Is the time right for a repeal of the 2nd amendment?

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I think Marlins have some panache! Look at em;

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And for the godless heathen with a broken mind that doesn’t appreciate wooden stocks;
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MonteRCMS:
If you take an AR-15 and file off the handle(s) and a few other extraneous bits, then it looks no different than any other rifle.
And it acts no different than any other semiautomatic
Which still makes them a problem.

How do you feel about detachable magazines, Jon? Protected by the 2nd?
 
As I stated earlier based on my experiences with my own mentally ill brother, it is EXTREMELY difficult to remove a mentally ill man’s right to bear arms BEFORE they’ve done something heinous.
Your experience is based on existing law. New law could readily be crafted that removed weapons on a temporary basis while some form of assessment is happening.
 
Your experience is based on existing law. New law could readily be crafted that removed weapons on a temporary basis while some form of assessment is happening.
The issue will be due process. When can a person’s rights be taken from them? We must also keep in mind that whatever “exceptions” to due process we make to this right could also be applied to others.
 
Women want guns so they can defend their homes:


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The issue will be due process. When can a person’s rights be taken from them? We must also keep in mind that whatever “exceptions” to due process we make to this right could also be applied to others.
I realize it has risks, but I expect some changes will be made.

If we can take guns away from an abusive spouse, it can be done to someone making threats to kill others, at least on a temporary basis while the charges are being adjudicated.
 
Well, it’s all protected by the 2nd since the SCOTUS has not said they are not.
So everything not explicitly forbidden by the constitution or SCOTUS is a constitutional right?

I think you see the issue there…

On the other hand, it’s not protected by the 2nd because the 94-04 assault weapons ban made mags over 10 rounds illegal to purchase, manufacture or import.
Rifles are responsible for fewer deaths than than bare hands and feet, fewer than by knives.
Completely irrelevant. Completely.

The issue is the societal cost vs societal benefit of these things being legal. It seems they “cost” society substantially more than any imagined benefit they provide. Ergo, they shouldn’t be easy to obtain.
Rifles are not the problem.
That’s some Fox-News-level spin and misdirection, there. Seriously.

They’re absolutely part of the problem. All semi-autos are.
 
If we can take guns away from an abusive spouse, it can be done to someone making threats to kill others, at least on a temporary basis while the charges are being adjudicated.
I agree, I think this can be done in the same way we hold someone after indictment. Communicating a threat is a crime. My only concerns are
  1. swift action at adjudication
  2. swift return of private property to innocent parties
 
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Theo520:
If we can take guns away from an abusive spouse, it can be done to someone making threats to kill others, at least on a temporary basis while the charges are being adjudicated.
I agree, I think this can be done in the same way we hold someone after indictment. Communicating a threat is a crime. My only concerns are
  1. swift action at adjudication
  2. swift return of private property to innocent parties
Some will say item 1) is a denial of due process. Communicating a threat is a crime, but it can only be declared a crime in a specific instance after a proper hearing. What if a family member comes to the police and reports they heard a verbal communication of a threat from “Alex?” They have no recording of the threat or other confirmation from anyone else. Just one person’s word. But that one person sounds very earnest. What does a judge do? Does he give the order to have Alex’s guns taken away immediately pending a swift trial at which Alex gets to present his defense and if he wins, get his guns back? Or does he first give Alex a chance to appear before the court and present his defense before his guns are taken away? I think the way most Gun Violence Protective Orders are written, the guns are taken away before anything else. Even though the denial of his 2nd amendment rights were only temporary, they did occur without what we would call due process in any other criminal proceeding. Does anyone have a problem with that? I don’t. But I just wonder how others look at this question.
 
Women want guns so they can defend their homes:
Honestly, most women don’t.

And for those that do, a home invasion situation is white-elephant rare. If you consider it a real threat based on the probability of happening, then you also walk around in a Faraday cage to protect yourself from rogue lightening strikes…

And, as said earlier, someone who is actually planning to enter your home in malice while you’re in it is probably going to plan a time where you’re not at full tactical readiness. They will probably exploit their tremendous element of surprise and you’ll be shot or pacified mere moments after they breach your door. Didn’t matter if you had a loaded Mark 48 machine gun ready to rock and roll in your closet.

To me, it sounds like you’re saying “These things should be readily available so that I can be fully prepared for a situation that statistically will never happen to me and if it does my armament will probably not make a difference!”

Seriously Monte. That’s what it sounds like to me.
 
That is why I have good quality doors with deadbolts. They will buy me the 20 seconds that I need to get my Glock 19 from my safe.
 
That is why I have good quality doors with deadbolts. They will buy me the 20 seconds that I need to get my Glock 19 from my safe.
I’m not saying that’s not true; but a door, deadbolt and frame that can withstand a 200lb man putting his adrenaline-driven boot right through it ain’t something you bought at the home improvement store…
 
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@starshiptrooper
As an aside, if you want to make your door breach-resistant (nothing will make it breach-proof unless you’re wealthy), then put your deadbolt near the top of the door.

One of my groomsmen is a state policeman. He’s done a multitude of breaches. On his advice, if the door and lock are low enough that he can put his foot on them in a forward-walking motion, then he can go through your locked door almost without breaking stride.

