Is Adventism Christian

[CMatt25]

As to your comment that they dont wish to argue the same things all the time? I find this laughable. They have no problem going on other threads that have nothing to do with this, and sling verses left and right.

If you know any that are scholars, theologians, pastors, plz invite them.

Benidict, well I have personal contact with only a handful of Adventist friends. None of which I think are likely to want to take the time to come here. Laugh all you want. But they might get tired of defending to people how their faith is Christian. They might present explanations but if it’s not the manner in which the Catholic Church interprets, is it really going to change your opinion?

When I presented the case of my friend to you where in their fundamentals it specifically says they believe in one God, a unity of 3, with Scripture references, it was shot down here. One poster even said they “SAY” that but don’t believe it. And they were labeled polytheists. So my friend concluded some here only want to bash (her word not mine) SDAs. And I’ve only corresponded one time with a SDA pastor who pastors 2 churches miles apart in distance, one of which operates a school, so don’t really know him enough to invite him and I assume he doesn’t really have the time to devote to here either.

I do hope more come to help you out though. God bless. Peace.

 

[Karollee]

“the concern is if their Trinitarian teaching is the same as traditional Christian teaching. That is, do they see the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three Persons in One God as expressed in the Nicene Creed. And what is the nature of Christ? Is he fully human and fully divine? Is He true God and True Man?”

Seventh-day Adventists are christians and believe in the trinity as described in this paragraph. They do not think that Jesus is Michael the arch angel. The catholic church recognizes baptism in the Seventh-day Adventist church as a valid trinitarian baptism.

 

[benidict]

Benidict, well I have personal contact with only a handful of Adventist friends. None of which I think are likely to want to take the time to come here. Laugh all you want. But they might get tired of defending to people how their faith is Christian. They might present explanations but if it’s not the manner in which the Catholic Church interprets, is it really going to change your opinion?

When I presented the case of my friend to you where in their fundamentals it specifically says they believe in one God, a unity of 3, with Scripture references, it was shot down here. One poster even said they “SAY” that but don’t believe it. And they were labeled polytheists. So my friend concluded some here only want to bash (her word not mine) SDAs. And I’ve only corresponded one time with a SDA pastor who pastors 2 churches miles apart in distance, one of which operates a school, so don’t really know him enough to invite him and I assume he doesn’t really have the time to devote to here either.

I do hope more come to help you out though. God bless. Peace.

As some can tell you here, Matt. This is not to bash the Adventist. We have had Adventist on this forum, state things that are against the Churches Doctrines of the Trinity. They wanted to debate this on a thread that was not designed for it. I have given them an open forum, where we can discuss this very important doctrine. They have had plenty of time to come here and explain what they believe, and they refuse to do so. Their silence speaks volumes to me. This Thread is very much for people who read, but never post. People who may be looking at Adventism as a viable alternative to Catholicism, and Adventist, who may never have taken a close look at their organizations teachings. Topics like this have a farther reaching effect than you or I would care to admit. Not ONE Adventist has come on here to state that what has been presented is incorrect. That in itself speaks volumes. I sometimes have discussions with Mormons, and if I state something that is not in keeping with their teachings, but just written by Mormon bashers, they let me know it is incorrect, and why. Since this has not been the case here, then I have to assume that the materiel I have found as to their belief, (very little of which I wrote here.)Is correct, and that Adventism teaches a Different doctrine of the Trinity. With no Adventist (name removed by moderator)ut, I really dont see any need to continue. I will be watching though to see if any Adventist wish to discuss this Doctrine, Or the thread is welcome to fade gracefully into the history of CAF. God bless all who have posted here, and thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Peace

 

[benidict]

“the concern is if their Trinitarian teaching is the same as traditional Christian teaching. That is, do they see the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three Persons in One God as expressed in the Nicene Creed. And what is the nature of Christ? Is he fully human and fully divine? Is He true God and True Man?”

Seventh-day Adventists are christians and believe in the trinity as described in this paragraph. They do not think that Jesus is Michael the arch angel. The catholic church recognizes baptism in the Seventh-day Adventist church as a valid trinitarian baptism.

sdanet.org/atissue/trinity/michael.htm
Hi Karollee. welcome to the forums. Apparently they do teach that Jesus and Michael are the same. And this is admitted by their own authors. Peace

 

[Marsha_Adams]

They do not think that Jesus is Michael the arch angel.

What do you base this statement on?

