Is the Republican party truly pro-life?

[DarkLight]

The same sort of thing can be said for Democrats–welfare is structured to be difficult to get out of, and so they seem to keep that as their issue on which to get elected.

If abortion were off the table, I might still vote Republican (even tho they drive me up a wall sometimes!) because they seem more interested in giving the poor a helping hand out of poverty.

Republicans also seem more interested in keeping jobs here and in keeping them for citizens and permanent residents, and just generally keeping an eye on how actual people are managing.

Neither party is perfect, but I think, if abortion were off the table, that the back-and-forth between the Democrats who want to care for poor people in perpetuity and the Republicans who want to reduce welfare spending as much as possible would keep us in a good middle regarding the poor.

I always found this interesting because my view of what the parties are doing is 100% the opposite. Absolutely no one has an actual goal of keeping people on welfare.

Republicans are keeping more people on welfare by having harsh cutoffs that encourage people to stay below the line out of fear of losing support. A big problem with our current system is the “donut hole” effect, where assistance cutoffs are lower than what a family needs to survive, thus keeping them on welfare. These policies are generally enacted by conservatives who are concerned about people who don’t deserve welfare. Republicans are also enacting a lot of policies that encourage the proliferation of low wage jobs. Most welfare recipients are in households with at least one working adult, after all, and most welfare recipients who are considered able to work are working. Of those who aren’t, most are only in that status for a short time. So there really isn’t this huge class of adults who could be working but are living off of welfare instead. Much more commonly we’re seeing people who are working, but aren’t making enough to live off of, especially once you exclude children and the permanently disabled from the statistics.

Democrats are more supportive of programs that encourage people to get a leg up rather than seeking to cut off as many people as possible as soon as possible. They’re also more interested in economic structures that would support well paying jobs and the ability to live independently, rather than more low wage jobs that mostly funnel more money into the pockets of billionaires. They’re also more supportive of laws that would allow increased access for those with disabilities, flexible policies that would assist working parents in being able to hold down a job, and so forth. These are the kind of things that actually encourage people to get off welfare. I’ve been in the system before and the more conservative areas it’s definitely actually harder, because it’s much easier to lose support by taking any steps to improve your life and end up losing the help you need to keep going.

 

[Annie]

This is very interesting information; I will have to look into it. Thank you, and Hi DarkLight, good to “see” you

 

[ltwin]

Post secondary education has been steadily increasing in price and I don’t mean just University education. Even the vocational schools are increasing in price. Some high schools do some vocational training but not all. Are there still apprenticeships out there?

America does a poor job of training students for careers outside of higher ed. It used to be that students decided to take one of 2 tracks: Tech Prep or College Prep. Tech Prep was seen as locking kids out of the possibility of a college education, so it was dropped. Now, everyone takes College Prep even if they have no intention or desire to go to college.

In other countries (I’m thinking of Germany in particular), they have an education model that incorporates apprenticeships and on-the-job training within the education system. At least in my state, I don’t see anything like that. We have a few Career and Technology courses (health science, agriculture, fire-fighting, business/finance, cosmetology), but with the exception of the CNA licensure program, the fire-fighter training and cosmetology, students don’t get any actual on the job training.

Why should we deny help to people who have been thrown a rock and told to swim upstream?

Well, one thing we need to do is recognize that the reason college has become so expensive is because of government distortion of the “market.” In previous decades, people go to college and pay for it while working. Once federal education loans became available, colleges started jacking up the prices and building unnecessary attractions because they knew that federal loans would allow students to afford it.

So, this is one reason why fiscally conservative Republicans warn people to stop and think of all the unintended consequences that government intervention in any economic sphere will create. Yes, we all want more people to go to college and to have access to healthcare, etc. The question is how can we do that in a way that will actually accomplish that goal. In the case of higher education, federal policies have allowed more people to get degrees but are they financially better off with mountains of debt?

 

[kapp19]

I’m here asking how do we justify Republicans as truly pro-life.

I’ve not read the thread - though I am sure many have gone to address the facts and theory of some of the objections in your OP (which are not necessarily accurate or problematic in the way they might seem) - but the real question is whether a party is useful for promoting common flourishing. This is the primary consideration. There could be issues of scandal in some cases, but in the USA it would not typically be an issue in this instance of officially affiliating with the GOP, except in some extraordinary circumstance.

 

[Anesis]

Pro Life isn’t only about abortion. It’s also about allowing human beings to live dignified lives until natural death.

