Is it Possible...a non-Catholic Saint?

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tru_dvotion:
Those who are not baptized will not go to Heaven, and those baptized who have committed mortal sin after their baptism without confessing it in the Sacrament of Penance will not go to Heaven.

No doubt, non-Catholic Christians can get to heaven, but in all probability require lengthy purification in Purgatory. Any other point of view would render the Sacraments redundant so the question would have to be addressed why would Jesus have instituted the Sacraments if they were not important for our salvation?

Not living or dying in the state of grace would render a non Catholic’s sainthood a contradiction. Those we Catholics deem worthy of sainthood, in other words, to be worthy to petition for intercessory prayer would have to have lived exemplary lives on all accounts.

The saints who will wash their garments in the blood of the lamb in St John’s Revelation will be the Catholic martyrs who would have persevered until the end under the most trying of circumstances.

So what is Sanctifying Grace?

We receive Sanctifying Grace at our Baptism.

“**State of **Grace” is the presence of Sanctifying Grace in the soul.

We must be in a **State of **Grace when we die to go to Heaven.

Mortal sin eradicates Sanctifying Grace from the soul.

Since we cannot be baptized again, Christ gave us the Sacrament of Penance to restore Sanctifying Grace to the soul.

The only exception to this is perfect contrition at the moment of death when the Sacrament is not available.

Valid confession requires:

to be sorry for offending God,

to have resolve to not to sin again,

to confess all mortal sins remembered in kind and in number,

to perform the penance imposed.

the priest must say: “I absolve you”,

the priest must be validly ordained,

the priest must have been granted the faculty by his Bishop to hear confessions.

(A priest who does not have this faculty (eg, a laicized priest or a priest of the Society of St Pius X) cannot validly absolve anyone except in danger of death where a priest with the faculty is not available.)

This is deadly serious stuff. Let no one convince you otherwise.
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I respect you rcc beliefs but according to what you have quoted my odds dont look to good. What about confessing your sins one to another[James 5 vs 15 -15.] . I guess that does not apply?
 
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Jenlyn:
I totally agree! That is why Spokenword should join the RCIA program. 😃 Come on Spokenword! :clapping:

I hope you don’t mind the evangilization!

Jen
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Do they have a masters program? 😃
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Do they have a masters program? 😃
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Are you willing to move to Stubenville, Ohio? 😃 I’m sure you can get some degree there. So you have a Bachelor’s in theology? 🤓 (I’ve always wanted to use that picture!) I’m only guessing. Now you can get theology with the correct information! 😉

Seriously, you should look into it. Then you will be one less soul I pray for everyday to come to the Church.

Jen
 
SPOKENWORD said:
I respect you rcc beliefs but according to what you have quoted my odds dont look to good. What about confessing your sins one to another[James 5 vs 15 -15.] . I guess that does not apply?
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Dear Word,

We cannot take parts from the Bible in isolation. The different parts have to work together illuminating, confirming, explaining, expanding and building on one another… this is the only way to arrive at the true meaning of the individual parts. The following is taken from the Seven Sacraments by John Paul II.

****“****PENANCE/CONFESSION

At the first Pentecost, Jesus said to his disciples: “Receive the Holy Spirit. For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained” (Jn. 20,23). These words of our Savior remind us of the fundamental gift of our redemption: the gift of having our sins forgiven and of being reconciled with God. Remission of sin is a completely free and undeserved gift, a newness of life which we could never earn. God grants it to us out of his mercy. As Saint Paul wrote: “It is all God’s work. It was God who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the work of handing on this reconciliation” (2 Cor. 5,18).

There is no sin that cannot be forgiven, if we approach the throne of mercy with humble and contrite hearts. No evil is more powerful than the infinite mercy of God. In becoming man, Jesus entered completely into our human experience, even to the point of suffering the final and most cruel effect of the power of sin—death on a cross. He really became one like us in all things but sin. But evil with all its power did not win. By dying, Christ destroyed our death; by rising, he restored our life; by his wounds we are healed and our sins are forgiven. For this reason, when the Lord appeared to his disciples after the Resurrection, he showed them his hands and his side. He wanted them to see that the victory had been won; to see that he, the risen Christ, had transformed the marks of sin and death into symbols of hope and life.

