Is the silent treatment acceptable? (Womanly opinions welcome...I can't really read women's minds)

[Pro-Life_Teen]

Anyways, the other 19 people aren’t complaining about my idea for contacting her…And they even seem to be encouraging it…meanwhile you seem to be ignoring it…Wonder why?

Me, LilyM, chevalier, crondam and then there’s Liberanosamalo. And the rest are no doubt not complaining about talking to her because we want you to contact her in some manner at all.

however…in case you missed it…I have, and will continue to, given more and more information as its come up. Would you LIKE me to write a huge wall of text with information that you may or may not need to know? I can.

Actually, yes please. Since it seems to change ever so slightly every few posts so that any and all suggestions that many people of many ages suggest for one 19 year old to speak to one 20 year old are incorrect as they are subverted by the father.

I’m going to do something…I’m going to ask you to consider ALL of the ramifications of EVERY action that you can take.
Just like I have. Please, tell me which one YOU would do, if it was your BF in her position, or whatever.
of course I know you’re going to bring up the differences between the two, but I’m not asking for that. I’m asking for solving a situation where person A (You or me) has known person B (your BF or HER) for years and has fallen for him/her. Person B’s family is nice, and sometimes very cool, but has courting rules from hell. blah blah blah…what would person A do to try to make this work BEFORE he/she gives up.

If my boyfriend was living within driving distance, like heck I would sit online and chat about not getting to talk to him. I would do everything legally and morally possible- probably using at least half of the suggestions we’ve given you [though morally they might be sketchy sometimes. But subterfuge is fun in small doses]. And if anyone I knew was under such a lock and key by their family, I’d also do anything in my power to get them out of it.

Risks are a part of life. Be it talking to the girl you ain’t supposed to be talking to, about going to the movies, or dating someone you on average get to see once every year.

What is the worst that can happen? The dad tells his adult daughter who has a job and therefore money, to move out. That is the ultimate worst. Actually, other than that, can he even do anything? Can one ground a 20 year old? And considering all you want to do is talk like adults [sorta] about a chaste courtship, he doesn’t have much ground to justify any sort of punishment.

pssh…I don’t need her to notice me. She does it on her own.
And I AM AM AM AMAMAMAM allowed to talk to her, and I need NO ONE’S permission for that! But out of respect I wasn’t discussing our relationship. Her father had asked me not to, and for all I know he wouldn’t care if I did NOW! I haven’t asked him about that since things started out…hmm…that was stupid…

Dude. That’s like me sticking my fingers in my ears and going LA LA LA LALALALA. We can hear you. We can see what you’re doing. And we, unlike you, are far enough away to see so much wrong in this whole thing.

Asking permission to talk to the daughter about the courtship that… ok, other than you should have done that ages ago, it… I like traditions, but he seems to be taking a nice formality [man asking father about his daughter] and handing it over your head. Like the tall jock keeping the nerd’s notebook just a bit too high for him to reach?

This has turned into a train-wreck reading it.​

Ok. If you say so. But keep in mind that your opinion isn’t on my “most respected” list.

Agreed with Liberanosamalo. Again. Yes, this whole thing is bad enough to unite us. And I was thinking it’s more like watching someone beat their head against a wall and them insisting it’s a good thing…

That’s not what I mean.
I mean that after two years, I don’t know if she’d want me to break the rules with her so that we could talk. But hey, we’ve done things that her father didn’t like, and she didn’t complain at all.

… blink Really? After two years you don’t know her well enough to gauge if she wants to break the rules a little? I point to my “barely friends” mentioning a while back and allude to it now.

at least stop standing by while I’m being played.

You have to stop standing there and let yourself be played. All you seem to know is that you’re kinda friends and both “like” each other. That is 4th grade right there.

Thanks Just know that you’re in the minority on that one.

Somehow I think not. And when someone younger than you says you’re immature, there’s a bit of a problem.

*Ahh, what I call the “Frog in the pot of water syndrome”

You’re boiling and you think it’s fun. We’d stick our finger in and pull it out quick.*
Sure, that’s me! Belgarion the Masochist! /sarcasm

Frog in the boiling pot isn’t masochism. Masochism would be realizing that it’s hot and letting yourself get hurt. If one puts a frog in a cool pot of water and slowly turns the heat up, it shan’t notice the small increases of temperature until it’s dead. That is what you’re doing- you are accepting every little roadblock that comes along, for two years. Two years. And if she’s playing games, you’ll just drop her?