None of the things you mentioned are the “fault” of anyone. We have an immigration policy, just like every other country. Forcing your way in has consequences. What do you expect us to do with them? Just like other countries, we put them in holding areas until they are processed, then they are housed, given medical care & legal counsel - free. No one forced them to come here & break the law.

As for the children - they were separated from their parents when their parents somehow scraped together $5000,gave it to a stranger & handed their little child over & said bye. Those who survive the trip are stopped at the border & not put in cages - those are processing areas to keep them separated while agents are trying to figure out where to house these kids, where their parents are, etc. They stay there for several hours & then are moved to a shelter. Otherwise these kids end up being trafficked into sex slavery. I personally am very thankful they take those kids from their “parents” (coyotes who are the traffickers of drugs & humans).

Welfare is meant to be a temporary solution for an emergency,not a lifestyle. Welfare has destroyed the black community. Research on this, read up on why democrats created & push the welfare system so hard. It’s not the responsibility of the gov’t to support financially support its citizens.

BLM is a farce. Their goal has nothing to do with black people, but instead to destroy the family, because families make strong communities which can’t be easily controlled. They are a Marxist group. People don’t need to hear they are victims of “racists” but instead need to hear that they are creating their own problems be tearing each other down.

Climate change = population control. Understand that overpopulation is the central concern of environmentalism environmentalists, not the climate or the earth. The agenda we know today began with the first International Conference on Population, held in 1974 at Budapest, & the 2nd (under the banner of “Population & Dev’t”) in Mexico City in 1984. Yes, this Climate Change “emergency” that’s “just around the corner” has been going on for 46 years now!! The ideas these groups are advocating will destroy billions of lives through disease and famine. Climate change is only about clearing the earth of undesirable people, thought to be inherently of low intelligence & lacking impulse control.

Stop listening to the mainstream media & go outside of Google products & do some real research. You may be surprised what you find.

Unfortunately, if Biden manages to “find” enough votes to win this election, life as we know it will be over. He’s said time & again that he’s just the transitional president. He has no intention to serve his term. Kamala Harris will. You claimed you’re against racism & fascism? You’re not going to be happy with what she has planned for us.

 

[Dracarys]

It is a biggie, but is it big enough to outweigh all other issues?

What other issues? Under President Trump pre COVID personal incomes have increased, unemployment decreased to all time lows, great strides have been made for peace in the middle east. President Trump never gets credit for the many good things he did. A President is only allowed to do certain things and he has done well.

It’s not specious, because if neither party truly wants to ban abortion then the choice of which one to choose must be made based on other matters. There have been several Republican presidents who have got to serve two terms in a row, and yet we’re no closer to overturning Roe c Wade

You really don’t seem to know how things work. A President can’t overturn Roe. He can appoint supreme court justices who he thinks are pro life and President Trump has just made another excellent choice with Justice Barett.

Biden wants to codify Roe V Wade, he supports partial birth abortion, he wants taxpayers to pay for it all. Do you really see no difference?..Really?

 

[Dracarys]

Unfortunately, if Biden manages to “find” enough votes to win this election, life as we know it will be over. He’s said time & again that he’s just the transitional president. He has no intention to serve his term. Kamala Harris will. You claimed you’re against racism & fascism? You’re not going to be happy with what she has planned for us.

Unfortunately you are right, and it looks like Biden/Harris or is it Harris/Biden is going to be in power. Fortunately Republicans hold the Senate.

 

[Dracarys]

America does a poor job of training students for careers outside of higher ed. I

It’s not the job of government to train students. This is the responsibility of the individual to train themselves. It’s all up to YOU.

 

[ltwin]

It’s not the job of government to train students. This is the responsibility of the individual to train themselves. It’s all up to YOU.

The government already trains students in public schools to do things such as read and write and do math. Once you get into high school, students should have the opportunity to learn a profitable trade if they decide that college is not for them.

Industries already complain that high school graduates are not prepared for real world work. It would benefit everyone if businesses formed partnerships with schools to create apprenticeship programs. Students can choose particular trades to learn while still in high school and by the time they graduate they already have an entry level job lined up.

 

[po18guy]

Obama reportedly deported millions and absolutely used those same cages. (silence)
A “welfare” system should build human dignity.
Climate change = secular religion. Being good stewards of creation = Catholic.
Paid Marxist anarchists (racial separatists) have forced agreement with them. The big lie.

1. CANCEL the media - they are programming us how to think - if we allow it.
2. You cannot offer social services, climate programs, guaranteed income and free medical care to balance the blood of the unborn innocents.
3. As dysfunctional as one major party is, it has not embraced socialism/Marxism/progressivism, death and all manner of confusion and immorality such as the opposing party.
4. CANCEL the media.

