Is eternal suffering pointless?

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I can explain why the Church, early on, went in the direction of human depravity, but that would take up a lot of space here. There is an organic approach to theology (in all of humanity) that is dualistic, (and, I must add, your own words may reflect this same dualism. It is normal and natural.) A theological approach that moves beyond dualism (the “Star Wars” or Zoroastrian approaches are dualistic) is one that involves transcending the conscience itself. A mature theology is one that transcends the conscience by loving and forgiving everyone, including the parts of oneself.
Yes, we agree here I think. Dualism presents itself throughout human history alongside polytheism and other forms of idolatry. The notion that there is only one God, and that existence is all-good is counter-intuitive for we who descend from pagan ancestors. The Christian notions of satan, hell, and original sin are concessions to our false intuitions of dualism and polytheism, in my opinion. The great revelation of the Torah and reason is that God is one, he is all-good, and his creation is good. Evil is the result of our imperfection, because we are co-creators with God, and we are messing it up!
For example, yes, the Church generally believes that it holds the truth. Do you believe that you hold the truth, as opposed to the Church? If so, be honest about it, and accept that we all have a tendency to think we individually hold the truth. The Church says some things that communicate some resentment of humanity. Do you have a bit of resentment toward some people? If so, be honest about it, and accept that our nature is such that we are all capable of resentment and hatred. The way beyond this resentment is to forgive. If you hold some resentment toward the Church hierarchy, can you forgive them?
Everyone thinks they know the truth, or else they wouldn’t believe it, yes. We can’t escape from this, we must believe that which we think is true, and we must form beliefs or we can’t function as human persons. We must continually ask questions in order to make sure we’re not blinded by our own arrogance and foolishness. Socrates is the best teacher of this fundamental truth, in my experience.

Yes you are right, sometimes I resent and hate others. May God have mercy on me and teach me to repent!

You are right, I resent the Church. You are right I must forgive them. :sad_yes: I am trying. They couldn’t have done it on purpose, knowing it was false. Some day I sincerely hope all of us will laugh at all this passing vanity in the World To Come.
From the same article I cited:

In fact, the universal salvific will of God and the correspondingly universal mediation of Christ mean that all theological notions that ultimately call into question the very omnipotence of God, and his mercy in particular, are inadequate.

Peace to you, P.C.
Yes, I agree with the ITC here. Theologies that make God’s omnipotence, omnibenevolence, or omniscience unbelievable in the sense that they cannot be held by a rational person, are inadequate. 👍

Peace to you too!
 
Man! Dude! Wow!
I watched Nightmare on Elm Street when I was 8 and sort of had similar dreams, but I knew they came from a work of fiction… I managed to sort them out myself and came out with a full appreciation of what is a work of fiction… but with you, damn! You thought it was real!

Some people focus the teachings way too much on the punishment part. They may think they’re doing good, but it can backfire in terrible ways.

To all christians: exhibit A that it’s not just atheism that leads to mental problems.
My advice to you guys: take notes from OneSheep. I think he’s on to something. 😉
Of course I thought it was real. I was a sensitive young child. My grandmother had gory paintings of the exposed, flaming, bleeding hearts of Jesus and Mary with daggers poking into them on her walls. We went to mass each week with gory, disturbing images of a man being tortured everywhere! It was horrifying. I didn’t have the resources as a young child to understand that it was all a bunch of nonsense, and my parents and grandparents just thought it was normal. I don’t go as far as Dawkins or Hitchens in claiming that religious beliefs are child abuse in themselves, but certain children probably shouldn’t be exposed to some things.

Me: “Daddy, a demon in my dream told me he is going to kill me on Christmas and take me to hell where he is going to burn me forever, I’m so scared.”

What my Dad didn’t say: “No kid you just had a bad dream. Demons are made up and so is hell, don’t worry!”

I do not blame my father for not saying this. What was he supposed to do? To have said that would be apostasy. What did he do instead? He took me to a psychiatrist. A perfectly reasonable thing to do given the circumstances. I am so grateful my parents did that for me. I shudder to think of all the parents who would have ignored or even encouraged their child’s fears.

It is harder for me to forgive those perpetrated these ideas in the first place, but I think participating in this forum is helping actually.
 
Hey good morning to you too. 🙂 Maybe we share a time-zone?

