Is the silent treatment acceptable? (Womanly opinions welcome...I can't really read women's minds)

[LilyM]

I can give you an answer in very few words.

Read my recent posts.

I can read, I have read. Even if she said she likes you, I see no particular indication that it’s a romantic attachment. And even if it were, the benefits of pursuing such an attachment thus far have well and truly been outweighed by the cost to you, and there’s nothing in her situation that indicates that that would change on getting to know her.

 

[Belgarion]

There’s your incentive! I’m going to be just horribly devastated Weds. night if you don’t do it crying and then I won’t be able to sleep so I’ll be tired the next day for work yawn so I won’t be able to do a good job and then I’ll be so tired Thursday night that I’ll miss Adoration …

So the rest of my week is in your hands … Don’t mess with it!!! :nunchuk:

LOL
OK OK!! I’ll do my best! don’t worry!..Ok…worry…lol

I can read, I have read. Even if she said she likes you, I see no particular indication that it’s a romantic attachment. And even if it were, the benefits of pursuing such an attachment thus far have well and truly been outweighed by the cost to you, and there’s nothing in her situation that indicates that that would change on getting to know her.

And there you have lost any credibility on this matter.

First, when she was asked “Who do you like” Its a pretty straightforward question, especially when it was about romantic attachment. She then said it was me (SSH! Don’t tell anyone!)

And its your opinion that the benefits have been outweighed by the cost. I respect that its your opinion. However, its wonderful to know that you think that she’s not worth it.
But then again, you’re not me.

And there’s plenty that would change. Either we keep going or we don’t. That’s a change. Either courtship in a year (or less) or I’m walking.
You seem to be forgetting that I’ve made my decision. I’m going to write her, or talk to her. I just want to know why you keep pressing the issue, despite me making that decision to get the truth out of her.

 

[LilyM]

And there you have lost any credibility on this matter.

First, when she was asked “Who do you like” Its a pretty straightforward question, especially when it was about romantic attachment. She then said it was me (SSH! Don’t tell anyone!)

That’s how we approached romance in our pre-teen years - ‘Like, I REAAALY think this guy’s cute n’ all that, but you’d better not tell him, because, like, if he ever found out I’d be, like, SOOO embarrassed and everything!’.

She may be chronologically 20, but emotionally she’s not even reached the late teens yet.

And its your opinion that the benefits have been outweighed by the cost. I respect that its your opinion. However, its wonderful to know that you think that she’s not worth it.
But then again, you’re not me.

It’s not opinion. It’s experience from having pursued unattainable guys who, on further examination, had the primary attraction of BEING unattainble, and absolutely were not worth the emotional energy I invested in them. The people worth knowing, the ones worth marrying, are the ones who neither hide their feelings nor play games, nor paralyse themselves with fear or inertia or what-have-you.

And there’s plenty that would change. Either we keep going or we don’t. That’s a change. Either courtship ***in a year (or less) or I’m walking. ***

A year or less? ‘The suspense is killing me, I hope it lasts’, as Oscar Wilde says. Heck, that’d already be three years of your life gone on this girl, why not make it an even five, or better still a round dozen. More entertainment value that way.

You seem to be forgetting that I’ve made my decision. I’m going to write her, or talk to her. I just want to know why you keep pressing the issue, despite me making that decision to get the truth out of her.

You’ve made your decision? Excuse me for not rejoicing unrestrainedly at the idea of you finally doing something you should’ve done a long while ago. And excuse me again for saying that you don’t come across as having a single decisive bone in your body, so I’ll believe it when I hear that it’s happened.

 

[Belgarion]

That’s how we approached romance in our pre-teen years - ‘Like, I REAAALY think this guy’s cute n’ all that, but you’d better not tell him, because, like, if he ever found out I’d be, like, SOOO embarrassed and everything!’.

She may be chronologically 20, but emotionally she’s not even reached the late teens yet.

BTW, the “Sshh don’t tell anyone” was me, not her.
So if that’s your point, its invalid.

It’s not opinion. It’s experience from having pursued unattainable guys who, on further examination, had the primary attraction of BEING unattainble, and absolutely were not worth the emotional energy I invested in them. The people worth knowing, the ones worth marrying, are the ones who neither hide their feelings nor play games, nor paralyse themselves with fear or inertia or what-have-you.