By the victory of his Cross, Jesus Christ won for us the forgiveness of our sins and reconciliation with God. And it is these gifts that Christ offers us when he gives the Holy Spirit to the Church, for he said to the Apostles: “Receive the Holy Spirit. For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven” (Jn. 20,23). Through the power of the Holy Spirit, the Church continues Christ’s work of reconciling the world to himself.

In every age the Church remains the community of those who have received the reconciliation that was willed by God the Father and achieved through the sacrifice of his beloved Son.

The Church is also by her nature always reconciling, handing on to others the gift that she herself has received, the gift of having been forgiven and made one with God. She does this in many ways, but especially through the sacraments, and in particular through Penance. In this consoling sacrament she leads each of the faithful individually to Christ, and through the Church’s ministry, Christ himself gives forgiveness, strength and mercy. Through this highly personal sacrament, Christ continues to meet the men and women of our time. He restores wholeness where there was division, he communicates light where darkness reigned, and he gives a hope and joy which the world could never give. Through this sacrament the Church proclaims to the world the infinite riches of God’s mercy, that mercy which has broken down barriers which divided us from God and from one another.”
 
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SPOKENWORD:
I respect you rcc beliefs but according to what you have quoted my odds dont look to good. What about confessing your sins one to another[James 5 vs 15 -15.] . I guess that does not apply?
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What are rcc beliefs?

Jen
 
You have to agree Spokenword, with everything that Tru_Devotion said, that you must confess your mortal sins in order to get to heaven. That is the only way there! You’re venial sins will be purged in purgatory. You must go to confession and that is only offered through the Church.

James 5:16 says “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.”

It doesn’t say that your sins are forgiven by God! It simply says that you confess your sins to others, usually to the ones you sin against, and they in return grant you forgiveness, as we grant forgiveness here on earth. i.e. I lied to my mom so I confessed that I lied and asked her forgiveness. I hope that she will pray for me so that I may not fall into the trap of lying again. Then the quote says you may, you may, you may be healed. It doesn’t say you are by God!!!

So I ask you again to join the RCIA program! Learn what the Catholic Church is really about. 😃

Jen
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Your right Jimmy,the odds of you being declared a Saint by the Catholic Church are probably a million to one. :eek:
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I am a Catholic so there is a chance, but only the greatest people are declared to be saints. That does not mean that they are the only ones in Heaven, it just means that they are the only ones we are certain are in Heaven.
 
Chris C.:
Hate to be the killjoy here, but we ought to bear in mind that RR was our first (and only) divorced President and the governor who signed no-fault divorce into law.
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The implication being that only those have never sinned can become saints? That rules out almost all of those canonized, and it certainly rules out all of us.

Will the Catholic Church ever canonize a non-Catholic? No.

Does this mean that only Catholics can be saintly? No.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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Jenlyn:
Are you willing to move to Stubenville, Ohio? 😃 I’m sure you can get some degree there. So you have a Bachelor’s in theology? 🤓 (I’ve always wanted to use that picture!) I’m only guessing. Now you can get theology with the correct information! 😉

Seriously, you should look into it. Then you will be one less soul I pray for everyday to come to the Church.

Jen
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Thanks Jen for keeping me in your prayers but Jesus already lives and dwells in me. I am his body, his hands his feet, his heart,his eyes.I am walking and talking in His Love. But please continue praying for me that I may daily walk in His Grace. Ive been to stubenville,Ive taken a youth group there years ago.Great place where Gods Spirit moves. Seriously, I was a Rcc member for over 35 years. They say once a catholic always a catholic and maybe they are right.Im still on the path towards the kingdom but in my heart I know Jesus is closer to me as He holds my hand. God Bless. 😉
 
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jimmy:
I am a Catholic so there is a chance, but only the greatest people are declared to be saints. That does not mean that they are the only ones in Heaven, it just means that they are the only ones we are certain are in Heaven.
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I agree, but isnt it a great feeling if you were one[Big S] you could go pass Go [Purgatory]. 😃
 
I believe the Martyrs of Uganda were not all Catholic and were cannonized.
 
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Jenlyn:
You have to agree Spokenword, with everything that Tru_Devotion said, that you must confess your mortal sins in order to get to heaven. That is the only way there! You’re venial sins will be purged in purgatory. You must go to confession and that is only offered through the Church.

James 5:16 says “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.”

