Is it wrong that I only date virgins?

[EasterJoy]

I don’t think that anyone has said that it’s wrong or immoral to have the “standard” that he does. Even the people who have questioned the wisdom or maturity behind the preference have been sure to state that he is free to date or not as he wishes.

However, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to point out how this might not be the best system. (Just because he’s free to make the choice doesn’t mean it’s the wisest one.) The OP is 20. Between the all of the people who have posted on this thread there have to be at least three centuries of wisdom and experience posted in response. It is valuable for younger people who are just starting out to hear the perspectives of people who have already walked that path and have more insights.

Frankly, a lot of good issues have been raised. For example: it seems he values virginity above chastity, he might be excluding someone that god is calling him to be with, he’s prying into things that aren’t his business, and the fact that his issues seem to revolve around his own insecurities and fears.

While I think that he has a right to have his position, and that people ready for marriage could have that standard, I think that it is at least a red flag. People who are truly ready for marriage tend to be better at keeping the past in perspective, are able to be secure in their romantic relationship, don’t project their own insecurities on to others, etc. All of this concern about “baggage” also reveals a less mature state of mind. So-called “baggage” is a concern, but sexual baggage is just the least of it. Over the course of the next 10 years his life will unfold, as will the lives of those around him. He will see what baggage from past child abuse, health problems, any of the many mistakes that people make in their late teens/early 20’s/mid 20’s, credit card and student loan debt, unemployment, and so many other things looks like. Those are all things that adults deal with, and they are all things that people entering into marriage burden each other with, and all of them are more difficult and more serious than a years-ago, repented-from sexual past. If he can’t handle the latter, I have my doubts about his ability to handle everything listed in the former.

If you talk to couples in which both were virgins when they married, they tend to be happy with their success at finding each other. That is experience that says this is not a red flag: that is, that people with his sexual history do fine with the same restrictions he has. There are virgins who post here who despair of finding another virgin to marry, but since he’s only 20, I think he can cross that bridge if he comes to it. He’s not condemning himself to a life of unwanted bachelorhood.

He is not prying into anything that is not his business by asking for a sexual history and inquiring about sexual attitudes. Secular people (and very sexually active people included) do it all of the time! When you contemplate marriage, your prospective spouse’s sexual history is your business, just as their financial history and academic history and everything else is your business, if it is important to you. It is not for you to be judgmental about it, of course someone who does not want to disclose these things is free to wait it out to find someone who won’t ask, but it is the place of those who marry to decide what is and is not negotiable and what information needs to be disclosed in order to make an informed decision.

I don’t think at all that it is a red flag that he feels this way. If I said I didn’t want to marry someone who had to declare bankruptcy, who would bat an eye over it? Would I be passing over some financially dependable persons? I’m sure I would. I would also not lie awake wondering whether this person were going to fall off the wagon and go on another spending spree. It is like that with every sort of intemperance that we might fall into. It is possible to repent and never fall again, but there are some people who aren’t going to take that chance on us. That does not mean that they are not ready for marriage, not any more than it is a red flag that someone says, “So I have a past–if you’re a grown-up, you can deal with it” or “I am not getting into the details of my sexual past. If you won’t marry me if I have experiences I won’t talk about, I guess you’ll need to keep looking.” No, those are all separate ways of looking at the issue, and there are happily married people that take each of those three views and more.

I will agree on this: If we are too adamant about a list we have on paper, we will probably exclude prospects that might have things to offer that no one who can satisfy our whole list is likely to do. That is the trade-off he makes, yes. The longer your list, the more people you summarily exclude. Still, virginity in the partner will make the short list of many people who have maintained their virginity themselves. They tend to marry other virgins and the couples tend to be happy with that arrangement. It has a very good history of working out, so that speaks against his prejudice being a “red flag.”

Either way, if he feels strongly about this, I wouldn’t want to get too serious about him before discovering it. It is very personal information to just ask of anyone, but someone with a very different opinion will want to cut it off right there, while someone with a similar opinion will probably take his seriousness on the issue as an extremely good sign. I think it is a good idea that he disclose this before getting serious with someone, because holding this sentiment will be a big deal to many women.