Guys have ego problems. She doesn’t. In fact, they have some framed thing that encourages self-less behavior, even in conversation.
Even though I don’t want to romanticize rescue, she DOES need a wake-up call. It’d be stupid to not try to do that before I decide to give up.

A year or less? ‘The suspense is killing me, I hope it lasts’, as Oscar Wilde says. Heck, that’d already be three years of your life gone on this girl, why not make it an even five, or better still a round dozen. More entertainment value that way.

Definitely. Your nonsense is VERY entertaining. Promise me you’ll stick around.

You’ve made your decision? Excuse me for not rejoicing unrestrainedly at the idea of you finally doing something you should’ve done a long while ago. And excuse me again for saying that you don’t come across as having a single decisive bone in your body, so I’ll believe it when I hear that it’s happened.

Well, excuse me for not caring about anything you say. Sure, I should have done something a while ago, but I wouldn’t be sure of anything at that point. Plus, I wouldn’t be as ready as I am now.
Maybe I am indecisive. Oh well. But your opinion matters not.
Plus, I wouldn’t call this an issue with indecision.

You’re going to love it when its happened. But I’m sure you’ll find something else to whine about.

 

[ghssd]

trade9shoes.com

 

[LilyM]

BTW, the “Sshh don’t tell anyone” was me, not her.
So if that’s your point, its invalid.

Fair enough if that’s the case. Doesn’t explain away all the other myriad evidences of immaturity in the behaviour you’ve described to us, of course.

Guys have ego problems. She doesn’t. In fact, they have some framed thing that encourages self-less behavior, even in conversation.
Even though I don’t want to romanticize rescue, she DOES need a wake-up call. It’d be stupid to not try to do that before I decide to give up.

Yeah, leaving you in limbo is so very unselfish.

Definitely. Your nonsense is VERY entertaining. Promise me you’ll stick around.

Nonsense to tell you (as I was trying) that you’ve drawn this out for two years for one reason only. Which is that it pays off for you? Of course it does - in spades, which is why you haven’t done anything yet.

You get the drama and romantic daydreams of a thwarted love without the heavy dose of reality - and effort - that a mature adult relationship brings with it.

Well, excuse me for not caring about anything you say. Sure, I should have done something a while ago, but I wouldn’t be sure of anything at that point. Plus, I wouldn’t be as ready as I am now. Maybe I am indecisive. Oh well. But your opinion matters not.
Plus, I wouldn’t call this an issue with indecision.

And yet you keep responding to my points, funny for someone who doesn’t care what I think. Are you telling me that even six months or a year ago you were unsure of either her or of your own feelings towards her?

‘Maybe I am indecisive … I wouldn’t call this an issue with indecision’. Contradictory much? This is absolutely an issue with indecision, yours and hers. One of you has got to be decisive. She being apparently completely INdecisive, if she hasn’t actually decided against you, means you’ve got to have enough decision for the both of you. I see no evidence of that so far, though I’m more than happy to be proven wrong.

You’re going to love it when its happened. But I’m sure you’ll find something else to whine about.

Not a bit of it, because if it happens it will mean that something you’ve read here - possibly my own posts playing some part - has finally lit a fire under your wishy-washy butt and set you on the path to mature adulthood. Like I said, whether it has remains to be proven.

 

[ghssd]

trade9shoes.com

 

[Belgarion]

Fair enough if that’s the case. Doesn’t explain away all the other myriad evidences of immaturity in the behaviour you’ve described to us, of course.

Immaturity that I won’t tolerate, mind you.

Yeah, leaving you in limbo is so very unselfish.

Oh, he’s definitely selfish. I know that.
I just don’t think she has much of a choice. But that’s why I need to give one to her.

Nonsense to tell you (as I was trying) that you’ve drawn this out for two years for one reason only. Which is that it pays off for you? Of course it does - in spades, which is why you haven’t done anything yet.

Yeah, because its all about me isn’t it? I may not be daydreaming of rescuing her, but I DO think that it takes two.
That point aside, my inaction was due to respect. But it wasn’t until recently that my impatience ( and whatever else I feel) overcame my desire to do this “the right way”

You get the drama and romantic daydreams of a thwarted love without the heavy dose of reality - and effort - that a mature adult relationship brings with it.

