Is WoW a sin?

[chris_molter]

Actually, I’m off the pipe. I can’t really justify putting that kind of time into a game with everything I have going on.

Hey, I hear ya. I have a 2 month old baby now! Although I do still find time to sneak off to City of Heroes. It’s a much more casual player friendly MMO.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

The answer is, it’s situational. Ninjaing my Saronite node in Grizzly Hills definitely counts as a sin, for example. Missing your heal button and DI-ing the tank on Sartharion after the third dragon’s down … we’re verging on mortal sin here. Acceptable forms of penance include two hours of fishing, donating slot enchants, or (in near-mortal cases) running the wronged party’s lowbie alt through Gnomeregan.

 

[Exalt]

The answer is, it’s situational. Ninjaing my Saronite node in Grizzly Hills definitely counts as a sin, for example. Missing your heal button and DI-ing the tank on Sartharion after the third dragon’s down … we’re verging on mortal sin here. Acceptable forms of penance include two hours of fishing, donating slot enchants, or (in near-mortal cases) running the wronged party’s lowbie alt through Gnomeregan.

You are amazing.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

You are amazing.

Thank you–what you might lack as a judge of character, you make up for in kindness!

As I’ve said before, though, Catholics could possibly learn something from WoW. Consider the effect on vocations if priests were actually able to do stuff like Shadowform, Inner Fire, Mind Blast, etc. There’s a fellow you’d darned well BETTER confess to.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Thank you–what you might lack as a judge of character, you make up for in kindness!

As I’ve said before, though, Catholics could possibly learn something from WoW. Consider the effect on vocations if priests were actually able to do stuff like Shadowform, Inner Fire, Mind Blast, etc. There’s a fellow you’d darned well BETTER confess to.

huffs

Hmph! They are ain’t so tough! I bet if you get real close to them enough you could cream 'em like all other spell casters. )8<

Pallies on the other hand though… is pwned . x_X

 

[LodT]

Though I do not play online, I have been playing RPGs since 1981 (does anyone remember Knights of Legend?), and I’ve been reading this thread with great interest.

There are a couple of things I’d like to contribute.

First of all, Satan exists. I had a closer encounter with him than I ever wish to have again while making the Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius at a Jesuit retreat house. Don’t make the mistake of laughing him off as a symbol, or a medieval survival, or a construct of the lunatic fringe. I’ve done all those, and I was wrong.

Secondly, anything, however good in itself, taken to excess, or used in particular ways, can become sinful. Even too many hours spent on CAF For instance, I am a dyed-in-the-wool bookworm. I find many social situations stressful. There have been times when I’ve chosen to stay home and do some reading - spiritual reading - instead of visiting a fellow parishioner I know to be in distress. So we could ask: is spiritual reading a sin? Answer - yes, in my case, on those particular days, it was.

All that said, I must add that I never choose evil paths or evil/sinful options in RPGs. I value my imagination as a powerful path to God. There is literally something within me that chokes on these options. But, that aside, I truly see no profit or fun in imagining myself acting in ways that conflict with my outlook on life.

 

[cynic]

Oppps !!! Keep the vision though. They hate you from your shoes on up.

I hear you but please do hear me. I did not say video games period. I am not into it myself, but I am sure there are wholesome games out there. I specifically said the ones that include but not be limited to, black or white magic, violence / combat, sexuality, spells and curses. That type of thing. You know it when you see it.

There’s black and white magic in tolkien, along with violence.

I’d stay away from WOW, mainly because the game is designed to suck away large amounts of time while the player achieves little (in game). More time = more revenue for the developers. You really have to be playing at ‘addiction’ levels, (running dungeons with a guild daily) before you can make any real progress. I tried playing it casually for a month or so, but the game isn’t designed for that. Oh and you can come in contact with some very nasty indivduals.

Play a decent Japanese RPG instead, like a classic Final Fantasy.

 

[n0th1n]

Well, its been a while since I’ve been on this forum (I even had to create a new account), but I was just looking around for things on the topic of Moral Theology and saw this.

First, on the matter of the original post: It’s mostly neutral. When it becomes excessive, you have a problem. When it interferes with how you otherwise live and treat people, you have a problem. Even when you look at it as just a game, and forget that there are real people on the other end which you are interacting with and should treat as real people who you still need to be polite to, you have a problem. If you start confusing reality and fantasy you have a problem.

Second, on the greater matter brought up about Dungeons and Dragons and the like: The last post actually pointed to something most of you seem to miss, probably from unfamiliarity. Now, I myself do not play these games, though I have watched my friends play often enough (they don’t usually interest me, I prefer more creative Role Play which aren’t following such systems), and I know much about the history and beginnings of Dungeons and Dragons and other forms.
Dungeons and Dragons in particular (although sometimes less in recent editions) is based off of Tolkien’s Middle Earth Series. This should ring some bells of where I’m going for anyone familier with Tolkien himself and his Middle Earth writings outside of the Lord of the Rings.
The Tolkien base actually makes the games based very much on Roman Catholicism and the Judeo-Christian tradition. If you know the mythos of Middle-Earth, it is primarily just an alternate version of our World, including having a version of the Creation story (actually two slightly different ones, much like Genesis, but both involving God forming the universe out of nothing, heaven and God’s Angels [also created from God] existing before the World, and even a character almost identical to Satan and his history in every way, who rebels but is shown ultimately to be powerless against God, but decides to go into the created world and corrupt it with lies and deceit and other evils if he can). The difference is it includes other intelligent beings aside from Humans, with an intriguing element to them (The Firstborn, or Elves, for example, being the Children of God in the same way Humans are, but with a different purpose in God’s plan/ without the ‘strange new gift’ of death, which is actually good though “melkor” [Satan] has shrouded it in darkness).