 

[Karollee]

I was born and raised an Adventist, went to Adventist primary schools and secondary schools. I was taught that Jesus, God the father and the holy spirit are one God. It was very hard to understand how that worked, nevertheless, that was the teaching. (If we were taught that God was three separate persons, it would not be hard to understand). I am told my baptism is considered valid by the catholic church because of the Adventist understanding of the trinity. It’s understandable that writers who are catholic would question the adventist doctorine, as they should. It’s not the same as the catholic church. But on the question of the trinity, you are able turn to this website for answers. catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp Here you will find a write-up regarding Adventists and the trinity. And to address the original question–Yes. Adventists are Christians who believe in and love Jesus.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

I was born and raised an Adventist, went to Adventist primary schools and secondary schools. I was taught that Jesus, God the father and the holy spirit are one God. It was very hard to understand how that worked, nevertheless, that was the teaching. (If we were taught that God was three separate persons, it would not be hard to understand). I am told my baptism is considered valid by the catholic church because of the Adventist understanding of the trinity. It’s understandable that writers who are catholic would question the adventist doctorine, as they should. It’s not the same as the catholic church. But on the question of the trinity, you are able turn to this website for answers. catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp Here you will find a write-up regarding Adventists and the trinity. And to address the original question–Yes. Adventists are Christians who believe in and love Jesus.

I was only asking about your comment that SDAs do not believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.

I would refer you to the 1957 edition of Questions on Doctrine which discusses the SDA doctrine on Christ being Michael, the Archangel. The link to the on-line version is:

sdanet.org/atissue/books/qod/index.htm

It should be remembered that Questions on Doctrine was published to make SDAism acceptable to evangelical Christianity. It is as notable for what it does not address as for what it does.

I was born and raised SDA. I attended Broadview Academy, and Andrews University. I minored in religion, taking 54 credits which was the equivalent of a major. When I became Catholic I was conditionally baptized because they weren’t absolutely sure that the SDA baptism was valid.

 

[LiftHimUp]

Here is a link about what SDA’s believe concerning the Trinity.

secretsunsealed.org/Home/VideooftheMonth.aspx

His name is Stephen Bohr. He is a SDA pastor and he covers nearly everything that the Adventist church believes about the Godhead. I’m posting this video to end the confusion and I am not going to argue (go back and forth). He goes in depth and uses nothing but scripture. Please watch the entire video.

Thanks

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Just out of curiousity, LiftHimUp, why do you show your religion as “Christian” instead of SDA? It doesn’t matter, you can show your religion any way you want. I was just curious.

 

[benidict]

Here is a link about what SDA’s believe concerning the Trinity.

secretsunsealed.org/Home/VideooftheMonth.aspx

His name is Stephen Bohr. He is a SDA pastor and he covers nearly everything that the Adventist church believes about the Godhead. I’m posting this video to end the confusion and I am not going to argue (go back and forth). He goes in depth and uses nothing but scripture. Please watch the entire video.

Thanks

I am very familar with secretsunsealed. Im subscibed to their news letter. I asked them some very clear concise questions, as to to their take on some passages in Revelation. they said they would have a pastor get back to me. Ive been waiting for apx 8 months now, for his response. It is not hard for me to see where they take much of their scripture out of context to come up with their views. I used to do the same thing without knowing it, as a Baptist. I could “prove” the premilliniallist dispensationalist view, OSAS, Believer baptism only, etc. etc. etc. Just by using my bible. I got to the point, that I could prove the Amill, and post mill views also…This is why I thank God for a governing authority, to keep me from error. Its too easy to stray interpreting the bible oneself.
Also, one quick question my friend. And I do value your (name removed by moderator)ut. Would you say, given the other links provided, that it may be a fair assesment, that there is indeed not a consensus on the issue of the Trinity? but that different teachers within Adventism are teaching different things about this doctrine? Peace

 

[benidict]

I was born and raised an Adventist, went to Adventist primary schools and secondary schools. I was taught that Jesus, God the father and the holy spirit are one God. It was very hard to understand how that worked, nevertheless, that was the teaching. (If we were taught that God was three separate persons, it would not be hard to understand). I am told my baptism is considered valid by the catholic church because of the Adventist understanding of the trinity. It’s understandable that writers who are catholic would question the adventist doctorine, as they should. It’s not the same as the catholic church. But on the question of the trinity, you are able turn to this website for answers. catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp Here you will find a write-up regarding Adventists and the trinity. And to address the original question–Yes. Adventists are Christians who believe in and love Jesus.

Hi Karollee. Please do not take this the wrong way. And you do not have to answer this. But If you believe that Adventist are Christians, who believe in and Love Jesus, then Why did you feel the need to convert to Catholicism? Was there a point of doctrine you have a problem with in Adventism? I know for me, I would never have converted to Catholicism without a direct action of the Holy Spirit. Is this the Case for you? I rejoice at your conversion. I simply have to wonder why you would feel the need, if Adventism is complete? I dont know if Im asking the question correctly. maybe someone can help me out. If this is too personal, then please disreguard, or you can p.m. me if you so choose. Peace and prayers for you and yours.

