Is poor Catechetics the problem?

[PJM]

I’m the same as Ferdie, I’m cradle catholic, had been taught about a very little catholicsm when wanted to received first communion, learnt a very little more when I wanted to receive confirmation, but there’s not many things about catholic faith I get. But Praise The Lord that He has showed me to get more information about catholic faith, read cathechism of the catholic church, read books about many saints,then I found CAF where I have learnt so many things about catholic faith. Now, I know about catholic more than my parents But through prayers and read bible then my faith is getting stronger and my relationship with God get closer.

Dear friends in Christ,

Offering RCIA to all who wish to learn our Catholic Faith is a GREAT idea! thanks. I’m passing it along to our pastor and DRE…

PJM m.c.

 

[PJM]

it’s incorrect to say one hour a week since CC holds mass/readings everyday. CC has the fullness of truth, inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit since Pentecost. btw, have you heard of thomas smith, a former mormon missionary? no offense but pls get his c.d., very powerful testimony.
God bless.

Thank you! BUT…

While Mass is the Most Wounderous gift from God of God to us, it by itself is a at best a very limited vechical for proper and necessary Catechesis. Why?

The super majority of Catholics, for different reasons (some of which include improper in incomplete Catechesis) only attend Holy Mass once per week.

Sunday homilies usually are on the meaning of the readings, more than teaching “what is a Catholic to believe and why.”

I suspect that a major reason for this is a fear of turning off, or offending somebody’s sensebilities. Fewer people in the pews means fewer dollars in the collection basket. I don’t deny the reality of this, Church’s do need our financeal support. But WWJD?

Week day homilies are usually only a very few minutes long so that those who need to get to work can do so. Hardly any real teaching takes place.

The fact that the RCC is indeed guided by the Holy Spirit, thank you Almighty God, does not mean, that everyone is actually listening.

A notable exception to this post is EWTN’s daily Mass. If your not filmiliar with it, seek it out. You’ll be gald that you did.

The fact (in my humble opinion) that 50%-54% of professed catholics (small “c”) voted pro-death is a greater embarssement than the RCC’s priest-abuse scandal. This at-least the third consecutivr Presidential election with a similar per-centage of Pro-death catholic voters. Twelve years and ZERRO improvement, is a huge affirmation of a complete lack of proper catechesis. Why and what can be done about it?

God bless you all!

PJM m.c.

 

[PJM]

The Devil gets into it, in the Catholic Church.

We have parents who want to be their children’s first teachers, but can’t find resources to help either themselves or their children.

Sorry, I have a problem accepting this as a legitiment excuse. With on-line search available even through public libaries, and other search tools available, what parents need if they wish to invest in there kids is available.

Then, they finally get their kids to Mass after a huge battle, and a priest says, “Don’t drag your children to Mass,” in the hearing of the children, who then rebel against their parents and say, “But Father says we are not to be dragged to Mass against our will. Don’t you have respect for your priests?”

As a parent who at one time relocated 12 times in 15 years (job related), I have never heard such a statement. I do not deny it as a real problem, only an uncommon one.

Talk to your priest and see if you can’t get him on your side? If not as a parent you are then obligated to become far more involved in the faith formation of your kids.

I’ll share what my wife and I did.

We taught CCD for ten years, making sure our kids were in our classes. We had our daughter for a few years and our son for six years. They also attended Mass every Sunday and Holy Day, period, even through Highschool. We made sure they attended every CCD class, even when we were not teaching. Outside acticites did not excuse attendance. Our Son was Captain of the BB team for a couple of years. We set the priorities.

They did, and do know the basics of our RC Faith. Do they practice it as adults? NO! Is it our (my wife and my fault? No!)

Satan has never had more influence than he has today. Peer pressure is an Awesome- often Allfull influence, and public schools teach “as religion and logic”, the Fundemental Option. It’s only wrong if I (me only) say that it is wrong." Dear God help us!

So do we give up? No, pray and then pray and sacrficie somemore!

As parents we hold a grave moral obligation to do what we can, certainly by giving and living as Christ expects us too, then we leave it up to a Loving and Merciful God.

God bless you, don’t give up:thumbsup:

PJM m.c.