I’d hardly call it romantic to only be able to talk with her while someone is listening in.
This is not real relationship like I want, but there’s nothing immature about it.

And yet you keep responding to my points, funny for someone who doesn’t care what I think. Are you telling me that even six months or a year ago you were unsure of either her or of your own feelings towards her?

No, I wouldn’t be sure of how I felt about the entire situation.

‘Maybe I am indecisive … I wouldn’t call this an issue with indecision’. Contradictory much?

Nope. I may be indecisive, but that’s not the issue now, is it?
Especially since I’ve MADE the decision.

This is absolutely an issue with indecision, yours and hers. One of you has got to be decisive. She being apparently completely INdecisive, if she hasn’t actually decided against you, means you’ve got to have enough decision for the both of you. I see no evidence of that so far, though I’m more than happy to be proven wrong.

Well, it appears not EVERYTHING you say is wrong.
Good point. Regardless, however, of if she is indecisive or not, I’ll still need to take the same action.

Not a bit of it, because if it happens it will mean that something you’ve read here - possibly my own posts playing some part - has finally lit a fire under your wishy-washy butt and set you on the path to mature adulthood. Like I said, whether it has remains to be proven.

Can you show me exactly where it was suggested that I write a letter?
Or did I come up with that on my own?..Hmm…Not sure

 

[LilyM]

Immaturity that I won’t tolerate, mind you.

You’ve tolerated it for two years, and you’ve indicated that you are prepared to tolerate it for another year. The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour, as any psychologist could tell you. Just saying …

Oh, he’s definitely selfish. I know that.
I just don’t think she has much of a choice. But that’s why I need to give one to her.

No choice to tell you face to face how she feels about you when she can apparently tell other people? I’m not buying that for a second.

Yeah, because its all about me isn’t it? I may not be daydreaming of rescuing her, but I DO think that it takes two.
That point aside, my inaction was due to respect. But it wasn’t until recently that my impatience ( and whatever else I feel) overcame my desire to do this “the right way”

It’s not ‘doing things the right way’ to let her stay under the thumb of an unreasonably controlling father, nor is it ‘doing things the right way’ in any event to let this drag on for two years without resolution. You’re showing no respect to her or yourself either way.

I’d hardly call it romantic to only be able to talk with her while someone is listening in.
This is not real relationship like I want, but there’s nothing immature about it.

You’ve said she’s already told others how she feels about you, so why on earth NOT talk to her with others (apart from her father) listening? Especially if it’s your only option, as it would seem to be, and you genuinely like her?

No, I wouldn’t be sure of how I felt about the entire situation.
Nope. I may be indecisive, but that’s not the issue now, is it?
Especially since I’ve MADE the decision.

Hun, I decide every few weeks to go on a diet and decide every few weeks to exercise more. Making decisions is easy. Following through is the killer, and it will be an issue for you as it is for me. Like I said, the best indicator of future behaviour …

Well, it appears not EVERYTHING you say is wrong.
Good point. Regardless, however, of if she is indecisive or not, I’ll still need to take the same action.

Glad you finally realise that .

Yeah, just make sure you do take action. Two years is way more than long enough already.

Can you show me exactly where it was suggested that I write a letter?
Or did I come up with that on my own?..Hmm…Not sure

Read the title of the thread. You were considering giving her the ‘silent treatment’. The opposite of writing a letter, in fact. And other posters were the first to suggest communication of any kind, certainly not you.

 

[Belgarion]

You’ve tolerated it for two years, and you’ve indicated that you are prepared to tolerate it for another year. The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour, as any psychologist could tell you. Just saying …

Yeah, I’m prepared to tolerate it with some concessions on their part.
And the best indicator of future behavior IS past behavior…when it comes to addictions, or bad habits.
For example, I procrastinated in the 5th grade, I procrastinate now. I’ll likely procrastinate later.
But I wet my bed when I was 5, I don’t do it now.
On an even stronger level, I would habitually play hours and hours of video games. It started to affect my schoolwork. I don’t do that anymore. Sure I play, but not at an unhealthy level. (Yeah, its a flawed analogy, but you get the basic idea)

No choice to tell you face to face how she feels about you when she can apparently tell other people? I’m not buying that for a second.

