Is the silent treatment acceptable? (Womanly opinions welcome...I can't really read women's minds)

[Belgarion]

Chev: I’ll get to you in a bit, I don’t have a whole lot of time ATM. But I love your responses
Please, I feel cheerful and optimistic. Maybe I’m doing something right! I’m not trying to distract.

No - sorry. It was a kick in the butt to make sure I had your attention! But, to be fair, it’s quite a possibility that you may be all wrong in reading this situation. Is that insulting? I don’t think so - I have many a story where I was the complete fool and chose to ignore the obvious. Yes, I have been dense before and will be so in the future.

Nah, its pretty officially unofficial…if that makes sense…its VERY hard to read into that sort of thing when its pretty obvious that we’re somewhat involved.
Trust me, I’m not dense, and its something that plenty of people know and understand.

I think you really need to communicate with her ASAP!

I agree!!!

BTW - you mentioned dropping someone an email - did you hear back? Was it one of the husbands?

No, but I can if I want…Maybe I should…
But its actually one of the wives that married in. It’ll be just as effective IMO
She’s a good friend of mine.

 

[Belgarion]

I would rather break the alternative and prevent it from imposing that “either or” on me.

true, but its not like I’m feeling one because I don’t want to feel the other. Maybe I gave that impression…oops…Its weird, because I feel good about this. Perhaps because either way will end well for me.

Be true to your feelings, but be careful about being true to yourself. Sometimes negotiations in business halt because one of the negotiators is emotionally attached to his proposed solution and the pride of authorship doesn’t allow him to admit other opportunities. Don’t let that kind of feelings push you into sticking to things that you had better change.

That makes sense. It may be difficult to avoid such a pitfall, or maybe just recognizing it.
However, that’s what my family is for!

No, it’s not that. It’s more that some of the opinions seem to make you rather defensive, while there’s a grain of truth in them and perhaps considering those opinions instead of repelling them could help you see some things from a different perspective.

The thing is, the opinions I “reject” are opinions that I find false. Notice how when you offer up a valid point (Even if its something that I might not do) I respect it. But when someone says something like “She’s just not into you”…I’m going to reject it because I know for a fact that its false.

You asked for opinions, not for validation of your decisions.

…I knew you would catch me on that
naw, my decision came from a consideration brought on by other’s opinions (As well as my own disposition) So essentially the validation of the decision is PART of asking for opinions, since its basically validating the opinions as well.
…or somesuch nonsense…

I said lying to get out of a date or get rid of unwanted advances was a very poor choice of action, not denoting a great level of reasonability.

Ah, so it WAS a compliment…LOL

I don’t know what could be known to justify that kind of situation. In my view, that situation is objectively messed up and cannot be justified by any argument that could possibly emerge out of thin air.

Yeah, but even the courts must allow the criminals to speak…

Yes, it’s strange she didn’t think of her dad. And strange is a very mild word for that. On the other hand, I do wonder what made them think of your family. Was that her own impression or…?

Well, apparently the fact that I don’t get out and do much seems to make them think that my dad is some tyrant. …soooo we think each other’s dads are tyrants…lol
Maybe there is something wrong with me, too…

The cops should grab a social worker and visit that place anyway.

Well as long as they just smack them upside the heads…

 

[Belgarion]

And, unfortunately to you, perhaps, Belgarion, I can’t but agree that it does look like you’re making excuses and diverting the topic, reacting with jokes (which is distraction) and sometimes with counter-“insults”. That seems like you’re in denial concerning her and her family. I don’t think if you really ask yourself, you really believe the all of the excuses are true or that the facts that you know and some other people don’t - or the facts that you don’t know either - could really change the view of the situation that much. It looks like the idea that anything serious might be wrong with the girl (you seem to have no problem with lesser faults) seems to be bouncing off of you. Same even with her father.

Yeah, its hard to be objective when you’re involved.
But as I’ve said, my jokes are just because I feel like making them. I’m not distracting. And counter-insults…Chev…you know that’d I’d make those regardlesss!
LOL
Anyways, yeah its quite true that perhaps the TRUTH will dramatically shift my view of them. But I’ve been dealing with this situation for 2 years, and its not all black and white for me. Some of the major faults aren’t a SURE thing. (At least by my standards.)

