Is the CCC a rule or a suggestion or?

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fix:
No, that is incorrect. It is a true statement. That others do not view it that way does not make it less true.
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Ok, if that’s your view, so be it. However, I disagree. We’ve beat this dead horse enough.
 
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mikew262:
Ok, if that’s your view, so be it. However, I disagree. We’ve beat this dead horse enough.
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Fix, it looks like you will have to start at the beginning. As you noticed, many posters who have this view seem to have a gap in knowledge. If someone is taught relativism early on their view is skewed. It is very effective and hard to combat.
 
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mikew262:
Ok, if that’s your view, so be it. However, I disagree. We’ve beat this dead horse enough.
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Does that mean all “views” are equal?
 
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buffalo:
Fix, it looks like you will have to start at the beginning. As you noticed, many posters who have this view seem to have a gap in knowledge. If someone is taught relativism early on their view is skewed. It is very effective and hard to combat.
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It really does come down to authority.
 
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buffalo:
My opinion says 1+ 1 = 3 and that’s the way it is. What say you?
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Yes, that is a good example. I say 2 you say 3 they both are aceptable as long as we agree they are numbers?
 
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fix:
Yes, that is a good example. I say 2 you say 3 they both are aceptable as long as we agree they are numbers?
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Well no, not really. I can yell louder so my truth is truer. 🙂 And if I convince enough people and they support my version then you are done for.
 
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fix:
Does that mean all “views” are equal?
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Nope, I didn’t say that. I see you are trying to lump me into the “Relativism” crowd.

What I’m saying is that while Catholics believe the Catholic Church is the one true church, non-catholic Christians do not share that view. Thus, you can’t hold them to the “Catholic” standard. Seems pretty common sense to me. Why some of you are having trouble with that concept is beyond me.
 
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buffalo:
Well no, not really. I can yell louder so my truth is truer. 🙂 And if I convince enough people and they support my version then you are done for.
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You and Fix going to engage in some intelligent conversation or continue your silly sarcasm?
 
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mikew262:
You and Fix going to engage in some intelligent conversation or continue your silly sarcasm?
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Sometimes silly sarcasm can be very interesting indeed.

But to continue on - I have a plan.

Consistent with my feelings about 1+1 I am going to put it into action.
  1. I will start by teaching all children that 1+1=3. When they ask why it changed I will reply. “We know more now and are more enlightened”. The people of old were dead wrong and 1+1=2 no longer suits the modern world.
  2. We will indoctrinate the science world with this teaching refusing to listen to any other point of view. If anyone dares disagree we will label them as fundamentalists.
  3. We will make truth a dirty word and associate it with all kinds of politically incorrect thinking.
  4. We will only elect those that agree with 1+1=3.
  5. We will ask the media to assist us in this new new math.
I think I covered most of the bases. So you see fix, I am right and you are right. But I will carry the day.
 
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mikew262:
Nope, I didn’t say that. I see you are trying to lump me into the “Relativism” crowd.

What I’m saying is that while Catholics believe the Catholic Church is the one true church, non-catholic Christians do not share that view. Thus, you can’t hold them to the “Catholic” standard. Seems pretty common sense to me. Why some of you are having trouble with that concept is beyond me.
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OK, so you are not a relativist. I just do not understand your position about holding a non Catholic to the Catholic position.

I am not judging anyone’s moral culpability. I am saying that because one does not accept an objective truth does not mean there is not one or that all things are equal. The person who does not accept the truth may be non culpable or he may be culpable. My point is there is a truth whether or not some one disagrees with the truth or not.
 
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buffalo:
Sometimes silly sarcasm can be very interesting indeed.

But to continue on - I have a plan.

Consistent with my feelings about 1+1 I am going to put it into action.
  1. I will start by teaching all children that 1+1=3. When they ask why it changed I will reply. “We know more now and are more enlightened”. The people of old were dead wrong and 1+1=2 no longer suits the modern world.
  2. We will indoctrinate the science world with this teaching refusing to listen to any other point of view. If anyone dares disagree we will label them as fundamentalists.
  3. We will make truth a dirty word and associate it with all kinds of politically incorrect thinking.
  4. We will only elect those that agree with 1+1=3.
  5. We will ask the media to assist us in this new new math.
I think I covered most of the bases. So you see fix, I am right and you are right. But I will carry the day.
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I’ll just monitor and respond when there is something intelligent to respond too.

