Is it ok to listen to Dr Taylor Marshall?

[aroosi]

Sorry but as a Catholic I trust the Pope and Dr Marshall really gives this impression of ‘I-know-better-than-the-Pope’ in all his last videos. Why instead of posting almost daily controversial and divisive videos he doesn’t humbly ask to meet Pope Francis privately?

 

[JulianN]

It’s not a guilt trip. I’m genuinely astonished. A few years ago, people who disagreed with Pope Benedict were treated as if they were heretics for not listening to the pope. Now, it’s as if a test of being a good Catholic is to disagree with the Holy Father.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

He’s encouraging us to be like the laity during St. Athanasius’s time, when the laity stood up

In 2019, the laity rarely stand up to wrong politicians, wrong media, wrong public schools, wrong anything secular. Instead there is a tidal wave in the culture to stand up to only
religious authority, (and Trump.)

Laity who challenge pope, bishop, pastor aren’t going against the secular mainstream, that is the secular mainstream in 2019.

I don’t think this is completely accurate.

The people who are most vocal about things in the Church right now are the same ones who have been calling for the excommunication of politicians like Gov Cuomo, Speaker Pelosi, Joe Biden, etc.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

He never suggested she was free to use artificial contraception,

Neither did I say nor imply he did. I stated she is not, as in what is she supposed to do if NFP doesn’t work?

and we don’t know anything about her use of NFP.

That’s correct. We do not. Neither does he by virtue of his being pope know about it either unless she told him and there is no indication that she did.

What he was saying was that there is no requirement for women to have many children in order to be considered good Catholics.

Indeed. And then he went on to compare her to an irresponsible rodent. Is that charitable? We don’t have to pretend that His Holiness is impeccable. If he says something in an uncharitable manner, we are allowed to notice. He did. Publicly.

Particularly if it risks leaving seven children without a mother.

But he doesn’t know that, does he? And that doesn’t excuse the way he insulted her and other Catholics who have large families. If people on the forums don’t get a free pass for being rude, the Holy Father, who is supposed to be an example to us and the whole world certainly shouldn’t be ignored when he does so.

It was not a statement that women couldn’t have large families; it was that they are not required to do so.

It was a very rudely stated opinion. He’s always very careful not to be rude to atheists and pagans but seems to find it more difficult when addressing those rigid, neo-Palagian Catholics who do all they can to please God. But after all, who is he to judge?

And it’s astonishing to me how many people feel free to question virtually everything the pope says.

We’re free to question His Holiness on anything, even matters of faith and morals, so long as we submit our wills to his decrees in such matters. I certainly have the right to question why he would be so rude to a woman who was being faithful to her vocation.

Often, they are the same people who would have labelled people who questioned Pope Benedict as ‘cafeteria Catholics.’

Are they? Did His Holiness, Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI also malign faithful Catholics to the press? I’d gladly take issue with him if he did so.

 

[GLam1761]

We should understand what’s at stake here, not just attacks
on the Clergy, (Bishops in general[cover-up], Cardinals[Pope
(E) Benedict XVI, for one] and the Pope[Francis]) It is on the
Church and therefore it’s Head Jesus Christ, is called into
question, if the whole Body is ill, isn’t the head also ill since
it is an important part of the Body? It’s what the Scripture
says, “just as the sufferings of Christ flows over into our
lives…” 2 Cor. 1:5 We should ADMIT that the Church has it’s
flaws, but in the Eyes of Christ “so also thru [Him] our comfort
overflows!” Christ is anxiously looking for to “present to [the
World] the Church in all her glory”

 

[MagdalenaRita]

He has a problem with the NO and has told his listeners/viewers to do whatever they can to abandon it and bring back the traditional Latin Mass.

We’ve been through this before though.

Just felt it needs to be clear he wasn’t saying the NO is invalid or that if you attend the NO you are not Catholic or not a good Catholic or not as Catholic as those who attend the EF but that he believes that the EF form of the Mass is more beautiful. Many people do feel that way. I do myself. I think it also should be clear when saying that he says to abandon the OF (not sure if those are his words) that he is not saying to abandon going to Mass.

Also, as Dr. Marshall’s guest Eric Sammons said today for a traditional Catholic the TLM is the basis for traditional spirituality and if as a traditional Catholic one can attend a TLM they should. This would also be why Dr Marshall feels the way he does about the TLM and why he encourages traditional Catholics to attend the TLM.