 

[LiftHimUp]

Just out of curiousity, LiftHimUp, why do you show your religion as “Christian” instead of SDA? It doesn’t matter, you can show your religion any way you want. I was just curious.

I am a Christian. If I was a SDA I would put Christian.

 

[benidict]

I am a Christian. If I was a SDA I would put Christian.

This does lead to a very good point my friend. Why do Adventist hide their affiliation when holding seminars and such? I dont know if you would have the answer to this, we probably would have to hear from a Practicing Adventist. Peacer

 

[Esdra]

This does lead to a very good point my friend. Why do Adventist hide their affiliation when holding seminars and such? I dont know if you would have the answer to this, we probably would have to hear from a Practicing Adventist. Peacer

Mhm, actually, I also also have as affiliation Christian and not Baptist…
I think it’s not about hiding ones Affiliation…
Adventists AND Baptists, I guess, agree on the fact, that they are “plain Christians” without attributes.

(But, okay, this is because I am not really sure if my “Evangelial Free Church” actually IS a Baptist Church.) - But most of you maybe know that.

 

[benidict]

Mhm, actually, I also also have as affiliation Christian and not Baptist…
I think it’s not about hiding ones Affiliation…
Adventists AND Baptists, I guess, agree on the fact, that they are “plain Christians” without attributes.

(But, okay, this is because I am not really sure if my “Evangelial Free Church” actually IS a Baptist Church.) - But most of you maybe know that.

I can see your point my friend. but, when asked you answered. The difference is, if you were to hold a conference on say…Prophecy. I dont believe you would hide your affiliation. I believe your church would be honest, and state exactly who they are. If you are going to join with a movement, why be ashamed of its name? The Mennonites surely are not. The Lutherans, the Latter Day Saints etc. never hide who they are. You always know when its a Latter Day Saint commercial. Its kinda like when I was driving through Amarillo Texas one evening. One guy was holding up a sign that read “Need money for food!” The other gentleman was holding a sign that said " Why hide it? I need money for BEER!" Now both were going to spend it on booze. But who do you think I found more honest? Hmmmm? I dont like deception. I believe that deception is of the Devil, and a Satanic Tool. Peace

 

[LiftHimUp]

This does lead to a very good point my friend. Why do Adventist hide their affiliation when holding seminars and such? I dont know if you would have the answer to this, we probably would have to hear from a Practicing Adventist. Peacer

If SDA’s are hiding this information then you should ask those individuals why and not group everyone together. Not all SDA’s do this. I personally know people who have held seminars and are currently holding seminars. Some do not put SDA on the poster, while others do. One of them is having their seminar in the SDA church building, so of course there is nothing to hide. If someone ask about their denomination, they will tell you. When one goes to a seminar it shouldn’t be about a denomination, it should be about the word of God.

I know a woman who was catholic and went to a SDA prophecy seminar. She believed everything that was discussed in the seminar until she found out that it was SDA doctrine. She went to talk about it to her catholic friends and showed them SDA teachings from the bible. They started criticizing her and all she wanted to do was share what she had learned. She realized that her friends were turning on her so she continued to go to the seminars. She then went to the priest at her church who also tried to convince her to stop going. So the lady, the SDA pastor, and her church leader had a meeting because she knew what SDA’s believed but could not use scripture to support it. The first thing her church leader said was that SDA’s worship E.G. White and the lady stopped him and said I know nothing about E.G. White and that only scripture was used in the seminar. She later started attending bible studies and learned of E.G. White. She agreed that Mrs. White’s teachings go hand in hand with the bible. To this day, she along with many others from that seminar believes that SDA’s are Christians. So in my opinion along with many others is that SDA=Christian.

 

[benidict]

If SDA’s are hiding this information then you should ask those individuals why and not group everyone together. Not all SDA’s do this. I personally know people who have held seminars and are currently holding seminars. Some do not put SDA on the poster, while others do. One of them is having their seminar in the SDA church building, so of course there is nothing to hide. If someone ask about their denomination, they will tell you. When one goes to a seminar it shouldn’t be about a denomination, it should be about the word of God.

I know a woman who was catholic and went to a SDA prophecy seminar. She believed everything that was discussed in the seminar until she found out that it was SDA doctrine. She went to talk about it to her catholic friends and showed them SDA teachings from the bible. They started criticizing her and all she wanted to do was share what she had learned. She realized that her friends were turning on her so she continued to go to the seminars. She then went to the priest at her church who also tried to convince her to stop going. So the lady, the SDA pastor, and her church leader had a meeting because she knew what SDA’s believed but could not use scripture to support it. The first thing her church leader said was that SDA’s worship E.G. White and the lady stopped him and said I know nothing about E.G. White and that only scripture was used in the seminar. She later started attending bible studies and learned of E.G. White. She agreed that Mrs. White’s teachings go hand in hand with the bible. To this day, she along with many others from that seminar believes that SDA’s are Christians. So in my opinion along with many others is that SDA=Christian.

