Is Church Militant Schismatic?

[CatholicSooner]

How do you know what to pray for if you aren’t informed?

Exactly. I forgot to put that in my post.

Once the scandals are exposed, the laity can pray for justice to be done and for the issues to be corrected.

 

[gracepoole]

How do you know what to pray for if you aren’t informed?

Huh? I pray for Holy Mother Church everyday. I pray for my priests. I pray for my children, husband, and other family. And so on. Why would it matter if I lived in a cave and never heard of pachamama? It wouldn’t. I’d continue to pray.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

CatholicSooner:

gracepoole:

I’m starting to wonder how it benefits Catholics to know about some forms of scandal in the Church. It’s beneficial to publicize the sex abuse crisis because it’s important to change things at the parish level and seek justice for victims. But how does it benefit Catholics, for example, to know about the pachamama issue? How does it benefit our daily faith? We get so torqued up and outraged but for what purpose?

Are you really serious with this post? How is it beneficial to call out idolatry at the Vatican? Really?

I’m absolutely serious. Sacraments benefit you. Prayer benefits you. How does knowing about that particular scandal benefit your faith life?

It is more about preventing harm for others.

Others, it is already happening, are thinking it is OK to have a pagan idol in a Catholic Church and think that it represents Mary. If the Pope had not allowed this, people wouldn’t think it was OK. Since the Pope did allow it, others think it must be OK. This needs to be called out for the benefit of souls.

This is one thing I will not budge on. The Pope himself admitted it was the Pachamama idol. Go google that and tell me it isn’t a pagan idol.

So knowing about these scandals help the laity hold teh Bishops accountable for their actions. It purifies the Church. I can’t imagine St. Francis or St. Patrick or any other Saint having the opinion that keeping scandals quiet is beneficial to the Church or the laity

You do realize that throughout most of the Church’s history, the laity didn’t know about internal scandals, right? And they went right on receiving sacraments and being Catholic. Frankly you’re not going to have an impact on whether the pope allows pachamama at the Vatican. The Church isn’t a democracy.

 

[abinjoy]

Add the new entrant into the group- Dr.Taylor Marshall

 

[Trying2overcome]

No. They are just concerned Catholics.

 

[twf]

“Let all be subject to the bishop, and he to Christ.”
“Let no man do anything connected to the Church without the bishop…”
“Wherever the bishop shall appear…there is the Catholic Church.”
-St Ignatius of Antioch.

If the bishop of that place ordered them to drop the name Catholic, then they are bound under the pain of sin to obey. Period.

It’s amazing how quick CAFers are to sit in judgment over the vicars of Christ. Sure, bishops are imperfect, and can be criticized, but always with the utmost respect and reverence.

 

[pnewton]

You think the Church is thriving right now?

In much of the world, it is. In places where secular humanism and atheism are ingrained in the culture, not so much. Yet it is the same pope, the same church, universally. Logic suggests it is the soil, not the message that is problematic. Americans can be quite provincial in their thinking. Feeding oneself with like-minded outrage only exacerbates the problem.

How do you know what to pray for if you aren’t informed?

The worst of the problems, that which are actually true, make the news, you know, those people called journalists. While it is hard to have impartiality, at least the attempt at some objectivity makes truth much more palatable. Unfortunately, all the good that is done never makes the news, does it viewership on the internet.

 

[CatholicSooner]

CatholicSooner:

gracepoole:

CatholicSooner:

gracepoole:

I’m starting to wonder how it benefits Catholics to know about some forms of scandal in the Church. It’s beneficial to publicize the sex abuse crisis because it’s important to change things at the parish level and seek justice for victims. But how does it benefit Catholics, for example, to know about the pachamama issue? How does it benefit our daily faith? We get so torqued up and outraged but for what purpose?

Are you really serious with this post? How is it beneficial to call out idolatry at the Vatican? Really?

I’m absolutely serious. Sacraments benefit you. Prayer benefits you. How does knowing about that particular scandal benefit your faith life?

It is more about preventing harm for others.

Others, it is already happening, are thinking it is OK to have a pagan idol in a Catholic Church and think that it represents Mary. If the Pope had not allowed this, people wouldn’t think it was OK. Since the Pope did allow it, others think it must be OK. This needs to be called out for the benefit of souls.

This is one thing I will not budge on. The Pope himself admitted it was the Pachamama idol. Go google that and tell me it isn’t a pagan idol.

So knowing about these scandals help the laity hold teh Bishops accountable for their actions. It purifies the Church. I can’t imagine St. Francis or St. Patrick or any other Saint having the opinion that keeping scandals quiet is beneficial to the Church or the laity

You do realize that throughout most of the Church’s history, the laity didn’t know about internal scandals, right? And they went right on receiving sacraments and being Catholic. Frankly you’re not going to have an impact on whether the pope allows pachamama at the Vatican. The Church isn’t a democracy.