Perhaps I have too much faith in them, but perhaps I don’t That’s why I want to find out.
WHAT EXCUSES?!?!

Various reasons probably make everyone paint the father mentally in a worse light than he is, generally because people are focusing on what his actions do to you and they’re looking from a perspective sympathetic to you. Same way, people indeed don’t know the girl and when they are concentrating on the worrying aspects of her behaviour, they can’t offer any positive value judgements to lessen the load, such as, “oh, but she’s such a caring person,” or, “but she’s a sweet girl overall.” People just know her from your tale and from what her family has been doing about you. However, in this little subject, there’s quite a lot of information already and certainly enough to say that they aren’t your ideal in-laws, which is a very restrained way to put it. As for the girl, if she’s being made a 13 year old by her father and the rest of the family, and she gets along with that, that puts her on the 13 year old level, which is about time for a crush on a teacher, but not the time for a serious relationship.

Well that’s something that SHE has to decide. Just like me being 19, I sometimes have to consciously make the decision to be a 19 year old guy, instead of just wanting to take the path of immaturity.

And yeah, there’s an incomplete picture. I suppose I could write an essay on each of the
“characters” in this ordeal…that way the entire picture could be painted
BTW, she is VERY sweet. lol

Sigh. Reminds me of some aspects of one of my past relationships. The parents wouldn’t have minded if she had had sex with me, but minded if she was up till midnight talking to me. They weren’t really controlling other than this kind of thing and one bigger thing I don’t want to talk about in public, but it created a lot of tension.

…let’s skip this part, shall we?..

These days, I just avoid getting close with girls who are in close relationships with relatives that I would have a hard time getting along with. And I’m not above silence when I can’t tell a girl, “Sorry, I can’t take all the things you believe that your family instilled in you and I couldn’t get along with some of your family members,” and at the same time, I don’t want her to become more and more attracted and attached to me by exposure as friends. Wish I had a better solution, but nada. It largely restricts my pool, but I know myself well enough to know that I can cope with loneliness better than with exposure to certain ideas or behaviours.

I don’t necessarily have a problem with ANY of her family outside of this situation!! If we went through the “right channels” (AKA, played it their way) they would be wonderful people to be around that much. They’re nice people, and everyone likes them. But when it comes to their dating rules, everyone rolls their eyes.
I don’t necessarily think I’m getting influenced by their ideas, especially since when my sister says “I understand where they’re coming from” I say “WHAT?!?!?”

 

[Jay53]

So is the letter already written and you just need a chance to give it to her? C’mon, we’re on pins and needles here waiting to see what happens!!! Throw us a bone here!

 

[Belgarion]

So is the letter already written and you just need a chance to give it to her? C’mon, we’re on pins and needles here waiting to see what happens!!! Throw us a bone here!

Well, I had written a letter while I was REALLY emotional, so I might not want to send that one…

So I’m going to write another one and carry it around with me…so whenever we get that second or two…I can just make my move, and do what needs to be done.

Pins and needles, really?

 

[Jay53]

Well, I had written a letter while I was REALLY emotional, so I might not want to send that one…

Probably not!

So I’m going to write another one and carry it around with me…so whenever we get that second or two…I can just make my move, and do what needs to be done.

Good idea!

Pins and needles, really?

Really!!

 

[Belgarion]

Probably not!

Though for being an emotional rant…it was very well-written…

Good idea!

Whew…I’m leaving that in God’s hands, actually. If I get an opportunity, then it might mean I’m meant to do it

Really!!

Wow…I need to write a book…

 

[chevalier]

That makes sense. It may be difficult to avoid such a pitfall, or maybe just recognizing it.
However, that’s what my family is for!

The point is, don’t stick to the idea itself of pursuing that girl. Don’t allow your time investment and your satisfaction with the fact you’ve found such a nice girl, or the shame of withdrawing in the middle of the war, to hold you back from re-examining your position.

The thing is, the opinions I “reject” are opinions that I find false.

Yes, but do you reject them because you find them false or do you find them false because you reject them?

