Is it enough - to be good?

[Bruno_Schulz]

**To “be good” includes without limitation, love towards others.
Now, I wonder as I expressed in other threads too, why US-Americans literally “fear” of closer – non anonymous contacts to others – see also here, where hardly you find real names, hardly get into contact to others writing here; even though all of them are Christians.

A US friend told me, that this might be the origin of the word of “the ugly American”.
No, it’s not. This ugly word origins in the atomic bombs of Hiroshima+Nagasaki, continuous production of world-wide banned Spread-bombs (a big bomb consisting hundreds of small bombs baldy injuring innocent) or the continuous air and environment pollution – and it originates in the Islam-world. That’s why US-friends of ours never fly with Pakistan airlines or any MoslemAirline out of fear of hate against them.

Still, there’s a lot of difference between Europeans and Americans. I was going to point them out, but don’t find a suiting thread for it. Nor do I know if it fits in this Forum at all. On the other hand, every aspect of worldly life – if we like it or not - is in reference to God. Every second of our life is.
**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Fire and Brimstone I can get anywhere. There is too much of that going on in this world from all denominations, and all religions. For centuries the religious have been killing each other over their seemingly Divine judgements they make on one another. History has proven time and again the futility of this way.

Hi Jon,
**
Some things to think about!

“It would be unbelievable, if history did not record the tragic fact, that men have gone to war and cut each other’s throats because they could not agree as to what was to become of them after their throats were cut.” - Walter P. Stacy

“When the Devil quotes Scriptures, it’s not, really, to deceive,
but simply that the masses are so ignorant of theology that somebody has to teach them the elementary texts before he can seduce them.”

“All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince.” - Plato

Feel better? It has been going on since the first “religion” whatever that was1

Jesus loves you and so does God! Pray and pray some more.
The answer is pray whatever the question may be.

God Bless
.**

 

[po18guy]

John the Baptist was rather fire and brimstone, as was Christ “Do not think I have come to bring peace, but a sword!” It is exactly when the fire and brimstone are dampened down for social acceptability that we become “lukewarm” and are then spewed out of His mouth!

Ghandi fooled himself by judging Christianity superficially by its sinful members. A fine man of peace he might have been, who rejected Christ. Was it good enough for Ghandi to be good? Why take the chance? It took an Albanian nun to give hope to the poorest of India’s poor and the sickest of its sick. And she did not think that was good enough.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

John the Baptist was rather fire and brimstone, as was Christ “Do not think I have come to bring peace, but a sword!” It is exactly when the fire and brimstone are dampened down for social acceptability that we become “lukewarm” and are then spewed out of His mouth!

Exactly!

Ghandi fooled himself by judging Christianity superficially by its sinful members. A fine man of peace he might have been, who rejected Christ. Was it good enough for Ghandi to be good?
**
Only God knows! **

Why take the chance?



It took an Albanian nun to give hope to the poorest of India’s poor and the sickest of its sick. And she did not think that was good enough.

**“The thing that makes me the saddest is watching people receive communion in the hand.” – Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta (As reported by Fr. George Rutler in 1989 when he asked her, “What do you think is the worst problem in the world today?” )

From the day I read that, I vowed never to take the host in my hands again. She was a saint!

God Bless **

 

[jon27]

Living a life like Gandhi examples the core of Christianity and the Teachings of Jesus. Gandhi did not reject Jesus Christ, however was perplexed by how Christians were slaughtering innocent men women and children in his country. Again, slaughtering for the benefit of holding on to an Empire. Gandhi lived amongst the poor, teaching peace and humility was the only way his people should live. They died willingly by following the way of peace.

Now I ask, in whom was the Almighty God present…the Christian Soldiers who ordered the massacre of the innocent, or the young children who took a 50 caliber in the head!

All of us should examine ourselves, do we as Catholics live the life
Gandhi lived? Are you willing to wear a simple cloak for clothes, live with the poor, be imprisoned for your beliefs? Do you fast and pray for the most part of your day as he did! We sit comfortably at our computers in our warm clothes, probably after eating a hot meal and judge the lives of one that gave up all and followed the very message of Christ , and lived it by example! The last words uttered from Gandhis lips after being shot was “My God”

STUDY MORE THE GOSPEL OF JOHN !!!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**
Hi Jon, **

Living a life like Gandhi examples the core of Christianity and the Teachings of Jesus.

