Irrefutable proof of the existence of God

[jochoa]

According to legend it took Mohammed forty years to win his first convert.
Itt23r has beaten that record by light years. He already has two people defending him: his brother-in-law dandingo, and his truck driving partner GreggAlvarez.

I believe you have missed itt23r’s intention. He is sharing a proof that Jesus Christ and His Holy Catholic Church is Absolute/Universal Truth. He is encouraging all to fully accept Jesus Christ and His Church to ensure we are on the winning team come Judgment.
Why do you want him to throw away something that valuable? Jesus Christ is Lord of All, and His Church is the Catholic Church, and many more people need to start accepting and serving Him through His Church, so we can start doing more of His Will on earth. Well in order to accept Jesus Christ and Catholicism as Truth, some people need mathematical, scientific, and historical proofs. This does that very well.
We can all recognize that this proof does not concern itself with the Love of Jesus Christ because His Love is not mathematical. But it will bring in more people to study, learn, and grow in His Love.

I assure you, I am deeply in love with Jesus Christ and Catholicism. There is nothing that can change that. And if anything, the expectation has now gone up. Knowing Jesus Christ and Catholicism is the Truth, we had better ensure each one of us is doing our absolute best to perfect our practice of Jesus Christ’s Greatest Commandments for living in His Kingdom.

Thoughts?

 

[GreggAlvarez]

Excellent point Gregg. Do you have any other questions for me? We covered a lot last time.

Indeed, we did. I did have other questions, but I forgot that. I would have to go back and flip my mental rolodex of questions that I had.

I got sidetracked for a few days with my “truck-driving” job (as empther wrylyput it), auditions on trumpet, preparing for other performances and teaching. Today was my last day until next semester. So, I should have plenty of time.

If not I have one for you. I originally posed it in a response to Empther (#201) that she didn’t respond to. In fact I hardly ever see her responding directly to anybody’s questions, but that is beside the point.

Empther won’t rationally respond to anything anyway. What she has been doing is the pinnacle of her intelligence. I may not know the Bible as well as I should, but I can win a debate of caustics. I do have a few grade A choice words…

Why should God have given us the Jewish Holidays if we were to just forget the meaning of all of them but Passover and Pentecost once the Christian Era began?

I don’t kow enough about the Jewish Holidays to make a reasonable response.

If no one wants to take this further with their own opinions I’ll just give my opinion on it tonight. If however this question piques some interest amongst you all I’ll wait until everyone seems to have gotten in.

Well, perhaps we should continue on with something else. But if you do opine, then I suppose we could use that to respond to.

Again, I’m not too familiar with that stuff, so I might just be passive unless I see something fishy, like irrational responses from people who should just go away.

Forgive and forget is a hard for me to do. I would rather the other person forgive and be forgotten.

Anyway, see you later.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

I believe you have missed itt23r’s intention. He is sharing a proof that Jesus Christ and His Holy Catholic Church is Absolute/Universal Truth. He is encouraging all to fully accept Jesus Christ and His Church to ensure we are on the winning team come Judgment.
Why do you want him to throw away something that valuable? Jesus Christ is Lord of All, and His Church is the Catholic Church, and many more people need to start accepting and serving Him through His Church, so we can start doing more of His Will on earth. Well in order to accept Jesus Christ and Catholicism as Truth, some people need mathematical, scientific, and historical proofs. This does that very well.
We can all recognize that this proof does not concern itself with the Love of Jesus Christ because His Love is not mathematical. But it will bring in more people to study, learn, and grow in His Love.

I assure you, I am deeply in love with Jesus Christ and Catholicism. There is nothing that can change that. And if anything, the expectation has now gone up. Knowing Jesus Christ and Catholicism is the Truth, we had better ensure each one of us is doing our absolute best to perfect our practice of Jesus Christ’s Greatest Commandments for living in His Kingdom.

Thoughts?

Don’t listen to any of empther’s response. She already disagrees with your comment and she hasn’t even read it.

While I really dislike empther, the reason why she is adamantly against it is because of the fact that itt23r places it on the same level as the Gospels (but to be sure, not AS as Gospel). That’s why I’m skeptical also, but I have a genuine interest in it. Perhaps, not as much as you since you already bought it…

But, the fact that itt23r’s placing it with the Gospels doesn’t mean that it IS there. That just means that’s where HE places it. Something can be with the nihil obstat and impratur without being a Gospel. And conversely, the book could be just dead wrong about everything. So, who really knows except for the people that actually read it? No empther, nobody cares about what you think and they would rather you not post, unless you have something worth everybody’s time (which statistically speaking, probably won’t happen).

