Is Avoiding/Refusing Marital Relations a Sin?

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Good to hear the problems have abated.

The tone of this thread does seem to indicate a double standard.

Why is it that if a woman isn’t attracted to her hubby anymore it’s just a normal part of being an exhausted housewife, or even his fault because he doesn’t do enough foreplay?
5 beers isn’t a lot in Wisconsin, not for a guy, and not for an occasion. 5 beers every night after work may be a bit much. But 5 beers with a buddy, or spaced over a Sat. afternoon? Besides, there’s beer, and there’s American “beer”. 5 beers at 3% would be the equivalent of just 3 5% beers.
 
Yah, hey, but it’s Wisconsin beer, where the alcohol gets abosrbed by cheese and kringle.

😉

Just kidding around…All Wisconsinites are free to make one Illinois comment apiece.
 
Black Jaque:
Good to hear the problems have abated.

The tone of this thread does seem to indicate a double standard.

Why is it that if a woman isn’t attracted to her hubby anymore it’s just a normal part of being an exhausted housewife, or even his fault because he doesn’t do enough foreplay?
5 beers isn’t a lot in Wisconsin, not for a guy, and not for an occasion. 5 beers every night after work may be a bit much. But 5 beers with a buddy, or spaced over a Sat. afternoon? Besides, there’s beer, and there’s American “beer”. 5 beers at 3% would be the equivalent of just 3 5% beers.
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Hi Black Jaque,

You know, I never even thought about it, until you mentioned it, but there really is a double standard applied here. You’re right, if the sexes of my friends were reversed, the tone of this thread would probably be just as you describe.

You are right about the 3% beers, I’m a good sized guy and five 3% beers over an extended evening is no big deal. Now, it would be different if it were my home brew.http://forums.catholic-questions.or...atholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

Thanks for checkin’ my six, bud. I appreciate that.
 
Hey Cargo! You brew your own eh? There’s a place about 20 miles north of me that has a little microbrewery (although for the size of the town it’s probably one of the towns biggest businesses). They offer a stout that’s got 8%! :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
Just kidding around…All Wisconsinites are free to make one Illinois comment apiece.
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Now why would we make any nasty comments about our Friendly Illinois Brethren???:whistle:
 
I’m glad things have worked out, but it sounds to me like what this couple really needs is just some good old fashioned romance. Maybe she should just turn down the lights (imagination can do a lot for a person’s figure!), light some flickering candles, turn on some inspiring music (not religiously-inspiring, the other kind), and just let things happen, instead of asking for it. She may want to try waking him up in the middle of the night with a carress, when he’s more likely to act rather than think. There are so many ways to get a man’s attention. Instead of asking for sex, she could try seducing him. 😉
 
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MamaGeek:
I’m glad things have worked out, but it sounds to me like what this couple really needs is just some good old fashioned romance. Maybe she should just turn down the lights (imagination can do a lot for a person’s figure!), light some flickering candles, turn on some inspiring music (not religiously-inspiring, the other kind), and just let things happen, instead of asking for it. She may want to try waking him up in the middle of the night with a carress, when he’s more likely to act rather than think. There are so many ways to get a man’s attention. Instead of asking for sex, she could try seducing him. 😉
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Hey MamaGeek,

I believe you’re exactly right. My friend had a good, long talk with Father, and he really let him have it. Father has been a kind of mediator for them, and it’s truly amazing what those Priests know about marriage. His report of what Father said has even given me something to think about.

In a nutshell, Father explained that for ANY spouse to avoid/refuse the marital act IS indeed, very serious, and the failure for one to do the best they can, is a recipie for disaster, one that can leave the other to loniliness, doubting their own self-worth and feeling placed in a constant ‘occasion of sin’. Father said that this was not uncommon in marriage, and typically in younger couples, it is the female who is guilty of this, but as a part of normal aging, the situation reverses, where the male’s needs wane and the female’s increase. Imagine that, I understand the waning of the husband’s desire in aging, but the wife’s INCREASING? Could that be true?
Father said, just as the wife is encouraged to cheerfully offer her ‘sacrifice’ to the husband, even when she is ‘not in the mood’ etc., so is the husband. He was reminded that even the ‘spot and wrinkle’ is no excuse for either one to fail to offer thier sacrifice to the other.