Amazing.​

I know I am.

Ok, that one so is a snarky immature response.

 

[Belgarion]

Me, LilyM, chevalier, crondam and then there’s Liberanosamalo. And the rest are no doubt not complaining about talking to her because we want you to contact her in some manner at all.

Are you kidding me?
Or are you ignoring this as well.

Let me SPELL IT OUT!!

I, Ryan, will give her a letter, and/or talk to her.

Are you going to complain about that?? Or are you just going to be another person ignoring that fact.

Actually, yes please. Since it seems to change ever so slightly every few posts so that any and all suggestions that many people of many ages suggest for one 19 year old to speak to one 20 year old are incorrect as they are subverted by the father.

Now you just not making sense.
But whatever. I’m sure I’l have an essay up soon.

If my boyfriend was living within driving distance, like heck I would sit online and chat about not getting to talk to him. I would do everything legally and morally possible- probably using at least half of the suggestions we’ve given you [though morally they might be sketchy sometimes. But subterfuge is fun in small doses]. And if anyone I knew was under such a lock and key by their family, I’d also do anything in my power to get them out of it.

Look who’s romanticizing rescue now…

Risks are a part of life. Be it talking to the girl you ain’t supposed to be talking to, about going to the movies, or dating someone you on average get to see once every year.

What is the worst that can happen? The dad tells his adult daughter who has a job and therefore money, to move out. That is the ultimate worst. Actually, other than that, can he even do anything? Can one ground a 20 year old? And considering all you want to do is talk like adults [sorta] about a chaste courtship, he doesn’t have much ground to justify any sort of punishment.

Well, sure there are risks.

And I’ll let you know exactly what would happen if you did what you suggested (though you didn’t pick any particular favorite like I wanted you to…)

First, you’d try to call using subterfuge. Most likely through a friend. The thing is, that brings in a lot of variables. Its a good plan, sure, and I don’t doubt that. But you’re going to have sisters around (they are a close family) and its going to be hard to keep that up unless you have them on your side, which is possible, too.
Next, you’d try open rebellion, or whatever. Let’s say that leads her getting kicked out…You separate the family, create a rift and all that. Now, if she wants that…Who am I to say “No!! Stay away from me!!”
But she doesn’t, and you have to ask if its worth the trouble to do that, or just wait a little longer. It may end up working well, but it might not. There are risks, and it involves TALKING (Like I want to do)

So yeah, there are a whole lot of things one could do. Can you pick a particular favorite so I can give you every logical ending? It’d be nice.

      Dude. That's like me sticking my fingers in my ears and going LA LA LA LALALALA. We can hear you. We can see what you're doing. And we, unlike you, are far enough away to see so much wrong in this whole thing.

Perhaps too far.
though if you can understand what’s going on, why can’t you get your facts straight? Its annoying to have to repeat stuff over and over again.

 

[Belgarion]

Asking permission to talk to the daughter about the courtship that… ok, other than you should have done that ages ago, it… I like traditions, but he seems to be taking a nice formality [man asking father about his daughter] and handing it over your head. Like the tall jock keeping the nerd’s notebook just a bit too high for him to reach?

LOL! funny image. And yeah, that’s pretty much how it is. Will I defend him for that? No.

Agreed with Liberanosamalo. Again. Yes, this whole thing is bad enough to unite us. And I was thinking it’s more like watching someone beat their head against a wall and them insisting it’s a good thing…

Its a good thing

Hmm…not really.
But then again, if I liked what he was doing, I wouldn’t be here, would I?

… blink Really? After two years you don’t know her well enough to gauge if she wants to break the rules a little? I point to my “barely friends” mentioning a while back and allude to it now.

Lol
You want me to start rattling off stuff that I know about her? Sure, that’s not all that “definitely more than friends” know, but at least it’ll get you off my back about your “idea” about how close we are.

But hey, I guess its totally my fault for saying “Hey, do you want to break the rules a little?” in the middle of a conversation with her and her sisters…Wow, I’m an idiot! /sarcasm

You have to stop standing there and let yourself be played. All you seem to know is that you’re kinda friends and both “like” each other. That is 4th grade right there.

