Is it Possible...a non-Catholic Saint?

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Jenlyn:
I still hold to my original post. No one can enter heaven with sin on their soul. No one! Unless by the grace of God He allows it. Name a person who God has done this to. I’m curious to know. I also stand by if you are not Catholic you will not go straight to Heaven. There is no possible way for you soul to be completely clean without the sacrament of confession. Venial sins get you to purgatory, mortal sin gets you to hell.

The ultimate goal is heaven, that’s where our saintlyhood really begins. To agrue about being a saint here on earth is pointless. We are saints-in-the-making until the day we die. Remember, we can always stray. To say that a person never sins is ridiculous! Even the Saints sinned on earth. What did they do? They went to confession. We are human and only through the grace of God will we be Saints. We must follow his commandments, Jesus’s teachings and the Catholic teachings passed down through the apostles.

All these harsh words are screaming of pride! Be careful that the devil does not insnare you. Otherwise you will have sin on your soul and will be in need of confession. 😃
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You seem to forget that the Orthodox Churches carry legitimate ordinations and utilize the Sacrament of Reconcilliation. So, therefore, a faithful Orthodox could go straight to Heaven, because they can avail themselves of Baptism, Confirmation (although these happen simultaneously) Eucharist, Matrimony, Reconcilliation, Holy Orders, and Annointing of the Sick. So, what would the impediment be for an Orthodox saint?
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Whats a strawman? Is that a scare tactic,like a scarecrow? :confused:
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Yes, if someone establishes a strawman, all of the crows have to leave the Forum.
 
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Apologia100:
So, you are saying that the ONLY way to get into heaven is to be a baptised, Church going Catholic. Am I correct on that?
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Baptized is a necessary (necessary of means and necessary of precept). It can be either water, blood or desire. and by desire it means:

Council of Trent

The council does not mean by votum a simple desire of receiving baptism or even a resolution to do so. It means by votum an act of perfect charity or contrition, including, at least implicitly, the will to do all things necessary for salvation and thus especially to receive baptism,

Without baptism one can not enter the Catholic Church, thus one can not enter the kingdom of God. (note: Feyenites deny the efficacy of baptism of blood and desire)

Church going Catholic is not a necessary.
 
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Apologia100:
You seem to forget that the Orthodox Churches carry legitimate ordinations and utilize the Sacrament of Reconcilliation. So, therefore, a faithful Orthodox could go straight to Heaven, because they can avail themselves of Baptism, Confirmation (although these happen simultaneously) Eucharist, Matrimony, Reconcilliation, Holy Orders, and Annointing of the Sick. So, what would the impediment be for an Orthodox saint?
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Their sacraments are valid but not effcious and do not benefit for salvation for themselves (it would only benefit to those who have unity with the Holy Catholic Church. So if I’m the one taking sacrament from Orhtodox, I would be benefited)

The 17th Ecumenical Council of Florence - Pope Eugene IV
It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.
Cantate Domino
 
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Apologia100:
You seem to forget that the Orthodox Churches carry legitimate ordinations and utilize the Sacrament of Reconcilliation. So, therefore, a faithful Orthodox could go straight to Heaven, because they can avail themselves of Baptism, Confirmation (although these happen simultaneously) Eucharist, Matrimony, Reconcilliation, Holy Orders, and Annointing of the Sick. So, what would the impediment be for an Orthodox saint?
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😃
 
Though this convo still fits, I am going to start a new thread regarding Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (EENS). It seems to be the direction that this thread is headed.
 
Apologia100 said:
You seem to forget that the Orthodox Churches carry legitimate ordinations and utilize the Sacrament of Reconcilliation. /QUOTE]
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The Orthodox Churches are in schism with Rome, but Apologia is correct: they have retained the valid Sacraments. In fact, if no Catholic priest or Church is available, if we are permitted by the Orthodox (which is the hard part) to partake in the Sacraments, we have dispensation to do so. After I wrote my previous post on the necessity to be in a state of grace at the time of death, I made an omission regarding the Orthodox Church. Hopefully, the schism will be resolved one day, as the Vatican has been making overtures toward both the Orthodox Churches and the SSPX; unfortunately neither the SSPX nor the Orthodox Churches are budging, due to the current push for modernism in the Catholic Church. But do not loose hope, one day we will be one.

