Is no life-after-death, something to fear?

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Gorgias said:
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Freddy:
different but equally valid reasons for wanting an afterlife.
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Sure. But the claim under consideration here isn’t “I posit an afterlife merely because I want it”, but rather, “I posit an afterlife merely because I fear the lack of one”.

We can talk about the plausibility of the former claim, but the former claim doesn’t provide justification of the latter claim.
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No it doesn’t. Did someone say it does?
 
As others have mentioned, not all religions. Even Judaism did not make much of life after death. Not sure about the eastern religions.
 
It would certainly be another thread (topic) all together. But, if one ceases to exist, he/she is not separated from anything he/she is simply -not-. They are only separated from the perspective of those left behind (alive). Then the day will come when he/she is not even remembered any longer by anyone on earth. At that time they are not only -not-, but perhaps, never was.

Again, another deep discussion. But all the more evidence in the “nothing to fear” circle. But I would suggest that also, all the more evidence in the depression circle of thinking.

I appreciate all answers / replies. My reason for starting this thread is a personal one . I have relatives who respect Dawkins ( and Rogan’s) perspectives/opinions. They are not athiests, at least yet. I was looking for ammunition to argue against Dawkins / Rogan. SO again, thanks.
 
Mijoy2 said:
When I hear this argument my response (if asked) would be that I don’t necessarily find fear in the proposal
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Nor do I. If they are correct and this human life is the best we can expect, then I will gladly be done with it.
 
If it was proven to me that there is no afterlife, I would still follow Jesus. I don’t need a promised reward in order to do good deeds. I serve God not because I wish to go to Heaven-- I serve Him because He deserves it. Knowing what it’s like to walk and talk with God is enlightenment and it’s the greatest pleasure in this life. Nothing comes close.

God has already given me so much that I don’t need there to be an afterlife to be satisfied. He has given me intimacy with His Son and forgiven me of my sins. God is so good that He is worth following no matter what comes (including a hypothetical annihilation).

I am a little bit afraid of death, to be brutally honest. It’s natural to fear something that’s unknown. If I were to die tomorrow, I would be satisfied knowing that I had an amazing relationship with my Creator and Saviour. 🙂
 
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It’s a great question, and it’s another misconception for atheists to put aside. Fear of death is as old as humanity and archeological evidence reveals how much effort our ancestors put into burial customs, showing some fear of hardship or suffering after death, not in non-existence. Fear of non-existence makes no sense (neither does “optimistic nihilism” by the way, that’s just feel-good word art) and it’s an ignorant anachronism to assert that God is some sort of holding belief to assuage that fear. We just have to think about it to realize that. You actually cannot fear nothingness.

On the other hand, it is rather depressing. Thank God for our faith and hope.
 
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I’m catholic, but I’m afraid I do not experience hope at the thought of everlasting life. As a child, I suffered from scrupulosity. I don’t really anymore, but I never feel like I’m actually good enough, never feel like I do anything to deserve Heaven. I fear Hell, not only for myself but for my loved ones. I was brought up basically believing that pretty much everyone I knew outside my immediate family would go to Hell for missing mass, using contraception, etc.

I know that that is not true now. Nevertheless, the idea of nothingness after death is unfortunately more appealing to me because I gain no comfort or hope from thoughts of an afterlife.

I recognise that this is flawed thinking and something I need to work on. It’s hard though.
 
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A priest I knew (he died recently, please pray for him) used to say that he often heard people confessing that they questioned their faith. He said that he would re-assure them that this was not a sin, on the contrary, it is only by asking questions about our faith that we will find the answer.

In reply to your initial question, I don’t think no life after death is something to fear, but it is a miserable thought.
 
I think it would make sense to be afraid of that, though like you Im not sure if I would be afraid. I havent put much thought into what it would be like to believe that.

But I think it is natural especially based on our primeval fear of the unknown. What could be less understandable or more unknown than the idea of the erasure of your entire being? To not even experience nothing but to just cease to be. We also (typically) have a natural desire to keep “being” so it makes sense on multiple counts.
 
Have you read Pope Benedict XVI’s Spe Salvi? Especially the section titled III. Judgement as a setting for learning and practising hope paragraphs 41–48.
 
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Mijoy2 said:
I am more looking for the believers contemplation of the idea from either a fear, or a theological, or both perspective.
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Naturally fear is going to be a normal experience when contemplating death. But if there is nothing afterwards we are not going to know anything about it. So it would make sense that some would hold the view that it is unreasonable to fear death. But it’s not the fear of death that is the problem, but rather it’s what an eternal death would tell us about life that gives cause for concern. It would mean that our being here in existence has no real objective value. We would be existentially expendable beings, and any value we think we have would be imaginary since we don’t truly have a “place” in existence, but rather we are just temporary actors in the grinding cog-wheels of an ultimately unknowable being. In other-words our being here would be pointless, and all the pain, fighting, struggling, joy, stresses, hopes and perceived successes we had in life would ultimately be meaningless since our humanity, whatever we imagine that to be, would cease to exist. It would be all for nothing.