…Wow, let’s bring up (again) the fact that I’m not going to LET myself be played anymore. BTW, I remember 4th grade. This isn’t the 4th grade. In the 4th grade, a girl I liked slammed me into a wall because I teased her…irrelevant…I know

Somehow I think not. And when someone younger than you says you’re immature, there’s a bit of a problem.

And when someone younger thinks they know everything, that’s also a sign of immaturity.
I’ll admit, I’m immature on some things. But overall…

Frog in the boiling pot isn’t masochism. Masochism would be realizing that it’s hot and letting yourself get hurt. If one puts a frog in a cool pot of water and slowly turns the heat up, it shan’t notice the small increases of temperature until it’s dead. That is what you’re doing- you are accepting every little roadblock that comes along, for two years. Two years. And if she’s playing games, you’ll just drop her?

Because the games weren’t being played the entire time. Sure, there are rules. But there was no sudden cut-off in hugging. That’s the kind of dishonesty that I dislike.

Ok, that one so is a snarky immature response.

So?
As if sarcasm isn’t a language you know fluently?

you want to know what I think about myself? I’m introspective…that’s all. Or at least that’s all that I’d care to brag about myself…oh, other than perhaps that I’m a good writer.

Now, what I can say about you, is that I flat-out don’t like you. You are narrow-minded, and think that you know everything about everything. Or at least, when pertaining to other’s love lives. You ignore what other people say because you want to reiterate your point. And all you can say is what a travesty this is.
I respect my family’s opinion, because they will see me upset, and will offer opinions on what to do. They’re helpful, and they don’t go around saying what a disaster this is.
That’s because they are close enough to understand, yet far enough away to remain objective.
I do not respect your opinion, because even though you may be right sometimes, you’re not helpful at all. Who’s helpful here? whatevergirl, Chev, and a few others. But that’s because they’re offerin wisdom on that matter, and not being total jerks about it.
Which is more than I can say about you

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

Now, what I can say about you, is that I flat-out don’t like you. You are narrow-minded, and think that you know everything about everything. Or at least, when pertaining to other’s love lives. You ignore what other people say because you want to reiterate your point. And all you can say is what a travesty this is.
I respect my family’s opinion, because they will see me upset, and will offer opinions on what to do. They’re helpful, and they don’t go around saying what a disaster this is.
That’s because they are close enough to understand, yet far enough away to remain objective.
I do not respect your opinion, because even though you may be right sometimes, you’re not helpful at all. Who’s helpful here? whatevergirl, Chev, and a few others. But that’s because they’re offerin wisdom on that matter, and not being total jerks about it.
Which is more than I can say about you

I was on your side at the beginning of this. Suppose I’m not anymore… Narrow-minded? I don’t believe so, but I could be incorrect. That I know everything? That one is about right. And snark aside- we don’t know everything- you don’t tell us enough. All we get to work with is her dad doesn’t let her do about anything, you can’t call her house because they know the number and will ban you from speaking to her, and you think it’ll all go away when you get married.

Ignoring and reiterating a point? You are doing exactly that.

Ah, but it’s late here, so I shall have to dash off. May lurk through the thread, but additional posts may be rarer.

 

[chevalier]

Oh don’t pull THAT!!
lol
If someone tells me that i spend all day swooning over her, I think I have the right to reject that!

Of course. But people told you other things and some of them actually had some merit.

The closest I’ve ever got to that is when she literally made me go weak at the knees…There were no couches around

Lol. Well, on Saturday, I actually started smiling like an idiot when I saw a girl that came to the lecture for Ph.D. law students… I must be getting soft of late. After a moment, because I didn’t know her, I prayed for some help in establishing some contact because I just couldn’t let her go. And you know what happened? She left right at that moment. Wonder what was wrong with my supplication…

Yeah, and her dad has said some things…that are pretty easy to get, and didn’t involve a lot of clues or deduction.

“Some things” by definition require some “getting” and some deduction.

Heck, I’m just doing what’s normal for me!

Sigh. Yeah. I was a worse nut than you when I was your age, I guess.

Dude, I don’t leave my house without permission at all!!

well…well FINE!

That’s what she will be telling you after you marry her.