 

[Carlj1497]

Wow, a lot of mixed responses. Also, yes I want someone who’s chaste, not someone who just happens to be a virgin (I thought I made that clear). I want them to be a virgin for the right reasons. I have also heard a good number of men who were virgins until marriage but their wives weren’t, and they said that they wished their wife would have waited too. Anyways, thanks for all the responses. I’ve also been dealing with some other issues (for example, how to tell my anti-Catholic dad that I’m currently in RCIA). Anyways, that’s off subject. Long story short, I want to marry a girl who has morals, and who is a chaste virgin. But that;s not all. I also want someone who I can call a friend, someone who I can laugh with, and be myself around. Someone who values God and Religion as much as I do. It’s not like i just want a virgin and that’s it.

 

[DMC12]

I don’t know why I didn’t post this sooner, but I’m pretty sure there’s a personal reason that I only date virgins. Growing up, all my mom told me and my brother was how important it was to save sex for marriage, and how it was just as important to find someone else who was saving it. Well, my brother ended up engaged to a woman who wasn’t a virgin. Soon after their engagement, she started cheating on him with the guy that she lost her virginity to. Then that guy got her pregnant. She told my brother that, even thoguh she loved him (my brother) she would never be able to rid her love of that man. My brother went crazy. I remember when I came into the kitchen one morning, and his arms were covered in blood. He was just sitting there, crying. I saw some broken glass by him, and I saw the cuts in his arms. Now, he is such a mess. He does drugs, he’s on tons of medications, and he’s always upset. Last time I talked to him, he said that he had been attending Satanic rituals. It really, really hurt me to see him like this. So, thinking about it, this probably played a HUGE role in me only wanting to date virgins. That, and the fact that God told us to save that for marriage. I can date a girl who’s stolen. I can date a girl who’s smoked (possibly). But a girl who gave away her gift, a gift meant for a husband, to someone else, well that’s just something I can’t handle. As I’ve said before, I respect nonvirgin girls, I don’t look down on them, I don’t find them gross or repulsive, they’re just not for me. But they shouldn’t worry, because most (if not all) other men really don’t care if a girl’s a virgin. Guess I’m just a little different.

And BTW, most people I know say “Practicing virgin”, meaning “Purposefully avoiding sex outside of marriage”.

you are taking an isolated case and making it a rule, not all the girls who lost their virginity are cheaters, nor they love the man they lost their virginity with. if that is the case look for a girl who hasnt had a crush on anyone, because they might still have feelings for him.

now you on the other post say that you have good reasons to dont date a non virgin, well tell me at least one. one that is not about your insecurities about not being able to please her.

you say that you speak with many people that wishes their wives were virgins, now ask them if honestly they would have not married them if they knew that.

 

[Estevao]

I’m sorry, I don’t fully understand something. The people who think that it’s naive to hold one’s potential spouse to the standard (in deed, not just in word) that sex before marriage is wrong have said numerous times in this thread that OP believes as such out of “fears and insecurities”. I’m not really sure what this means.

Does it mean that OP would not like his spouse to be susceptible to flashbacks and mental affairs with previous lovers who might be more deeply imprinted on her memory thanks to her having subverted the powerful bonding that occurs in sex for selfish pleasure divorced from faithfulness and openess to life?

Does it mean that OP would not like to be subjected to the very real threat of an STD?

Does it mean that OP would not like to jump into the boat of 50% chance of divorce that those who do not wait for marriage are in?

Are these what people have meant by saying “insecurities”? If this is not so could you please be more specific on what you mean by OP’s “insecurities”?

I guess you could call these “fears and insecurities”, but that would be like how I’m full of “fears and insecurities” when I look both ways when crossing the street because I don’t want to be hit by a truck. I mean, while objectively judging that running red lights is wrong, I don’t “hate” or “look-down” on the PEOPLE that run red lights, but I don’t want to be hit with the ill-effects that happen when people do run red lights. Same with those who fornicate.