 

[jmcrae]

Dear friends in Christ,

Offering RCIA to all who wish to learn our Catholic Faith is a GREAT idea! thanks. I’m passing it along to our pastor and DRE…

PJM m.c.

The Period of Catechesis, only, I trust, since they don’t need preparation for Baptism, or for First Confession, Confirmation, or First Holy Communion.

OR, how about a Catechism class that is modelled along the lines of the RCIA Period of Catechesis, that is available to the whole parish, year round? :newidea:

 

[MelanieAnne]

The Period of Catechesis, only, I trust, since they don’t need preparation for Baptism, or for First Confession, Confirmation, or First Holy Communion.

OR, how about a Catechism class that is modelled along the lines of the RCIA Period of Catechesis, that is available to the whole parish, year round? :newidea:

Here’s something all of us can do without adding any new programs ~ volunteer to be a sponsor of an adult who is in RCIA. Our parish is always looking for sponsors and I’m sure there is a regular shortage at other parishes too. This automatically gets you regular catechism classes as well as discussions with your candidate, which in turn will cause you to look more deeply into your faith.

 

[po18guy]

Show me how I quoted it out of context. That’s what it said. Now you tell me it was never dogma.

Why does that argument work for you, when you do not allow the same argument to work when a Mormon tells you “that was never doctrine”? If it is not in our standard works, it is not doctrine.

I have never said anything about your “faith leaving you flat”

You alleged christians have no charity whatsoever.

OK, better to have said you twisted the quote to make it sound as though Catholic teaching is voted on, or easily changeable in some way. It is neither.

As to Catholic vs. Mormon arguments, only one of us has access to the fulness of truth. My foundation in Catholicism is yet growing to maturity. Sadly, the faith you have learned is based on heresy, error and absolute, blind faith in the word of a single man with a very checkered history and a gunshot death in jail (JS).

I mentioned your faith leaving you flat, because you have only a partial truth in the LDS church. And partial truth goes only so far on your journey to eternity. Do you seek the truth?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I was just wondering. For the ex-catholicss here, I mean, not people that were never catholic in the first place.
In one way, it seems like too simple an answer, and in another way, it seems to me to make a lot of sense.

Ive read tons of stories here from ex catholics who now believe they are home. Their criticisms of the Catholic Church vary yet they seem to also echo each other.

Everything from not feeling a ‘‘vibe’’ in the community, to priestly abuse, to too many rules and regulations, to heavens knows what else, and everything in between.

But I can’t help wondering, if these people had been properly, and I mean properly catechised in the beginning, would they have left the church.

I’m beginning to get the idea that the lack of decent catechetics in these peoples lives is what casued them to leave the church so quickly and readily, or, as in some cases, over a period of time.

The catechism is one of the most awesome documents Ive ever read. It is an educational masterpiece in my view, and from it you get all the referreces to scripture, tradition and early church fathers, church documents, saints, and heaven knows everything else, to flesh out any statement, claim, or instruction made in it.

The catechist I am receiving instruction from is awesome, and Father has made time for myself and another woman who are, erm, a bit troublesome outside of class, and gives us tons more stuff to work with and study.

I can’t help but think if cradle catholics and those who left the church had received a good solid basis in catechetics, they would never have the trouble they do with certain scriptural verses, would realise that the mass is not a popularity contest but celebrating the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, for us, The Eucharist is Real, and the ONLY and TOTAL focus should be on HIM and HIM alone, and would never listen to Pastor Nicey Spicey and think WOW! Finally I see the light!!! They would be able to correct his or her misguided attempts from the get go.

Just wondering. Any thoughts? And if that is so, then who needs to start doing the correcting? Churches? Schools? Families?

Bruxilda x

##** I wonder whether it’s possible to treat all problems of this kind as intellectual. I doubt it. To think that people become Catholics for purely intellectual motives is equally odd: people are not disembodied intellects, but human beings. Treat them like excrement, & no amount of intellectualising will keep them - not unless they are great deal better than those who so treat them. **

 

[mfbukowski]

The Period of Catechesis, only, I trust, since they don’t need preparation for Baptism, or for First Confession, Confirmation, or First Holy Communion.