His pennance was to of course, pray about it, to recall all the reasons why he married her in the first place, to think of all she means to him today, and to, for lack of a better way to put it, ‘get busy’. Father seemed to zero-in on a habit of self-gratification as one of the primary reasons for his lack of desire for her. Father said that is one of the key reasons a husband finds himself lacking a proper desire for his wife, and if he could do his best to ‘knock it off’, he would soon rediscover a powerful physical attraction for her.

That advise rang true with me. as well. Perhaps my friend could even teach me a thing or two. Maybe I’m not as ‘busy’ as I should be, either. It’s funny how the one asking for advise ends up actually giving advise.
 
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cargopilot:
the situation reverses, where the male’s needs wane and the female’s increase. Imagine that, I understand the waning of the husband’s desire in aging, but the wife’s INCREASING? Could that be true?
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A man’s sex drive peaks from age 17-21, though it takes years to um, “roll off that peak,” so to speak. A woman’s drive peaks in her late 40s. You’ve never heard this before?
 
A man’s sex drive peaks from age 17-21, though it takes years to um, “roll off that peak,” so to speak. A woman’s drive peaks in her late 40s. You’ve never heard this before?
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Nope never heard it before. Not sure I believe it either.
 
Nope never heard it before. Not sure I believe it either.

It is definately true! I am 35, my husband is 40. In our case, we are more “balanced” as far as desire goes unlike the previous couple… Part of the reason in my opinion is much experience is gained with age if you know what I mean. It also makes a big difference as to whether a couple uses ABC or not (let’s face it the majority do), unfortunately a lot of ABC methods actually cause lack of desire, which is probably why it works so well! Also, I believe God blesses couples who remain faithful to Him. So there is much to look forward to eh?
 
Gosh–what a good question! I just know when I feel hurt,when things are not right in my marriage, it is very hard to have relations. I know I just need to tackle the problems first. And I always tell my hubby this. Matter of fact last night, I told him, we talked about it, and things were so much better.:o
 
I think the problem is that both husband and wife have cease to focus on pleasing Christ and want to please themselves first.

If he has gotten selfish and uncaring, and she has gotten fat and ugly then neither of them are really Loving are they? Unfortunately, a lot of men (like me) don’t understand women and what turns them off. Vice versa, a lot of women I know just don’t understand what obesity does for a guy. Hmmm, imagine your husband not taking a shower for several weeks and refuses to work or bring home a check. “Come on honey, what’s wrong? Why don’t you want to make love to me?”

I knew a guy that was married and divorced 3 times. He said that if he had learned to dance when he was young then he’d have only been married once. Most couples who dance together stay together. It’s a statistical fact. Marriage bonding does that.

Because the couple in question are both resisting each other, they’ll have to work a little harder to get where they should be. But I think that both of them will find that bonding experience that replaces their other friends (beer drinking a gossiping or whatever) and puts them back with each other. Maybe they can buy his and her treadmills and walk together at a fast pace before they learn to cut a rug. Maybe the dude ought to lead by example since leadership, from what I hear, is what gals like from a man.

So, I’m going to take a shower…I stink…but I have a job!👍
 
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Siena:
Cargo-

One last thing, if you would please tell your friend. This is a very sensetive subject for me, and perhaps for her as well. My husband has a hard time taking his mind off his work long enough to think about me “in that way” much of the time. Even when I go to the effort of dressing myself up, or trying to look “sexy”, he still hardly notices, and never says anything to comment on my nice apperance. (I too, have gained some weight, and the 4th childs baby weight is still not going anywhere, but I can still make myself up to be very attractive) What I found is that over time (we are approaching 10 yrs of marriage) I stopped caring to look nice to/for him. If he didn’t notice when I looked good, would he notice when I looked frumpy? No makeup- baggy clothes? The answer was no. Over time, his rejection, physically and intimatly, wore down much of my self esteem, and made it easier to “let myself go”, especially around the house (stay at home mom). (I am working on looking nice for me- it was starting to lead to some symptoms of depression)

If your friends wife was feeling physically/emotionally rejected already, this could have started a snowball effect where she concluded her looks didn’t matter, and continued to let things go- a little at a time, until she ended up here.

Make sure your friend does 2 things for his wife- 1, tell her he loves her (and why), and 2, find something about her apperance that he truly does like- and compliment her on it. Women take rejection (physical and emotional) VERY seriously, and VERY personally.