As for the nasty bickering, once again it is starting and I may leave from here. We are not supposed to, but sometimes I am wondering what age some people are on this forum…
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The Catechism has the Orthodox Churches under the title “Who belongs in the Catholic Church?” (838) Since this is so, they are then part of the Catholic Church but not part of the Roman Rite, right?
 
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Jenlyn:
The Catechism has the Orthodox Churches under the title “Who belongs in the Catholic Church?” (838) Since this is so, they are then part of the Catholic Church but not part of the Roman Rite, right?
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They’re not part of the Catholic Church.

The ones who are part of the Catholic Church but not part of the Roman Rite is Maronite, Melkite, Byzantine etc Church.
 
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beng:
They’re not part of the Catholic Church.

The ones who are part of the Catholic Church but not part of the Roman Rite is Maronite, Melkite, Byzantine etc Church.
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Beng,

Thanks for the clarification. So, the Orthodox do not have reconciliation in the same respect as the Catholic Church?
 
Beng is correct Jenlyn; they are not just a different rite. The Orthodox does not recognize the Pope as the head of the Church, very much like the SSPX, but for different reasons. That is why we are not allowed to receive communion in the Orthodox Churches except under grave circumstances and we have to seek Episcopal dispensation to do so. The Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church are different from the Orthodox Church. The Eastern Rites are fully united with the Roman Church.
 
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tru_dvotion:
Beng is correct Jenlyn; they are not just a different rite. The Orthodox does not recognize the Pope as the head of the Church, very much like the SSPX, but for different reasons. That is why we are not allowed to receive communion in the Orthodox Churches except under grave circumstances and we have to seek Episcopal dispensation to do so. The Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church are different from the Orthodox Church. The Eastern Rites are fully united with the Roman Church.
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So do the Orthodox churches have the same reconciliation as the Catholic Church? In other words when they go to confession are their sins forgiven as ours are forgiven?
 
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Jenlyn:
So do the Orthodox churches have the same reconciliation as the Catholic Church? In other words when they go to confession are their sins forgiven as ours are forgiven?
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If they’re not invincible ignorant than they would have the sin of schism. It’s a mortal sin. And unless they confess it and determine to not be in schism their confession are nulled.

If they are invincible ignorant then there’s no sin of schism and their sin would be forgiven.
 
Beng, do not forget the Roman responsibility in the schism with the Orthodox Church. For that very reason the Roman Church threads very carefully around the Orthodox schism. I have seen legal documents to support what I was saying earlier. Now I wish I knew… just where?:confused:
 
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I should say not based on my investigating. You must be Catholic. That is the only way to wipe away sin. So, I still stand by my original post.
 
If it were possible for a non-catholic to be a saint, it would probably be Billy Graham. He is a good, holy and inspiring man.
 
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davy39:
If it were possible for a non-catholic to be a saint, it would probably be Billy Graham. He is a good, holy and inspiring man.
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He does appear to strong love of God. But are his sins forgiven? Is his soul clean? Does he have any mortal sin?

He may have a good heart but a clean soul is what gets you to heaven. Either through purgatory or confession here on earth. Mortal sinners go straight to hell.
 
Not just that. Of all people… one who has spent a lifetime with a Bible in his hands not recognizing where it’s at… is it not sad after all that he remains a Protestant? One wonders what a lifetime of dedication to an inferior cause is worth. If anything… he has done considerable damage to the Catholic Church… he took some and he corrupted some. Sainthood? Not likely.
 
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tru_dvotion:
Not just that. Of all people… one who has spent a lifetime with a Bible in his hands not recognizing where it’s at… is it not sad after all that he remains a Protestant? One wonders what a lifetime of dedication to an inferior cause is worth. If anything… he has done considerable damage to the Catholic Church… he took some and he corrupted some. Sainthood? Not likely.
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Tru, How many souls have you brought to Jesus Christ? There are those who profess to be christian but it action that counts. To many pewers and not enough doers. 👍
 
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