I mean no resentment when describing a person as evil. An evil or wicked person is he or she who does things that are wrong. We are evil in proportion to the seriousness of the wrong things we do, and the good things we could have done but failed to do. We become evil or good by our own choices, thoughts, and actions.
Good Morning P.C.,

That definition must make it a little difficult to discern when one is resentful. Nowadays, whenever I feel like punishing or feel negatively toward someone or some group, I use the words with all of the resentment intact. It’s okay to resent, there is a place for it. I have learned that there comes a time to forgive because the resentment is an anomaly in the “oneness” (wholeness). I do know this: the negativity is an illusion. I only use the words in my mind, so not to encourage resentment in others.

When we are writing, it is very difficult to discern tone. If I write “evil person” using your definition above, people will assume the emotional undertone because that undertone represents the common use of the word.

So, as a result, if I say “that group is evil” I may be initiating or encouraging the thought that the group is one that we should resent. In addition, do evil choices, thoughts, and acts actually make us “become” different? Well, in my observations, no. We are, as you state, born good, and those choices, thoughts and actions, as hard as it may be to believe, come from that goodness. The necessary ingredient in those c,t,&a is that people are either lacking in awareness or have become blinded.
Sure, and he says God is the arbiter of truth and salvation. In order to believe in God we must submit to Jesus (so says the Church). In order to believe in Jesus we must submit to the Church (so says the Church). In order to believe in the Church, I must do violence to my reason and conscience, this I should not do.
Is there salvation outside of the Church? They say: no way. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.
That is the universal teaching of the magisterium defined infallibly by several dogmatic councils. It isn’t organic in my opinion, but highly artificial. No other civilization thinks everyone’s children deserve to be punished by god(s) just for being born!
Who are we to believe: the ITC, or Trent? Hans Urs Von Balthasar, or Aquinas? Does she who has the “fullness of truth” contradict herself?.
Here is one constant dilemma: Doctrinal decisions are made by the hierarchy. The hierarchy has to follow the words of Christ, but they are also charged with “tending the flock”, keeping the flock together. Every time that there is a smidgen of doctrinal change, people get totally freaked out and want to leave or divide.

In addition, even the Gospel sends sort of a “mixed message”. I don’t know if it is because of translation problems or because Jesus Himself recognized that people move very slowly from an organic dualistic theology. As long as there are people that the individual has not forgiven, or there are parts of the self that a person has not reconciled with, then there remains a bit of dualism in the individual. If I see parts of myself as inherently “bad”, I will see the cosmos in the same way. That said, I really do think that there is a place for dualism in the spiritual development of the human. Until empathy becomes fully developed, it is functional in the conscience to have a sense of “when I am being good” and “when I am being bad” to motivate my behaviors in the right direction.

cont’d
 
Yes, we agree here I think. Dualism presents itself throughout human history alongside polytheism and other forms of idolatry. The notion that there is only one God, and that existence is all-good is counter-intuitive for we who descend from pagan ancestors. The Christian notions of satan, hell, and original sin are concessions to our false intuitions of dualism and polytheism, in my opinion. The great revelation of the Torah and reason is that God is one, he is all-good, and his creation is good. Evil is the result of our imperfection, because we are co-creators with God, and we are messing it up!
The notion that there is only one God goes against the workings of our conscience too. Like I mentioned, our normal conscience is going to develop a bit of resentment towards, for example, our desire to dominate, our capacity to hate and resent, and our desire to have what someone else has (all of which are innate desires evident in other mammals). We will naturally group these resented parts of ourself as “bad”, and believe that they come from an evil source. I call it “organic”, it seems very natural.
Everyone thinks they know the truth, or else they wouldn’t believe it, yes. We can’t escape from this, we must believe that which we think is true, and we must form beliefs or we can’t function as human persons. We must continually ask questions in order to make sure we’re not blinded by our own arrogance and foolishness. Socrates is the best teacher of this fundamental truth, in my experience.
“Arrogance” and “foolisheness” are a couple of those emotion-laden words, right? So we see the function of the conscience in guiding our every behavior. We avoid “being” arrogant and foolish. Socrates was great, yes!
Yes you are right, sometimes I resent and hate others. May God have mercy on me and teach me to repent!
You are right, I resent the Church. You are right I must forgive them. :sad_yes: I am trying. They couldn’t have done it on purpose, knowing it was false. Some day I sincerely hope all of us will laugh at all this passing vanity in the World To Come.
Well, it can be observed that people never knowingly and willingly reject God (if you saw my thread). Even the Church hierarchy, if they seem to be totally in the wrong, are well intended but are capable of a bit of blindness. They are people.
Yes, I agree with the ITC here. Theologies that make God’s omnipotence, omnibenevolence, or omniscience unbelievable in the sense that they cannot be held by a rational person, are inadequate. 👍
Peace to you too!
Thank God your father took the right steps when it became obvious that you had been exposed to an untruth! To me, your sense of Love is one that would only add to the manifestation of the Kingdom wherever you are. I once held some resentment toward the Church, but I have come to understand the progression of history. Before I forgave, the crux of my own commitment to the Church was “If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.” To some degree, that is still an important part of my belonging, but I don’t see the “problems” as negative so much anymore. We learn from our mistakes, and there is a time to move forward. For pastoral reasons, change cannot come from the hierarchy, it has to come from the flock, as the Spirit moves in both.