Oh yeah, I get that.
But in regard to the major faults, I’m more talking about things like the inability to individuate. That’s something that I have NOT seen in the older siblings, and must therefore take that into consideration when it comes to her.

I see. Well, modern science and philosophy rubs off on us. Shouldn’t be so critical of people who aren’t big individualists. Giving up our ego is surely on the list of Christian things to do. On the other hand, it really doesn’t seem healthy to me in her situation.

Well, I’ll agree with some of those questions, but not all.
I don’t think they’re insane, and they have integrity…I can and will question his motivations, and even hers.

Well, he’s crossed the borders of what a reasonable and reliable person should be doing. The whole control thing is questionable and shifting his mind doesn’t strike the right chord with me. As for her, I do wonder. Avoidant disorder? Christian obedience taken to an extreme - and, given the fruits of it aren’t quite good - wrongly understood? Or is she just not that into guys and somehow prefers to trust her father on these matters - except she loses sight of the fact she’s already 20 and she isn’t getting any younger?

In my experience, parents move into their daughters’ romantic lives generally when those daughters need special protection. You shouldn’t pry into that, I guess, though if it concerns you, you might have some grounds to know. It’s a delicate matter. Further, I don’t think it’s the case anyway. I think the father’s nuts.

…How should I take that? Compliment?

Humbly and apologetically.

 

[LilyM]

Are you kidding me?
Or are you ignoring this as well.

Let me SPELL IT OUT!!

I, Ryan, will give her a letter, and/or talk to her.

Actually according to your previous posts you’re rethinking the letter already because it isn’t good enough or something (although your deathless prose apparently makes people cry, so I don’t know why you’d be worrying about it being good enough as is).

And apparently you haven’t talked to her recently, or actually managed to get to know anyone who sees her more than once in a blue moon and can ACTUALLY help you, since you started this thread.

Moreover you apparently don’t know when, if ever, you may be able to see her or talk to her, or get any actual help from anyone. And if she gets your letter how is she going to smuggle communications out past the guards and back to you, hmmm?

From where I stand you have no plans to contact her at all. A plan means date, time, place, someone to help, means of ensuring she gets the letter as opposed to the ever-lurking bogeyman father seeing it and snatching it out of her helpless lily-white hands unread…

without those all you have is a vague wish.

Are you going to complain about that?? Or are you just going to be another person ignoring that fact.

There are no facts in your posts at all other than you like her and think she may like you - or it may be that she may actually never want to see you again, since in two years you apparently have never bothered to in fact ASK her which it is. And of recent times you’ve been too busy maturely giving her the silent treatment to even bother trying.

Next, you’d try open rebellion, or whatever. Let’s say that leads her getting kicked out…You separate the family, create a rift and all that. Now, if she wants that…Who am I to say “No!! Stay away from me!!”
But she doesn’t, and you have to ask if its worth the trouble to do that, or just wait a little longer. It may end up working well, but it might not. There are risks, and it involves TALKING (Like I want to do)

If she doesn’t want you then there won’t BE any trouble or open rebellion no matter what you try, because she simply won’t do anything that would create a rift to begin with - she’ll stay put. Her father isn’t going to blame her for you trying for her if she emphatically rejects you - why would he?

You’ve had two years mate. If she honestly wanted to talk to you even the teeniest fraction as much as you say you want to talk to her, it would’ve happened already dude. For that matter if you honestly wanted to talk to her the teeniest fraction as much as you say you do it almost certainly would’ve happened already too.

My grandparents were close to being every bit as strict on Mum as this young lady’s parents are - somehow she managed to meet Dad (they were studying the same course at University, she had friends, he got to know them, and her) and within six weeks of first meeting they had not only well and truly established that they mutually liked each other, they were engaged already.

And my father apparently at some stage marched over to her house and threatened to punch out my granddad for yelling at her for coming home a little late! No rift either, by the way - if anything granddad respected him for caring for her enough to stick up for her.

This is the twenty-first century. Your lady love has her own money, of course she could and would buy her own mobile phone (and hide it if need be - I doubt her parents mistrust her that much that they’d search her room or her person) if she truly desires communication with you.

If not, she has a million other ways she could arrange it. That she hasn’t done so means she either doesn’t want you (most likely) or that she’s too scared to even try - in which case you should run a mile, she would be useless as a girlfriend or wife.