The handful of doors he’s encounter bolted at the top? They pivot just enough to not fail on a kick.

Don’t get me wrong - they get the door down. Pronto. But that difference makes it take just a liiittle longer.
 
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Gun control is one of those issues where I personally feel some conservative American Catholics on CAF are acting as “patriots first, Catholics second”, or even maybe further down the pecking order.

The right-wing in America doesn’t do this uniformly: their stances on abortion and religious freedom are, for instance, naturally in accord with Catholic doctrine.

But in this respect, the heresy of Americanism truly rears its ugly head.

The medieval canonists of our church in the 12th century, beginning with the jurist Gratian’s Decretum, were the first thinkers in history to conceive of subjective and inviolable “natural rights”. There were a number of such rights that the medieval church recognized in its canon law, many of them rather modern sounding, as historians of the period explain:

But the canon lawyers who wrote around 1200 [had] a more humanist, more individualist culture…In their writings, ius naturale was now sometimes defined in a subjective sense as a faculty, power, force, ability inhering in individual persons.

From this initial subjective definition, the canonists went in to develop a considerable array of natural rights.

Around 1250 Pope Innocent VI wrote that ownership of property was a right derived from natural law and that even infidels enjoyed this right, along with a right to form their own governments.24 Other natural rights that were asserted in the thirteenth century included a right to liberty, a right of self-defense, a right of the poor to support from the surplus wealth of the rich.
And again in Roger Ruston’s “Human Rights and the Image of God” p. 43:
This right was considered to derive from the fundamental inclination of all natures to preserve themselves in being. By about 1300, the particular rights that were being defended in terms of natural law included rights to property, rights of consent to government, rights of self-defence, rights of infidels, marriage rights, and procedural rights in a court of law. Canon lawyers argued, for example, 'that the basic rules of legal procedure guaranteeing a fair trial were based on the natural right
So, the canonists and decretalists working for the papacy were likely the first to speak about a “right to self-defense”, among a whole list of other rights that princes, or rather the government, had no power to infringe.

But you don’t find in these texts an inviolable “right to bear arms”, for civilians to unilaterally own dangerous weapons of their choosing.

This arose from English common law and is a particularly Protestant notion rooted in the English Civil War (1641-1651) and the Bill of Rights of the English Parliament during the Glorious Revolution (1688-89).

Throughout Catholic history, the papacy has seen it fit to institute different kinds of arms controls. This began in the Middle Ages.

(continued…)
 
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At the Second Lateran Council in 1139, for example, the use of bows and crossbows by Catholics was prohibited under pain of anathema:
29. We prohibit under anathema that murderous art of crossbowmen and archers, which is hateful to God, to be employed against Christians and Catholics from now on.
The crossbow was akin to assault rifles today, remarkably accurate and deadly at vast distances. When the crossbow was introduced in Europe, it was the only weapon that could penetrate armor at that time. It had become the weapon of choice for urban militias during the course of the 12th century and its fatal qualities had led many medieval governments to produce and purchase them in large numbers.

Because it was seen as a weapon hateful to God and unfit for Christians, this prohibition was confirmed, at the close of the same century, by Pope Innocent III. One historian notes that: “the qualitative arms control effort in Lateran Council Decree 29 applies more generally to all kinds of bow-and-arrow weapons”.

A book by the Royal Military College of Canada explains how:

“… The second Ecumenical Lateran Council outlawed the use of the crossbow among Christians in 1139. Robert L. O’Connell has observed that the edict, as perhaps humanity’s first overt attempt at arms control, is deserving of more attention than it usually receives…”
In contemporary times, the U.S. Catholic bishops’ issued a document entitled: “Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice” in November 2000, which stated:
"As bishops, we support measures that control the sale and use of firearms and make them safer – especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children or anyone other than the owner – and we reiterate our call for sensible regulation of handguns."
That’s followed by a footnote that states: “However, we believe that in the long run and with few exceptions – i.e. police officers, military use – handguns should be eliminated from our society.”
 
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You are describing the he said/she said conundrum of most cases of spousal abuse, yet some jurisdictions have figured out how to disarm the spouse.
 
They only wanted the crossbow banned because it allowed the peasants to kill knights, and the powerful could not have that happening. The next thing you know, those serfs might think that the agents of the state are not inherently superior.
 
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@starshiptrooper If that was the only intent behind the prohibition, then why did the council fathers ban knightly jousts in the same council decree?
  1. We entirely forbid, moreover, those abominable jousts and tournaments in which knights come together by agreement and rashly engage in showing off their physical prowess and daring, and which often result in human deaths and danger to souls. If any of them dies on these occasions, although penance and viaticum are not to be denied him when he requests them, he is to be deprived of a church burial.
Not that anybody listened to the Church on either score, albeit to the detriment of society.
 
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Gun control is one of those issues where I personally find some conservative American Catholics on CAF to be acting as “patriots first, Catholics second”.
While you are welcome to your opinion, your quotes actually contradicted your position.

Also your interpretation that the canonists didn’t explicitly say “right to bear arms” seems ludicrous - they wrote during an age when guns weren’t available. Did you think they meant the right to self defense using soup spoons and paring knives?

Your quotes about long bows and cross bows seemed to be directed at how war was waged.
 
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