But when someone says something like “She’s just not into you”…I’m going to reject it because I know for a fact that its false.

Be careful with that kind of assumptions. You know that she has told someone she likes you and you’ve observed a couple of clues. But that’s the end of your knowledge. The rest is conjecture working as mortar for the bricks.

Cognitive bias is something which makes us more easily perceive or accept the positive things. Same way we hate losing. That’s why people are sometimes so immune to arguments which strike the bad chord with them. Don’t allow that kind of wiring to prevent you from accurately assessing your position.

…I knew you would catch me on that
naw, my decision came from a consideration brought on by other’s opinions (As well as my own disposition) So essentially the validation of the decision is PART of asking for opinions, since its basically validating the opinions as well.
…or somesuch nonsense…

Emphasis on nonsense.

Yeah, but even the courts must allow the criminals to speak…

And also they must not take their silence against them and must interpret all doubt in their favour, as well as reject propositions that are probable but not certain.

However, the courts also know the notion of precaution without prejudicing the outcome of the trial - arrest, bail, you name it, even though in those cases they still need to hear the accused out.

I’m not telling you to judge them, but I’m telling you not to ignore the facts. Judging them is one thing, saving your hide is another.

Well, apparently the fact that I don’t get out and do much seems to make them think that my dad is some tyrant. …soooo we think each other’s dads are tyrants…lol
Maybe there is something wrong with me, too…

Lol… And that’s something which was thought by a person from a family in which you don’t leave the house much without permission…

On the other hand, it’s possible they’ve grown to accept some things and you’ve grown to accept others, so neither of you accepts anything. But I think if you really had a tyrannical father, you’d notice.

 

[chevalier]

Yeah, its hard to be objective when you’re involved.
But as I’ve said, my jokes are just because I feel like making them. I’m not distracting. And counter-insults…Chev…you know that’d I’d make those regardlesss!
LOL

If you want to convince me, you need to make better effort. And I’ll spot that effort anyway.

Anyways, yeah its quite true that perhaps the TRUTH will dramatically shift my view of them. But I’ve been dealing with this situation for 2 years, and its not all black and white for me. Some of the major faults aren’t a SURE thing. (At least by my standards.)

Generally, the more you know and the longer you’re involved, the less black and white it becomes to you. But I do wonder which major faults aren’t a sure thing. I’m pretty sure between the two of them, her and her father, the situation is properly screwed up.

Perhaps I have too much faith in them, but perhaps I don’t That’s why I want to find out.
WHAT EXCUSES?!?!

Caps don’t work on me. You make attempts to indemnify the girl and her father whenever someone questions their integrity, sanity or motivations.

And yeah, there’s an incomplete picture. I suppose I could write an essay on each of the
“characters” in this ordeal…that way the entire picture could be painted
BTW, she is VERY sweet. lol

You dastard.

…let’s skip this part, shall we?..

We even should. Just to prevent misinterpretation, however, neither the girl nor I wanted to do that or did it. I see you may have developed some wrong ideas.

I don’t necessarily have a problem with ANY of her family outside of this situation!! If we went through the “right channels” (AKA, played it their way) they would be wonderful people to be around that much. They’re nice people, and everyone likes them. But when it comes to their dating rules, everyone rolls their eyes.
I don’t necessarily think I’m getting influenced by their ideas, especially since when my sister says “I understand where they’re coming from” I say “WHAT?!?!?”

I too understand where they’re coming from, but they’re nuts.

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

Excuses would be stupid. If only you could hear the conversation I just had with my mother. She seems to think that giving her a letter is a bad idea, but only because its not as practical as just talking to her. If I wanted to make excuses, I would just say my mommy told me not to send her a letter.
Anyways, you think I can’t win. Ok, that’s fine.
But I believe I can. And if it turns out I can’t. oh well.

I agree with your mum - talking > letter

Yeah, that time-line is about right. But its never too early to start saving up, regardless of who you’re marrying. After all, a career is an important part of one’s life. And if I’m going to be a father and husband someday, I have to be responsible for that family that I’ll have.
My want to finish school to do all that isn’t new. And neither is the saving of money. I’ve been doing that since I was 13. And I’ve wanted to be married for a much longer time.