He is one of my personal heros.

Gandhi did not reject Jesus Christ, however was perplexed by how Christians were slaughtering innocent men women and children in his country.

More people have been murdered in the named of Jesus than anything else. Do you actually think it was Jesus that was directing the killing most times? or the devil?

Again, slaughtering for the benefit of holding on to an Empire. Gandhi lived amongst the poor, teaching peace and humility was the only way his people should live. They died willingly by following the way of peace.

The wolfs always kill the lambs without the shephard to guard them!

Now I ask, in whom was the Almighty God present…the Christian Soldiers who ordered the massacre of the innocent, or the young children who took a 50 caliber in the head!

Does it have to be either/or ? Why not both? I was a soldier, I killed 54 people! I never did a “unjust” murder like you described. Maybe the other soldiers didn’t also. Thank God for God, let Him decide. All we can do is pray for all their souls!

All of us should examine ourselves, do we as Catholics live the life
Gandhi lived?

**Does anyone ? Him and Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta were special people. **

Are you willing to wear a simple cloak for clothes, live with the poor, be imprisoned for your beliefs?

No, Yes, Yes

Do you fast and pray for the most part of your day as he did!

No, Do you?

We sit comfortably at our computers in our warm clothes,

You wear clothes when you are at the computer? Oh, maybe I shouldn’t have asked that!

probably after eating a hot meal and judge the lives of one that gave up all and followed the very message of Christ ,

Judging is left to God and you it seems

and lived it by example! The last words uttered from Gandhis lips after being shot was “My God”

Yea, it moust have hurt a lot. I remember when I was shot three times one hit me in the chest, I wish I would have said that but I think it was a Profanity.

STUDY MORE THE GOSPEL OF JOHN !!!
**
DON"T YELL AT ME!!!**

 

[jon27]

I am not judging anyone sir…only defending a good man.

I unfortunatley do not have the strength to fast & pray all day, or perhaps the courage to be imprisoned for my beliefs.I where regular clothes, not having the selflessness to abandon them. The illustration was certainly not pertaining to me. I, for one am not the spiritual man Gandhi was, I can only aspire to be. However I do know the closer I get to his kind of spirituality the closer I get to The Trinity.

By the way I am not yelling at you

 

[po18guy]

Living a life like Gandhi examples the core of Christianity and the Teachings of Jesus. Gandhi did not reject Jesus Christ, however was perplexed by how Christians were slaughtering innocent men women and children in his country. Again, slaughtering for the benefit of holding on to an Empire. Gandhi lived amongst the poor, teaching peace and humility was the only way his people should live. They died willingly by following the way of peace.

Now I ask, in whom was the Almighty God present…the Christian Soldiers who ordered the massacre of the innocent, or the young children who took a 50 caliber in the head!

All of us should examine ourselves, do we as Catholics live the life
Gandhi lived? Are you willing to wear a simple cloak for clothes, live with the poor, be imprisoned for your beliefs? Do you fast and pray for the most part of your day as he did! We sit comfortably at our computers in our warm clothes, probably after eating a hot meal and judge the lives of one that gave up all and followed the very message of Christ , and lived it by example! The last words uttered from Gandhis lips after being shot was “My God”

STUDY MORE THE GOSPEL OF JOHN !!!

We can only pray that it was the one, true God of which he spoke. Ghandi did many good works throughout his life, but the point of this thread is, was it enough? Knowing Christ and then rejecting Him, was it enough to simply be good and do good? History and scripture point toward the insufficiency of good works. But, to reject Christ, not out of knowledge of Him, but of knowledge of his sinful followers points in the direction of “no”. God in Christ alone judges, but we have been given the way to life and are commanded to follow it.

Instead of examining the lives of peaceful non-Christians, the Christian benefits most from examining the lives of the Saints. They are our role models and their recognition by the Church is our hall of fame. Few of the Saints, as heroic as they were in this life, felt as though they had done enough. That is the humility associated with a Saint - modeled after Christ’s own humility.

