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Sarah_Jane
Guest
Eucharist is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of the Cross.
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Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
“By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ** once for all**.” ( Hebrews 10:10 )
“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.” ( 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 )
"So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.” ( John 6:53 )
I will be judged according to the Word of God, and not according to the words of humans who are meditating ABOUT the Word of God.
We see clearly that all those fathers are studying passages of the Scripture to tell you whatever they are telling you.
When God talks, all have to listen!!!
“Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks” ( Isaiah 1:2 )
“But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” ( Galatians 1:8-9 )
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Sarah Jane said:
“By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ** once for all**.” ( Hebrews 10:10 )
“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.” ( 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 )
"So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.” ( John 6:53 )
I will be judged according to the Word of God, and not according to the words of humans who are meditating ABOUT the Word of God.
We see clearly that all those fathers are studying passages of the Scripture to tell you whatever they are telling you.
When God talks, all have to listen!!!
“Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks” ( Isaiah 1:2 )
“But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” ( Galatians 1:8-9 )
In Love,
Yaqubos†
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YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
So the difference is just in the manner, and not in the ENDS for which the Sacrifice is offered.
Well, is that Sacrifice offered to give the dead sinner life? Is it offered to give the pagan LIFE?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
redeemed1 said:
So the difference is just in the manner, and not in the ENDS for which the Sacrifice is offered.
Well, is that Sacrifice offered to give the dead sinner life? Is it offered to give the pagan LIFE?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
Sarah Jane:
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Sarah Jane:
May I ask you a question? Are you still trying to prove that the Mass is the SAME Sacrifice as that of the Cross?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
C
Church_Militant
Guest
It only contradicts your personal human idea concerning a clear teaching of scripture which you cannot accept, even as we cannot accept yours. You have no assurance that you personal interpretation is the correct one yet we can show that we are in line with what the early church fathers believed and practiced. Your choice to reject them is your burden…not ours.
In Love,
C.M.
L
Luke1_48
Guest
That’s because it is, it does not go against the bible at all and as early as the first century there are writings that show the early Christians believed the mass is a sacrifice. How is offering the same thing going against the once and for all? Offering something new would, but Catholics don’t do that.
L
Luke1_48
Guest
It is offered for the Christian, not pagan, so that the Christian’s washing from sin may end and that the Christian will be in Heaven. Catholics do not believe that they are a pile of dung covered with snow. They believe that they are a diamond covered with a pile of dung and God scrubs all the dung off to make the diamond shine again. Catholics offer masses so that the cleaning will end soon.
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mercygate
Guest
It IS the SAME: not multiple Sacrifices. THAT same Sacrifice – because Christ is the same, “yesterday, today, and forever.”
One of the differences between a Catholic and Protestant view seems to be that Protestants hold a more linear view of time. The concept that the eternity of God extends in all directions doesn’t factor into Protestant thought – at least in my experience on these forums.
T
Tim_Hayes
Guest
YAQUBOS, you did not answer the question, what is the word of God, who the hell knows, and that is the plain answer according to your reasoning. Has God directed us to ensure we understand and can accurately interpret the written scriptures. If the answer is yes, then please tell me who has accurately taught scriptural truth, say from 100ad to the the present. If you cannot say who that is then tell me how you can know when God kept changing horses during the race from one religeos group to another, please tell me how you authoritavely know when those changes occurred and with who.
Do you not understand, that the ONLY WAY FOR US TO KNOW THE TRUTH IS IF GOD HAS INFALLIABLY ENSURED IT, THAT IS THE ONLY OPTION. The only thing to decide is WHO did God guide to esnure infalliable truth.
YAQUBOS, don’t dance around the question, where is your faith in Gods love for us that he would ensure that everyone from the time of Christs death to the present and into the future would have the opportunity of learning the true interpretation of Gods scripture.
In Christ
Tim
Do you not understand, that the ONLY WAY FOR US TO KNOW THE TRUTH IS IF GOD HAS INFALLIABLY ENSURED IT, THAT IS THE ONLY OPTION. The only thing to decide is WHO did God guide to esnure infalliable truth.
YAQUBOS, don’t dance around the question, where is your faith in Gods love for us that he would ensure that everyone from the time of Christs death to the present and into the future would have the opportunity of learning the true interpretation of Gods scripture.