The phrasing was odd. While I have nothing against mature relationships, I very much prefer them to shallow ones, looking at a girl and some of the first thoughts skipping straight to marriage and kids is too much. Not to mention being unable to talk to her while making all these plans. Too much fantasy is being tossed around.

True, but then that would still take some serious charm
I’m not so short on that, so maybe that would work. But IMO, the straight-forward method is best.

Straight-forward method… Not gonna touch that.

Yeah, I’m TOTALLY creepy!
BTW, its MY sister that married at 20. She has two kids now at 23.

Yes, I think it falls on the creepy side a touch. The tone, the phrasing… the attitude. I have nothing against young marriages or couples [hence the want to get someone to do something productive in this tale] but somehow I presume your sister knew her husband for a bit before they married.

and a 2nd BTW, “barely more than friends” Seriously"? Ok, if you say so.
And my comment about knowing that she’ll be a good wife and mom…uh…I know MANY women that I would, and will, say that about.
As “barely more than a friend”, I think I am in the position to say that.

That’s the impression you are giving. Like this a crush you sit near in class and hope she notices. That is exactly the tone I’m seeing. Apparently you aren’t allowed to talk to her, see her, walk near her, unless there’s a magic go ahead. So yes, I may not even classify this as friendship. It’s some sort of weird imprisonment all the way around- she in her home and you locked out of even getting to see her when she is allowed out.

Whatever, think what you want.
But I’m rather good at recognizing tone, and thing that go too far.
Liberanosamalo went too far with what she was saying, assumed too much, and made comments that weren’t helpful to the situation on either side.
I stand by my comments

This whole thread has a tone and an edge that is too far. And I don’t think she went too far, I think you aren’t explaining enough, giving us enough to work with, and then blaming us for things we never knew in the first place. Like everyone else has said, basically.

Frankly I think you’re immature and she’s either scared out of her mind trapped, or just immature as well. Her dad’s playing puppeteer with his children’s love lives, and you are going along with it. Because what? He’s going to tell you not to talk to her? … wait, he’s already done that.

 

[Belgarion]

The point is, don’t stick to the idea itself of pursuing that girl. Don’t allow your time investment and your satisfaction with the fact you’ve found such a nice girl, or the shame of withdrawing in the middle of the war, to hold you back from re-examining your position.

Agreed.

Yes, but do you reject them because you find them false or do you find them false because you reject them?

Oh don’t pull THAT!!
lol
If someone tells me that i spend all day swooning over her, I think I have the right to reject that! The closest I’ve ever got to that is when she literally made me go weak at the knees…There were no couches around

Be careful with that kind of assumptions. You know that she has told someone she likes you and you’ve observed a couple of clues. But that’s the end of your knowledge. The rest is conjecture working as mortar for the bricks.

Yeah, and her dad has said some things…that are pretty easy to get, and didn’t involve a lot of clues or deduction.

Cognitive bias is something which makes us more easily perceive or accept the positive things. Same way we hate losing. That’s why people are sometimes so immune to arguments which strike the bad chord with them. Don’t allow that kind of wiring to prevent you from accurately assessing your position.

Heck, I’m just doing what’s normal for me! But like I said, my family is here to help me make sure I don’t do stupid things. I’ve suggested some stupid things before, so I know I can count on them. My sister also helps me figure things out, since I often bounce ideas off of her, and make sure I am not getting the wrong idea about a particular event.

Emphasis on nonsense.

And also they must not take their silence against them and must interpret all doubt in their favour, as well as reject propositions that are probable but not certain.

However, the courts also know the notion of precaution without prejudicing the outcome of the trial - arrest, bail, you name it, even though in those cases they still need to hear the accused out.

I’m not telling you to judge them, but I’m telling you not to ignore the facts. Judging them is one thing, saving your hide is another.

…I like my hide…
lol
Yeah, well I may not be judging them…but I’d like to at least give them the benefit of the doubt where I think they deserve it. For now, at least.

