Is the Mass Biblical?

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

mercygate:

This is a GREAT question! Because it looks like our “hunger and thirst” contradict our Lord’s promise that we will not hunger and thirst.

But the Gospels are full of paradoxes. I think our problem with this one lies in the fact that “in the flesh” (*our *flesh, “which is iof no avail”), we will “hunger and thirst” all of our earthly lives. Jesus even gives us a Beatitude about that: “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.”

But in *his *Spirit, in his Resurrection, we are satisfied by the Bread of Christ’s Body in the Eucharist. We participate in that promise of no more hunger and thirst.

This side of Heaven, there will always be this tension between flesh and spirit.

So, practically, what did Jesus mean when He said that we will not hunger after eating Him?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[mercygate]

porthos11:

Mercygate, lemme take where you left off. That’s a great insight. The Holy Father has mentioned that those who partake of the Eucharist do not have to wait till the hereafter to obtain eternal life, they already possess it here on earth.

In that sense, never hungering and never thirsting is true even here on earth.

Great point.

Yo, porthos11: not just the Holy Father but Jesus, himself: Jn 3:36
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life;”

What greater affirmation of belief in the Son, who has said he will be “with us always” and has promised his Body and Blood in the Eucharist, than to receive him there?

 

[porthos11]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

What’s the meaning of being hungry and thirsty?

Can a dead person eat and drink JESUS CHRIST?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

No he can’t that’s why he stays away from Communion. He must be alive first.

Jesus refers to spiritual hunger and spiritual thirst. To hunger and thirst in this sense is to have health in spirit. Those who partake of the body and blood of the Lord have this health and life.

 

[porthos11]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

So, practically, what did Jesus mean when He said that we will not hunger after eating Him?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

It means our souls want for nothing. Which is the truth, for when we have the Real Body and Real Blood of Christ in our very being, what more do we want?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

porthos11:

Mercygate, lemme take where you left off. That’s a great insight. The Holy Father has mentioned that those who partake of the Eucharist do not have to wait till the hereafter to obtain eternal life, they already possess it here on earth.

In that sense, never hungering and never thirsting is true even here on earth.

Great point.

But if someone commits a sin after eating and drinking, he must go and eat again, because he becomes hungry…

While God says:

“By this will we have been **sanctified ** through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” ( Hebrews 10:10 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

porthos11:

Correct on both points. Not just without communion, but without baptism as well.

So the solution? Get baptized, and partake of the Eucharist. Baptism is how one gets justified, there is no other way; the Bible says so. Communion is the participation in the body and blood of Christ, through which we sustain eternal life.

So the so called “Sacrifice” of Mass does NOT have ALONE the SAME power of the ONCE FOR ALL Sacrifice of the Cross.

And yet… they are the same…

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[porthos11]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

But if someone commits a sin after eating and drinking, he must go and eat again, because he becomes hungry…

While God says:

“By this will we have been **sanctified ** through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” ( Hebrews 10:10 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Nope, he must go be resurrected. He does not become hungry; he becomes DEAD. As a doornail. As such he cannot hunger or thirst. It is Reconciliation that restores the life he lost. And Reconciliation does this BECAUSE OF THE SACRIFICE OF THE CROSS!!! It always goes back to the cross.

And your Scriptural quotation is the absolute truth. Baptism, Eucharist, Confession all get their efficacy only from the ONCE FOR ALL Sacrifice of the Cross.

 

[mercygate]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

So, practically, what did Jesus mean when He said that we will not hunger after eating Him?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

I am not sure that the word “practically” applies to this paradigm. Mysteries often escape practical definition because they participate in the life of the Kingdom, which is always somewhat veiled to us.

Yet in the Eucharist (as also in Baptism) we *become *part of Christ’s Body in a particular way. We become part of his Life for the world. “Practically,” one might possibly say, with Paul, that “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” (Gal 2:20) If “I no longer live” then I no longer hunger and thirst – insofar as hunger and thirst represent deprivation and my life in the flesh.

 

[porthos11]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

So the so called “Sacrifice” of Mass does NOT have ALONE the SAME power of the ONCE FOR ALL Sacrifice of the Cross.

And yet… they are the same…

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yes it does. And it’s not so-called, it IS the Sacrifice. Reconciliation applies the healing grace the Sacrifice brought us. The Mass is the same Sacrifice made present (anamnesis). Baptism, Reconciliation and Communion are the Sacrifice applied.

And the Sacrifice once-for-all does not mean over-and-done with, otherwise Jesus would not be the eternal high priest. So even that should tell you that the Sacrifice continues to be offered even now. It is not over and done with.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

porthos11:

No he can’t that’s why he stays away from Communion. He must be alive first.

But how can he have Life FIRST without Communion? Jesus says that we can’t have Life unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood.

porthos11:

Jesus refers to spiritual hunger and spiritual thirst. To hunger and thirst in this sense is to have health in spirit. Those who partake of the body and blood of the Lord have this health and life.