In Christ
Tim
K
kepha1
Guest
Nowhere in the entire bible is “priesthood” not associated with sacrifice. Jesus interceeds for us to the Father perpetually. His priesthood is perpetual, His intercession is perpetual. All legitimate priesthood comes from Christ. Priests act as a stand in for Christ during Mass, and offer a sacrifice to the Father, which must be eaten as forshadowed in the Judaic/Hebrew Toda Sacrifice.
Jesus offers Himself perpetually in the Temple of heaven before the Father, not a one time event. His sacrifice on the cross was historically a one time event, but to say the ordained priests are not an extension of His Priesthood, and to say His Priesthood is a one time event, and His perpetual intercession to the Father just occurs once, is a lie.
Jesus links His very Body and Blood, in the form of bread and wine, with His Incarnation. (see John 6) To deny He is the Lamb of God, which must be eaten, which He repeated over and over and over again, is to deny the Incarnation itself, the doctrine of the anti-Christ. See 1 John 4, 2 John 1
The Mass is the joining of heaven and earth. It requires supernatural faith to receive, not by understanding with the faith of the flesh.
kepha1
Jesus offers Himself perpetually in the Temple of heaven before the Father, not a one time event. His sacrifice on the cross was historically a one time event, but to say the ordained priests are not an extension of His Priesthood, and to say His Priesthood is a one time event, and His perpetual intercession to the Father just occurs once, is a lie.
Jesus links His very Body and Blood, in the form of bread and wine, with His Incarnation. (see John 6) To deny He is the Lamb of God, which must be eaten, which He repeated over and over and over again, is to deny the Incarnation itself, the doctrine of the anti-Christ. See 1 John 4, 2 John 1
The Mass is the joining of heaven and earth. It requires supernatural faith to receive, not by understanding with the faith of the flesh.
kepha1
K
kepha1
Guest
Those who follow shallow arrogant anti-Catholic web sites to argue on a Catholic discussion board suffer from pharisaical vanity and are indisposed to the truth.
K
kepha1
Guest
*Do this in remembrance of me. *
Touto poiete eis tan emain anamnesin.
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”;
Remembrance is used in the context of a sacrifice made present in perpetuity, not a sentimental custom. “offer this as my memorial sacrifice” is what He means. The sacrifice is the memorial or reminder. Not the reminder by itself.
Heb. 13:15 - “sacrifice of praise” or “toda” refers to the thanksgiving offerings of Lev. 7:12-15; 22:29-30
The Todah Sacrifice (c) Copyright Martin K. Barrack 1999. All rights reserved.
The ancient Jews had a special ritual meal called the Todah (Hebrew: thanks). The Todah sacrificed an animal, but it was greater than other animal sacrifices because it added the suffering of one’s own life.
Our Father in heaven was slowly preparing His covenant children for the move from animal sacrifices to the Final Sacrifice. (Ps 40:6,8) “Burnt offering and sin offering Thou hast not required. … I delight to do Thy will, O my God; Thy law is within my heart.”
Again, David wrote, (Ps 51:17) “The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit.” And again, (Ps 69:30) “I will praise the name of God with a song; I will magnify Him with thanksgiving. This will please the Lord more than an ox or a bull with horns and hoofs.”
Isaiah spoke the words of God, (Is 1:11) “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams.” God called instead for a baptism: (Is 1:16) “Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your doings from My eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good.”
The ancient rabbis believed that when the Messiah would come all sacrifices except the Todah would cease, but the Todah would continue for all eternity. In 70 AD the Temple fell to earth and all of the bloody animal sacrifices stopped.
Only the Todah remains, the eucharistia, the Final Sacrifice at which the last words spoken are Todah l’Adonai, “Thanks be to God.”
http://www.ourgardenofcarmel.org/marty.html
What are the last words spoken at Mass?
"Thanks be to God."
YAQUBOS, Please explain to me how any Protestant communion service is more biblical than the Mass.
See also scripturecatholic.com/revelation_and_the_mass.html
kepha1
Touto poiete eis tan emain anamnesin.
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”;
Remembrance is used in the context of a sacrifice made present in perpetuity, not a sentimental custom. “offer this as my memorial sacrifice” is what He means. The sacrifice is the memorial or reminder. Not the reminder by itself.
Heb. 13:15 - “sacrifice of praise” or “toda” refers to the thanksgiving offerings of Lev. 7:12-15; 22:29-30
The Todah Sacrifice (c) Copyright Martin K. Barrack 1999. All rights reserved.