Anyway, your post was well-written.

 

[dandingo]

Finally, some rational posts in this thread. Honestly, I don’t know why Empther said that I’m the OP’s ‘brother-in-law’. I have been defending the OP, not the book. I haven’t read the book, nor has anyone else, except Jochoa, who has mostly positive things to say about it. But the OP still deserves respect, whether the book is 100% right or wrong.

Most of the people on here are mature Catholics who are comfortable enough to discern heresy, falsities and anything that may go against Christ and the Church on their own. All of this controversy actually makes me want to read it even more now.

 

[Thaelros]

Why should God have given us the Jewish Holidays if we were to just forget the meaning of all of them but Passover and Pentecost once the Christian Era began?

We know that the Church is the “New Israel,” which serves the purpose of allowing Gentiles into God’s covenant. Hypothetically speaking, the Jewish Holidays could still have meaning because, frankly, the Church descended straight from Old Testament Judaism. I thought I would just throw that out there.

 

[itt23r]

To GreggAlvarez

And to be clear again Gregg. I don’t place my book on the same level as the 4 canonized Gospels. I place Creation itself on that same level. My book is merely about that Gospel called Creation.

Looking forward to discussing your other concerns as you present them.

 

[itt23r]

To Dandingo

Good to hear back from you. And how’s my sister doing? You still treating her ok?

 

[itt23r]

To Thaelros

We know that the Church is the “New Israel,” which serves the purpose of allowing Gentiles into God’s covenant. Hypothetically speaking, the Jewish Holidays could still have meaning because, frankly, the Church descended straight from Old Testament Judaism. I thought I would just throw that out there.

Sure they still have meaning but why do we only celebrate Passover and Pentecost (through our undestanding of their Christian significance) and ignore the rest?

 

[GreggAlvarez]

Finally, some rational posts in this thread. Honestly, I don’t know why Empther said that I’m the OP’s ‘brother-in-law’. I have been defending the OP, not the book. I haven’t read the book, nor has anyone else, except Jochoa, who has mostly positive things to say about it. But the OP still deserves respect, whether the book is 100% right or wrong.

Remember, I’m your truck-driving partner also.

In addition to what you’re saying, disagreeing with empther doesn’t mean agreeing with the OP.

Most of the people on here are mature Catholics who are comfortable enough to discern heresy, falsities and anything that may go against Christ and the Church on their own. All of this controversy actually makes me want to read it even more now.

All true!

 

[GreggAlvarez]

To GreggAlvarez

And to be clear again Gregg. I don’t place my book on the same level as the 4 canonized Gospels. I place Creation itself on that same level. My book is merely about that Gospel called Creation.

Hmmm… Perhaps you should clarify that on this thread because you left room for the misunderstanding that your book WAS that very Gospel of Creation. I imagine I wasn’t the only one. Then again, maybe I was.

Looking forward to discussing your other concerns as you present them.

Indeed, the above is another concern though because you came in here saying that there was a “5th Gospel” and you seemed to be claiming that your book IS the 5th Gospel.

Good to hear back from you. And how’s my sister doing? You still treating her ok?

Hahaha

 

[dandingo]

To Dandingo

Good to hear back from you. And how’s my sister doing? You still treating her ok?

hahaha, hilarious!

 

[itt23r]

To GreggAlvarez

Hmmm… Perhaps you should clarify that on this thread because you left room for the misunderstanding that your book WAS that very Gospel of Creation. I imagine I wasn’t the only one. Then again, maybe I was.

Indeed, the above is another concern though because you came in here saying that there was a “5th Gospel” and you seemed to be claiming that your book IS the 5th Gospel.

Actually there is one place on the website that pertains to that which really does need fixing. And it is another of those places that my web designer hasn’t gotten around to yet. On this thread it has been discussed many times so I am aware of the controversy. But look at it this way.

And as a truck driver you might appreciate this analogy, If I’d written a book about say the '57 Chevy and called it simply “The '57 Chevy”, no one would confuse it with a real '57 Chevy, they’d just think it is book about that car. Same with my book. However yes yes I get it Gospels are also books, hence the confusion. And I was aware of the potential for confusion before I finished the book, so it went by many different names during the manuscript phase, none of them really standing out as being very all inclusive. All of them having their own flaws. and in the end I settled back into “The Gospel of Creation.” It just seemed to be the title that covered everything I’d written the best. Just as in that car analogy, what better name could there be for a book about a '57 Chevy than “The '57 Chevy” ?