Well, there are no rules against telling this person. Let’s just leave it at that.

It’s not ‘doing things the right way’ to let her stay under the thumb of an unreasonably controlling father, nor is it ‘doing things the right way’ in any event to let this drag on for two years without resolution. You’re showing no respect to her or yourself either way.

Wht if she respected me respecting her father, therefore it was respecting her?
kidding aside, its up to her, not me. I can’t tell her to move out, and get out from under her father’s thumb. She does what she thinks is right, and if that includes letting me be someone she can’t live without, good. But if she thinks that I’m not that important (After all, you can love someone, and still be indecisive as you said) then don’t expect me to stick around. Of course, I’m SURE she’ll try to find some middle ground, and it might work…but it might not…We won’t know til we try. We’ve already tried THIS current method, and it doesn’t work for me.

You’ve said she’s already told others how she feels about you, so why on earth NOT talk to her with others (apart from her father) listening? Especially if it’s your only option, as it would seem to be, and you genuinely like her?

Because apparently its not proper…or somesuch nonsene.

However, whichever opportunity presents itself, I will take. whether that be talking to her, or giving the letter.

Hun, I decide every few weeks to go on a diet and decide every few weeks to exercise more. Making decisions is easy. Following through is the killer, and it will be an issue for you as it is for me. Like I said, the best indicator of future behaviour …

of course. I will resolve to go to bed earlier…but then decide to stay up.
These are little things. The only thing I can foresee being a problem that would prevent me from actually DOING something (aside from familial interference) is my nervousness…But hey, you gotta step up if you want things to work.

Glad you finally realise that .

Civilized conversation is better…can we keep that up?

Yeah, just make sure you do take action. Two years is way more than long enough already.

Sure, but to be honest, I’ve waited for someone for 5 years.
LOL
That was a little different, and it was waiting in name only. I liked a girl, and was waiting till my family’s dating age. But by the time it came around, it kinda faded…DUH!! I barely knew her (THAT was what I meant when I said that I understood what its like to love an idea of someone…Well, that and some other times. You have no idea how long it took me to learn that lesson.)

Read the title of the thread. You were considering giving her the ‘silent treatment’. The opposite of writing a letter, in fact. And other posters were the first to suggest communication of any kind, certainly not you.

Actually, I wasn’t CONSIDERING. I was DOING.
And one of the first things I talked to my mom (and sister) about what writing a letter.
But yeah, the others said to communicate. I was just thinking specifically.

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

So that’s three people, including LilyM, who you’ve been rude to. Two of those people are your elder [sorry ladies ] so at minimum you should be respectful of that. And being rude to a peer for attempting to help isn’t cool.

Okeday. So we have “I like Ryan” and staring/blushing. … along with all this other stuff. I would say a crush, at minimum. See, I “like” people too. A complete passing fancy that only appears when I am in the area of the person, and usually forget about it when I’m no longer in sight. By no means do I love these guys, and they don’t compare to my love at all.

And you’ve waited two years on wanting to court her. When did she say that she liked you? It may be that she doesn’t any longer- passing fancies by definition do pass.

You seem completely hung up on her. And yes, of course, I’m being rude and the like again, but you’re being immature for the thousanth time. As can be seen by your own rude comments to others. You’ll give her another year and you’ll walk? I doubt it.

I’m done trying to give you whatever metaphorical shove you need to call her. I think you’re both too immature and need to grow up before this goes any further. Maybe that’s why the dad is waiting?

And again, look at everyone’s posts. At least three outright have told you that things may not be fine and dandy. You apparently then lose respect for our opinions and they are no longer welcome. Two of those people are adults, who yes, have actually seen the world. And one is your age.

Wish you the best

 

[Belgarion]

So that’s three people, including LilyM, who you’ve been rude to. Two of those people are your elder [sorry ladies ] so at minimum you should be respectful of that. And being rude to a peer for attempting to help isn’t cool.

Yeeaaah…This is helpful:

Pro-Life_Teen:

Yes it is. It’s more not effective to sit online and talk to us about how hopeless the situation is.
…

You’re following her around like a puppy while her dad glares at you.

…

etc. etc

Not to mention all the times you don’t bother to listen, and make me repeat myself, then berate me like I hadn’t already made the decision to talk/write to her.
Whew…I suppose I have the wrong dictionary…Because the definition of helpful sounds a lot better than what you’re doing.