 

[commenter]

In 2019, the laity rarely stand up to wrong politicians, wrong media, wrong public schools, wrong anything secular. Instead there is a tidal wave in the culture to stand up to only
religious authority, (and Trump.)

Laity who challenge pope, bishop, pastor aren’t going against the secular mainstream, that is the secular mainstream in 2019.

Actually the most vocal laity Willing to “stand up” to the bishops are Cuomo, Pelosi, Biden etc, along
National Catholic Reporter, etc.

In effect, Pelosi, Commonweal, Call to Action, Catholics for Choice, are exercising independent lay ministries, calling on the bishops for reform. They may well have brought up the Athanasius analogy, applying it to themselves.

My anti Catholic daily paper has “stood up” to Catholic Church leaders far more than orthodox laity, who they urge to follow them. Some do.

 

[JimmyDFG]

What jaded him (and what has Jaded MANY Catholics) is/was McCarrick. The fact that McCarrick was able to become a Cardinal with all the rumors going around New Jersey is dumb founding.

The McCarrick situation caused Dr. Marshall to consider the things that Michael Voris & Church Militant have been saying for years now.

And the more Marshall looked into the McCarrick situation, the more jaded he got.

To many Catholics, the McCarrick situation is WORSE than the Child Sex Abuse because it’s proof of a sinister cover up vs a naive cover up.

So people can go around blaming Dr. Marshall, etc.; but let’s not forget the reason Dr. Marshall has left the mainstream: he is a victim of the McCarrick scandal.

Are you trying to say he became so jaded by McCarrick that it drove him to criticized the Novus Ordo Mass as being a liturgical failure. The only way its going to be fixed is for us to “choose the original and traditional Catholicism”?

Its a fact that the Catholic Church produces both saints and sinners, and she is also staffed by both saints and sinners among her teachers. And the sinners include clergy as well as laity.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Are you trying to say he became so jaded by McCarrick that it drove him to criticized the Novus Ordo

I am pretty sure he was attending the EF long before McCarrick. If I remember right it started with an EM wearing Elmo shirts while distributing the Real Presence at the OF.

I believe the McCarrick scandal has caused him, as it has many others, to look closer at the crisis in the Church and desire a return to more traditional Catholicism.

Its a fact that the Catholic Church produces both saints and sinners, and she is also staffed by both saints and sinners among her teachers. And the sinners include clergy as well as laity.

Very true.

 

[Donkey]

Kairos

The Church’s mission is independent of circumstances.

The mission to preach Christ’s message is independent of circumstances. Whether announcement of divinely revealed truth is easy, whether preaching the Gospel provokes persecution of the Church or losses of great advantages are matters that should not influence its apostolate. Page 75 Trojan Horse in the City of God

Dr. Taylor Marshall and others like him are part of The Body the Church. They have an important message and they pay a high cost for speaking out. No one does what they are doing for money, fame or to feel good. I feel their pain and now pray for them and their families.

 

[JimmyDFG]

If I remember right it started with an EM wearing Elmo shirts while distributing the Real Presence at the OF.

If a lay Eucharistic minister is wearing an Elmo shirt, its disrespectful, but this painting the entire Novus Ordo Mass with the same brush. Eucharistic ministers that I’ve seen all wore respectful clothing.

I believe the McCarrick scandal has caused him, as it has many others, to look closer at the crisis in the Church and desire a return to more traditional Catholicism.

And what will returning to a more traditional Catholicism do?
Sadly sexual abuse is widespread throughout our society and in all different religions, even Protestantism. I believe going back to a traditional view is not going to solve crimes like McCarrick from happening

Divine providence always kept the magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church, pure despite the sins of the teachers. Abuses within the Church do not invalidate the Novus Ordo Mass. It was wrong for Mr. Taylor Marshall to say “choose the original and traditional Catholicism” because it’s leaving it open for those to think that there is something wrong with the “New” or Pauline Mass

 

[thrasher59]

I have no clue who he is, or others that y’all mention. I just listen to the sermons of Fulton Sheen.

 

[Joe_5859]

Good idea. Thinking I could mark the binding with a signaling caution.

I had a friend who would put those little orange circle stickers (like for pricing garage sale items) on the binder and write the word “BAD” on it. I just keep them in a separate place.

