Is Protestantism the greatest (most damaging) heresy in Christian history?

[beckycmarie]

I always thought of Islam as a tenuous blend of parts of Judaism and parts of Christianity, with a greater similarity to Judaism, because of its emphasis on salvation through obedience to the Law.

Islam is part Judaism, part Catholicism, and a lot of Mohammedism.

 

[MH84]

Islam is part Judaism, part Catholicism, and a lot of Mohammedism.

How is it part Catholicism?

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I don’t know what a Christadelphian is, but JW’s can’t be considered protestant since they’re not even Christian. Either are Mormons.

Mormons aren’t considered Christian by the major Protestant denominations. Some within those denominations see them as Protestant, of course. Mormons consider themselves to be Protestant, and many non-Christians see them as Protestant. Not that they have much right to say, of course.

JW’s and Mormons seem to be offshoots of Protestantism in their origins, but they’ve gone so doctrinally off in their own directions that they aren’t considered to be Protestant by most Protestants.

 

[MH84]

I don’t know what a Christadelphian is, but JW’s can’t be considered protestant since they’re not even Christian. Either are Mormons.

I sense a condescending tone in this. I think they can be called Christian, its just that they don’t believe in the Trinity.

 

[beckycmarie]

I sense a condescending tone in this. I think they can be called Christian, its just that they don’t believe in the Trinity.

It is not condescending; it is the plain and simple truth. Neither of them recognize the Trinity and/or the divinity of Christ; therefore they are not Christians.

 

[Catherine_S]

It is most devastating when it leads to the break down of morals where everyone choses what they think is right and nobody can tell them to stop. This damage is compounded with the Once Saved Always Saved mentality.

!
Easy forgiveness with no consequences!
Along with a great search for the ego and it’s fullfillment.
A self worshiping, narcissistic, and distrutive character in modern psychology entered into the christain message because it sells.
Spirituality begins with the meaning of life…psychology does not answer this question. It can help free folks from crippling guilt, abuse and so forth but than one must die to their self made golden calf to live!
*I watch televangilists occasionally and I can not believe their message. **Their like social workers. God wants you to be happy, fullfilled, rich, we are all the apple of our loving Father’s eye and His world exists to satisfy us. There is no end to the hocking of all kinds of feel good self help books clothed in cherry picked scriptures. “I will prosper you” means “name it and claim it”. No mention of any stripping away or selling all that you have and feeding the poor. *One hears little mention of what God wants from us! And even less about dieing to self or transformation.
The gospel message has been watered down indeed.
.

 

[beckycmarie]

How is it part Catholicism?

Islam was started in the 600’s, when all Christians were Catholics. Therefore, Islam is part Catholic.

Actually there is more to it than Judaism, Christianity, and Mohammed’s innovations:

Mohammed’s religion, known among its adherents as Islam, contains practically nothing original; it is a confused combination of native Arabian heathenism, Judaism, Christianity, Sabiism (Mandoeanism), Hanifism, and Zoroastrianism.
Source: newadvent.org/cathen/10424a.htm

 

[MH84]

It is not condescending; it is the plain and simple truth. Neither of them recognize the Trinity and/or the divinity of Christ; therefore they are not Christians.

Those two points you brought up:
The doctrine of the Trinity
Divinity of Jesus

Although these doctrines are an important part of Catholicism and Christianity in general, these were not the most important part of early Christianity. Read Acts, there’s no mention of these doctrines.

Also, I think they can be called Christians based on the fact that their teachings, wrong or not, are based on the teachings of Jesus and the NT. I think in other words, Jesus is the central figure in their religions.

 

[MH84]

Islam was started in the 600’s, when all Christians were Catholics. Therefore, Islam is part Catholic.

Good point!

 

[beckycmarie]

Those two points you brought up:
The doctrine of the Trinity
Divinity of Jesus

Although these doctrines are an important part of Catholicism and Christianity in general, these were not the most important part of early Christianity. Read Acts, there’s no mention of these doctrines.

Also, I think they can be called Christians based on the fact that their teachings, wrong or not, are based on the teachings of Jesus and the NT. I think in other words, Jesus is the central figure in their religions.

Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons base their beliefs in the old heresy of Arianism:

The denial of the deity of Christ is nothing new in the history of the Church. It is a revival of the ancient heresy known as Arianism (named after the fourth century A.D. heretic Arius.) Arianism teaches that the Son was of a substance different than the Father and was, in fact, created).
To the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is not equal to Jehovah God. He was rather, Michael the Archangel in his preexistent state, having a brother named Lucifer who rebelled against God while he (known then as Michael) remained obedient (see J. Rutherford, The Kingdom Is At Hand, p. 49).
source:greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/01chap05/default.htm

In addition, Mormons include many Masonic elements in their temple ceremonies.

Because they consider Christ a created being, an angel, and not God, we should consider their religions heretical cults, not Christians.