Lol… And that’s something which was thought by a person from a family in which you don’t leave the house much without permission…

Dude, I don’t leave my house without permission at all!!

On the other hand, it’s possible they’ve grown to accept some things and you’ve grown to accept others, so neither of you accepts anything. But I think if you really had a tyrannical father, you’d notice.

…yeah, it depends on the situation…lol

If you want to convince me, you need to make better effort. And I’ll spot that effort anyway.

well…well FINE!
lol

Generally, the more you know and the longer you’re involved, the less black and white it becomes to you. But I do wonder which major faults aren’t a sure thing. I’m pretty sure between the two of them, her and her father, the situation is properly screwed up.

Oh yeah, I get that.
But in regard to the major faults, I’m more talking about things like the inability to individuate. That’s something that I have NOT seen in the older siblings, and must therefore take that into consideration when it comes to her.

Caps don’t work on me. You make attempts to indemnify the girl and her father whenever someone questions their integrity, sanity or motivations.

Well, I’ll agree with some of those questions, but not all.
I don’t think they’re insane, and they have integrity…I can and will question his motivations, and even hers.

You dastard.

…How should I take that? Compliment?

We even should. Just to prevent misinterpretation, however, neither the girl nor I wanted to do that or did it. I see you may have developed some wrong ideas.

No, not wrong ideas…I just-…Ok, maybe some wrong ideas, but I know you wouldn’t do that.

I too understand where they’re coming from, but they’re nuts.

LOL
Yeah, that’s the general concensus.

 

[LilyM]

So you’ve written a letter that you’re having second thoughts about giving her, you can send an email to someone (who? about what precisely? to what purpose?) but you haven’t decided to do it…

at this rate I’m surprised you ever managed to circumvent your own self-stalling tactics well enough to even talk to her in the first place.

For heaven’s sake, surely her father isn’t at home 24-7! Even if he is, get one of her friends, who her father WILL let talk to her, to phone her, and then you talk to her too while she’s on the phone.

Problem solved - but I bet it would be just too easy and you’re going to tell me she lets her father listen into her private phone conversations too, or something equally daft. Man she sounds like a real prize …

 

[Belgarion]

I agree with your mum - talking > letter

lol
Yeah, maybe.
I’m just SOOOOOO much better at writing than I am at talking. For whatever reason.

The phrasing was odd. While I have nothing against mature relationships, I very much prefer them to shallow ones, looking at a girl and some of the first thoughts skipping straight to marriage and kids is too much. Not to mention being unable to talk to her while making all these plans. Too much fantasy is being tossed around.

Believe me, I didn’t WANT those thoughts (And they didn’t come immediately)

I had liked a girl…and in one january, she ignored me (knowing that I liked her) and got a boyfriend…so I was hurt…swore off of women. lol
Months later, I got REALLY random dreams about this woman (who I barely knew at the time) and I just ignored it all. It wasn’t until 6 months later where I admitted that I liked her…and that was it. The seriousness of my feelings for her (As I got to know her) didn’t come til later…More dreams, accompanied by more SCARY confirmation. Ugh…it was VERY scary for me.
But the actual WANT to marry this woman didn’t come til over a year later. Its nothing that came fast, and its nothing that was entirelly certain.
Even now, I’ll say my prayers at night, asking God to bless my future bride, whoever she may be. Sure, I ask him to bless this young woman as well, but to me they CAN be two separate people.

Straight-forward method… Not gonna touch that.

better not

Yes, I think it falls on the creepy side a touch. The tone, the phrasing… the attitude. I have nothing against young marriages or couples [hence the want to get someone to do something productive in this tale] but somehow I presume your sister knew her husband for a bit before they married.

Yeah, she did. I don’t know this young woman that much, but its not like I want to RUSH things!!
Heck, her dad is suggesting a 6 month courtship, while I was looking at 2 years or more!

BTW, I’m so not creepy…I know some friends who thought that at first, but realized that it was my vampire-like teeth that threw them off.

