T
- Status
T
Tom_Baum
Guest
Part I
I hope and pray for God to forgive ALL and that ALL of God’s creation is with God in God’s Kingdom.
I am glad that God allowed satan to do what he did during those 24 plus hours but when it was happening, I sure wasn’t glad it was happening, as far as I am concerned it is God’s “job” to deal with satan.
Something to think about: if we only had a choice between God and God, how much choice would that give our “free will”?
It may seem to you “that God inspired Mohammed, but the message was not perfectly received” and you can go with that but I disagree and to me it would be a cop-out and would be like spitting in God’s Face.
I could be wrong but it seems crystal clear to me that one of the main teachings of islam is that Jesus is NOT God-Incarnate but is merely a prophet and is a prophet of the god of islam which revealed this to Muhammed, this seems to me to be something quite more than not just “perfectly received”.
Is this or is this not, to your knowledge, one of the basic tenets of islam?
I happen to think that Jesus was speaking about forgiving our fellow human beings, ALL OF THEM.
I hope and pray for God to forgive ALL and that ALL of God’s creation is with God in God’s Kingdom.
I am glad that God allowed satan to do what he did during those 24 plus hours but when it was happening, I sure wasn’t glad it was happening, as far as I am concerned it is God’s “job” to deal with satan.
Something to think about: if we only had a choice between God and God, how much choice would that give our “free will”?
As far as, “We are in agreement that man is not a dictation machine, which is what I think you mean to say”, actually, that is exactly what I did say.
It may seem to you “that God inspired Mohammed, but the message was not perfectly received” and you can go with that but I disagree and to me it would be a cop-out and would be like spitting in God’s Face.
I could be wrong but it seems crystal clear to me that one of the main teachings of islam is that Jesus is NOT God-Incarnate but is merely a prophet and is a prophet of the god of islam which revealed this to Muhammed, this seems to me to be something quite more than not just “perfectly received”.
Is this or is this not, to your knowledge, one of the basic tenets of islam?
T
Tom_Baum
Guest
Part II
If you notice, I spoke of the “god of islam” who it is said communicated what he communicated to Muhammed, I did not speak of islam nor did I speak of Muslims.
You may think that this “communicates condemnation”, to me it is communicating what I think of the “god of islam” not islam itself or Muslims.
I wrote concerning God, “that God is NOT the “big dictation machine” in the sky”, I do not consider he who revealed to Muhammed to be God and he could very well have acted like a “dictation machine”.
Another thing, you can check this out if you want but didn’t whoever reveal these things to Muhammed claim to be Gabriel?
Personally, I believe it was “you know who” for the simple reason, just my opinion, that “you know who” trusted no one else to do it.
If there is a “battle”, isn’t the "battle between God and satan over God’s creation which we are part of?
To me the “GOOD NEWS” is that God wins totally and satan loses totally and that a tie is absolutely and utterly unacceptable.
You wrote, “Saying that someone’s religion is founded by satan, or any idea of theirs is founded by satan, does not communicate respect, it communicates condemnation.”
If you notice, I spoke of the “god of islam” who it is said communicated what he communicated to Muhammed, I did not speak of islam nor did I speak of Muslims.
You may think that this “communicates condemnation”, to me it is communicating what I think of the “god of islam” not islam itself or Muslims.
I wrote concerning God, “that God is NOT the “big dictation machine” in the sky”, I do not consider he who revealed to Muhammed to be God and he could very well have acted like a “dictation machine”.
Another thing, you can check this out if you want but didn’t whoever reveal these things to Muhammed claim to be Gabriel?
Personally, I believe it was “you know who” for the simple reason, just my opinion, that “you know who” trusted no one else to do it.
I am not putting on airs, I am just trying to do the “job” that God chose me to do, I sure didn’t choose me.
If there is a “battle”, isn’t the "battle between God and satan over God’s creation which we are part of?
To me the “GOOD NEWS” is that God wins totally and satan loses totally and that a tie is absolutely and utterly unacceptable.
No one should believe everything they hear and no one should disbelieve everything they hear, even tho “Much of it is untrue”, what is built into your statement that I " ", is that much of it is true.
I wish you well and I may not know just how to do the “job” God chose me to do but I am going to at least give it a shot.Yes, I agree.
Pray with me, Tom, for peace, for the Kingdom, for charity and good will among people.
Have a great day!
T
tonyrey
Guest
O
OneSheep
Guest
Good Morning Tom!
This brings us back to the topic of the thread, does it not? Are you suggesting that it is better to claim that satan founded Islam, which is essentially spitting in the face of an entire people, than to “spit in the face” of God?
It is an interesting question, I think it makes a few perhaps false assumptions, which I will go into later, but Jesus does ask us to love one another, and I think we have learned that love involves giving people the benefit of the doubt.
When we have an opinion that may trigger hurt, anger, and communicates disrespect, Tom, I think that it is best that we scrutinize the opinion very carefully. For example, you give Islam the “benefit of the doubt” when it comes to their saying that the Koran comes directly from a supernatural source, but you give them the “worst of the doubt” when you say that it was satan, not God, who was that supernatural founder.
Do you see it possible that when we “spit in the face” of Muslim people, by claiming their religion is founded by satan, that you may be simultaneously “spitting in the face” of God?
Tom, I think it is possible that every day, every one of us inadvertently “spits in the face of God”. We do so without knowing, without thinking, without *intending * to do so. What, then, is God’s reaction? Is God vengeful about it, or does He see our ignorance and forgive? Does He even take offense in the first place?