 

[DawnInTexas]

The damage has not even begun. Nevertheless, if it were not for denominationalism/Protestantism, the fracturing of Christendom, we would not have legalized abortion, the sanctioning of murder of 40,000,000 babies in the U.S. alone. Once there was no agreed upon morality chaos ensued. It is directly attributable to denominationalism. The civil government has taken the place of the Church, taken the Church’s God given jurisdiction in the area of moral law. Now we can’t even figure out that men marry women. Moral chaos in society, the confusion we see results from the religion that is the foundation of our society broken into pieces by Protestantism. “A house divided against itself, surely will fall”.

The number of “legal” abortions in the USA since Roe -v- Wade in 1973 is estimated at 50,000,000+.

I will ask this…How come I keep seeing Rosaries hanging on rear-view mirrors of (several of) the cars that pull in to our Local Planned Parenthood? When I’m out there, sidewalk counseling, I have decided to speak up. I usually say something like, “Ladies, if either of you are a practicing Catholic, you may NOT go into Planned Parenthood for any reason whatsoever.” They usually stop, listen, then hurry on in. They come back on Abortion Day.

BTW, Fr. Frank Pavone, when I discussed this with him (recently, face-to-face) said he approved. This needs to be said.

I am sick and tired of “Catholics” at our local Abortion mill.

Dear God, In Heaven above!

+Peace Be With You.

 

[DawnInTexas]

Islam was started in the 600’s, when all Christians were Catholics. Therefore, Islam is part Catholic.

Oh No You Don’t:
Since about the year 610, an orphaned Arab named Muhammed (whose daughter’s name was Fatima) had been preaching in Mecca that an “angel of light” had appeared to him announcing the “true word of God.” This angel supposedly had revealed to Muhammed that Judaism and Christianity had “misinterpreted” the word of God and that Jesus Christ was only a wise prophet, not the Son of God as Christians maintained. This mysterious angel then told Muhammed that he, not Jesus, was God’s “truest prophet,” and that he, Muhammed, was greater than Jesus. The appearance of a deceiving angel had been foretold by the Apostle Paul when he cautioned the Corinthians to be on guard against such false apostles preaching “another Gospel” or “another Jesus,” because the devil can disguise himself as an “angel of the light.”

From: THE WOMAN AND THE DRAGON
Apparitions of Mary
David Michael Lindsey

…Shall I go on?

 

[DawnInTexas]

Good point!

Bad point! Read my previous post to this thread. Bad point!

 

[jmcrae]

ok. I still don’t see the connection between legal aboration and the philosophical and theological systems of protestants. Could you show me how we get from A to B? a link explaining or showing some light would work too.

It is the fact that once we had varieties of denominations co-existing in the same place (Baptists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, and Pentecostals all living on the same street together) then the only way to keep from destroying the neighborhood is to say “live and let live,” at which point, “I choose my own morality” - at first, I pick and choose from the religions available to me on my street, but at some point, it dawns on me that I can create my own religion, and at this point, anything goes.

If I want an abortion, I get one - who’s going to stop me? If one religion comes to me and says “That’s wrong,” I just say “That’s your opinion; not mine.” If they all come to me and say “That’s wrong,” I just invent my own religion and say, “My religion says it’s okay; who are you to say it’s wrong?”

 

[jmcrae]

In response to the OP’s question, I would say that Protestantism is the heresy of all heresies, since it not only encompasses all of the original heresies, it has also created a few new ones of its own.

 

[beckycmarie]

Oh No You Don’t:
Since about the year 610, an orphaned Arab named Muhammed (whose daughter’s name was Fatima) had been preaching in Mecca that an “angel of light” had appeared to him announcing the “true word of God.” This angel supposedly had revealed to Muhammed that Judaism and Christianity had “misinterpreted” the word of God and that Jesus Christ was only a wise prophet, not the Son of God as Christians maintained. This mysterious angel then told Muhammed that he, not Jesus, was God’s “truest prophet,” and that he, Muhammed, was greater than Jesus. The appearance of a deceiving angel had been foretold by the Apostle Paul when he cautioned the Corinthians to be on guard against such false apostles preaching “another Gospel” or “another Jesus,” because the devil can disguise himself as an “angel of the light.”

From: THE WOMAN AND THE DRAGON
Apparitions of Mary
David Michael Lindsey

…Shall I go on?

My quote about Islam being “part Catholic” was taken out of context of the original post to which it referred. Yes I am aware the Muslim faith is not Catholic. That was a response to a question about my first post, where I was said that Muhammed mixed elements of various religions, including Catholicism, to create Islam.

 

[beckycmarie]

Our Lady may be working to convert Muslims:

Is there a connection between Our Lady of Fatima and Islam? In short, yes.