We, who believe in and follow Christ, have clear cut commands to obey, and to witness to others by the exemplary lives we lead. We are called to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Tall order. Thank the Lord that we have reconciliation.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Again I didn’t get any notice, that here something was posted. Something is rotten in the state of this forums technique.

Jon, you don’t have to protect Ghandi. All the world knows, he was good. As po18guy wrote, that’s not the point.

The question is – is it enough to be good, if at the same time, one denies Jesus Christ, who is the one and only way, life and truth.
**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**Again I didn’t get any notice, that here something was posted. Something is rotten in the state of this forums technique.

Jon, you don’t have to protect Ghandi. All the world knows, he was good. As po18guy wrote, that’s not the point.

The question is – is it enough to be good, if at the same time, one denies Jesus Christ, who is the one and only way, life and truth.
**

Last thing on Ghandi from me. He did believe in Jesus, He just wasn’t a christian because of the example of the Christians.
God judged Him, as it should be. may he rest in peace.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**God Himself asks more from us than to be good. To Moses God said (in 3Mose 19,2) "Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.” And Peter repeated this demand in 1Peter 1:16

Now, most likely none of us is holy. Still, there are many Holies and Saints among us, we never knew, ever we often met them. Might be, even you are holy.
But we shouldn’t worry too much about being holy. When we live in God; that means – when we believe in God, obey His commandments, pay attention to Jesus words, it is enough to be good. And this is easy, for there are but two commandments: Love God and love your neighbour.

Some say: That’s easier said than done. No it’s not! Christians love God already, for if they don’t, they aren’t Christians, as those are not, who do severely wrong.
And loving others? What’s difficult about it; not to deny anyone, to give a smile and nice words to anybody we come across? It all comes back twice.

Of course it’s a delight to meet people who are good. But it’s simply ever so sad, sad when we hear or feel; they deny God.

I know several people who are very nice, good people. But they think “all that Christian stuff is without any contents – without meaning”.
Isn’t it terribly sad to know we will not be with them in heaven, or at least this will be ever so questionable, for they did not acknowledge Jesus, who said in Mt 10,32 Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge Him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

No Christian would ever dare to judge if anyone who was a good person but still didn’t believe, is or is not with God now. But to Christians who actually are Christians, it’s terribly sad and depressing to see whomever living without God. And so sad it must be to Jesus, to God Himself, who did incredibly much to save everyone who believes in God.

Can anyone be good as a whole, in all his being, when he denies God; or is his person simply partly good, for his soul is the real “he”. Not his body. And his soul is not with God.

**

 

[jon27]

**Again I didn’t get any notice, that here something was posted. Something is rotten in the state of this forums technique.

Jon, you don’t have to protect Ghandi. All the world knows, he was good. As po18guy wrote, that’s not the point.

The question is – is it enough to be good, if at the same time, one denies Jesus Christ, who is the one and only way, life and truth.
**

If you believe God as being pure good then you must consider that all expressions of humanly goodness must stem from God.
No matter who you are, when conveying an act of charity, or showing loving kindness to another,it is God who is doing the act through you. The most profound atheist when doing a good deed has God expressing himself through that person… he is simply not aware of it. There is only One Eternal Good, this is God. Christ asked his apostles"why do you call me good" and continued to tell them “Only My Father in Heaven is Good”.
A perfect example of Jesus humbling even himself, insisting the goodness that shone from Him was impossible without The Father.

When living a life absent of evil you abide in Gods goodness. He has Blessed that individual, regardless of what theological background he or she comes from.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

The most profound atheist when doing a good deed has God expressing himself through that person… he is simply not aware of it.

When living a life absent of evil you abide in Gods goodness. He has Blessed that individual, regardless of what theological background he or she comes from.

Goodness is the best we can do if we don’t consciously know of Jesus.

But once we do know of Jesus, goodness is no longer enough.

Jesus, if known of, demands assent, and if we don’t assent, we have chosen hell if persisted in til death.

Agreed?

:shamrock2:

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Jesus, if known of, demands assent, and if we don’t assent, we have chosen hell if persisted in til death.

Agreed?