Like I said before, Pumpkin Cookie, keep your voice here, it is a thoughful voice.👍
 
Because your question makes no sense.
It makes sense if you remember that people can inflict suffering on themselves. Why do you think that is impossible? What about people who climb mountains? Are they deceiving themselves and others?
Self-inflicted how and what does who inflicts something effect the goodness or evilness of an action(unless you are saying something about intentionality which isn’t implied by your simplistic question)?
Two fallacies! Non sequitur (“affects the goodness or evilness of an action”)and Petitio principii (“simplistic”).
Does this whole self-inflicted thing apply to anything else or just eternal suffering?
How about self-inflicted work, disease, penance, fasting, isolation…?
When you say “how can be” do you mean “how can”?
I do indeed. Do you ever make mistakes?
Also you aren’t addressing my assertion that eternal suffering is evil you are disputing who is it evil for.
It is obvious unless you are looking for a way to evade the issue…
I think that you mean is irrelevant.
If you haven’t given an answer there is nothing to be relevant or irrelevant!
 
No, what I said was “supernatural HUMAN being”.
Unless there’s something I’ve missed, you’re not a supernatural HUMAN being either but you are a normal HUMAN being.
The Church has defined hell, and the principle characteristic of hell is that it is permanent and full of despair of never being fulfilled in seeing God their one true source of all happiness. We can argue about the other ideas of hell, but despair in never seeing God is not one of them because it has been stated as permanent. We can argue about the state or place of hell, but not its permanence which causes absolute despair.
The Church is wrong in saying that a person should be cut off for eternity from actually seeing God; the Beatific Vision. In another post I mentioned that everyone MUST see God initially because that is where everyone will feel the love of God. God’s love will blast into every soul. Every sinner will feel the pain they have caused by their sins in life, beg forgiveness and willingly accept their FINITE punishment. Rather than loose a soul for ever, we have a perfect corrections facility that returns an inmate to the general population as a totally reformed person.
A Catholic Universalist believes no human being is in hell … but they must believe that the fallen angels are in hell which has been defined. They believe that noone goes there contrary to what the more famous saints in the church have said. And in the face of the church defining hell, it would not seem opposite to the spirit of the church not to believe that some humans go to hell. And with 7 billion people in the world today, what would be the chance of noone going there? However in the face of all of that, the church has never said that any one being is in hell so that it still remains open to the idea, except for the fallen angels.
I hadn’t heard of Catholic Universalists before and will check up on it. I am aware that Catholic means universal; in the colloquial translation. I’ll use it from now on because it fits my faith more than Christian Universalist. The above is a very sensible position for the Church to take on hell for the human race. Seven billion and any other number no matter how high is nothing to God but I fully understand what you mean by quoting it. What I find very strange about the fallen angels is that they committed sins in heaven! Don’t we have a contradiction here? Heaven is supposed to be perfect yet we have an Archangel and a third of the angels staging a coup
So we must believe in hell and believe that the fallen angels are there … at least this. So it can never be said that a Catholic is free to not believe in hell or that hell does not exist. And we must believe in eternal punishment because the fallen angels are there permanently.
Please see my comment above but if there were fallen angels and they are in hell for eternity, I don’t think human souls will be concerned about it. Strangely, it doesn’t concern me either and I don’t believe in hell so I would be willing to accept it. However, it all sounds mythological to me and seems to belong with the New Age Spiritualists.
That isn’t what the church says. It says…
“Since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching firmly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of our salvation.” (Vatican II, Dei verbum, #11)
How could God be wrong? It is his book(s). Anything that seems like an error is due to our lack of knowledge and misunderstanding. That is why we need the church to guide us it its reading to the good of our salvation and not as a book(s) of science.