 

[chevalier]

As for the rest, yes, you’re stalling yourself and you hesitate quite a lot. The whole thing is weighing on you and it’s a stress relief when there’s a reason to put off an action by a day or two. I totally understand that. I suppose you don’t want to circumvent her father “like that” and you don’t want to induce her to oppose him. Authority traps can be quite mean. In short, no envy. On the other hand, you must realise that situation and take your lessons.

I would refuse to play the father’s game any more and I would give the daughter choice, but without begging it out of her - just leaving it up to her, since if the potential bad things are for her to take (and while boyfriends come and go, fathers stay), it should be up to her. Obviously, I might be wrong. But you shouldn’t allow her father to be such a force in your life. No more head games. If she will stick with him, too bad, her choice, move on.

 

[chevalier]

If not, she has a million other ways she could arrange it. That she hasn’t done so means she either doesn’t want you (most likely) or that she’s too scared to even try - in which case you should run a mile, she would be useless as a girlfriend or wife.

Lily, you’re ignoring the “use” factor. Maybe she’s so used to her ways, or should we say her dad’s ways, that she won’t see. And she will oppose any change. Some people just don’t see any other way.

 

[LilyM]

Lily, you’re ignoring the “use” factor. Maybe she’s so used to her ways, or should we say her dad’s ways, that she won’t see. And she will oppose any change. Some people just don’t see any other way.

That’s what I mean - if she’s used to these ways, whosever they are, and doesn’t see any other way, as you put it, then she’s almost certainly not going to change (short of her dad dying or something) and he is better off moving on.

 

[chevalier]

Ah, okay. My point was that actual scare wasn’t even needed. Inaertia was enough. Same reason I react with sheer primordial violence when someone suggests I change my ways.

 

[LilyM]

Ah, okay. My point was that actual scare wasn’t even needed. Inaertia was enough. Same reason I react with sheer primordial violence when someone suggests I change my ways.

yeah, my bad for saying ‘scared’ (curse your nitpicky legal mind, and curse my lack of one!)

 

[Jwlynas]

Hmm, an intriguing development here.

Contrary to the popular option, I say stick with it man, just change your tactics ever so slightly.

All the best romances happen without being spoken of, so the dad not letting you speak about it just means that you get to have a lot more fun in the meanwhile. Talk to her, be there for her, compliment her in an off-hand manner that doesn’t make you sound like a crooning fanboy (Not saying you do now, just saying avoid it) and above all else be a romantic. Don’t talk of marriage, talk of “A few months from now” or “this weekend”. There is nothing less romantic at the beginning of a relationship than speaking of the endgame. You wouldn’t like someone speaking of what they’re going to put on your couple-made tombstones.

I personally love a good “Star-crossed lovers meeting up in spite of parental disapproval tale” so keep at it. If you like each other it’ll all be shiny in the end. And being religious, I’m pretty sure God will speak to one of you, not to her father.

Good luck, keep us updated!

Oh, and I love LilyM’s idea of your lady getting a cell. Maybe you could chip in to help?

 

[Jwlynas]

Gah, wheres the edit box when you need it…

Ok, having actually read all the other posts heres a new view point.

The family do seem to have a little touch of… What’s the word… Insanity? And by family I mean father, but if he’s the overbearing, over controlling type I’ve no doubt the family have little other (name removed by moderator)ut.

I think people are a little optimistic in their “She’s 20, she can make her own mind up” views. If she’s been sheltered and controlled all her life, she probably doesn’t even think of escape. And our boy Belgarion, aside from his awesome choice of literary characters, doesn’t seem like the “knight in shining armour, save the princess type”. Correct me if I’m wrong here, but your more likely to sit and pray for her to save herself than actually get in there and save her, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Praying is good, God loves, faith will find a way, I have a dream, etc etc. Ultimately though, you, or someone else, is going to have to do something to help your girl (I wish I had a name, I hate using the words lass and girl…) save herself. Sooner rather than later.

Silent treatment from someone she loves/likes/knows faintly (It seems to vary from post to post as to what you are exactly) Is just going to push her deeper into this slightly distressing family relationship.

 

[whatevergirl]

***I don’t believe that a relationship should start off with a man rescuing a woman…whether it be out of a bad household, a bad other relationship, etc…that sets the tone for a very skewed relationship. This girl, if she is being controlled by her dad, in my estimation, will have some problems trusting men once she gets out of that house, if she ever does.

