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Catholic2003
Guest
If there is a problem with the age of consent being too low in some states, then that needs to be fixed by raising the age of consent, not by selective enforcement.
Imagine the public service announcements otherwise: “Attention sexual deviants! You shouldn’t be molesting minors. But if you do, then be sure to molest a minor of the opposite gender.”
It puts the “Attention teenagers! You shouldn’t be having sex until you are married. But if you do, then be sure to use a condom.” ads to shame.
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Catholic2003
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In a few years my daughter will be 14. Do I take it that all you ACLU-bashers agree with the Kansas state legislature that it is nearly acceptable for an 18 year-old boy to molest my daughter, but should an 18 year-old girl do it, then she should go to jail for ten times as long a sentence as the boy would?
Suppose a white neighborhood is having problems with black drug dealers. Do you think it would be acceptable for the legislature to pass a law that made the penalty for drug dealing ten times longer if the buyer and the seller were of different races? Because I’m sure the ACLU would oppose such a law.
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gilliam
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You probably already know this, and for reasons of your own you are ignoring it, but by far, the vast majority of molestations occur by an adult male. This is a real sexist thing to say, but I really think a lot of people feel that a 21 year old man molesting a 14 year old boy will tramatize the boy a lot longer than a 18 year old boy molesting a 14 year old girl.
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Catholic2003
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I don’t have a son, but I can’t imagine going to bed every night praying that if one of my children is molested, I hope it is my daughter.
Any time any minor is molested, the perpetrator should go to jail for a very long time. I don’t see that the genders, or the races, or any other irrelevant aspect makes sexual contact between a minor and a non-minor okay.
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JMJ_Pinoy
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To all of you praising the Anti-Christian Liberal Union (ACLU)… please take a look at post #38.
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gilliam
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BLB_Oregon
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Your suspicions about the sentiments of the general public may be correct, but that is a really sexist thing to say. For the victim, rape is a violation not only of the most private part of their body, but of the most vulnerable part of their psyche. Really --for crying out loud, what are you saying? That 14 year old girls go ga-ga over 18 year old men, so maybe sometimes they might enjoy statuatory rape, so therefore it must do less harm?
Rape, including statuatory rape, is not something kids look back on with fondness. That they sometimes and in some sense give consent does not make it better! It only makes them feel guilty because they feel they cooperated. Pulling that awful mental trick is the oldest one in the molester’s handbook. Furthermore, 14 year-old-girls who are sexually active for any reason have this way of continuing to be sexually active. When does that trauma “wear off”? (Since it doesn’t last as long, then you are logically implying that it does wear off.)
Eighteen year olds who prey on little girls do not need anyone to further their rationalization that “it doesn’t really hurt them–they love it.” Their bodies may be starting to look womanly, but they are girls. It is the rape of a child. Period.
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gilliam
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Yet homosexual rape is NOT the same a heterosexual rape. And is by and large done by men.
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Lisa_N
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Why must you always use the most outrageous examples as being mainstream? Do you have some verifiable information that homosexuals are being persecuted in such a way as a pattern? Further do you REALLY think that with all the many years the little cross has been on the LA seal that anyone looked at it hard enough, considered it a traumatic experience and thus felt unwelcome in LA? Please let’s add a dose of reality to the discussion. Think of all of us kids who used to learn religious songs and Christmas carols in grade school. Gosh I guess we better sue for all of the trauma of making the non-Christian students (as I was at the time) feel like second class citizens…
The problem with the ACLU is they aren’t really focusing on actual dimunition of rights but are looking around for opportunities to erase Christianity. No one complained about the little cross on the seal. No one brought suit or said their civil liberties were being violated. It was simply a set up to further their particular cause. I have yet to see any information that gilliam and I are incorrect in our interpretation of the ACLU’s activities. They are extremely hostile to Christianity, while leaving other religions alone. Until you or someone else can provide some counter evidence I’m going to continue to believe the ACLU is anti Christian and will act accordingly.
As to NAMBLA’s freedom of speech, there have been several extremely well known cases where information provided by an organization on a website or in other formats (brochures, bulletins) that were determined to incite criminal behavior did not fall under freedom of speech. Given that preying upon minor boys IS illegal in this country, that NAMBLA encourages this behavior puts them at risk for being pulled into a court case as being the cause of the predatory behavior. Freedom of speech clauses will not protect them. I only hope someone DOES sue this group out of existence. They are despicable.
Lisa N
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Digitonomy
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Lisa N:
Do you have a cite for this? My understanding of the ACLU is that they don’t generally go looking for cases on their own. People approach them about an issue, and the ACLU decides whether they want to pursue it. Unless they were approached, or were already involved with a closely related issue (say, the city rather than county seal), I doubt they would get involved. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe in a county as large, diverse, and full of liberals, athiests, and whacko religions as LA, that no one complained about it.
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Catholic2003
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This was clearly written by a group that thinks the First Amendment reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, unless it is Christianity, …”. However, they should really work towards amending the Constitution to say what they want, instead of complaning against those groups that try to enforce the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as they are actually written.