Now I know as you and others have pointed out I need to clarify this better on the website and I will. But I’m not going to change the book’s name. And if the book becomes well known yuor concerns will certainly come up many more times giving me many more opportunities to clarify.

 

[itt23r]

So it is 9:00 PM and since nobody seemed all that interested in the question I posed about the Jewish holidays I will keep my opinion on the matter to myself for now unless someone specifically asks. The question is also addressed in the book however and i think the book provides a rather nice solution…

 

[lnslucky]

Has anyone actually seen God’s spirit? If so, which God was it? I don’t think there is any irrefutable proof until you’re dead. When you are dead, you will know.

 

[itt23r]

To Inslucky

Has anyone actually seen God’s spirit? If so, which God was it? I don’t think there is any irrefutable proof until you’re dead. When you are dead, you will know.

I believe you may be right on that one. Otherwise who would need Faith?

But that doesn’t mean there can’t be empirical evidence that is so strong and so indicative of the God portrayed in Judeo-Christian tradition that it leads one to accepting that that same God’s exists. And in so accepting you receive from God the Faith needed to know without doubt that He does exists. It’s not irrefutable therefore on a universal basis, but I think it can be to the individual.

 

[lnslucky]

To Inslucky

I believe you may be right on that one. Otherwise who would need Faith?

But that doesn’t mean there can’t be empirical evidence that is so strong and so indicative of the God portrayed in Judeo-Christian tradition that it leads one to accepting that that same God’s exists. And in so accepting you receive from God the Faith needed to know without doubt that He does exists. It’s not irrefutable therefore on a universal basis, but I think it can be to the individual.

Well if you’re seeing things like people or spirits its more than likely a hallucination (or the truth), but how do we distinguish either when we’re dealing with paranormal vs science?

The same goes for hearing voices in your head. Maybe it is God, or maybe once again, you are imagining it. how do we determine which one it is?

 

[itt23r]

How odd;

A poster named Inslucky left a comment and I responded to it. Neither post contained anything that would be considered objectionable. But now both posts have disappeared. Any opinions as to how this may have happened?

 

[Orangebookbag]

it23r, I ordered the booklet and look forward to reading it.
A few preliminary questions:

Are you continuing your research on the subject of the 2/3 rule?

Are you considering any means of promoting your work besides the catholic answers forum?

Have you read any other similar books that inspired you to pursue God through mathematical inquiry? You may be interested in Georg Cantor, Pascal, and Kurt Gödel to name a few.

And lastly, what was the atheist forum you posted on a few months ago? I would love to see the reaction from the skeptical community as well.

Thanks

 

[AbsolutionBliss]

it23r, I ordered the booklet and look forward to reading it.
A few preliminary questions:

Are you continuing your research on the subject of the 2/3 rule?

Are you considering any means of promoting your work besides the catholic answers forum?

Have you read any other similar books that inspired you to pursue God through mathematical inquiry? You may be interested in Georg Cantor, Pascal, and Kurt Gödel to name a few.

And lastly, what was the atheist forum you posted on a few months ago? I would love to see the reaction from the skeptical community as well.

Thanks

I would also love to know about all these questions and I am eternally grateful for your time in creating this book to show the world of God’s greatness. I hope you know how inspiring your conversion story is as well, it is wonderful that you have almost dedicated your life to writings of truth about our loving God!

God bless and Merry Christmas! :’)

 

[AbsolutionBliss]

Oh and also, I asked this before but no one replied, can you help me?

There are many people at my school who are non-christians (even though it is a catholic school) who say my religion is all lies. Someone at my school was recently arguing to me about it & said:
“You claim to be christian yet has clearly not read the bible in its entirety.
God telling his people how to purchase slaves (including children): Lev 25: 44
God telling people how to treat their slaves: Ex 21: 2
God telling people its okay to beat your slaves, so long as they dn’t die: Ex 21: 20
God telling slaves to obey their masters as they would Christ: Eph 6: 5”

I am in my ‘young’ teen years, getting ready for confirmation, and I have not yet read the whole bible. So, what is leviticus? I know these quotes are real but that doesn’t make sense… God would never say these things! I am so confused, if only someone here could help me, I would be so grateful! Thank you and God bless