Okeday. So we have “I like Ryan” and staring/blushing. … along with all this other stuff. I would say a crush, at minimum. See, I “like” people too. A complete passing fancy that only appears when I am in the area of the person, and usually forget about it when I’m no longer in sight. By no means do I love these guys, and they don’t compare to my love at all.

Minimum. Whatever. But hey, if that turns out to be true (Which it isn’t, good Lord) then I’m going to enjoy my “goodbye”!

And you’ve waited two years on wanting to court her. When did she say that she liked you? It may be that she doesn’t any longer- passing fancies by definition do pass.

Actually, she said it RIGHT before I talked to him last…So…That was…I’m trying to remember…Well, I think it was a year and a half into it. And when I talked to her bro about it the first time, he already knew what was going on…And that was a month at most before I asked her dad’s permission…So that’s a long “passing fancy”…

You seem completely hung up on her. And yes, of course, I’m being rude and the like again, but you’re being immature for the thousanth time. As can be seen by your own rude comments to others.

oops, I have a HUGE flaw… I am rude to those who are rude to ME!!

You’ll give her another year and you’ll walk? I doubt it.

Does your illiteracy know no bounds? Or are you just forgetting to replace “And” with “or”
I said that I’ll wait a year if I actually GET some concessions (Like…uh…I dunno…BEING ABLE TO TALK TO HER ABOUT IT!!) OR…Emphasis on OR I walk.
Doubt what you want, Thomas.

I’m done trying to give you whatever metaphorical shove you need to call her. I think you’re both too immature and need to grow up before this goes any further. Maybe that’s why the dad is waiting?

Because that’s exactly what you’ve been doing…look at Chev, look at whatevergirl. They say things that sometimes coincide with your posts. All fine and dandy. I accept ideas that make sense. Even if its from you. (A pattern you refuse to recognize) But when you come up with some whacked out idea, I’m going to refute it. And I’m going to be FURTHER driven away when you act like a complete and total jerk.
Why would I want to listen to someone like that?
I think the person you need to be examining is yourself. LilyM has civility. Liber-however you spell it, does not. I’m not the only one who noticed these attacks either. Another CAF member mentioned it in a PM.

And again, look at everyone’s posts. At least three outright have told you that things may not be fine and dandy. You apparently then lose respect for our opinions and they are no longer welcome. Two of those people are adults, who yes, have actually seen the world. And one is your age.

Because you’re treating this like a normal case. And when I say “Ok that won’t work” because “security” is too tight…Then you freak.
As much as you WANT it to be, this isn’t a normal situation. I’d rather try to get the BEST-case scenario first. For my sake and hers. right now, that’s talking to her. But not through the phone or whatever, since that’s ineffective due to the “increased security”

Wish you the best

Thank you.

 

[LilyM]

You’ve been hanging on because of something she said a year and a half ago? I do think PLT might be right on this one - a year and a half is an awfully long time for a young girl to stay attracted to someone Daddy doesn’t even let her talk to.

And why is that? You’ve said he’d tell you to go away if she lost interest (assuming she ever really had it to begin with). Isn’t it just as reasonable that he’d tell you to come on over (chaperoned, like the holiday) if she WAS interested in you?

I just really noticed the post where you said you were invited on a holiday with the family, together with your mother. Why can’t you and Mum go over together to see them then? If you’re friendly enough to go on holidays together you’re friendly enough to visit them at their house, surely.

What’s the worst that could happen? You tell her that you like her, in a calm, reasonable, respectful way, in front of Mum (who knows already) and her Dad (who also knows already) and then what? He gets mad and what? Yells at you? Kicks you and Mum out?

You’ll have your answer in that case. If she lets him do that, without a word to you or a word to try and stop it, then she’s definitely either not interested, or not going to overcome her fear or inertia or whatever enough to make a relationship workable.

 

[Jwlynas]

Whats with all the tension here?

Belgarion, people (Pro-life_teen, LilyM, whatevergirl and others) are trying to help, and it seems at times that you’re choosing to ignore any advice that doesn’t go along with your viewpoint. Thats not looking for help, thats looking for reassurance.

Mostly I think people are a little confused as to what your scenario is, so lets try and sum it up.