Francis Johnston, in his 1979 book Fatima: The Great Sign, explains the connection:

"The Moslems, who have a certain devotion to Our Lady and recognise her Virgin birth and Immaculate Conception, were intrigued by the fact that Mary had appeared at Fatima, which was the name of Mohammed’s favourite daughter and regarded by the prophet as the highest woman in Heaven after Our Lady. In Zanzibar, the Moslem sultan placed a wreath of flowers at the [Fatima] statue’s feet, while the Moslem chief of the Ismaeli tribe in Mozambique placed a golden necklace about the statue’s neck saying: ‘Thank you, Our Lady of Fatima for the work of love you are accomplishing in Africa’ " (p. 126).

Could Our Lady of Fatima play a role in the eventual elimination of militant Islam? I wouldn’t be surprised.
Source: renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/050213

More on this topic from EWTN:
ewtn.com/library/mary/olislam.htm

 

[grandfather]

Are JW and Christadelphians etc considered Protestants?

their roots are Protestant. They come from Protestants if they are not Protestants. Protestantism is the many headed hydra.

 

[roccoarinaldi]

The reason I believe Protestantism is the most damaging heresy is because it is the mother of the heresy of “Indifferentism” which is destroying the majority of the Catholic church from within.Most Catholics believe it is OK to be Protestant which is like saying it is OK to go to hell.The only Protestants that get to Heaven are those who have invincible ignorance(material heretics).The Catholic Church is the ARK and you must be inside the ARK to be saved.Pope Eugene IV(1441) proclaimed ex cathedra that there is no salvation outside the church “The Most Holy Roman Catholic Church”.

 

[Cardinalsong]

Probably Pentecost. That is when confirmations are held, right? I’m going through the RCIA confirmation classes right now.

I definitely feel that God is leading me this way. Sound reason, the Bible, powerful religious experiences, and our history books are all pointing me in the same direction. There is no logic, no scripture, no history and no religious experience pointing the other way, as far as I can see, and I’ve been debating this a lot with my Dad, who is extremely wise and knowledgeable.

I really could use prayer, though. I’m experiencing a lot of pressure from my family over my current views, and I know no one who I can see in flesh and blood, who believes I am doing the right thing. Only those in this forum believe I am doing the right thing, but even many of them would shy away if they knew that I now think the Inquisition was overall doing the right thing (though of course it was fallible and made mistakes, some grievous, like any human justice system will), and that religious freedom and separation of church and state are abominable.

**I’m feeling extremely isolated. **

The Catholic Church I’m going to is very loving, but it also seems to be rather significantly influenced by modern culture. My RCIA instructor said the Bible is self-contradictory and is not inerrant, and she spoke of Martin Luther as “quite a character,” but certainly not as a false prophet. I don’t know how much spiritual support I’ll be able to expect from this church. At least they oppose abortion.

My greatest solace as regards human support is that I can look back at the words of great saints from the past, for once upon a time the entire Christian world thought the same way I am coming to think.

The absence of support and the immense exterior pressure make it easier for me to fall into the trap of distrusting God. I have had far more doubts since the pressure from outside began, not for any rational reason, but simply coming from the desire to have peace and unity with my family. Mistrust is a force I am vigorously fighting.

I feel pretty sure that I never will change my mind, however, because I am absolutely disgusted now by the evil I can clearly see and understand. I can see this atrocious evil with spiritual eyes- I even sometimes receive dreams or images in my mind’s eye from God that show me the wickedness that has been developing in culture and law in society for centuries, and now I know where its roots are, where it comes from. So I don’t think I could possibly go back to my old ways of thinking without feeling as though I was eating vomit.

God speaks to me very often and comforts and strengthens me. That is an ENORMOUS help. But in spite of that, I’ve never felt so alone. The great gift of insight God has given me in the last year is acting nearly as much as a curse as it is a blessing. I love possessing this knowledge that unveils God’s actions in the fantastic sweep of Christian history to me, yet the pain that comes with the knowledge from my surroundings is acute. This new grace and insight, this new closeness of God in my life, has become like an infection or disease. This is because I know that if my friends were aware of what I think (I’ve told them I’m moving toward Catholicism, but most of them know no more than that), I would not be treated with confidence any longer, but rather as a . . . I don’t know exactly what, but the relationships certainly would change for the worse, as have my relationships with my family members. The gift of God is both wonderful and horrible at the same time.

As God cuts away my human supports and worldly connections, I rely more and more heavily upon him and so come closer and closer to him. I hear from him almost every day now. In the past, it was once every couple weeks, or sometimes once a month. But now, God is constantly present and active with me.

**Anyway, I could use prayer. And I also very much want prayer for my family members, that God will give them peace about the direction I am going. That is high on my prayer list. I could use prayer for increased confidence about the direction in which I am going. And self-control, strength, faith and love. I need any or all of these.

I’m not asking that you pray for me often or anything- just whenever you think about it. I’d really appreciate it** .

My prayers are with you Leif

I’m going through a very similar situation here myself and know exactly what you mean when you say how isolated you feel. I’ve never felt so alone in my life! It is so easy to get discouraged and fall into dispair yet there is no greater peace and joy in discovering the Truth in the Church that Christ established!

Didn’t mean to go OT but wanted to let you know I’m praying for you.