OR, how about a Catechism class that is modelled along the lines of the RCIA Period of Catechesis, that is available to the whole parish, year round? :newidea:

What a great idea! We Mormons and most protestants call this “Sunday School”. What a novel concept!

 

[mfbukowski]

OK, better to have said you twisted the quote to make it sound as though Catholic teaching is voted on, or easily changeable in some way. It is neither.

As to Catholic vs. Mormon arguments, only one of us has access to the fulness of truth. My foundation in Catholicism is yet growing to maturity. Sadly, the faith you have learned is based on heresy, error and absolute, blind faith in the word of a single man with a very checkered history and a gunshot death in jail (JS).

I mentioned your faith leaving you flat, because you have only a partial truth in the LDS church. And partial truth goes only so far on your journey to eternity. Do you seek the truth?

This is absolutely incorrect. I twisted nothing. I quoted the quote accurately. I only have partial truth??? And you can’t explain what happens to unbaptized babies? I hope God has mercy on you and you learn the truth. This is leading no where I won’t reply to you anymore.

 

[seekdatruth]

##** I wonder whether it’s possible to treat all problems of this kind as intellectual. I doubt it. To think that people become Catholics for purely intellectual motives is equally odd: **

Of course it isn’t all intellect, but when someone tries to tell me intellect disproves my belief, well then I have to try and throw it back at them, even when it’s just the voices in my own head doing the nay-saying!
When I first started reverting, after spending over 2 decades believing that intellect refuted the Catholic Church’s teachings, which happened to be set off by my being treated like “excrement”, not by the Church itself, but by misguided individuals, I asked all of these same questions. So far, 100% of my questions have been answered to satisfy my inner Protestant and there’s also an athiest in there sometimes too. Seriously though, if you really seek the Truth, you find it. It’s sad when anyone gets treated like doo doo, but then maybe you should ask yourself what bias you have THEN? It’s easy to say everyone Catholic on here is biased for the CC, and similarly they could accuse non-Catholics, (or post-doo dooed-on Catholics who now fight for the other side.) of the opposite.

 

[MelanieAnne]

This is absolutely incorrect. I twisted nothing. I quoted the quote accurately. I only have partial truth??? And you can’t explain what happens to unbaptized babies?

Unbaptized babies go to heaven.

 

[seekdatruth]

What a great idea! We Mormons and most protestants call this “Sunday School”. What a novel concept!

LOL!

 

[po18guy]

This is absolutely incorrect. I twisted nothing. I quoted the quote accurately. I only have partial truth??? And you can’t explain what happens to unbaptized babies? I hope God has mercy on you and you learn the truth. This is leading no where I won’t reply to you anymore.

Ah, no point in trying to use LDS lies and deceit with one who knows about them. When you are done praying for me, look in the mirror and continue praying, won’t you?

 

[zaffiroborant]

What a great idea! We Mormons and most protestants call this “Sunday School”. What a novel concept!

Snarky sarcasm, barging into a discussion to tear up the the faith of others. What was it you said about being Christian? I’m not seeing it in your posts.

 

[Ronald_E]

##** I wonder whether it’s possible to treat all problems of this kind as intellectual. I doubt it. To think that people become Catholics for purely intellectual motives is equally odd: people are not disembodied intellects, but human beings. Treat them like excrement, & no amount of intellectualising will keep them - not unless they are great deal better than those who so treat them. **

I absolutely agree. It is critical for us too understand how the relationship between human beings affects every aspect of our lives and this begins with the quality of the attachment of the baby to the mother. The mother’s attachment to the child is determined by the quality of the attachment between husband and wife.
Safety is most important in developing a sense of security and belonging which enables the child to develop a sense of being loved. It is then in this environment that the child will get a beginning sense of rewarding relationship with other human beings. We first develop feelings in response to others and these feelings are expressed in a language that does not have the language of adults. How our distress is responded to on a preverbal basis will determine whether or not our human relationships feel safe and give us what we need at critical stages of our development. This sets up the instinctive response to our relationships outside our home environment.
Before catechesis there must be a safe and loving environment to establish a sense of belonging and value which we can carry with us to the outside world. Christ said that if we do not understand the ways of the material world we cannot understand the spiritual.
We must first understand human relationships and how this forms our sense of our faith and the beliefs that evolve from these influences.