 

[Sarcelle]

You cannot offer social services, climate programs, guaranteed income and free medical care to balance the blood of the unborn innocents.

You can do both you know. They’re not mutually exclusive.

If birth is to be encouraged why is the cost of childbirth so high?

How Much Does It Cost to Have a Baby in the US?

 

[JimG]

The government already trains students in public schools to do things such as read and write and do math. Once you get into high school, students should have the opportunity to learn a profitable trade if they decide that college is not for them.

Industries already complain that high school graduates are not prepared for real world work. It would benefit everyone if businesses formed partnerships with schools to create apprenticeship programs. Students can choose particular trades to learn while still in high school and by the time they graduate they already have an entry level job lined up.

That’s a good idea. But I think that high school guidance counselors have been trained by everybody in the educational system, including parents, to guide students to four year colleges. This is something that Mike Rowe was always complaining about, even testifying before Congress.

 

[Wesrock]

I have not read through this topic, but I think we need to be careful about letting secular liberalism co-opt the term pro-life from us. And I write that as someone who tends to be in favor of a regulated market economy and welfare state and tend to side with liberals more on criminal justice issues.

These other topics, such as the death penalty and social security and support for single parents/families – which I’m in favor of, mind you – are not on the same level as abortion. Abortion is a sin against nature, a gross perversion, an intrinsic evil. The other topics are not, even if I think we have great practical and prudential reason for them.

 

[goout]

I have not read through this topic, but I think we need to be careful about letting secular liberalism co-opt the term pro-life from us. And I write that as someone who tends to be in favor of a regulated market economy and welfare state and tend to side with liberals more on criminal justice issues.

These other topics, such as the death penalty and social security and support for single parents/families – which I’m in favor of, mind you – are not on the same level as abortion. Abortion is a sin against nature, a gross perversion, an intrinsic evil. The other topics are not, even if I think we have great practical and prudential reason for them.

I tend to be on the same page. I try to incorporate the Church’s values across the board, which frequently puts me at odds with people from both camps.

What really terrifies me is to think of this country 50 years from now when the depravity and barbarism of abortion comes to roost. And I think the reason it is so insidious is, there are no mass graves available for people to file past and hold their noses at the stench.

 

[goout]

po18guy:

You cannot offer social services, climate programs, guaranteed income and free medical care to balance the blood of the unborn innocents.

You can do both you know. They’re not mutually exclusive.

If birth is to be encouraged why is the cost of childbirth so high?

How Much Does It Cost to Have a Baby in the US?

The cost of a thing has many factors. The cost of benefits a society is willing to extend spreads to the whole economy. And that includes the costs of hospital usage and personnel from top to bottom.
Human welfare is costly, as it should be. It’s our responsibility to promote human welfare. But you have to first value human life, or else the human rights and benefits are really meaningless and only for those powerful enough to get them. And there is nothing human about that.

 

[benjammin]

It’s obvious the republicans have more pro life policies and members, but they are jhuman like anyone else. You have a few who are open about being pro choice. You also have those who say they are pro life but for whom it’s not a major issue. I also think you have a lot of politicians and individuals members who are hypocrites. People who either say they are pro life but act another way in private or people who play up their pro life stance but effectively don’t care. I’d also add people who use contraception are not truly pro life, at least if they are catholic.

So basically the party is better, but it depends on the person. I’ll also say that at times I feel like there isn’t enough emphasis on changing culture. Laws must change but without a cultural change it won’t matter.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

The Republican party may not be truly pro-life, but it is not explicitly pro-death either, which can be said of the DNC (the party platform of which confirms a belief in abortion).

Disclaimer: I am also a member of a third party (meaning I am neither Republican nor Democrat).

 

[meltzerboy2]

Doesn’t the term pro-life, in its restricted sense, also apply to euthanasia and to contraception?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It’s not specious, because if neither party truly wants to ban abortion then the choice of which one to choose must be made based on other matters. There have been several Republican presidents who have got to serve two terms in a row, and yet we’re no closer to overturning Roe v Wade.

Democrats are guilty of not doing things either, places where Democrats reign like New York and California are not the paragons of progress that it would seem they would be.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

But you have to first value human life, or else the human rights and benefits are really meaningless and only for those powerful enough to get them. And there is nothing human about that.

I think this is one of those things where both should be embraced at the same time since they both help each other.