It doesn’t say that your sins are forgiven by God! It simply says that you confess your sins to others, usually to the ones you sin against, and they in return grant you forgiveness, as we grant forgiveness here on earth. i.e. I lied to my mom so I confessed that I lied and asked her forgiveness. I hope that she will pray for me so that I may not fall into the trap of lying again. Then the quote says you may, you may, you may be healed. It doesn’t say you are by God!!!

So I ask you again to join the RCIA program! Learn what the Catholic Church is really about. 😃

Jen
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Jen ,one of us is not in agreement with Gods Word .Interpretation can be a problem without the help of the Holy Spirit to help us. :confused:
 
mlchance said:
The implication being that only those have never sinned can become saints? That rules out almost all of those canonized, and it certainly rules out all of us.
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Dear Mark,
That has not been implied. What has been said, they lived and died in the state of grace. All we said they confessed their sins to a priest and received absolution for them.
Will the Catholic Church ever canonize a non-Catholic? No.
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I agree.
Does this mean that only Catholics can be saintly? No.
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Agreed, they could have lived extraordinary and exemplary lives. But given they were not in the state of grace during their lives and at the time they died, in other words, had mortal sins on their souls, they could not have been saints by any stretch of the imagination.

It all depends who you call a saint. Some people call all Christians saints. Others refer to the blessed in heaven. I agree there must be non Catholics among the blessed in heaven but they could not have lived as those we call saints during their earthly lives. If they made it to heaven, they would have had to spend a long time in Purgatory.
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Throughout scripture christians we referred to as saints. Those are the same saints that are in the kingdom of heaven. In revelation John mentions these saints. 👍
 
The word Saint has the same etymalogical root as Holy (Latin Sanctum) and it means “set apart for a special purpose”. As members of the Church Militant (those of us still on our earthly pilgramage) are called to be set aside. “If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” (John 15:19) So, we Christians here on earth are saints, becuase we are called to separate ourselves from the worrys of the world. However, not everyone who starts on the earlthy pilgramage, ends in the promised land. Many fall off the path. “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Beware of men; for they will deliver you up to councils, and flog you in their synagogues, and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear testimony before them and the Gentiles. When they deliver you up, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.”

It is these, whom the Church has placed its greatest confidence in KNOWING that they endured to the end, and are now seated in the beatific presence of the Lord Almighty. That is the difference.
 
Sorry Word, I have little time today… I can only ramble now:

The terrible end-time events, the great distress, the perilous last days… the days greatly intensified in the suffering of mankind:

In Matthew 24:9 Jesus foretells: “they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.” This will be a time of “great tribulation” unlike anything the world has ever experienced (verse 21) `Jesus said of the final, end-time generation, “And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved” (verse 22). In other words, the suffering during those last days would be quite unprecedented. The ones persevering to the end, both the living and the martyred at that specific point in time are the ones this passage refers to:

"These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation 7:14)
 
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Apologia100:
The word Saint has the same etymalogical root as Holy (Latin Sanctum) and it means “set apart for a special purpose”. As members of the Church Militant (those of us still on our earthly pilgramage) are called to be set aside. “If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” (John 15:19) So, we Christians here on earth are saints, becuase we are called to separate ourselves from the worrys of the world. However, not everyone who starts on the earlthy pilgramage, ends in the promised land. Many fall off the path. “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Beware of men; for they will deliver you up to councils, and flog you in their synagogues, and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear testimony before them and the Gentiles. When they deliver you up, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.”

It is these, whom the Church has placed its greatest confidence in KNOWING that they endured to the end, and are now seated in the beatific presence of the Lord Almighty. That is the difference.
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Appoligia, Im in agreement. 👍
 
Dear Word,

Apologia is correct in his/her explanation. But have you red it all? What about the following: “So, we Christians here on earth are saints, because we are called to separate ourselves from the worrys of the world. **However, not everyone who starts on the earlthy pilgramage ends in the Promised Land. Many fall off the path.” **(Apologia)

Obviously, what this thread asked and what some of us tried to address is the question: are there non-Catholics among the blessed in heaven or are there non-Catholics who’s earthly lives would warrant sainthood or could the Church even pronounce them to be saints? Those men and women the Catholic Church declares saints do not fit into the broad understanding of holiness or being set aside, as Apologia explained. Our Catholic Saints have overcome all the obstacles and were victorious during their lives on Earth and we are certain they are already among the blessed in heaven. The saints of Revelation will be yet another type of saints; specific to an age and the type of martyrdom that will be required of them.
 
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