(Make sure he apologizes for his behavior, and if financially possible- take her out shopping for some nice, well fitting clothes (shoes, and new makeup too, if possible) Nothing helps a woman feel like looking good than new, well tailored clothes! And if she feels so good she looses some weight- great! More new clothes! )

Thanks!
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Siena,

I am sitting here crying because I feel the same way. I really wish someone would talk to my husband and tell him this. He NEVER buys anything for me. He keeps saying we do not have the money, yet he can go out and spend on himself. I too am a stay home mother and have let myself go because how I feel.

One time I got a new “do”. EVERYONE (except DH) complimented on my style. It really hurt.

I can go on and on…

Please pray for me too.
 
That poor woman! Women feel bad enough about thier selves without added help!!!

I know I have low self-image…

My husband says he doesn’t have “very much” physical attraction for me. I’ve been complaining about struggling to lose wieght (extremely difficult for me!) and so he’s started nagging me any time I eat anything bad, making comments about how I shouldn’t have that second piece of this or that, etcetera. It really hurts, but he thinks that’s helping!

And then, he said something about how I’m “not exactly Bridgette Bardeaux”, whoever that is, and how really it is not that big of a temptation. Even though he’s all over me ALL the time.

It just makes me so mad that men are so shallow and selfish!!! They always tell you looks don’t matter to them, but it’s a lie!
 
One thing that needs to be addressed is the issue of “letting ones self go”. This occours to varying degrees and in differeing ways. It can happen physically and emotionally.

Physically is probably the most common way people refer to it but in our society it’s becoming harder and harder to find time to exercise. I commute about 2 1/2 hours to work. add and 8 hour day to that and I am away from home for about 10 1/2 hours, leaving 13 1/2 hours to sleep, eat breakfast and dinner, do chores around the house (my wife and I split those) and hove some time to try and unwind. My wife switched from a job that had her running after elementary kids to a desk job at the bank. Add no change in eating or exercising habits and she had gained a good deal of weight. I have and will never tell het she needs to go to the gym but she has brought it up and I have been tying to be encouraging. It’s not that I have lost my desire for my wife, in fact more often than not I feel like she isn’t interested in me. The issue I think is that she thinks since she had gained some weight she is less attractive to me. I have tried some things to counter this but I will wait a little to talk about this. I have one rule though, she must be a good steward of her own body. My wife has hypoglycemia, a condition which can turn into diabetes. My wife is known for loving sweet snacks and that increaces the odds of full blown diabetes later on. I want my wife to go to the gym so she can feel better about herself, but more importantly I want my wife to be healthy. I have been trying to do the same myself, working out a bit with weights (my wife used to love my chest, working on getting that back). Now that we have the main one down lets go to the more important aspect of letting oneself go…
 
One thing that needs to be addressed is the issue of “letting ones self go”. This occours to varying degrees and in differeing ways. It can happen physically and emotionally.

Physically is probably the most common way people refer to it but in our society it’s becoming harder and harder to find time to exercise. I commute about 2 1/2 hours to work. add and 8 hour day to that and I am away from home for about 10 1/2 hours, leaving 13 1/2 hours to sleep, eat breakfast and dinner, do chores around the house (my wife and I split those) and hove some time to try and unwind. My wife switched from a job that had her running after elementary kids to a desk job at the bank. Add no change in eating or exercising habits and she had gained a good deal of weight. I have and will never tell het she needs to go to the gym but she has brought it up and I have been tying to be encouraging. It’s not that I have lost my desire for my wife, in fact more often than not I feel like she isn’t interested in me. The issue I think is that she thinks since she had gained some weight she is less attractive to me. I have tried some things to counter this but I will wait a little to talk about this. I have one rule though, she must be a good steward of her own body. My wife has hypoglycemia, a condition which can turn into diabetes. My wife is known for loving sweet snacks and that increaces the odds of full blown diabetes later on. I want my wife to go to the gym so she can feel better about herself, but more importantly I want my wife to be healthy. I have been trying to do the same myself, working out a bit with weights (my wife used to love my chest, working on getting that back). Now that we have the main one down lets go to the more important aspect of letting oneself go…