I don’t think we should run at the first sign of trouble once IN a relationship, but we shouldn’t be seeking out a dysfunctional relationship off the bat. Most likely, this girl, when she gets out on her own…if ever–will have a hard time in a relationship…identifying to someone other than her dad…looking for her dad in other men…or not looking for her dad…she will not have a well adjusted view of relationships, because her dad scared her so much into submission of what HE wanted for her.

I thought about this, Belgarion, in reading things over here…in the past few pages…and you really shouldn’t want to rescue a girl from anything…I don’t think that is a good way to begin a relationship…a healthy one, anyways. That aspect just dawned on me today. She’s not a prize to be won…many men when they are rescuing a woman from something…think that it’s noble, but that type of woman makes for a very trying relationship. ***

 

[Belgarion]

I was on your side at the beginning of this. Suppose I’m not anymore… Narrow-minded? I don’t believe so, but I could be incorrect. That I know everything? That one is about right. And snark aside- we don’t know everything- you don’t tell us enough. All we get to work with is her dad doesn’t let her do about anything, you can’t call her house because they know the number and will ban you from speaking to her, and you think it’ll all go away when you get married.

NArrow-minded, yeah.

So my entire thread, as detailed as it is, is not enough for you to properly understand the situation…but you can reduce it all to a paragraph?
I don’t think so. If you think that I’ve been as vague as your summary, then you REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension.

Ignoring and reiterating a point? You are doing exactly that.

Of course I have to reiterate! Because you obviously fail to read my posts in their entirety.
Though I suppose I’m ignoring everything, despite the fact that I answer pretty much every paragraph you write…

Ah, but it’s late here, so I shall have to dash off. May lurk through the thread, but additional posts may be rarer.

Thank God.

Of course. But people told you other things and some of them actually had some merit.

Well, take a look at some of my replies to PLT! I said that some things could work, but they’d involve such and such in addition…etc

Lol. Well, on Saturday, I actually started smiling like an idiot when I saw a girl that came to the lecture for Ph.D. law students… I must be getting soft of late. After a moment, because I didn’t know her, I prayed for some help in establishing some contact because I just couldn’t let her go. And you know what happened? She left right at that moment. Wonder what was wrong with my supplication…

…I have no idea…lol
Chev, you ARE getting soft! (Its about time )

“Some things” by definition require some “getting” and some deduction.

…
Well, when he tells me that she cares for me…Ok…yeah, it took some deduction…but it was easy, so that doesn’t count!!

Sigh. Yeah. I was a worse nut than you when I was your age, I guess.

I highly doubt that…LOL

That’s what she will be telling you after you marry her.

…is that a bad thing?

I see. Well, modern science and philosophy rubs off on us. Shouldn’t be so critical of people who aren’t big individualists. Giving up our ego is surely on the list of Christian things to do. On the other hand, it really doesn’t seem healthy to me in her situation.

Yeah, I know!! Its not a clear-cut situation!! There’s always “On the other hand…”

Well, he’s crossed the borders of what a reasonable and reliable person should be doing. The whole control thing is questionable and shifting his mind doesn’t strike the right chord with me. As for her, I do wonder. Avoidant disorder? Christian obedience taken to an extreme - and, given the fruits of it aren’t quite good - wrongly understood? Or is she just not that into guys and somehow prefers to trust her father on these matters - except she loses sight of the fact she’s already 20 and she isn’t getting any younger?

Yeah…its crazy!!!

I don’t know why she goes along with it (other than respect of course)
ITs not really a topic that comes up often…But its going to be NOW!!!

In my experience, parents move into their daughters’ romantic lives generally when those daughters need special protection. You shouldn’t pry into that, I guess, though if it concerns you, you might have some grounds to know. It’s a delicate matter. Further, I don’t think it’s the case anyway. I think the father’s nuts.

LOL…yeah…let’s go with that!

Half-joking aside…It concerns me, and its not just HER. Its all of them. I think its BECAUSE the others did what they did. When you have kids moving out to pursue a relationship, you try to prevent that from happening again

Humbly and apologetically.

Oh, so how I am normally?