And rejecting what we do not like is again stating in another way that the book(s) are in error. And just because we do not know all the answers dosen’t mean that the facts aren’t true. A person of faith is one that never loses their trust in God even tho on the surface it may seem as if God does not know truth and good.

That is what virtue is about. It is easy to love when love is seen, but the person who really loves is one who loves when it is not apparent in the other. Faith, hope, charity … of which love is the greatest. This not only applies to us, but our love for God as well. And love shows itself in trust. Either God is love or he isn’t. St. John says God is Love. And St John read the Old Testiment too and the same passages as you and I have.
I’ll purely comment on the three Abrahamic religions because we all worship the same God. Jews, Christians and Muslims all say their books are the word of God and are inerrant but God has given a different message to all three. At the end of the day, the Torah, the Bible and the Quran were written by humans and humans make mistakes. The writers present/describe God and the prophets in their particular time, culture and place. The holy books were written in ancient languages and translated into other languages. Stories were passed on by word of mouth and written down years later. In all of the above, errors must have been made and there are contradictions. Notwithstanding the above, the authors and compilers did a phenomenal job in producing their holy books.
God is definitely love and as you said love is the greatest from faith, hope and charity. For me love trumps everything and it is love that prevents me from believing in hell and/or eternal punishment. All religions need criticism – the more the merrier. The reason why Islam and with it Muslims are in such a mess is because Islam has never been subjected to criticism. I “cherry pick”. My Bible is full of side notes and highlights.

CONTINUED
 
CONTINUED
Answered above.
Ditto
I’ll rephrase this for you to make it clearer…if you do the sin, you do eternity, just like if you do the crime you do the time.
It is immeasurably more just and as I have shown, immeasurably more productive to provide everyone with the Beatific Vision
Your are scaring me now, because you are sounding more like my wife.
Reading it again worries me as well because it does sound exactly like my wife!🙂
That’s good and I agree, God continues to love us here regardless …
But someday “here” is going to stop, and we will be “there”. And then we ride the up or down elevator there depending on our ticket … sanctifying grace.
I believe a RETURN down ticket after the Beatific Vision is justice for everyone including God.
I agree that those in hell there is no love, mercy, justice or forgiveness precisely because they are now full of hate for God. It is on their part that these qualities do not exist. At that point they will see themselves for what they have made themselves become … ugly … in the sight of God, man, other devils. And the one thing that could have prevented this they did not do … ask for mercy and admit they were wrong.
They will ask for mercy and admit they were wrong and LOVE God if they are given the chance in the afterlife.
And we cannot say that the Gospel is the Good News if we don’t hear all the News. We need to know for our own good. It is another source of incentive for some people, and especially to get them to realize just how bad things are so they will turn their lives around. Nineveh is an example, where Jonah preached to repent and the whole town did and God then did not carry out his woesome plan for them.

It is a source of Good to know what awaits so we do not experience that unspeakable state regardless of how it comes about. Wouldn’t it be better if a person knew about hell and avoided it because of that knowledge rather than not knowing it and going there? God revealed this to us for our own good. Maybe some don’t need it, but many do.

Just keep praying to the Sacred Heart. (And keep away from my wife from now on.)
I have already mentioned that the Bible like the Torah and the Quran are wide open to error and contradiction. As a Catholic Universalist, I believe the Church is onto something incredible with purgatory and I believe everyone goes there; the length of time dependent on the crime and number of crimes. This is what I tell non Christians.

Quick story about my wife. Many years ago we had our current home built on a new subdivision. For over a year, my wife “bent my ear” about the big mistake I made having a house built on this subdivision. She also told friends and everyone we met. Boy, I would have rather been sent to hell. After a year, the new town centre was built with excellent shops, cinema etc and a new high school – all a few minutes walk away. My wife then said to people, what a great decision WE made moving here!🙂
 
Justice, which is love’s attitude toward sin, cannot be heartless.
I’m not sure why you would pity any human being who has transformed himself into a demon any more than you would pity Satan.
At a certain point there is nothing left to love; there is simply mourning for what might have been.
If anyone is in hell are they only people who are so evil that they resemble a demon? I wouldn’t call people with one unconfessed mortal sin on their souls demons.
 