 

[mdgspencer]

Of course you are right if the person both sought forgiveness from God and changed their attitudes. But you can’t assume that both occurred. Personally I would think a woman could be a very good wife if both changed, if she fell. Still, the reasons people use to marry others can be more complicated than it may seem.
At the risk of derailing this thread, I don’t think it is safe to assume Saint Francis was not a virgin, though this seems a matter unimportant to this thread.

I see God nowhere there. I only see you are afraid.

people took wrong desision, God said “Forgive our trespasses as we forgive our trespassers” meaning we should forgive others if we want to be forgiven. Saint Francis was certainly not a virgin, yet i doubt you could say he was a bad man.

 

[_Jenn]

I am a practicing virgin, and I only date girls who are also saving it. Why? Well, to me anyways, a boyfriend-girlfriend relashionship isn’t just for fun. It’s about finding someone who could be a potential spouse, and then seeing if you two are compatible. Now, I’m not mean to girls who have or have had premarital sex. However, I know that sex isn’t just physical, and there is a list of reasons that I don’t want to date someone who’s had sex before. These reasons include:

• The person will most likely still have feelings for others that they have slept with
• There is a chance of catching some sort of STD
• There will be the fear of not “performing” as well as the person’s previous sexual partners
• I would never date a girl who was previously married, so why would I date a girl who was previously “spiritually” married through intercourse?
• The thought of my wife having sex with other men would make me sad
• The thought of being in my wife, where other men have been, is repulsive

Is this wrong? The way I look at it, they’re just personal preferences. Like how I prefer brunettes to blondes, or how I prefer short girls to tall ones. Like I said, I don’t hate women who are promiscuous, I just don’t think they’re wife material for me.

Looking at a few of your reasons, I’d have to say you may just want to date girls who have never gone on a date before. To match up with yours, consider this (assume in my points that these woman are the chaste virgins you desire)

-any woman may still hold some feelings for another man (men) she has dated, heck, she may even be friends with one or more of them!

-the not performing as well could easily apply to things like kissing, planning romantic dates, etc.

-maybe there was no marriage, but what of someone who had a broken engagement? Would she be off limits as well? We all have baggage. If you can’t accept another person’s baggage, you certainly aren’t ready to be considering marriage, IMHO.

 

[Gilly_flower]

The original poster is young and idealistic and there is nothing wrong with that.

He also sounds naive, somewhat alarmed at what growing up entails and probably still lives with his mum.

He is of course entirely free to date whomever he pleases, but I think he may well find that the pool of women he finds acceptable to date is going to be small right now and will get smaller with every passing year. And frankly if enquiring into a potential date’s sexual history is his chat-up line then he is going to find a whole lot of women creeped out and running for the hills.

All I can advise is that he shouldn’t let his brother’s unfortunate experience ruin his own expectations of what a kind, loving relationships should be about- and to lighten up a bit or he’ll be scaring ALL the girls off.

Twenty is a time to be looking around, enjoying life and getting to know friends…So be sensible, but don’t be so dogmatic you pass up a good girl and the chance of a happy family, for your high horse and a cat.

 

[whm]

I think people need to read the whole thread. The OP clarified his position in subsequent posts that he wants to marry a faithful person, who is a virgin because of being faithful to God. There are a lot of posts reacting only to his original post (I too questioned his original post).

I know that if my daughter ever marries, that she finds somebody who has such high moral standards.

 

[joshvanrad]

I’m sorry, I don’t fully understand something. The people who think that it’s naive to hold one’s potential spouse to the standard (in deed, not just in word) that sex before marriage is wrong have said numerous times in this thread that OP believes as such out of “fears and insecurities”. I’m not really sure what this means.

Does it mean that OP would not like his spouse to be susceptible to flashbacks and mental affairs with previous lovers who might be more deeply imprinted on her memory thanks to her having subverted the powerful bonding that occurs in sex for selfish pleasure divorced from faithfulness and openess to life?

Does it mean that OP would not like to be subjected to the very real threat of an STD?

Does it mean that OP would not like to jump into the boat of 50% chance of divorce that those who do not wait for marriage are in?