That’s the impression you are giving. Like this a crush you sit near in class and hope she notices. That is exactly the tone I’m seeing. Apparently you aren’t allowed to talk to her, see her, walk near her, unless there’s a magic go ahead. So yes, I may not even classify this as friendship. It’s some sort of weird imprisonment all the way around- she in her home and you locked out of even getting to see her when she is allowed out.

pssh…I don’t need her to notice me. She does it on her own.
And I AM AM AM AMAMAMAM allowed to talk to her, and I need NO ONE’S permission for that! But out of respect I wasn’t discussing our relationship. Her father had asked me not to, and for all I know he wouldn’t care if I did NOW! I haven’t asked him about that since things started out…hmm…that was stupid…

This whole thread has a tone and an edge that is too far. And I don’t think she went too far, I think you aren’t explaining enough, giving us enough to work with, and then blaming us for things we never knew in the first place. Like everyone else has said, basically.

Yeah…the blaming is generally when someone says that I’m swooning or whatever.
Its the stupid comments like that that upset me.

however…in case you missed it…I have, and will continue to, given more and more information as its come up. Would you LIKE me to write a huge wall of text with information that you may or may not need to know? I can.
But its a little more economical to write it out as it comes up.

But you know what, she DOES have her side. I wish you could get it from her. I sincerely do.

Frankly I think you’re immature

Thanks Just know that you’re in the minority on that one.

and she’s either scared out of her mind trapped, or just immature as well. Her dad’s playing puppeteer with his children’s love lives, and you are going along with it. Because what? He’s going to tell you not to talk to her? … wait, he’s already done that.

HA! its worse than that I’m afraid.
Because he may just skip telling me entirelly and just cut off all social contact between us. Oh its happened before to one of the older ones. But that was a good thing, because it inspired the son to move out and leave his family out of it.

I’m going to do something…I’m going to ask you to consider ALL of the ramifications of EVERY action that you can take.
Just like I have. Please, tell me which one YOU would do, if it was your BF in her position, or whatever.
of course I know you’re going to bring up the differences between the two, but I’m not asking for that. I’m asking for solving a situation where person A (You or me) has known person B (your BF or HER) for years and has fallen for him/her. Person B’s family is nice, and sometimes very cool, but has courting rules from hell. blah blah blah…what would person A do to try to make this work BEFORE he/she gives up.

(My current idea can be used as well, this is part of the “bouncing ideas off” process)

 

[Belgarion]

So you’ve written a letter that you’re having second thoughts about giving her, you can send an email to someone (who? about what precisely? to what purpose?) but you haven’t decided to do it…

SIL of hers. Has been through a lot…Knows much.

And yes, letter…second thoughts…tired of games…

at this rate I’m surprised you ever managed to circumvent your own self-stalling tactics well enough to even talk to her in the first place.

Wow, you’re a nice one.

For heaven’s sake, surely her father isn’t at home 24-7! Even if he is, get one of her friends, who her father WILL let talk to her, to phone her, and then you talk to her too while she’s on the phone.

Problem solved - but I bet it would be just too easy and you’re going to tell me she lets her father listen into her private phone conversations too, or something equally daft. Man she sounds like a real prize …

Actually that plan is flawed. Sure, he’s not home 24/7, but I don’t even know anyone that she actually talks on the phone with! That would take some digging first…though THAT sounds creepy…lol

BTW, I appreciate your sardonics, but I doubt that he listens in.
But i DON’T doubt that she just doesn’t talk on the phone with anyone. (I don’t really either these days) They usually just have people over.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

But I’ve been dealing with this situation for 2 years, and its not all black and white for me.

Ahh, what I call the “Frog in the pot of water syndrome”

You’re boiling and you think it’s fun. We’d stick our finger in and pull it out quick.

You can’t call her business and pretend to be a customer so she’d talk to you?

You can’t talk to that in-law of hers who married into that family and get them to be a go-between, or maybe the brother that escaped. Hey, someone in that family thinks independently.

This has turned into a train-wreck reading it.

First you say the man won’t let you talk to her. Then you say he will, but he tells you what you can talk about.

Amazing.

When about 20 people are all telling you the same thing, you might want to listen.

 

[crondam]

For goodness sake, just decide to either cut bait or fish already!