 

[chevalier]

…I have no idea…lol
Chev, you ARE getting soft! (Its about time )

Darn. I’m getting old.

…
Well, when he tells me that she cares for me…Ok…yeah, it took some deduction…but it was easy, so that doesn’t count!!

And the subject was…

I highly doubt that…LOL

Thanks, but I still remember. I might have been more world-wise, but I was more of a dolt for sure.

…is that a bad thing?

Kinda.

Yeah, I know!! Its not a clear-cut situation!! There’s always “On the other hand…”

Yes, but that means we’ve got to consider it, not that we can escape into relativism.

I don’t know why she goes along with it (other than respect of course)

Conformism, inaertia, lack of knowledge of a different way, are some possible ideas.

Half-joking aside…It concerns me, and its not just HER. Its all of them. I think its BECAUSE the others did what they did. When you have kids moving out to pursue a relationship, you try to prevent that from happening again

I’m constantly being bugged by some little thing inside my mind wondering whether he’s really nuts about control or whether I’m mistaken about him for some reason.

Oh, so how I am normally?

To us or to her father?

 

[kage_ar]

What ARE her family rules?

Ours was clear, no one on one dating til age 17.

 

[Sheeniac]

This whole thing could be solved in about 20 minutes. Get someone else to call her on her business line. Heck - ask your mom if you need to.

You take the phone. Have something written out ahead of time so you don’t say the wrong thing. Keep it on the short side. If she doesn’t have a definite reply for you, ask her when she will.

Call today.

 

[Belgarion]

Actually according to your previous posts you’re rethinking the letter already because it isn’t good enough or something (although your deathless prose apparently makes people cry, so I don’t know why you’d be worrying about it being good enough as is).

No. No. No No!!
LOL
I was emotional when I wrote the first one, and I just need to write one with a clear head
Deathless prose? lol…though yeah, I showed it to some family and friends (All women) and all but one cried (My grandma is a tough woman, lol)

And apparently you haven’t talked to her recently, or actually managed to get to know anyone who sees her more than once in a blue moon and can ACTUALLY help you, since you started this thread.

Wow. Yet again…ignorance…Why do you say those things when you don’t even KNOW? Its not like I’ve said “Oh, I don’t KNOW anyone that is close to her” but then later got to know someone and didn’t tell you…
Good Lord. I know PLENTY of people that see her often. I just don’t think she has any friends that she’ll hang out alone with, if that is what you mean, Because friends of hers are friends of her sisters, too!
Also, of course I haven’t talked to her recently…because she hasn’t been around me recently. She didn’t go to choir, and they went to a Latin Mass yesterday, while my family and I chose to stay at our normal Mass. I believe an earlier post of mine expressed my want to see her, due to the chance of doing what I want to do…and a later one may have explained that she wasn’t there.

Moreover you apparently don’t know when, if ever, you may be able to see her or talk to her, or get any actual help from anyone. And if she gets your letter how is she going to smuggle communications out past the guards and back to you, hmmm?

More assumptions…This week was an odd week. Regular weeks, I will see her wednesday nights, and sunday mornings/afternoons.
However, YEAH, I’m not sure when I’ll be able to talk to her alone, or give her the letter, but that’s because I need an opportunity. I’m praying that God guides me, and helps me recognize the opportune moment.
BTW, I can get help from people, but it’d be her family, not friends.
Also, don’t assume that I haven’t put thought into this. Once she gets the letter, she can do what she wants. Its a heck of a lot easier to give something to someone when BOTH are in on it. Heck, she could just put a reply into my music case, or binder. Sure, its kinda school-y, but it works.

From where I stand you have no plans to contact her at all. A plan means date, time, place, someone to help, means of ensuring she gets the letter as opposed to the ever-lurking bogeyman father seeing it and snatching it out of her helpless lily-white hands unread…

LOL
Another funny image.

I guess if that’s your definition of plans, then nope. I have no plan.
I’m just winging it.
Yep, I write the letter, and give it to her when I get the chance.

without those all you have is a vague wish.

Or faith.

 

[Belgarion]

There are no facts in your posts at all other than you like her and think she may like you - or it may be that she may actually never want to see you again, since in two years you apparently have never bothered to in fact ASK her which it is. And of recent times you’ve been too busy maturely giving her the silent treatment to even bother trying.