Hello my dear friend. I would agree with you that the Adventist only use scripture at their seminars. But…(there is always the proverbial but.) The Adventist use scripture in LIGHT of E.G. Whites teachings. There whole take on prophecy is from her vantage point. not independent study.I would have taken a different tact with the lady in question as to her studies with the Adventist. To me, it was handled the wrong way. I will not be critical of the Adventist prophetic views, but I certainly will challenge them. Just as I will and have Challenged the fundamentalist dispensationalist on their pre mil views. No E.G. White= No Adventist movement. Different view of the Trinity from what has been taught for 2000 years= not Christian doctrine. I find more hints of Arianism and Nestorianism in Adventist views, than I do Christian. Especially in their Trinitarian view, and Christology. Peace

 

[Esdra]

Hello my dear friend. I would agree with you that the Adventist only use scripture at their seminars. But…(there is always the proverbial but.) The Adventist use scripture in LIGHT of E.G. Whites teachings. There whole take on prophecy is from her vantage point. not independent study.I would have taken a different tact with the lady in question as to her studies with the Adventist. To me, it was handled the wrong way. I will not be critical of the Adventist prophetic views, but I certainly will challenge them. Just as I will and have Challenged the fundamentalist dispensationalist on their pre mil views. No E.G. White= No Adventist movement. Different view of the Trinity from what has been taught for 2000 years= not Christian doctrine. I find more hints of Arianism and Nestorianism in Adventist views, than I do Christian. Especially in their Trinitarian view, and Christology. Peace

I’ve read a little bit in some E. G. White’s books. - And there I found the thoughts which were used for a sermon I watched on the Hope Channel (Adventist TV-station) concerning that the Catholic Church is the Great Beast (and the US the other one). [scripture used: Revelation 17:1-18; E.G. White “The Great Controversary”, page 338]
So, as E. G. White has used scriptures to “prove she’s right”, so do Adventist preachers.
They don’t need to use E. G. White’s Books themselves, because she “packs everything up with scripture”. (Actually, I then realized the link to the Catholic Church herself… "Book(s) covered with scripture? Used for teaching? - Reminds me actually of the CCC! - Just a thought. Frankly, in this case Adventists are closer to LDS who also have their own “scriptures”. - But the emphasis is different. LDS Scriptures are often regarded higher than the Bible. “The BoM is the most correct book on earth”, Joseph Smith Jr. wrote.)
E. G. White’s books are not used when teaching Adventism, but her interpretation of the Bible.

 

[Esdra]

I can see your point my friend. but, when asked you answered. The difference is, if you were to hold a conference on say…Prophecy. I dont believe you would hide your affiliation. I believe your church would be honest, and state exactly who they are. If you are going to join with a movement, why be ashamed of its name? The Mennonites surely are not. The Lutherans, the Latter Day Saints etc. never hide who they are. You always know when its a Latter Day Saint commercial. Its kinda like when I was driving through Amarillo Texas one evening. One guy was holding up a sign that read “Need money for food!” The other gentleman was holding a sign that said " Why hide it? I need money for BEER!" Now both were going to spend it on booze. But who do you think I found more honest? Hmmmm? I dont like deception. I believe that deception is of the Devil, and a Satanic Tool. Peace

Mhm, and a Seveneth-Day-Adventist wouldn’t say, if you’d ask him?
We once had a Seventh-Day-Adventist minister (a she) in our house. Mom talked for a while to her. Finally she asked her which affiliation she would have, and she answered, “Adventist”.

But, yes you are right, if we would make a seminar or so, it would definitly on the flyer say somewhere “Evangelikale Freikirche Imst”.
But I can see LiftHimUp’s point of view as well, it’s not about the denomination but about Jesus.
As our pastor once said, it’s not so important to which denomination you are affiliated with, as long as you have accepted Jesus as your saviour.
This is also the reason why Pentecostals, Baptists and the “Free Evangelical Churches” often worship together. We even had once a Mennonite minister as a preacher in our church. (And 3 weeks ago a Messianic Jew.)
Nevertheless, when I had asked him about the SDA, he answered, “Keep away from them, they’re a cult and no ‘brothers and sisters in Christ’.”

 

[GaryTaylor]

If its not about denomination but Jesus, than why arn’t we all Catholics?