Are these what people have meant by saying “insecurities”? If this is not so could you please be more specific on what you mean by OP’s “insecurities”?

I guess you could call these “fears and insecurities”, but that would be like how I’m full of “fears and insecurities” when I look both ways when crossing the street because I don’t want to be hit by a truck. I mean, while objectively judging that running red lights is wrong, I don’t “hate” or “look-down” on the PEOPLE that run red lights, but I don’t want to be hit with the ill-effects that happen when people do run red lights. Same with those who fornicate.

This post is just silly.

 

[Gilly_flower]

I was trying to be kind,.
But yes it is.
Utterly.

 

[EasterJoy]

This post is just silly.

The guy who kept control of himself in the same society in which a woman he might marry elected not to, and he is silly to worry that he, like his friends who were virgins and married non-virgins, won’t have reason to wish he’d made a real effort to find someone who had the same gift of continence that he did?

The general gist of the posts I’m seeing here is that maintaining virginity is not a big deal–losing it is an inevitable something like not remembering to return library books, something that virgins and people with perfect records at the library should just “grow up and deal with” seems to be the thought–and that there is a high chance that this guy isn’t going to find a woman who has had the self-control that he did. If he does, it is reasoned, the “pool” will be small, and those women he will date will lack the fine qualities of the girls who didn’t have that kind of self-control–for what reason, I do not know, because self-control in one area is often indicative of a broader habit of self-mastery.

He is a virgin, and maintaining virginity prior to marriage is one of his values. People who marry other people with similar values tend to have the best chance of a successful marriage. People who are wary of marrying people with very different core values–and “I’m not a virgin, grow up and deal with it” is a very different value than his–are not lowering their chances of a happy and long-lasting marriage. If this is one of his core values, then by all means he ought to look for a woman of like mind. Whether he wants to count as a woman of like mind someone who had a brief fall before the regret of learning the error of her ways is up to him.

If the post you refer to is silly, I kind of have to wonder if you haven’t become a tad bit cynical about the worth of virginity or else whether it is realistic to expect a typical person to maintain it prior to marriage. You may have been a virgin yourself when you married. Well, people haven’t changed so much in the last 50 years. Give them a chance. If you weren’t a virgin when you married, then maybe you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Just a thought.

 

[joshvanrad]

The guy who kept control of himself in the same society in which a woman he might marry elected not to, and he is silly to worry that he, like his friends who were virgins and married non-virgins, won’t have reason to wish he’d made a real effort to find someone who had the same gift of continence that he did?

The general gist of the posts I’m seeing here is that maintaining virginity is not a big deal–losing it is an inevitable something like not remembering to return library books, something that virgins and people with perfect records at the library should just “grow up and deal with” seems to be the thought–and that there is a high chance that this guy isn’t going to find a woman who has had the self-control that he did. If he does, it is reasoned, the “pool” will be small, and those women he will date will lack the fine qualities of the girls who didn’t have that kind of self-control–for what reason, I do not know, because self-control in one area is often indicative of a broader habit of self-mastery.

He is a virgin, and maintaining virginity prior to marriage is one of his values. People who marry other people with similar values tend to have the best chance of a successful marriage. People who are wary of marrying people with very different core values–and “I’m not a virgin, grow up and deal with it” is a very different value than his–are not lowering their chances of a happy and long-lasting marriage. If this is one of his core values, then by all means he ought to look for a woman of like mind. Whether he wants to count as a woman of like mind someone who had a brief fall before the regret of learning the error of her ways is up to him.

If the post you refer to is silly, I kind of have to wonder if you haven’t become a tad bit cynical about the worth of virginity or else whether it is realistic to expect a typical person to maintain it prior to marriage. You may have been a virgin yourself when you married. Well, people haven’t changed so much in the last 50 years. Give them a chance. If you weren’t a virgin when you married, then maybe you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Just a thought.

Then you’ve completely misread the “gist of the posts you’re seeing”.

And I don’t much appreciate your veiled attacks on me.

 

[Corki]

I’m sorry, I don’t fully understand something. The people who think that it’s naive to hold one’s potential spouse to the standard (in deed, not just in word) that sex before marriage is wrong have said numerous times in this thread that OP believes as such out of “fears and insecurities”. I’m not really sure what this means.