If anyone is in hell are they only people who are so evil that they resemble a demon? I wouldn’t call people with one unconfessed mortal sin on their souls demons.
You sound like a lawyer. The rules were established because of the hardness of our hearts.
One sin, a million, anything that closes the door on one’s relationship with God will have the same result.
A mortal sin is a willfull rejection of God, who is the Source of all truth, goodness and beauty.
Demons come in all shapes and sizes; hopefully you are aware when it awakens within.
But, there is more to it; we must love God and our neighbour.
 
It makes sense if you remember that people can inflict suffering on themselves. Why do you think that is impossible? What about people who climb mountains? Are they deceiving themselves and others?
We are definitely on a different page here. I don’t remember saying people couldn’t inflict suffering on themselves. I think if anything I am saying the opposite. What about mountain climbers? Stop being cryptic. Please describe what you are saying like you would to a child or someone who has no clue what you are talking about. I am definitely the latter.
Two fallacies! Non sequitur (“affects the goodness or evilness of an action”)and Petitio principii (“simplistic”).
“Erroneous on both counts!” How is this a non sequitur? Petitio principii is “begging the question” or circular reasoning, it is not usually a problem of a “simplistic” nature. I have never heard someone say that a question was begging the question before now. Thanks for correcting my “effect” though I suck at english. Are you an advocate of divine command theory, because if you are your answer makes a lot more sense?
It is obvious unless you are looking for a way to evade the issue
Look I don’t like making assumptions about what people believe. I know people who believe all sorts of things. For the sake of moving this discussion further I will assume that you believe that eternal suffering is evil. Now we can move to the matter of justice
If you haven’t given an answer there is nothing to be relevant or irrelevant!
I think we may be talking past each other. I am not attacking you. I truthfully want to know what your view is. I understand what you are saying about my non answer, but I wouldn’t phrase it that way. Before I was trying to get you to better describe your question because there seems to be a lot of implicit things in there that I don’t want to assume you are thinking.

I asked the question below to see if I could use an analogy or if you thought that the nature of eternal suffering is so different than any other type of suffering that no sufficient analogy can be made. Either position is fine with me I just want to grasp your understanding of this issue.
“Does this whole self-inflicted thing apply to anything else or just eternal suffering?”
 
You know?.. the sad part is that many people still impart that view of christianity (catholic or otherwise) upon their children.
And it sort of works.
  • Some people become so averse to the possibility of hell, that they can’t bring themselves to completely put the belief aside. Many people realize that religion may be wrong, but have a really hard time coming to grips with that, exactly because of the fear of hell. This can then lead to depression (which can be promptly cured with some snake-oil :p)
You mean the way Christ told us too? The way we were taught to baptize our Children in the name of the Trinity? To teach you kids as you have learned?
 
If anyone is in hell are they only people who are so evil that they resemble a demon? I wouldn’t call people with one unconfessed mortal sin on their souls demons.
What would you call them? Angels? Do you even know what mortal sin is?

Mortal Sin is something that you have, and know that you have, and would rather be separated from God then forego the sin.
 
I am coming at this late, but think I can contribute to the conversation. Im not sure if this angle has been addressed perhaps someone can even elaborate on what I have to say and read of Aquinas.

"The soul and will is affected by our sense appetite [in this life]. In the next life the body will be reunited with the pre-existing soul and will be completely governed by the condition of the soul. The soul will remain perpetually in whatever last end it is found in at death. After this life, those who live good lives will have their wills forever fixed in good. But those who are found evil at that moment will be forever obstinate in evil.

So if the will of evil men is obstinately fettered to evil after death, they forever continue to desire what they previously desired, in the conviction that this is the best. (The will always desires what is best) Therefore they are not sorry they have sinned; for no one is sorry he has achieved what he judges to be the best (174-175 Aquinas Shorter Summa)."

Does this help move the discussion forward or has it been addressed already?

Odell
 
Perhaps God has a purpose for those in Hell, such as working, much like we do here in this world.
 
I am coming at this late, but think I can contribute to the conversation. Im not sure if this angle has been addressed perhaps someone can even elaborate on what I have to say and read of Aquinas.

"The soul and will is affected by our sense appetite [in this life]. In the next life the body will be reunited with the pre-existing soul and will be completely governed by the condition of the soul. The soul will remain perpetually in whatever last end it is found in at death. After this life, those who live good lives will have their wills forever fixed in good. But those who are found evil at that moment will be forever obstinate in evil.

