundreds of people that do live what they preach and serve God heroically, by loving their neighbor as Christ commanded and St Francis taught

I have the new schools in my area and a new Mother house and these women are are amazing nuns…I have met a few and watched a video of them…They are highly educated and spiritually motivated…One sweet nun said I don’t want to own anything I want Christ to be my only treasure…I think the future will be better because of them…The Holy
Spirit is at work

Fr Groeschel always says in the darkest time God raises up His greatest saints
 
I know there are a lot of people angry over abuses they’ve read about. I’m going to post this series by Father Groeschel. This series is for everyone and not just Catholics. It’s good advice all around.

Get A Life In Christ:
Fr. Groeschel looks at what we can do to help the church in these times of trouble. He starts out with an introduction about the series and then moves on to talk about “what can I do?” He talks about notions of problems identifying parts, and hints on how to be effective helping the church. In identifying the problems in the church, he looks at problems that the church faced from the dark ages until almost 100 years ago. The problems in the church goes back a long time. He briefly talks about the heresies that the church has faced throughout history.
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ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/file_index.asp?SeriesId=32&pgnu=
 
Statements of the “official” church are, in my opinion, becoming increasingly irrelevant and foolish. We have some wonderful clerics and religious, thank God, however I am increasingly cynical regarding (my) church in which children and First Nations people were, and continue to be exploited and their identity demeaned and devalued. Please don’t explain over and over, or whine about “guilt” - fix the problems. I have been a Catholic for 64 years and I am no longer gullible - or trusting. I love the people in my church and will not leave it, but I don’t want to die as a member of a self-serving institution of which I am ashamed.
 
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