Are you sure to hunger and thirst is to have health in spirit?

Then, when the Lord says that we will not hunger and thirst, does He mean that we will not have health in spirit?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

porthos11:

It means our souls want for nothing. Which is the truth, for when we have the Real Body and Real Blood of Christ in our very being, what more do we want?

I guess after you eat the bread and drink the cup, if you sin, you will NEED reconciliation with God. Don’t you call that hunger?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[porthos11]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

But how can he have Life FIRST without Communion? Jesus says that we can’t have Life unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood.

He has life FIRST through baptism. He SUSTAINS life through the Eucharist. In natural life, we have life FIRST through birth. We sustain life through food. Unless I eat my food, I have no life in me.

Jesus is saying the exact same thing. Only he applies this to the soul.

Are you sure to hunger and thirst is to have health in spirit?

Then, when the Lord says that we will not hunger and thirst, does He mean that we will not have health in spirit?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

No to hunger and thirst is to NOT have health in spirit. Don’t try to confuse me.

 

[porthos11]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

I guess after you eat the bread and drink the cup, if you sin, you will NEED reconciliation with God. Don’t you call that hunger?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

How many times do I need to write this? You’re really coming across as hard-headed.

I don’t call it hunger. It’s called DEATH.

 

[mercygate]

porthos11:

Yes it does. And it’s not so-called, it IS the Sacrifice. Reconciliation applies the healing grace the Sacrifice brought us. The Mass is the same Sacrifice made present (anamnesis). Baptism, Reconciliation and Communion are the Sacrifice applied.

And the Sacrifice once-for-all does not mean over-and-done with, otherwise Jesus would not be the eternal high priest. So even that should tell you that the Sacrifice continues to be offered even now. It is not over and done with.

Indeed. But Protestants tend to limit the definition of “once-for-all” to the Calvary moment in the human Jesus of history. Catholics understand that in the eternity of God – the same, yesterday, today, and forever – the Sacrifice is also eternal. Not repeated. But forever.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

porthos11:

Nope, he must go be resurrected. He does not become hungry; he becomes DEAD. As a doornail. As such he cannot hunger or thirst. It is Reconciliation that restores the life he lost. And Reconciliation does this BECAUSE OF THE SACRIFICE OF THE CROSS!!! It always goes back to the cross.

And your Scriptural quotation is the absolute truth. Baptism, Eucharist, Confession all get their efficacy only from the ONCE FOR ALL Sacrifice of the Cross.

So, according to what you say here, everytime you sin, you are DEAD again… While the Lord says:

"Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
“This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.” ( John 6:49-50 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[mercygate]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

I guess after you eat the bread and drink the cup, if you sin, you will NEED reconciliation with God. Don’t you call that hunger?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

That’s where the struggle between flesh and spirit in this life comes in and why we are so grateful to Jesus for providing an ongoing means of accessing the remedy.

Do you never sin?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

porthos11:

Yes it does. And it’s not so-called, it IS the Sacrifice. Reconciliation applies the healing grace the Sacrifice brought us. The Mass is the same Sacrifice made present (anamnesis). Baptism, Reconciliation and Communion are the Sacrifice applied.

And the Sacrifice once-for-all does not mean over-and-done with, otherwise Jesus would not be the eternal high priest. So even that should tell you that the Sacrifice continues to be offered even now. It is not over and done with.

What if this eternal High Priest presented an ETERNAL Sacrifice ONCE FOR ALL?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[porthos11]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

So, according to what you say here, everytime you sin, you are DEAD again… While the Lord says:

"Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
“This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.” ( John 6:49-50 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Oh yes, indeedy Jesus does promise eternal life. But he never imposes it.

Just as we can reject our natural life we can also reject our spiritual life. He never takes away our free will.

There is sin that leads to death, says St. John. Hence the term “mortal” sin.

 

[porthos11]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

What if this eternal High Priest presented an ETERNAL Sacrifice ONCE FOR ALL?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

You got THAT one right. That’s why Jesus is an eternal priest because there is an eternal Sacrifice. And an eternal Sacrifice never ends.

Why do think there is an altar in heaven?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

porthos11:

He has life FIRST through baptism. He SUSTAINS life through the Eucharist. In natural life, we have life FIRST through birth. We sustain life through food. Unless I eat my food, I have no life in me.

Jesus is saying the exact same thing. Only he applies this to the soul.

If you have life FIRST through Baptism, and if the Lord is saying that you can’t have Life unless you eat His flesh and drink His blood, so I conclude that you mean Baptism is that eating and drinking.

porthos11:

No to hunger and thirst is to NOT have health in spirit. Don’t try to confuse me.

No. Just because you said it is.

In Love,
Yaqubos†