1. You like a girl
2. You think she likes you
3. Her father disapproves of the relationship
4. He has disallowed contact at certain places, sometimes, with certain people, or maybe others possibly, except on weekdays with the letter T (This is the confusing part for me… Clearly)
5. You’ve written a letter. Thus far its undelivered, but its written.
6. Its taken you two years to decide to write this letter.

Add some others if there are any, nice simple sentences, no jokes to liven it up (You seem to adore jokes, and more power to you, but sarcasm doesn’t work online)

Lets try and get this sorted into something understandable, and then any help will be much more… Well… helpful.

Also, if you insult people, they are less likely to help you out so, just chill, be nice.

 

[whatevergirl]

Whats with all the tension here?

Belgarion, people (Pro-life_teen, LilyM, whatevergirl and others) are trying to help, and it seems at times that you’re choosing to ignore any advice that doesn’t go along with your viewpoint. Thats not looking for help, thats looking for reassurance.

Mostly I think people are a little confused as to what your scenario is, so lets try and sum it up.

1. You like a girl
2. You think she likes you
3. Her father disapproves of the relationship
4. He has disallowed contact at certain places, sometimes, with certain people, or maybe others possibly, except on weekdays with the letter T (This is the confusing part for me… Clearly)
5. You’ve written a letter. Thus far its undelivered, but its written.
6. Its taken you two years to decide to write this letter.

Add some others if there are any, nice simple sentences, no jokes to liven it up (You seem to adore jokes, and more power to you, but sarcasm doesn’t work online)

Lets try and get this sorted into something understandable, and then any help will be much more… Well… helpful.

Also, if you insult people, they are less likely to help you out so, just chill, be nice.

***Gosh, you’re so logical. ***

 

[Jwlynas]

***Gosh, you’re so logical. ***

I try my best.

And nothing annoys people like being frustratingly logical at them when they’re looking for conflict. Its an internet defense mechanism I can’t seem to turn off

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I just went through the punishment of rereading this whole thread. I see a kid putting forth a problem. He got about 28 very respectful attempts to be helpful before he started getting a little snippy at post 28. Again at post 73 he started getting annoyed when people started questioning the motives of the girl and her family and whether she was all that. He accuses people who have been very patient of “not listening” when the problem is, we WERE listening. He said he wanted perspective from the other side. And 73 posts showed that many reasonable people were trying to tell him there are very few good explanations for the behavior he is encountering in that family.

Politeness reigns for the most part as people are trying to tell him he needs to really look at this more closely. Posters ignore his sometimes disrespectful attempts at humor and him making light of what looks like a creepy situation all the while as he tells us we all don’t have all the information needed in order to agree with his preconceived notions of how this will play out.

A few people suggest he quit talking to us and DO something. More pages spent discussing why he is doing precisely nothing, or can do nothing, or will do nothing until he thinks about it a little more.

Finally the wheels start to come off at post 121. He snaps at Yours Truly and gets really disrespectful because I used one word: “Cartoonish.” Though he has repeatedly told us happily and proudly how abnormal she is, how not normal he is, how he doesn’t want to be normal, how outside the realm of normalness he is, or he would be the norm and all that.

After comparing this situation to a famous Foghorn Leghorn cartoon, I told him he seemed something out of a story… a pen and ink drawing of a guy pining for the maiden.

Snap.

Out comes the anger. Other posters agree with me. Now he’s mad and argumentative and telling people he doesn’t want their advice because the picture he has painted for 121 posts has made their advice something he doesn’t want to hear anymore.

I suggest he likes the situation and doesn’t want a solution. Or he doesn’t want any posts where people have their own ideas of what to do. He can’t play it both ways. He can’t tell us in one post he can’t get close enough to the girl to give her a letter and then in another post tell us he and his mother have been invited on holiday with the family because they’re all so close. And then when we are confused, he tells us we’re not paying attention.

This has been 15 pages of contradictions and re-explanations that don’t quite align with the original storyline.

And then he snaps at us as if we are feeble-minded when we lose track. With sentences like “Does your illiteracy know no bounds? Or are you just forgetting to replace “And” with “or””

And calling other poster’s readings on this “whacked out theories” and calling other people jerks.