Back in the day, Catholics United for the Faith was a place you could contact if you wanted to know a bit more background on a particular author or theologian. I’m not sure they offer that service anymore, though.

Where I used to live, I had a friend who was great for that. You could practically just tell him the publication date and publisher and he could tell you how good (or bad) the book would be.

 

[Joe_5859]

A few years ago, people who disagreed with Pope Benedict were treated as if they were heretics for not listening to the pope. Now, it’s as if a test of being a good Catholic is to disagree with the Holy Father.

Yeah, that doesn’t sit well with me, either. I don’t know if it’s sad or clarifying to see that happen with so many Catholic writers and speakers.

Not that any pope is beyond criticism. There is a place for that. But when a particular Catholic talking head is in the news on a regular basis for criticizing the pope, it makes me want to avoid them.

By way of contrast, look at someone like Dr. Scott Hahn. Do you ever see him criticizing the pope? Criticizing bishops? Nope. He’s just doing his thing helping people understand the Bible and the Catholic faith.

I’d rather spend my time reading his books that are far more spiritually enriching and intellectually edifying than listening to those who constantly go on and on about how dire things are for the Church. Things are always dire. And Christ is always with us.

 

[commenter]

Back in the day, Catholics United for the Faith was a place you could contact if you wanted to know a bit more background on a particular author or theologian. I’m not sure they offer that service anymore, though.

They are still around. Check out various resources.
Cuf.org

 

[commenter]

Catholics United for the Faith, Catholic Answers, The American Chesterton Society, Fr. Mitch Pacwa, Scott Hahn, and countless other ministries in union with the Church are walking the narrow path of orthodox Catholicism. They avoid sliding either into liberalism or 'tradism".

By remaining in union with the Church, they get guidance still available from the Church, and can facilitate actual positive actions.

Those who slid out of orthodoxy, not in union with the Church, whether it be National Catholic Reporter or Dr Marshall, facilitate no positive actions by anyone.

 

[phil19034]

Actually the most vocal laity Willing to “stand up” to the bishops are Cuomo, Pelosi, Biden etc, along
National Catholic Reporter, etc.

Yes, you are correct with this. However, I do think orthodox Catholics (who have always been quiet) are finally getting frustrated, as they see the Cuomo, Biden’s etc getting away with abortion, etc.

 

[commenter]

commenter:

Actually the most vocal laity Willing to “stand up” to the bishops are Cuomo, Pelosi, Biden etc, along
National Catholic Reporter, etc.

Yes, you are correct with this. However, I do think orthodox Catholics (who have always been quiet) are finally getting frustrated, as they see the Cuomo, Biden’s etc getting away with abortion, etc.

You are right. Orthodox Catholics, including me, are also disturbed by things coming out of Rome; or rather, some good things that ought to be coming, that are lacking.

 

[phil19034]

If a lay Eucharistic minister is wearing an Elmo shirt, its disrespectful, but this painting the entire Novus Ordo Mass with the same brush. Eucharistic ministers that I’ve seen all wore respectful clothing.

He didn’t paint the whole Novus Ordo Mass that way because of that. It just caused him to attend the local Latin Mass more.

He was also an Episcopal Priests and found the the Episcopal services to be more solumn than the Novus Ordo Masses in his area. So when he & his wife found teh local Latin mass, they like it and it fit better with their spirituality.

As I said before, Dr. Marshall actually quit a job at a catholic college because the president says bad things about the Novus Ordo (and that was long after he was attending the latin mass).

His major issue is the crisis in the Church right now (around McCarrick) and the more he investigated Bella Dodd, etc; the more he feels that the Novus Ordo (while totally valid) was written in PART (not entirely) to attract Protestants, but has had lots of drawbacks.

So now, he encourages the Latin Mass. HOWEVER, he does NOT claim the OF is invalid, wrong, etc. Again, he attended on a few weeks ago. But, it’s true that he doesn’t like attending it, and would perfer attending the Latin Mass.

NOTE: The preference is NOT something that people should be attacked for. There are many people who say they cannot stand the Latin Mass, find it cold, etc. Some prefer the Novus Ordo and others prefer the TLM. That’s fine and it’s OK for people to express their preference too.

What’s not OK is saying that one is invalid.

God Bless

 

[pnewton]

as they see the Cuomo, Biden’s etc getting away with abortion, etc.

They had abortions? I did not even know they were pregnant.