Indeed, when Islam says to us, “your prophet is not God” and we respond with “your god is satan” it sounds less like love, and more like vengeance.
Does the belief by Muslims that Jesus is not our Lord “spit in your face”? If so, can you forgive?
Please continue to pray with me, for reconciliation among peoples, for the Kingdom.
Thanks!
L
Lost_Sheep
Guest
“You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,” -Exodus 20:5
He sounds mean to me.
He sounds mean to me.
R
RBushlow
Guest
Truth is Good, Falsehood is bad. Even worse, worshiping what is False is very bad. Also hating God is bad. Helping people see the error of their ways and bringing them to a knowledge of the Truth is very beneficial for them. That is not mean, that is looking out for the ultimate good of those people who have gotten off track.“You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,” -Exodus 20:5
He sounds mean to me.
L
Lost_Sheep
Guest
Basically, God is saying “Believe in me or else!” It’s a threat. As one might say in Psychology 101, it is all negative reinforcement and no positive reinforcement.
You get nothing for following him, but you get unimaginable punishment for not following him.
D
davidv
Guest
Heaven is “nothing”?
Which one voluntarily choses by ignoring the sign posts and effectively driving off the road into the abyss.
S
Scottgun
Guest
Indeed. As an old billboard I saw once put it: “Heaven or Hell: not a chance, but a choice.”
T
tonyrey
Guest
One of the most absurd statements I have ever come across!
T
tonyrey
Guest
No wonder you are struggling when you have such a distorted idea of God.
P
Peter_Plato
Guest
If a “warning” is taken to be a threat, then you might be right.
However, if the truth simply is that believing in God and following his ways are the paths to life and not doing so inevitably leads to death, then your Psychology 101 training just might falsely lead you to think that someone who posts a “Beware of Dog” or “Cliff Ahead” warning is being unduly negative in their approach because they do not positively reinforce your tendency to stay on the path - but rather wander off it - by giving you a fair warning of what will happen when you do.
My Philosophy 101 training tells me that the clear truth is more important and more effectual than beating around the bush by making vague references or reinforcing error because of fear that someone might take offense.
The unstated message, in that case, is that we ought to give as much credence and respect to error and falsehood as we do to the truth merely because a person - worthy of respect - holds the errant belief. Does, however, respect or loyalty owed to a person necessarily mean the same respect or allegiance is owed to any idea they espouse?
T
tonyrey
Guest
Only Fundamentalists interpret every text in the Old Testament literally. It is an indisputable fact that the blood-stained history of humanity is the result of the hatred, neglect and indifference of many of our ancestors towards others:“You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,” -Exodus 20:5
He sounds mean to me.
.
Matthew 25:31-46:
It follows that the harm we do to others is done to Jesus:
“Jesus will be in agony until the end of the world, we must not sleep during that time.”
- Pascal
L
Lost_Sheep
Guest
This is all based on my life experience. Whether it is distorted or not is a matter of opinion. Just saying.No wonder you are struggling when you have such a distorted idea of God.
L
Lost_Sheep
Guest
Who says I’m going to Heaven? Who says *anyone *is going to Heaven?
T
tonyrey
Guest
It is an unjustified **interpretation **of your life experience. How do you **know **you “get nothing for following him”? Do you believe selfish people get more out of life than those who love others unselfishly?
L
Lost_Sheep
Guest
All I can tell you is I have tried my darnedest to have a good relationship with God and I am pathetically unhappy with my life. I see people all around me who are happy - with or without God - and I’m not one of them.
Prove to me that God doesn’t hate me.
P
PRmerger
Guest
I suggest you go talk to a priest who has a background in counseling. You are in need of some strong spiritual direction.
P
Peter_Plato
Guest
Doesn’t that depend upon the mental or emotional connections we make between God’s love and what that evidentially means in our lives?
The martyrs or Peter being crucified upside down, or Jesus himself hanging on the cross may have had the same kind of reasons to think God hated them, but they saw with eyes of faith that looked through appearances and “evidence” to the reality behind them.
I am not sure that those who “appear” happy all around you are in the state of bliss you think they are. Perhaps they have found ways of not thinking about their unhappiness or masking it in public.
For myself, that pathetic unhappiness is my sharing in what it means to be fully human within a human existence. There is no way of avoiding it - it is to be faced, but with the grace and love of God within us. Sometimes that will feel like “My God! My God! Why have you abandoned me?”
I suspect everyone is “pathetically unhappy” because that is the state that humanity is in but it is the state from which we can be saved. However, it is also the state that Jesus calls us to bear with until all things are made new.
Much of what passes as human endeavor on this planet is really a shield against that unhappiness so as not to have to face it by the distractions and ease of temporal pursuits.
We will be saved by the love of God - that is the hope which is one of the supernatural virtues given to us by God. Faith and love are the other two supernatural virtues or powers that help us rise above and not merely turn away from that “pathetically unhappy” state.
All things will truly be made new and must be precisely because the state of the world - the human social order - does not answer our deepest needs. Relying on “the world” to answer those needs may cover over or mask the unhappy state and perhaps makes it seem a little less pathetic or tolerable, but it won’t remove the unhappiness. That will only happen when the life of Christ is fully realized in us and we perfectly see God - the Beatific Vision.
Have you read Therese of Liseaux’s Story of a Soul? It could be helpful to you at this point in your life.
storyofasoul.com
- Status