So it’s not simply a question of fear, as if faith is a crutch we desperately grasp for in the face of the inevitable. Rather it’s fundamentally a question of dignity and value. And more importantly it’s not so much that we imagine for ourselves our own value or dignity, but rather existence gives us the impression and even motivates us to think that our lives and actions actually means something or has a value because we have an emotional response to it. That’s why the idea of ceasing to exist is abhorrent.

It’s an indignity.
 
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YES! This is how I see the -problem- (if you will) of our lives here on this earth terminating into a nothingness.

However the atheist (or some atheists) would not agree. I believe they would argue an inherent value to their flash-in-the-pan existence. I think when taken to it’s logical and ultimate conclusion, anything temporary degrades (like a half-life curve) to ultimate meaningless. But again, the atheist would argue this I think.
 
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Mijoy2 said:
YES! This is how I see the -problem- (if you will) of our lives here on this earth terminating into a nothingness.

However the atheist (or some atheists) would not agree. I believe they would argue an inherent value to their flash-in-the-pan existence. I think when taken to it’s logical and ultimate conclusion, anything temporary degrades (like a half-life curve) to ultimate meaningless. But again, the atheist would argue this I think.
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A lot of people if not most are concerned primarily with creature-comforts or the pleasure of living, even if only for a while. This is until something terrible happens and then they start talking about concepts that transcend the mere pleasuring of oneself such as value and dignity. The problem is, if the atheist is correct, there is no such thing as value or dignity, and hence the nihilistic revelation of how abhorrent such a life really is.

The only reason someone would think there is still some value in such a scenario, is because they have fooled themselves. They have anesthetized themselves. They are living in a dream-world.
 
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Just because the meal you consume today will leave you hungry again tomorrow - it is NOT useless. Just because it is ephemeral, the beauty of a musical piece is not valueless.
 
@Mijoy2

Well, after following this thread, and then going back and reading it again…and then going back and reading it again. I find it astonishing just how unenlightening it is.

Why do I say that?

Because the answers are all over the place. There’s almost no consensus at all, and there usually is, at least a little bit. Often theists tend toward one opinion, and atheists tend toward another. But in this case it’s just a hodge podge of personal opinions. There don’t seem to be any cogent arguments at all.

There isn’t even a consensus on whether we fear death or not. We all fear getting poked in the eye with a sharp stick…but when it comes to being dead, nope…no consensus at all.

Now what does this have to do with the OP? Well since it seems as though not even theists can agree on whether they fear death or not, then it would seem to be very unlikely that the fear of death is a catalyst for belief in God.

I have no idea why people believe in God, it doesn’t seem to make sense. But I don’t think that it’s a fear of death.
 
Bender said:
Just because the meal you consume today will leave you hungry again tomorrow - it is NOT useless. Just because it is ephemeral, the beauty of a musical piece is not valueless.
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Your talking about creature comforts, pleasure. I’m talking about dignity and value. With out true dignity and value our existence here is meaningless and pointless though you might subjectively think that the creature comforts alone are worth it, even if you have to fantasise your own value and dignity to get through it all.

To me, personally, that is delusional behaviour.
 
IWantGod said:
Your talking about creature comforts, pleasure. I’m talking about dignity and value. With out true dignity and value our existence here is meaningless and pointless though you might subjectively think that the creature comforts alone are worth it, even if you have to fantasise your own value and dignity to get through it all.
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It’s not about the creature comforts, it’s about the experience. Good, bad, painful, pleasurable, short, long, or anything inbetween…it’s about the experience of life, not the length or quality of life.
 
lelinator said:
experience
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I’m pretty sure that you wouldn’t want to experience hell for the rest of your life. So you are talking about the positive things you experience, such as the meaning and value that you discover in the events that proceed you, in your relationships, or in your own actions. Even in our suffering we discover meaning and is the very reason we even speak of words like dignity and the value of life. The very things that make life worth it. But if life has meaning, then what reason is there to expect such a nihilistic end to it all.

If the Naturalist is correct, then the meaning and value we discover in life is just a delusion. Objectively speaking there is no such thing as meaning or value or dignity. It’s just synapses firing. Life is nothing more than the pleasure of the taste. There is no true objective value or dignity in this; it just is. But man cannot live by bread alone, and that’s why as soon as somebody challenges the value of their life or their works, they fight. They don’t truly accept the reality of their beliefs.
 
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IWantGod said:
But if life has meaning, then what reason is there to expect such a nihilistic end to it all.

If the Naturalist is correct, then the meaning and value we discover in life is just a delusion. Objectively speaking there is no such thing as meaning or value or dignity. It’s just synapses firing. Life is nothing more than the pleasure of the taste.
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Life is precious precisely because it’s fleeting. It’s eternal life that’s meaningless. In eternal life there’s nothing new…ever. Eternal life is just eternal monotony…hell.

Life isn’t just synapses firing…it’s experiences…it’s love, and pain, and joy, and sorrow, and birth, and death. It’s all of those things. It’s things that you’ve never experienced before. If life is forever, then you will live an eternal hell in which nothing new ever happens.
 
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