He can’t play victim when it comes to the tone this thread has taken. He paints a picture of a family with all sorts of siblings who he claims to be friends with and yet he can’t get one of them to put her on the phone and talk to him? The girl must be the only 20 year old in America without access to email. Is the whole family so scared of the father, even the adult children, that no one will either help him say Boo to her or be honest and tell him to go away? We suggest there is something very wrong with this whole picture and we are accused of ascribing to conspiracy theories.

Train wreck indeed.

All I can gather is that no one should post to Belgarion unless you want to agree with him and encourage him in his preconceived course of actions. 15 pages into this and it is clear he really did not really want advice.

When he got advice he did not want to hear, he accused the posters of not listening. Or worse.

 

[Belgarion]

You’ve been hanging on because of something she said a year and a half ago? I do think PLT might be right on this one - a year and a half is an awfully long time for a young girl to stay attracted to someone Daddy doesn’t even let her talk to.

No…this is what I said.

Belgarion:

Well, I think it was a year and a half into it. And when I talked to her bro about it the first time, he already knew what was going on…And that was a month at most before I asked her dad’s permission…So that’s a long “passing fancy”…

That means, it was a year and a half from the time I started…since its been ALMOST two years, it was less than 6 months ago. And her brother knew she liked me before I liked her. So my point is…she has had feelings for me longer than I have had feelings for her…

And why is that? You’ve said he’d tell you to go away if she lost interest (assuming she ever really had it to begin with). Isn’t it just as reasonable that he’d tell you to come on over (chaperoned, like the holiday) if she WAS interested in you?

No, because they don’t function like that.
PLus, he actaully DID tell me to come over and watch movies etc over there…But for some reason, took that back.

I just really noticed the post where you said you were invited on a holiday with the family, together with your mother. Why can’t you and Mum go over together to see them then? If you’re friendly enough to go on holidays together you’re friendly enough to visit them at their house, surely.

Because somehow (I’m just as confused as you are about this) its OK to drive down to L.A. with them, stay in the same hotel (not the same room, of course) and also stay with their family down there (Same house, not same room again, of course) …but its not OK for me to come over to their house for dinner and all that…But hey, maybe they just didn’t want ME alone coming over like that. Who knows?
Because after her dad took that back, I stopped talking to her the first time. After a few weeks of it, I cracked, and started talking to her again. And, up til recently, she was actually treating me a lot better. She was saying things, (And even doing things) that made me think, and nearly say: “You’re saying/doing that in front of your family!!??”
Oh boy, were those flirtatious times

What’s the worst that could happen? You tell her that you like her, in a calm, reasonable, respectful way, in front of Mum (who knows already) and her Dad (who also knows already) and then what? He gets mad and what? Yells at you? Kicks you and Mum out?

No, he’ll just want to talk to me about it again, and assure us that he just wants “God’s best” and a relationship now isn’t “God’s best”.

You’ll have your answer in that case. If she lets him do that, without a word to you or a word to try and stop it, then she’s definitely either not interested, or not going to overcome her fear or inertia or whatever enough to make a relationship workable.

yeah, that’s right. But IMO there’s too much stacked against her at that point. She’ll likely not be thinking with a clear-head. I at least want to give her a chance to think about it and come to a well-decided conclusion.

 

[Belgarion]

Whats with all the tension here?

Ya know, I don’t know.

Belgarion, people (Pro-life_teen, LilyM, whatevergirl and others) are trying to help, and it seems at times that you’re choosing to ignore any advice that doesn’t go along with your viewpoint. Thats not looking for help, thats looking for reassurance.

If I were looking for reassurance, I’d go to my family. If I were looking for reassurance, I would just keep doing what I’ve been doing for two years. No, I’m looking for solutions. ON the other hand…I may be looking for reassurance that I’m doing the right thing by taking THEIR advice on talking/writing to her.

Mostly I think people are a little confused as to what your scenario is, so lets try and sum it up.

1. You like a girl A lot

1. You think she likes you I know she does

1. Her father disapproves of the relationship He doesn’t so much as disapprove of the relationship, just the timing.

1. He has disallowed contact at certain places, sometimes, with certain people, or maybe others possibly, except on weekdays with the letter T (This is the confusing part for me… Clearly)
   Wait…what?..
2. You’ve written a letter. Thus far its undelivered, but its written.
   Yeah, but of course I’m going over the letter to make sure I’m not conveying the wrong idea. That’d be dumb.
3. Its taken you two years to decide to write this letter.
   LOL!! I guess that’s a good way to put it!