The ancient Jews had a special ritual meal called the Todah (Hebrew: thanks). The Todah sacrificed an animal, but it was greater than other animal sacrifices because it added the suffering of one’s own life.
Our Father in heaven was slowly preparing His covenant children for the move from animal sacrifices to the Final Sacrifice. (Ps 40:6,8) “Burnt offering and sin offering Thou hast not required. … I delight to do Thy will, O my God; Thy law is within my heart.”
Again, David wrote, (Ps 51:17) “The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit.” And again, (Ps 69:30) “I will praise the name of God with a song; I will magnify Him with thanksgiving. This will please the Lord more than an ox or a bull with horns and hoofs.”
Isaiah spoke the words of God, (Is 1:11) “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams.” God called instead for a baptism: (Is 1:16) “Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your doings from My eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good.”
The ancient rabbis believed that when the Messiah would come all sacrifices except the Todah would cease, but the Todah would continue for all eternity. In 70 AD the Temple fell to earth and all of the bloody animal sacrifices stopped.
Only the Todah remains, the eucharistia, the Final Sacrifice at which the last words spoken are Todah l’Adonai, “Thanks be to God.”
http://www.ourgardenofcarmel.org/marty.html
What are the last words spoken at Mass?
"Thanks be to God."
YAQUBOS, Please explain to me how any Protestant communion service is more biblical than the Mass.
See also scripturecatholic.com/revelation_and_the_mass.html
kepha1
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
Church Militant:
As for me, I prefer to see the interpretation of God in His Word.
The Word is clear for those who have eyes to see.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Church Militant:
In each doctrine, you accept the interpretation of SOME fathers, because they didn’t always agree in everything.
As for me, I prefer to see the interpretation of God in His Word.
The Word is clear for those who have eyes to see.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
M
mlchance
Guest
How convenient, if not quite self-serving, that you have such eyes, whereas the rest of us much content ourselves by trusting in the authority of the Church that Christ Jesus established.
– Mark L. Chance.
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YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
Luke1:48:
Answer this question about worthy manner, and we’ll see if it does not go against the Bible…
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Luke1:48:
That’s what I understood long ago… and I was trying to understand what it means to come to that ONE SACRIFICE in a WORTHY manner. Because the apostle Paul says that we must not eat the bread and drink the cup in an unworthy manner…
Answer this question about worthy manner, and we’ll see if it does not go against the Bible…
In Love,
Yaqubos†
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YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
Luke1:48:
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Luke1:48:
Dear diamond, I conclude that the ONE Sacrifice of Jesus Christ is not offered for the pagans. Right?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
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YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
mercygate:
Believe me: I UNDERSTOOD what you want to say.
But why don’t you explain a little how you can come to that SAME Sacrifice in a WORTHY manner?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
BEAUTIFUL!
Believe me: I UNDERSTOOD what you want to say.
But why don’t you explain a little how you can come to that SAME Sacrifice in a WORTHY manner?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
Tim Hayes:
Tim Hayes:
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Tim Hayes:
God. Read the Scripture, and you will see how He interprets His Scripture.
Tim Hayes:
That’s why God gave you His Word. His Word is INFALLIBLE.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
kepha1:
As for me, I believe that all churches’ Communion is biblical as long as you don’t forget that the Sacrifice was offered ONCE FOR ALL on the Cross. So if I eat the Bread and drink the Cup in any church AFTER having LIFE by that ONCE FOR ALL Sacrifice, then no problem.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
You must ask a Protestant.
As for me, I believe that all churches’ Communion is biblical as long as you don’t forget that the Sacrifice was offered ONCE FOR ALL on the Cross. So if I eat the Bread and drink the Cup in any church AFTER having LIFE by that ONCE FOR ALL Sacrifice, then no problem.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
mlchance:
“But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.” ( 1 John 2:20 )
“We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ This is the true God and eternal life.” ( 1 John 5:19-20 )
You don’t have to continue in your uncertain thoughts. You can KNOW Him TODAY. He is the Truth.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
How convenient to SUPPOSE that I have such eyes, while I just believe what God says:
“But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.” ( 1 John 2:20 )
“We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ This is the true God and eternal life.” ( 1 John 5:19-20 )
You don’t have to continue in your uncertain thoughts. You can KNOW Him TODAY. He is the Truth.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
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