The mental state is just as important to the state of of a marrage is just as important as the physical state of the body. leave your arm alone for a year or two and then go to use it, you’ll be in for a suprise if you ahve to catch a line drive headed to your nose… and a good doctors bill cause the durn thing ain’t gunna do squat for you. In the same way if you let your relationship stagnate once somthing difficult rears it’s ugly head your gunna need some serious spiritual intervention to stop the bleeding. I have been experamenting on ways to “keep my wife on her toes” so to speak. I try to at least once a week kiss her well. I know this sounds kind of odd but I think we all know the kind of kiss i’m talking about, and I try to do it before she runs out the door for work. Another thing is flowers, and never on a schedule (schedule is something that I am trying to avoid) My wife loves them and I try to pick some up every once in a while. We go out on dates on occasion and I’m trying to find more ways to sweep her off her feet. So far I have been meeting with only limited sucess as I think she has come to expect some of it and it has lost it’s “specialness” hence the departure from schecules. I am working on redoubling my efforts, if that doesn’t work some “maintnence counseling” might not be a bad idea.

I guess the point of the post is that one can let themselves go and still look like a super model. It takes more than just physical neglectto become lazy in a marriage and it’s never ok for either spouse to do it.
 
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Christian4life:
My husband says he doesn’t have “very much” physical attraction for me. I’ve been complaining about struggling to lose wieght (extremely difficult for me!) and so he’s started nagging me any time I eat anything bad, making comments about how I shouldn’t have that second piece of this or that, etcetera. It really hurts, but he thinks that’s helping!
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I think one thing that is important for men and women to realize is that we speak a totally different language, especially in this relm. You tell your husband you arn’t happy with how you look…

STOP ok I’m going to translate and tell me if I’m too far off…

Female translation:
You wanted your husband to know that you arn’t necessarily happy with how you feel about your physical appearance (I use feel here very purposefuly). You want him to support you emotionally and to reassure you, and maybe when you decide this is the right time to help you take on a more active role in being more healthy.

Male translation:
He heard that you want to loose weight. Chances are that if he is anything like most of the male population he just heard a task. He heard that you want to loose weight and nothing else. He didn’t hear that you wantede emotional suppost, he didn’t hear that you wanted help on your timeline, or that his emotional suppost is needed or even wanted.

We males tend to be task-oriented. That means that he heard a job to be done rather than a role to be filled. He really is trying to help, he just didn’t understand the translation 😉 .
 
Hmmmm.

What is a guy supposed to do when he compliments his wife on her looks and she just makes fun of it? For example, he might compliment her legs, to which she will laugh and make a vomitting noise. It’s kind of obnoxious because she’s insulting his tastes, basically saying, “you’ve got poor taste if you think these legs are beautiful.”
 
Black Jaque:
Hmmmm.

What is a guy supposed to do when he compliments his wife on her looks and she just makes fun of it? For example, he might compliment her legs, to which she will laugh and make a vomitting noise. It’s kind of obnoxious because she’s insulting his tastes, basically saying, “you’ve got poor taste if you think these legs are beautiful.”
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HA. My husband made a new rule that if he gives me a compliment and I can’t say anything nice, I am to “only smile” in reply. lol Sometimes he can practically see the grimace about to come on my face and he’ll be like, “SMILE! I said, SMILE!!!” and then we both laugh and both feel good.
 
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cargopilot:
By about the 3rd beer, a very good, long-time friend, confided that he has been avoiding/refusing his wife the marital act for some time. This coinsides with my wife’s communications with his wife (also a dear friend) about the same topic. According to my wife, she wants very much to resume at least, some kind of marital relations.
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What’s he doing talking to you aboput this – or his wife talking to yours about it? That is a betrayal – he has no right to tell you any of it and you should cut him off & tell him to talk to a priest, therapist ( even his wife!) about it.

Sorry, I don’t mean to come down on you, I think HE was in the wrong – and I agree with you on the advice you gave him. I guess my age is showing – I am absolutely stunned the things people “share” nowadays.
 
Shlemele, I just want to tell you that you’ve described my husband exactly:’
We males tend to be task-oriented. That means that he heard a job to be done rather than a role to be filled
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We had so many misunderstandings and hard feelings between us until I finally understood this about him.

Also, you sound like a wonderful husband. Bless you for all the things you do to keep your marriage alive.
 
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