Many know about Jesus and about The Gospel and have never been gifted with the Gift of Faith and we cannot judge - it is impossible. Only God knows if a soul is destined for Heaven or Hell. We can state that mortal sin will condemn a person to Hell but exactly who is in the state of mortal sin and who is not as to an assured fact and thus destined for Hell only God can know for absolutely sure. There may well be a subjective element to mortal sin that is not available to the outsider, or not available to the one that is in an objective position, and a person in their own case may well personally fear Hell and that they are in a state of mortal sin and loss of God’s friendship. This is totally different from accusing another of being in mortal sin and of having lost God’s friendship.

The closer a soul draws to God, or is drawn rather - the more convinced of their sinfulness as they are drawn into the Presence of Absolute Goodness…and this is why probably so many of our saints were convinced of their total worthlessness. The closer one is drawn to God, the more one realizes just how desperately we are all, without exemption, in need of a gratuitious act of God’s Mercy for salvation. This is our Faith and the Faith and trust we need in God and His Goodness.

Barb

 

[po18guy]

If it is enough to be good, then the Lord God sent His Son to suffer and die for nothing.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

If it is enough to be good, then the Lord God sent His Son to suffer and die for nothing.

**precisely that is the point. Deo gratias!

And let’s thank God for this every day, and not say
“that’s not true, Jesus was not God. I don’t believe it.”
For this would be an incredible insult and affront against God (which of course is not being good)**

 

[BarbaraTherese]

If it is enough to be good, then the Lord God sent His Son to suffer and die for nothing.

Your statement above does not make sense, since if Jesus had not suffered and died then Heaven would be open to no one.

All salvation is through Christ who has suffered and died that all men may be saved. Certainly Faith in The Lord asks that Faith reveal itself through good works or as St. James said “Faith without works is dead”.

Will a person who has lived a good life be consigned to Hell forever ? I think probably reason, common sense and the logic with which God has gifted us set into the whole context of Scripture answers this question. As well as what St. Augustine wrote and what Pope Benedict had to say…and probably heaps of other reliable sources in Catholicism also.
ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/b16gnaud113005.htm
General Audience of The Holy Father 30th November 2005

Commentary Theologian Ilaria Morali
ROME, 15 JAN. 2006 (ZENIT)
ewtn.com/library/Doctrine/zsalvat.HTM

Zenit Interviews:
catholicism.org/zenit-morali.html

.

 

[po18guy]

Your statement above does not make sense, since if Jesus had not suffered and died then Heaven would be open to no one.

I wrote this more for those of vacillating or weak faith. Since we are in a post-Christian world, we must convince seemingly the entire world all over again about Christ’s sacrifice, and Christianity.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

Your statement above does not make sense, since if Jesus had not suffered and died then Heaven would be open to no one.

**This statement of po18guy does make all sense in the world and in heaven! Of course a lot of people came into heaven; see Elijah, Moses, Abraham, Isaak Noah and also the poor in Luke 16:31.

In Mat 22:28 Jesus again speaks of the living in heaven. Not even of those living in heaven, but the ALIVE in heaven.

We, as we besmirched ourselves with guiltiness, of course wouldn’t get into heaven without Jesus salvation, for we where not good enough, as we too often let doubts arise. But we reached the borderline of getting or not getting into heaven (or being just about worthy too) when we solemnly believe in Jesus Christ, but we have to fight and to struggle against ourselves to stay (kind of) worthy. At least worthy enough to be judged and found kind of just about on this borderline to might be receive the grace of forgiveness…
**

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Apologies…but some of the opinions in this thread do not make sense and/or are not in line with Catholic Teaching. There is much interpreting of Scripture according to your own understanding (and a Protestant concept) rather than being in line with Catholic Teaching/

Originally Posted by BarbaraTherese

forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
Your statement above does not make sense, since if Jesus had not suffered and died then Heaven would be open to no one.

Bruno Schulz replies:
This statement of po18guy does make all sense in the world and in heaven! Of course a lot of people came into heaven; see Elijah, Moses, Abraham, Isaak Noah and also the poor in Luke 16:31.

Catholic Catechism:
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm
**633 **Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - *Sheol *in Hebrew or *Hades *in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482

637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him. **

See also these Posts from a thread from Apologetics Forum in 2004:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1111163&postcount=10

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1111600&postcount=14