With all due respect, I am dumbfounded by this response. I think it is probably best to just leave the discussion here

 

[CatholicSooner]

HvonB:

How do you know what to pray for if you aren’t informed?

Huh? I pray for Holy Mother Church everyday. I pray for my priests. I pray for my children, husband, and other family. And so on. Why would it matter if I lived in a cave and never heard of pachamama? It wouldn’t. I’d continue to pray.

Would you like to know if one of your children had a deadly disease so you could specifically pray for a healing of that disease? Or would you rather be in the dark and offer general prayers of health?

 

[gracepoole]

There is probably more than one precedent but the story of how the Church was almost eclipsed by the Arian heresy which denied the Trinity, with even the Pope being enticed over to the wrong side, offers a memorable parable. Through the strenuous efforts of a single bishop, Athanasius of Alexandria, plus a few allies such as Paulinus of Trier, supported largely by the laity, the Trinitarians fought back in a persistent letter writing and lobbying campaign until the authorities finally took notice and came back to correct doctrine.

Is it your claim, then, that all Catholic laity was responsible for ending the Arian crisis? Do you really believe that the Arian crisis was ended because of a letter writing campaign by laity?

(BTW, what specific Church teaching has changed because pachamama was permitted in a Vatican church?)

 

[gracepoole]

With all due respect, I am dumbfounded by this response. I think it is probably best to just leave the discussion here

That’s fine. Frankly I was dumbfounded when I read your response to @pnewton, in which you asked if anyone thinks the Church is thriving right now. That question is not one that would be present for many if it weren’t for alarmists like Michael Voris.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

HvonB:

How do you know what to pray for if you aren’t informed?

Huh? I pray for Holy Mother Church everyday. I pray for my priests. I pray for my children, husband, and other family. And so on. Why would it matter if I lived in a cave and never heard of pachamama? It wouldn’t. I’d continue to pray.

Would you like to know if one of your children had a deadly disease so you could specifically pray for a healing of that disease? Or would you rather be in the dark and offer general prayers of health?

What is the “deadly disease” that the Church has right now? Either way, I never worry that God doesn’t know how to understand and apply my prayers. I pray for my children – He knows what they need far more than I do.

 

[Maximus1]

You assume they are meeting a duty. I don’t. I see a political movement that is not good for the Church. They elected themselves inquisition

 

[Wampa]

Here’s an example of Voris being wrong:

Michael Voris is perfectly true in the Faith, calling out schismatics such as the SSPX.

If he’s saying SSPX (and not the breakaway SSPX Resistance) is in schism, he’s wrong. Neither Voris nor SSPX is schismatic.

Re-purposing my own post from a month-old SSPX thread: based on the Church Militant video about the SSPX I watched earlier this year (I can’t remember which one, but it was a roundtable with 4 of the main CM people all contributing), I would call CM an unreliable source of information re SSPX.

In the video I watched, much of the info was either a highly hyberbolic angle on a disputed point, or just flat-out incorrect.

 

[TheLittleLady]

If you can ever get your hands on St Eymard’s “Duties of a Christian”, it so enforces our duty to the bishops and the pope.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I can’t imagine St. Francis or St. Patrick or any other Saint having the opinion that keeping scandals quiet is beneficial to the Church or the laity

St Francis gave the honor and respect due to priests:

On one occasion, a parishioner brought to the attention of St. Francis a priest involved in a scandalous affair. He asked St. Francis to go and correct the priest. The first thing St. Francis did was to kneel and kiss the hands of the priest. (From the Thirteenth-Century Testimonies #6.) St. Francis was not condoning any possible wrong behavior of the priest, but instead was teaching us that God works through his church, even when it’s ministers fall short.

St. Francis on Bad Priests

St. Francis taught his friars to be humble, as Christ was humble. This is the key to being a good leader. However, even if a Priest or Church leader is sinful, because Christ founded the Church and acts through it, we still receive Christ in the Sacraments, and in the Church's teaching.

franciscandiscernment.org

 

[The27thPsalm]

There is probably more than one precedent but the story of how the Church was almost eclipsed by the Arian heresy which denied the Trinity, with even the Pope being enticed over to the wrong side, offers a memorable parable.

Which Pope became an Arian? Unless he was enticed in a different way, not with a failure of faith.

 

[Bon_Croix]

INvestigated by who? Legitimate law enforcement, the Church, or organizations out to do damage to the Church?

 

[MarkRome]

Satan is the great accuser of the brethren. IMO, Church Militant / Michael Voris just helps him out a little bit.

 

[Mi_Rose]

I pray for all the clergy every night and lesve the specifics to God.