Is lack of the ability to procreate the sole reason homosexual activity is a sin?

[humbleseeker]

And yet humbleseeker assures me that there isn’t a “satisfactory” answer to my question outside of that provided by Catholic authority.

No I did not. You asked,

It would be especially useful to know the root of why it’s deemed sinful.

That was the question I was addressing. I never said that an answer could not be found outside that provided by Catholic authority. I only said any explanation given by the Catholic authority would not be satisfactory to you because you don’t agree with the Church’s authority to bind and loose.

 

[gama232]

A perfect example of taking part of what I wrote to promote an agenda. Violence is never allowed. Had you added that - since I wrote it - you would have no argument.

And “if young enough, sent away to a camp…” By their parents. Not me. So get rid of that argument.

 

[gama232]

That is the whole point of this thread. Some people have only anger and a need to feel justified.

And to repeat, violence is never allowed.

Truth remains truth regardless of those ideas that fight against truth. That is what this life is, or should be, to live according to the truth. Most people understand that to some degree but when they are met by angry groups or individuals, they are called names or simply told to shut up. That individual and group efforts by some homosexuals to get this or that Christian denomination convinced that they’ve got it wrong means that the truth has been compromised.

 

[gama232]

This is the argument from emotion. It is not valid. Gay marriage is not one man and one woman. It is two men or two women. That fact can’t be brushed aside.

Catechism

Chastity and homosexuality

[2357] Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

[2359] Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[o_mlly]

Is homosexual activity a sin simply because two people of the same sex can’t conceive a child? Or is there more to it?

Are there some sexual act that are a (objective) sin?
If homosexual acts are not sinful then what of these acts?

Is pedophilia a sin simply because one to the two people is a child?
Is necrophilia a sin simply because one of the two people is dead?
Is bestiality a sin simply because one of the two actors is not human?

If one or more of the above act is sinful then on what principle is the homosexual act not sinful?

The correct answer is that all unnatural sexual acts are sinful.

 

[gama232]

I was there at the beginning of the Sexual Revolution in the late 1960s. The ‘evangelists’ for it showed up in our neighborhoods to preach sex with anyone. We had no angst. Growing up, we knew most of us would get married and most of us would have kids like our parents and their parents. But that continuity had to be broken by those who hated that. And hate is the right word. That is why a lot of money and effort was put into opening Adult Bookstores in the 1970s that sold graphic porn. Most of it straight, with some gay.

And starting in 1971, they started putting dysfunctional families on TV, and showing one spouse cheating on the other, and sexual situations. And year after year, it got a little worse and a little more worse. Christians and others were slowly, gradually poisoned. The idea of “stigma” over any perverse sexual actual had to disappear – total strangers told you.

Recently, I read this on another forum: “I don’t want to feel ashamed or guilty or sinful ever again.” That is what they wanted. It took decades but here we are. Had it gone from the 1960s to today overnight, they would have lost.

Limits are good. Consistency is good. Teaching your kids how things are supposed to be regarding human sexuality is good. Many Christians are home schooling to make sure their kids understand that and that they understand that the world will try very hard to convince them you’re wrong when they are older.

 

[gama232]

“talking past each other” is an illogical phrase. The first step after definitions is establishing claims and the reasons for those. “talking past each other” is fiction. Understanding each other then establishing the truth.

The truth need not be ‘workable’ if it is the truth. Overcomplicating things is overcomplicating things.

 

[on_the_hill]

My answer: yes.
When you are an ancient civilization struggling for survival, you need population. You need healthy young men and women to reproduce, protect, nurture, and grow your civilization. You can’t allow people to be satisfied in ways that won’t benefit the long term survival of your people.

That’s why.

But primarily you need bodies.

 

[Rau]

Translated: "The ability of gay couples to have their committed relationships recognized by the secular State must not violate the unfixed personally held beliefs about what is rational, by another subset of the population.

That’s a poor translation! It omits any reference to marriage and omits any acknowledgement of the democratic process by which laws are established. Fail.

 

[Rau]

The whole point of dressing or surgically altering themselves is to sync their physical form to their underlying identity.

Identity? Perhaps the better term is “the sense of self they experience internally”. Identity implies some kind of absolute reference.

 

[Rau]

How do you know God did not intend for sexuality to be used in ways other than procreation?

We can try to answer that question by observation and intellect. Eg observe (think about) the male sexual response through to conclusion and ask yourself “what’s going on here”? Does man + man seem to make sense?

Given what’s going on, the possibility of procreation from the sexual act seems to make sense, but evidently it is subject to factors of timing, age, etc.

There is nothing here to conclude one must always intend procreation.

 

[Maximian]

For a Catholic it is sufficient to know that both the Bible and the subsequent teaching of the Church say so.

 

[Freddy]

Is same-sex marriage exactly like heterosexual marriage in every way?

A friend of mine is in a same sex marriage. His appears identical to mine. I think the only difference is that they don’t have children. But then I know married heterosexual couples who don’t as well.

And to head you off at the pass, he and I don’t discuss what we get up to in bed.

 

[Rau]

In other words, promoting your lifestyle is one thing, but deliberately denigrating another’s - especially when that lifestyle is based on love - is reprehensible.

What is lifestyle? Does it follow that all that we might do “for love” is good?

Is it reprehensible for a church to teach that couples in a sexual relationship outside marriage sin?

Is it ok to assert that sin exists?

 

[Freddy]

Scripture has God as its author. That is a fact.

Both Old and New testaments?

 

[Freddy]

WannabeSaint:

Is homosexual activity a sin simply because two people of the same sex can’t conceive a child? Or is there more to it?

Are there some sexual act that are a (objective) sin?
If homosexual acts are not sinful then what of these acts?

Is pedophilia a sin simply because one to the two people is a child?
Is necrophilia a sin simply because one of the two people is dead?
Is bestiality a sin simply because one of the two actors is not human?

Seems like it’s an average of 70 posts.

 

[gama232]

You never discuss marital problems related to sexual activity?

 

[Freddy]

You never discuss marital problems related to sexual activity?

What the…? No, I don’t. What my friends get up to in bed is of no conceren to me. Or to you.

 

[gama232]

Yes. From the Catechism:

II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture . "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69

"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70

106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."71

[107] The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."72

108 Still, the Christian faith is not a “religion of the book.” Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, a word which is “not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living”.73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures."74

 

[gama232]

I’m not talking about specific acts. What would you do if your gay friend said, “I think he’s cheating on me.”? Gay divorce does occur.