 

[RubyT]

Welcome Back Ruby!!! It’s great to be revert

Thank you Happy. I wasn’t going to let those mean old nuns keep me away forever.

My goodness do I have testimony, but that is way off topic so I will refrain from telling my story.

God is real of this I have no doubt. Jesus flesh is really in the Eucharist, of this I have no doubt.

Bless you my friend.

 

[po18guy]

Snarky sarcasm, barging into a discussion to tear up the the faith of others. What was it you said about being Christian? I’m not seeing it in your posts.

Sadly, I have heard much the same from other members of the LDS. They, who reject the eternity of Christ, the eternal divinity of Christ, are not Christian, never mind their protestations to the contrary. They are permitted to use lies and deception in the furtherance of the LDS organization. This is a foundation of sand.

 

[RubyT]

While the Church can always do a better job in her teaching mission-and I think the opportunity to do so is better now than ever-we also have to remember that there are reasons besides poor catechesis that people leave the Church. The very need for our faith in the first place is due to the enmity, created by man, existing between man and God -and that enmity doesn’t disappear just because we hear the Word preached, no matter how well.

Life itself is a schoolroom that should confirm for us the validity of Gods revelation-that mans’ way doesn’t cut it while Gods way does-but sometimes it takes a good part of a lifetime of experience or hard knocks just to get to the point where we’re receptive to hearing about this other “way”. And then if we hear the Word or, better yet if it already resides in our hearts because we’ve been taught it well at some earlier point in our lives, it can begin to have its effect and true conversion can start to take place.

This rings true for me. In conjuncture with poor catechism and the nuns scaring me and not sharing the message of Jesus love, life took on its own struggle. It was the hard knocks of life that brought me back to RCC. Lots of strife in life has a way of doing just that. I had to realize that life without God was pointless. So yes, it resided in my heart but I had to be receptive. Good post.

 

[RubyT]

Snarky sarcasm, barging into a discussion to tear up the the faith of others. What was it you said about being Christian? I’m not seeing it in your posts.

Snarky, Snarky, Snarky.

 

[peary]

I was just wondering. For the ex-catholicss here, I mean, not people that were never catholic in the first place.
In one way, it seems like too simple an answer, and in another way, it seems to me to make a lot of sense.

Ive read tons of stories here from ex catholics who now believe they are home. Their criticisms of the Catholic Church vary yet they seem to also echo each other.

Everything from not feeling a ‘‘vibe’’ in the community, to priestly abuse, to too many rules and regulations, to heavens knows what else, and everything in between.

But I can’t help wondering, if these people had been properly, and I mean properly catechised in the beginning, would they have left the church.

I’m beginning to get the idea that the lack of decent catechetics in these peoples lives is what casued them to leave the church so quickly and readily, or, as in some cases, over a period of time.

The catechism is one of the most awesome documents Ive ever read. It is an educational masterpiece in my view, and from it you get all the referreces to scripture, tradition and early church fathers, church documents, saints, and heaven knows everything else, to flesh out any statement, claim, or instruction made in it.

The catechist I am receiving instruction from is awesome, and Father has made time for myself and another woman who are, erm, a bit troublesome outside of class, and gives us tons more stuff to work with and study.

I can’t help but think if cradle catholics and those who left the church had received a good solid basis in catechetics, they would never have the trouble they do with certain scriptural verses, would realise that the mass is not a popularity contest but celebrating the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, for us, The Eucharist is Real, and the ONLY and TOTAL focus should be on HIM and HIM alone, and would never listen to Pastor Nicey Spicey and think WOW! Finally I see the light!!! They would be able to correct his or her misguided attempts from the get go.

Just wondering. Any thoughts? And if that is so, then who needs to start doing the correcting? Churches? Schools? Families?

Bruxilda x

Poor catechetics is definitely one answer. A lack of sacredness in Mass is another. A lack of the sense of sin is another. Still, another is the power of our contemporary secular social mores over Christian families. In the end, we individually (and all) have to answer to God for our rejection of the Truth and His Church. I don’t think anyone will be able to find a legitimate excuse when confronted by Christ at the end of our lives.