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gilliam
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The 1st ammendment was not to establish a State religion. Period. The ACLU has read much more into it than is actually there. We all must remember that the ACLU was not elected by anyone to be a legislative or law creating body. They are political action group, and they are trying their best to eraticate religious values in American public life. No such restriction has been written into law.
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BLB_Oregon
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Rape is by and large done by men, this is true. I’m not certain, but I think that statistics tilt toward males in all types of violent crime. As a woman, though, I wouldn’t find rape by a woman either more or less objectionable than the rape by a man. Both sound horrific to me. At any rate, I would hope that a woman who sexually assaulted me wouldn’t get off with an easier sentence by virtue of being a woman, and I certainly hope that a man who rapes me would get a sentence no more or less severe than if he’d raped a man.
I remember living once in a college town in which there was a rapist loose whose victims were male. All of a sudden, the fellows had to be careful that they didn’t go out alone, that they avoided the dark alleys that the perpetrator favored, that they be constantly aware of their surroundings… all those things we women almost take for granted. My male friends were freaked out–very upset. To which I said, “You have my sympathy… welcome to my world.”
You’ve heard it a million times, but it is true: Rape is a violent crime, not a sexual one. Like theft, by its existence it touches far more people than just the primary victims. Now we know that children, in order to be kept safe, must be given a margin of safety–one that takes away from their quality of life. I hope as a man you have some sympathy for those of us who cannot go out into the world alone and unconcerned to enjoy nature, to enjoy the night, to enjoy solitude, to enjoy our fellow human beings. How I wish more men comprehended what that means.
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Lisa_N
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I’ll have to find it but I’ve heard this case discussed several times on the news. The ACLU LOOKS for Christian symbols and organizations IMO, based on the recent pattern. Further their latest tactic is to threaten legal action and most cities (I understand LA was one) simply capitulate rather than spend the money to fight. That’s why I am glad there are organizations fighting them.
I really think there are more important battles to wage. For one I think the rights of children in this country are NOT protected. We protect PARENTAL rights, often to the detriment of the children and nothing seems to be done about it. Being on the board of a shelter for homeless families I’ve become INCREDIBLY frustrated with childrens’ services division as they simply will not terminate parental rights, even when the parents’s actions are extremely detrimental to the kids. I’ve spoken to our executive director numerous times about irresponsible parents who drag their kids through hell. No one is looking out for these kids. Maybe the ACLU could do something like this instead of worrying that some nitwit is “traumatized” by looking at a little cross on a city seal.
ACLU is one of those organizations I used to respect…like the UN. Both IMO have outlived their actual usefullness.
Lisa N
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Catholic2003
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Lisa N:
Lisa N:
I agree. My wife just told me a horrific story about an Amish girl having all her teeth pulled as a punishment for reading Nancy Drew books. Someone should go to jail for that.
Lisa N:
I don’t know where you are getting this “traumatized” standard from. The First Amendment does not read, “Congress may pass laws respecting an establishment of religion so long as no one is traumatized by it.”
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Lisa_N
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You indicated someone must have been bothered, felt slighted or unwelcome due to the cross on the city seal. You apparently believe that if someone is agitated at the sight of a religious symbol in a public place, that this is establishment of a religion and thus a violation of the Constitution. I think that is going WAY overboard and not at all what the Founding Fathers intended. There is also no standard in the Constitution that we have a right to live without ever being offended but that seems to be the basis of most of these claims.
As to the Amish story, that sounds a bit bizarre. The Amish are very gentle people. OTOH there are nuts in every faith and it sounds like this is one. My own concern about the civil rights of children has more to do with irresponsible parents who drag their kids along through their incredibly chaotic lives. No child should have to live in such conditions but apparently our society sees children more as property of the parents than as individuals with their own rights. I’d like to see the ACLU take on something like the cause of children with irresponsible, dangerous parents.
LIsa N
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Exporter
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I am the one who started this thread,“Is The ACLU A PAGAN GROUP”.
1. There have been two who posted whose profile states they are Catholic. But their comments are more in line with Anti-God and certainly Anti-Catholic organizations. I don’t understand people like that.
**2.**I was hoping someone could go beyond pointing out Anti-Christian acts by the ACLU, I was looking for a positive connection with actual Anti-Christian organizations.
3. Nothing was posted about the religions of the leaders of the ACLU.
:bounce:
1. There have been two who posted whose profile states they are Catholic. But their comments are more in line with Anti-God and certainly Anti-Catholic organizations. I don’t understand people like that.
**2.**I was hoping someone could go beyond pointing out Anti-Christian acts by the ACLU, I was looking for a positive connection with actual Anti-Christian organizations.
3. Nothing was posted about the religions of the leaders of the ACLU.
:bounce:
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St.James
Guest
This was originally stated in post #48
The ACLU leadership is almost reminiscent of a temple board meeting …[p. 279] … So many of the enthusiasts for the radical homosexual agenda, increased immorality, and expanded abortion rights are Jewish." [p. 293] rabbi Daniel Lapin, “America’s Real War,” Multnomah Publishers, Oregon, 1999
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Catholic2003
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