Does it mean that OP would not like his spouse to be susceptible to flashbacks and mental affairs with previous lovers who might be more deeply imprinted on her memory thanks to her having subverted the powerful bonding that occurs in sex for selfish pleasure divorced from faithfulness and openess to life?

Does it mean that OP would not like to be subjected to the very real threat of an STD?

Does it mean that OP would not like to jump into the boat of 50% chance of divorce that those who do not wait for marriage are in?

Are these what people have meant by saying “insecurities”? If this is not so could you please be more specific on what you mean by OP’s “insecurities”?

I guess you could call these “fears and insecurities”, but that would be like how I’m full of “fears and insecurities” when I look both ways when crossing the street because I don’t want to be hit by a truck. I mean, while objectively judging that running red lights is wrong, I don’t “hate” or “look-down” on the PEOPLE that run red lights, but I don’t want to be hit with the ill-effects that happen when people do run red lights. Same with those who fornicate.

Well said.

 

[Corki]

you are taking an isolated case and making it a rule, not all the girls who lost their virginity are cheaters, nor they love the man they lost their virginity with. if that is the case look for a girl who hasnt had a crush on anyone, because they might still have feelings for him.

Since both fornication and adultery are basically the same sin, all girls who willingly have sex before marriage ARE, in effect, cheaters. Both are grave sins against the 6th Commandment and the only difference is the state of life of the sinner.

now you on the other post say that you have good reasons to dont date a non virgin, well tell me at least one. one that is not about your insecurities about not being able to please her.

I am not the OP but I can give you more than one reason that a man who waits for marriage might want to marry a woman who has made the same commitment.

1. This is a value, a moral point-of-view that they would have in common.
2. If a woman makes a promise not to have sex before marriage and keeps that promise, to God or to herself, she is demonstrating faithfulness – an extremely important quality in a future spouse.
3. A woman (or man) that understands and acts according to the Church’s teaching on sex before marriage is more likely to accept and act according to the Church’s other teachings regarding sex and marriage.

 

[joshvanrad]

Does it mean that OP would not like to jump into the boat of 50% chance of divorce that those who do not wait for marriage are in?

Would you mind giving me the source for this statistic?

Thanks,
Joshua C.

 

[EasterJoy]

Then you’ve completely misread the “gist of the posts you’re seeing”.

And I don’t much appreciate your veiled attacks on me.

Where you are finding veiled attacks? Besides, “This post is just silly” did not much bother with veiling, did it? You didn’t even bother to say what it was you found silly about it, just issued a verdict of complete contempt without further explanation.

I fail to see where I’ve made any veiled attack on you, at any rate. I was responding to people who were trying to scare the OP that he’d be missing out by holding out for another virgin. Where on earth is *that *coming from? From people who married as virgins, but are pessimistic about whether he can? From people who don’t like it that he wouldn’t have chosen them? From people who haven’t married yet and aren’t any more of an authority on how to decide on a spouse than he is? I don’t think we have any trained marriage counselors here telling him to deep-six his values on the fear that he won’t find the best bride if he does.

What is silly is when posters to a thread employ scare tactics with someone–all this “smaller pool” business is a scare tactic warning him that he’s going to miss out on the “right” person by looking for a virgin!–and yet the only one chided for being too afraid is the OP. There is a clear disconnect there, don’t you think?

 

[EasterJoy]

Would you mind giving me the source for this statistic?

Thanks,
Joshua C.

Actually, there are results from the CDC that indicate that girls who lose their virginity early in life (16 or earlier) are significantly more likely to divorce in the first ten years of marriage. This is particularly true if she later characterized her first encounter as “not wanted”, indicating she was pressured into it. Having more sex partners over the course of a lifetime is also a significant risk factor for divorce.

Virgins should be warned, however, that the rate of divorce among those who were virgins when they married is highly correlated with a young age at marriage. If the desire to remain a virgin rushes a person into marriage before they are ready, that leaves them at risk for divorce, too.