BTW, resorting to sarcasm generally is a defense mechanism used by somebody when they feel their opposition has made valid points, but they either don’t want to admit to it, or they no have no valid rebuttal. Which is it here?
 
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mikew262:
I’ll just monitor and respond when there something intelligent to respond too.

BTW, resorting to sarcasm generally is a defense mechanism used by somebody when they feel their opposition has made valid points, but they either don’t want to admit to it, or they no have no valid rebuttal. Which is it here?
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Just having a little fun and trying to humorously fill in the gaps.🙂 Do you see anything the least bit familiar in my plan?
 
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blessedrosary:
This is actually true… The church teaches that we are saved only through the Church, however, not neccasarily by being “in” the church. Those are two different ideas although the line that seperates them seem vague. As Jesus also said, you can only be saved through me, as Catholics we don’t beleive that he meant you can only be saved by believing in him but if those are saved and do not believe it was still “through” Jesus by his death and resurrection. Remember, the Church teaches that people can be saved through Christ-like works and by serving God as best as they know him. The Catholic church reveals God most intimately to us, becase (catholics believe) the church is infallible. However, if someone has had no oppurtunity to be part of the Church and they still love Jesus or God then God will judge them accordingly.
Btw, to linnyo, I am sorry for my accusations of heresy toward you and i ask humbly for your forgiveness.
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I accept your apology as sometimes we can all say things that are a bit off the mark. I do enjoy debating various issues and it helps me gain a better understanding of my beliefs and the beliefs of others. Sometimes I might be wrong and other times I might be right but I do believe in the fundemental issues in Christianity.
 
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buffalo:
Just having a little fun and trying to humorously fill in the gaps.🙂 Do you see anything the least bit familiar in my plan?
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Well it’s a little more complex than that. However I’ll play your game for a bit.

At one time a long time ago: The world is flat and nobody can tell me any different. If you sail too far, you fall off the edge and die. This is the way God made it, I agree with that, and if you don’t agree with that, you are wrong and guilty of heresy and must die. Don’t try to confuse me with the facts, I know better.

Sometime later, still a long time ago: Holy Moley! Somebody just sailed to the edge and didn’t fall off. Well what do you know? Looks like God didn’t make it that way afterall. It looks the world may be round like somebody tried to tell us awhile back. Looks like we were wrong. I suppose we should’ve listened and been a little more opened minded. May be there is room for more than one train of thought. Hmm…

Pretty simplistic, huh? I believe I made my point, but it’s little more complex than this isn’t?
 
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mikew262:
As a Catholic, you are right. To a non-Catholic Christian, you are not.
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While you may not be intending to make this statement as relativistic as it can be, it is at best highly ambiguous. If something is “right,” i.e. true, then it is true for all people, no matter whether they agree it is true or not. Your statement makes it sound like you think something can be true for a Catholic while false for a non-Catholic. That’s why you’re getting so much ribbing.
 
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mikew262:
Well it’s a little more complex than that. However I’ll play your game for a bit.

At one time a long time ago: The world is flat and nobody can tell me any different. If you sail too far, you fall off the edge and die. This is the way God made it, I agree with that, and if you don’t agree with that, you are wrong and guilty of heresy and must die. Don’t try to confuse me with the facts, I know better.

Sometime later, still a long time ago: Holy Moley! Somebody just sailed to the edge and didn’t fall off. Well what do you know? Looks like God didn’t make it that way afterall. It looks the world may be round like somebody tried to tell us awhile back. Looks like we were wrong. I suppose we should’ve listened and been a little more opened minded. May be there is room for more than one train of thought. Hmm…

Pretty simplistic, huh? I believe I made my point, but it’s little more complex than this isn’t?
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One difference - the world being flat was not absolute truth.

The Revealed Word of God is.
 
Andreas Hofer:
While you may not be intending to make this statement as relativistic as it can be, it is at best highly ambiguous. If something is “right,” i.e. true, then it is true for all people, no matter whether they agree it is true or not. Your statement makes it sound like you think something can be true for a Catholic while false for a non-Catholic. That’s why you’re getting so much ribbing.
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That is what fix and I have been trying to point out. The sand foundations do not hold up to the truth.
 
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