No facts? Wow. I am SO going to compile all of them so I can prove you wrong (My favorite past-time)
Anyways…yet again…I know she likes me, stop ignoring that.
And its definitely not that she may “never want to see” me again. If that were true, I’d be ignored. I wouldn’t get smiles and glances during choir practice. I would get no blushes, no long periods of eye-contact (Seriously…THAT was awesome…She’s looks at me, smiling from across the choir-loft, I look back, and smile as well. I was thinking “Ok, she’s going to look away now”…She still smiled at me…“Any second now…”…nope…Finally I broke off eye contact, with my face turning beet-red)
Oh, and her dad would say “go away” if she suddenly lost interest.
She wouldn’t look extremely sad when I stop talking to her. And speaking of which, the silent treatment I’m giving her is a mature form. An immature form would be to snub her when she approaches me. But leaving after practice, or sitting with my family instead of sitting with her is a reaction to the immature tactics of her dad. But think what you will. Mature or not, I’m doing what I’m doing. Don’t like it? Tough.
To be fair to you, I did ask about that in my thread. But you’ve misinterpreted the reason and method.

If she doesn’t want you then there won’t BE any trouble or open rebellion no matter what you try, because she simply won’t do anything that would create a rift to begin with - she’ll stay put. Her father isn’t going to blame her for you trying for her if she emphatically rejects you - why would he?

Nope. But you’re essentially point out the obvious.
However, she wants me (LOL) and that’s the problem.

You’ve had two years mate. If she honestly wanted to talk to you even the teeniest fraction as much as you say you want to talk to her, it would’ve happened already dude. For that matter if you honestly wanted to talk to her the teeniest fraction as much as you say you do it almost certainly would’ve happened already too.

heh, perhaps maybe we’re just extremely respectful.

My grandparents were close to being every bit as strict on Mum as this young lady’s parents are - somehow she managed to meet Dad (they were studying the same course at University, she had friends, he got to know them, and her) and within six weeks of first meeting they had not only well and truly established that they mutually liked each other, they were engaged already.

Sorry, I’m not taking that path.
That just proves a little bias on your part if you’re OK with your parents getting engaged after 6 weeks.

And my father apparently at some stage marched over to her house and threatened to punch out my granddad for yelling at her for coming home a little late! No rift either, by the way - if anything granddad respected him for caring for her enough to stick up for her.

Sounds like something I would do. Your dad is a good man. Unfortunately, I haven’t heard her dad so much as raise his voice.

This is the twenty-first century. Your lady love has her own money, of course she could and would buy her own mobile phone (and hide it if need be - I doubt her parents mistrust her that much that they’d search her room or her person) if she truly desires communication with you.

Sure, she could do such a thing. Though its kinda hard to hide phone bills, and all that…

If not, she has a million other ways she could arrange it. That she hasn’t done so means she either doesn’t want you (most likely) or that she’s too scared to even try - in which case you should run a mile, she would be useless as a girlfriend or wife.

You forgot too respectful to try…But you can go ahead and think that that is a bad thing.

As for the rest, yes, you’re stalling yourself and you hesitate quite a lot. The whole thing is weighing on you and it’s a stress relief when there’s a reason to put off an action by a day or two. I totally understand that. I suppose you don’t want to circumvent her father “like that” and you don’t want to induce her to oppose him. Authority traps can be quite mean. In short, no envy. On the other hand, you must realise that situation and take your lessons.

Well, I am not really stalling…lol
I mean, I haven’t seen her because she hasn’t been to her normal stuff lately. Sure, its weighing on me and I’m scared of what might happen. But the delays aren’t desired events for me. And yeah, authority traps are stupid…I don’t want to mess with things like that, but I also don’t want to be played. oh well, I will have to deal.

I would refuse to play the father’s game any more and I would give the daughter choice, but without begging it out of her - just leaving it up to her, since if the potential bad things are for her to take (and while boyfriends come and go, fathers stay), it should be up to her. Obviously, I might be wrong. But you shouldn’t allow her father to be such a force in your life. No more head games. If she will stick with him, too bad, her choice, move on.

I agree! (Why don’t the others see me agreeing with these type of things?)

I won’t beg, but I’ll ask that she read it herself first. Its important to me that I talk to HER…I don’t want to talk to her dad, or have him reading over her shoulder…