Add some others if there are any, nice simple sentences, no jokes to liven it up (You seem to adore jokes, and more power to you, but sarcasm doesn’t work online)
Sarcasm is my native tongue, but I’ll try to supress myself.
Lets try and get this sorted into something understandable, and then any help will be much more… Well… helpful.
Cool
Also, if you insult people, they are less likely to help you out so, just chill, be nice.

Well, that’s what I was saying about THEM.

Anyways, it’d take a long time to get everything down…
But there are more details about how much I’ve gotten to know her (We would ask each other questions all the time…it was a little “Game”)
More details on how she’s actually done or said things that her father would DEFINITELY glare at me about!! (Spending time with me alone, saying very flirtatious things… )
(Does that count as joking?..sorry…its just nice to remember)

I’m having a tough time sleeping lately (My mom has even taken to giving me sleep-aids…ugh) so my mental capacity is reduced at this point…I’ll get some more stuff down, if I remember it, OK?
Oh…and one more thing…
…She likes classic cars…I’m dead serious about that. No joke. And although neither of us are into the specs of each car…we appreciate their awesomeness…And when I found that out…I nearly did a Tim Taylor grunt. Not kidding there (And I almost [jokingly] said “I love you” after she told me her favorite car…I had to stop myself )

 

[LilyM]

No…this is what I said.

That means, it was a year and a half from the time I started…since its been ALMOST two years, it was less than 6 months ago. And her brother knew she liked me before I liked her. So my point is…she has had feelings for me longer than I have had feelings for her…

6 months instead of 18 … not nearly as long, granted, but still reasonably long.

No, because they don’t function like that.
PLus, he actaully DID tell me to come over and watch movies etc over there…But for some reason, took that back.

OK. If he said you could come over (even thought he took it back later) then obviously he DOES function ‘like that’. The obvious explanation is that after the initial invite either she told him she didn’t want you around any more or he saw something in you that he seriously disliked.

Or maybe he found out something about her that you don’t know, something that means he won’t trust her around any guy. It’s not like anyone other than her parents would necessarily know, or that anyone would tell you, if she had a past of some kind, after all. Certainly good Victorian dads didn’t!

So there’s no mysterious ‘some reason’ about his behaviour, it’s perfectly understandable and explainable. You’d do the same for your daughter if either she told you she didn’t want to see some guy or you saw something about him that seriously made you think twice, or she was untrustworthy in some way.

Because somehow (I’m just as confused as you are about this) its OK to drive down to L.A. with them, stay in the same hotel (not the same room, of course) and also stay with their family down there (Same house, not same room again, of course) …but its not OK for me to come over to their house for dinner and all that…But hey, maybe they just didn’t want ME alone coming over like that. Who knows?

He said that you couldn’t come over even with your mother?

Because after her dad took that back, I stopped talking to her the first time. After a few weeks of it, I cracked, and started talking to her again. And, up til recently, she was actually treating me a lot better. She was saying things, (And even doing things) that made me think, and nearly say: “You’re saying/doing that in front of your family!!??”
Oh boy, were those flirtatious times

Saying and doing what? And during the middle of all these ‘flirtatious times’ when she was making it (fairly) clear in front of her family how she felt, you never managed to a) tell her you like her and b) ask her if she likes you? And she never managed to tell you? I’m still confused.

No, he’ll just want to talk to me about it again, and assure us that he just wants “God’s best” and a relationship now isn’t “God’s best”.

Ever ask him exactly WHY he thinks she’s not ready for a relationship now? If she lets him say that and makes no effort to stop him or contradict him then again, she’s either not interested or not interested enough to conquer her natural anxiety/inertia/whatever.

yeah, that’s right. But IMO there’s too much stacked against her at that point. She’ll likely not be thinking with a clear-head. I at least want to give her a chance to think about it and come to a well-decided conclusion.

She’s been thinking about it for TWO YEARS bud. If she doesn’t have a clear head or a decided conclusion about it now she never will. You’re coming dangerously close to deciding you won’t take no (decisively uttered in behaviour if not in words) for an answer here.