 

[Belgarion]

Ahh, what I call the “Frog in the pot of water syndrome”

You’re boiling and you think it’s fun. We’d stick our finger in and pull it out quick.

Sure, that’s me! Belgarion the Masochist! /sarcasm

You can’t call her business and pretend to be a customer so she’d talk to you?

This proves just how well you’ve been listening…
She works at home, they recognize my number. Both my cell, and my home number.
I’m VERY VERY VERY good at changing my voice, but even then, I couldn’t get any deeper into things as a customer. But if you mean just to sneak past “security”, its still just as risky as talking to her in the way I want. But hey, if we are both on the same page, I’ll HAPPILY call in such a way to get to talk to her a little more!

You can’t talk to that in-law of hers who married into that family and get them to be a go-between, or maybe the brother that escaped. Hey, someone in that family thinks independently.

Yeah, actually. I’d be able to do that. Those two are so nice. They actually went on a trip with her, and were going to ask her about me…but didn’t!! OH NO!! I was all like “WHY DIDN’T YOU SAY SOMETHING???”
It was funny.

This has turned into a train-wreck reading it.

Ok. If you say so. But keep in mind that your opinion isn’t on my “most respected” list.

First you say the man won’t let you talk to her. Then you say he will, but he tells you what you can talk about.

No. I said he won’t let me talk to her about all that romantic/courting stuff. He doesn’t tell me to talk, for example, only about the weather.

Amazing.

I know I am.

When about 20 people are all telling you the same thing, you might want to listen.

You know, I’m seeing one person telling me something over and over again…but not listening to what I’m going to do. Its almost as if me giving up is important to you…
Ah, I’m sure I’m just reading wrong.

Anyways, the other 19 people aren’t complaining about my idea for contacting her…And they even seem to be encouraging it…meanwhile you seem to be ignoring it…Wonder why?

 

[Belgarion]

For goodness sake, just decide to either cut bait or fish already!

LOL!

Ah, but I need to find out what the river thinks about it…
…Ok…that sounded kinda hippy-ish…I mean, I need to talk to her first.

 

[LilyM]

But hey, if we are both on the same page, I’ll HAPPILY call in such a way to get to talk to her a little more!

After two years you don’t know whether she’d be happy for you to call and talk to her?

Yeah, actually. I’d be able to do that. Those two are so nice. They actually went on a trip with her, and were going to ask her about me…but didn’t!! OH NO!! I was all like “WHY DIDN’T YOU SAY SOMETHING???”
It was funny.

Only if you don’t mean funny-amusing. And they’re so nice that they didn’t bother to help you out? Have they had no other contact with her apart from this one trip?

Ah, but I need to find out what the river thinks about it…
…Ok…that sounded kinda hippy-ish…I mean, I need to talk to her first.

I repeat, after two years you don’t know what she thinks? When you were just saying a couplea posts back, to continue the analogy, that this little fishy was happy to be caught - in other words that you were sure she reciprocated your feelings?

Then you, my friend, most probably are indeed wasting your time.

 

[Belgarion]

After two years you don’t know whether she’d be happy for you to call and talk to her?

That’s not what I mean.
I mean that after two years, I don’t know if she’d want me to break the rules with her so that we could talk. But hey, we’ve done things that her father didn’t like, and she didn’t complain at all.

Only if you don’t mean funny-amusing. And they’re so nice that they didn’t bother to help you out? Have they had no other contact with her apart from this one trip?

No. They see her regularly. Probably more often than I do. However, they don’t go many places where its just HER with them.
Its funny-amusing to think about NOW…not THEN…lol

I repeat, after two years you don’t know what she thinks? When you were just saying a couplea posts back, to continue the analogy, that this little fishy was happy to be caught - in other words that you were sure she reciprocated your feelings?

No, I know what she feels about me, and I know all that jazz.
But I need to know what she’s doing and if she has a hand in the games they’re playing. Because if she does, she first needs to know how that makes me feel, and if she doesn’t want to set things right, then its goodbye. I don’t care if she loves me to death. She needs to stop playing games, or at least stop standing by while I’m being played.
Then you, my friend, most probably are indeed wasting your time.

Yeeeeaah…that’s what I’m looking to figure out.