So if the will of evil men is obstinately fettered to evil after death, they forever continue to desire what they previously desired, in the conviction that this is the best. (The will always desires what is best) Therefore they are not sorry they have sinned; for no one is sorry he has achieved what he judges to be the best (174-175 Aquinas Shorter Summa)."

Does this help move the discussion forward or has it been addressed already?

Odell
Hi.

Does St. Thomas Aquinas say how a person can be “found evil”?

Thanks. I have yet to get that copy of “Aquinas for Dummies” I need to get.😃
 
Hi.

Does St. Thomas Aquinas say how a person can be “found evil”?

Thanks. I have yet to get that copy of “Aquinas for Dummies” I need to get.😃
I don’t have it on me. I know we would have to qualify what it means to be found evil. We know that nothing can be inherently evil and evil is a departure from God’s goodness. We know that the basic tendency of a things nature is good for all nature’s are created and sourced by God.

So to claim that one is found evil would be to say one has acted contrary to one’s own natural ends.
 
I don’t have it on me. I know we would have to qualify what it means to be found evil. We know that nothing can be inherently evil and evil is a departure from God’s goodness. We know that the basic tendency of a things nature is good for all nature’s are created and sourced by God.

So to claim that one is found evil would be to say one has acted contrary to one’s own natural ends.
Yes, I agree, nothing can be inherently found evil. None of existence is evil, and when we refer to “departures” we are talking about choices. And, since our choices are often made in ignorance, especially all choices involving such “departures”, a person who makes a wrong choice from ignorance cannot reasonably be considered “evil” in character, but more of someone “good” who is also ignorant (or blind).

Indeed, the crowd who hung Jesus was found lacking in awareness, and so was St. Paul as he persecuted Christians, by his own admission.

There is an exception I am thinking of, and that is if “evil” refers to “what I resent”, then it is not the characteristics or explanation of ignorance that applies, it is my own emotional reaction that counts. So, a person is “found evil” by me because I resent him; I have not forgiven him. This case, however, does not apply to God, for He always forgives.

Therefore, I find it difficult to come up with an example of someone being “found evil”, and I wonder what Aquinas would have to say about that.

Thanks for your response.
 
I am coming at this late, but think I can contribute to the conversation. Im not sure if this angle has been addressed perhaps someone can even elaborate on what I have to say and read of Aquinas.

"The soul and will is affected by our sense appetite [in this life]. In the next life the body will be reunited with the pre-existing soul and will be completely governed by the condition of the soul. The soul will remain perpetually in whatever last end it is found in at death. After this life, those who live good lives will have their wills forever fixed in good. But those who are found evil at that moment will be forever obstinate in evil.

So if the will of evil men is obstinately fettered to evil after death, they forever continue to desire what they previously desired, in the conviction that this is the best. (The will always desires what is best) Therefore they are not sorry they have sinned; for no one is sorry he has achieved what he judges to be the best (174-175 Aquinas Shorter Summa)."

Does this help move the discussion forward or has it been addressed already?

Odell
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
  • CCC 1035
  1. Who are punished in hell?
Those are punished in hell who die in mortal sin; they are deprived of the vision of God and suffer dreadful torments, especially that of fire, for all eternity.
(a) The souls in hell are beyond all help. They do not belong to the Mystical Body of Christ or to the Communion of Saints. They are not included among our neighbors and are not the objects of charity. They are doomed to the company of the devils for all eternity.
(b) The souls in hell do not have supernatural faith. They believe, however, in the truths revealed by Almighty God, not with divine faith, but because they cannot escape the evidence of God’s authority.
(c) The privation of the beatific vision is called the pain of loss; the torment inflicted by created means on the soul, and on the body after its resurrection, is called the pain of sense.
(d) It is not against God’s mercy to punish souls in hell for eternity. God’s justice demands that He thus punish those who, sinning gravely and refusing to repent, deliberately turn themselves from God, their last end.
(e) The punishment of hell is eternal; Our Lord referred to it as “everlasting fire.”
  • Baltimore Catechism No. 3 Lesson 14
How can they not experience regret at the same time as experiencing the pain of loss? How can they not experience regret when they are in endless physical pain?

Both of these sources have multiple nihil obstats and imprimaturs from several ecclesiastical authorities, and thus represent the authentic teaching of the magisterium, in my opinion.

Good news…ya right! :rolleyes:
 
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