If you want a real study, there is this:
Joan R. Kahn, Kathryn A. London, ‘Premarital Sex and the Risk of Divorce’, Journal of Marriage and the Family 53 (1991): 845-855.
jstor.org/discover/10.2307/352992?uid=3739856&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103362094757

Virgins are clearly less likely to divorce than those who are not virgins when they marry. Some researchers look for some other factor to tie it to, but whatever the reason, they keep finding this effect. There are some who argue that those who lose their virginity with the person destined to become their spouse, this effect is greatly diminished, but I think we all know that you’re not married until you’re married. Many are those whose first encounter was with a non-spouse that they assumed would become a spouse. They wind up in the same statistical group with those who have had sex partners other than the person they marry, even though that was not their intention. That is a result worth avoiding, don’t you think?

 

[EasterJoy]

I am not the OP but I can give you more than one reason that a man who waits for marriage might want to marry a woman who has made the same commitment.

1. This is a value, a moral point-of-view that they would have in common.
2. If a woman makes a promise not to have sex before marriage and keeps that promise, to God or to herself, she is demonstrating faithfulness – an extremely important quality in a future spouse.
3. A woman (or man) that understands and acts according to the Church’s teaching on sex before marriage is more likely to accept and act according to the Church’s other teachings regarding sex and marriage.

Yes. Even from a sociological point of view, rather than the moral point of view, people who hold a certain value as very important and worthy of self-sacrifice are more likely to make a good match with someone whose chosen values and chosen level of commitment to those values run along similar lines. Even a person with a very good credit record is wise to look for someone else with a very good credit record, just from the standpoint of finding a more durable match with less unnecessary conflict in it. This is what marriage researchers say: that is, that having very different values puts a couple at higher risk of marital problems.

 

[joshvanrad]

16 and younger is an awfully young age to lose your virginity, and I realize that it does happen, and I’m sure there are great consequences that come about from losing your innocence at such a young age. That is completely undeniable. But I still did not see the statistic that was posted earlier related to 50%- maybe I missed it. But that seems to be the divorce rate of those who cohabitated with one another prior to their marriage, if I’m not mistaken. Misinformation can skew the facts, so I just wanted to make sure that what is being said is coming from an honest and credible source.

I would also agree that avoiding divorce is one of the most important things a married couple can strive for. Statistics aside, I think we can all agree that there are many things that make for a successful lifelong marriage- the most important of which is that the couple remain focused on God. Therefore, wouldn’t it make the most sense to look towards someone who is striving for sainthood and has a firm grasp on their faith, virgin or not?

To reply directly to the title of the thread: No, it is not wrong to date only virgins. But one must discern whether or not they are doing it for the right reasons. You are not your brother, and the women you meet are not the woman he met. Be strong in your chastity and value every single minute of your virginity. But do not become a slave to the fear that potentially dating a non-virgin will lead to the same outcome as your brother.

Since EasterJoy has brought these comments up on whether or not I have grounds to comment on this topic due to my own marital status and virginity, I will simply put that to rest by stating what my status is, and you can make your judgement from there.

I am NOT married. I am NOT a virgin. I lost my virginity when I was 20 due to a lack of understanding of the faith I was raised in.

I will be stepping away from this thread now, as I fear my peace has been shaken and I’d like to avoid becoming heated.

The final thing I will say:
If you are just joining RCIA, great! And maybe that is a good place to bring up this conversation. Or delve into it with a priest. Priests, married or not, are a vast resource of all things related to the faith.

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Nothing inherently wrong with wanting to marry a virgin.

But, not to burst any bubbles or anything, a substantial number of girls who claim to be virgins, aren’t. Also, at least some girls who really are virgins resent a guy who wants to know if they are. I remember a girl I knew who I will always believe was a virgin. The guy she was dating hemmed and hawed around, but made it clear he was wanting to know.

She exploded and said something like “Which is it that you are dating, my virginity or me?” She never went out with him again. He was really upset by that and asked me why she broke off with him. I told him she gave her answer to that better than I ever could.

So, while the hunt for virgins might have a happy ending, it isn’t necessarily always so.