In any case, you’ll find anything relating to actual magic done by evil forces (if even them), who are meant to be rejected. You’ll find elves and people like Gandolf doing what APPEARS to be magic, and is called such due to improper language, but is explained to not actually be magic at all but simply a natural creative force due to various aspects of their natures given to them by God.

Now, some have noted you can play as these other evil forces in these games and such. Well, if you’d like, you can draw upon the traditions in the Bible which are rejected for worship of other gods, or find the basis for Lucifism in many areas as well. Good and evil are presented, as in the real world, and you choose your own path, like in the real world, except that this is Fantasy, not reality, and does not effect the objective reality in itself.

Can someone take it too seriously? Can someone TRY and ACTUALLY summon spirits because of this? Sure, people that don’t understand it and are already corrupt or corrupted by other means. I’m sure you’re all aware that one of the biggest corruptions of religion is superstition, which rises from people not understanding what things really mean and taking them to ‘magical’ extremes. This is a danger with anything, not at all particular to these games, and is in fact a crime against the games which do not ask to be used for such purposes. Just as the Bible, while presenting the existence of Demons, does not ask for you to go looking for demons to play with, nor while acknowledging the power of God to do anything ask you to test it by throwing yourself off a building trusting God to send His angels to save you. And this is actually a step detracted from that as it is meant to be understood as pure fantasy, and for most healthy individuals it is very difficult to confuse.

 

[Highwayhound]

Summer of 1997 vs. WOW

Picture if you will a bright sunny day along a trail in the Wisconsin wilderness. My dog Cyclops and I pedaled along the trail of packed limestone. Cyclops road atop the camping gear which was loaded on the Blue Sky Cyclecart. Ahead in the distance I spotted a rather large skunk. Slowing down a bit I still rolled forward and I realized the animal was something else.

“Oh no!! That is not a skunk. That’s a badger!”, I thought to myself. :bigyikes:

“Cyclops,” I motioned for my springer/lab/pitbull, all 55 lbs of dog, to jump off the trailer. Now all I wanted was my dog to make some noise. Cyclops recognized the approaching creature as an enemy. Cyclops had other ideas. Off my dog went, bolting right towards the badger…

And boy is it late. :yawn:

I will finish the story tomorrow if I have time. Have fun playing WOW or D&D or whatever.

God bless

 

[diggerdomer]

Is playing World of Warcraft a sin? What about other video games?

You are the only one who can answer this for yourself. So…what’s your answer?

 

[bobzills]

You are the only one who can answer this for yourself. So…what’s your answer?

Virtual violence seems to me to be a type of pornography, where you don’t actually kill the person, but you experience it on screen as you shoot your virtual automatic weapon. I read somewhere that pronography is a mortal sin, so I would guess that it would be a mortal sin to play these type of violent video games.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Virtual violence seems to me to be a type of pornography, where you don’t actually kill the person, but you experience it on screen as you shoot your virtual automatic weapon. I read somewhere that pronography is a mortal sin, so I would guess that it would be a mortal sin to play these type of violent video games.

There’s a difference between violence porn and sexual porn. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but the Church seems to be more against the latter.

Also, violence in WoW is faaaar from what you’d see in games like GTA or Manhunt. It’s not even a shooter! It’s an RPG. Besides, what is so sinful about killing a bunch of lifeless, fictional polygons?

 

[Highwayhound]

So my dog Cyclops bolts right for this badger up ahead of us on the path. I am thinking this is not good as I have heard and read about the ferocity of badgers.

The badger has now seen Cyclops and its fur is raised and it is hissing loudly. Cyclops adroitly dodges the badger to its left.

Whew! Cyclops puts on the brakes and skids to a stop, turns and readies another charge. I step on my bicycle pedals and start gathering some momentum in order to hit the badger with my front wheel of ramming +3 (sorry I could not resist).

Out of the bushes to my right just a bit ahead of me steps another badger. A most unwelcome development it was. The first badger sees this new badger and immediately changes its posture to a defensive one. Snarling and hissing a plenty.

I brake to a stop as the new badger darts into the cover of brush on the other side of the trail. The first badger seeing the other badger is under cover backs its way into the brush disappearing.

Calm returned to the path. All was well, not even a minor injury.

This was a real life event with real pulse raising moments.

Now, anyone care to recount how you took out a horde of goblins or slew a dragon?

God bless

 

[jean8]

Is playing World of Warcraft a sin? What about other video games?

chozzle,
I finally found out what WoW is.
You know the answer to your question. Has this game become an obsession?
Do you neclect your daily living duties to play this game? How about church? Friends?
I don’t know your age so I’m limited in my reply. If your a teen or a student. Wow should definitly take a back seat. This game falls into one of your activities to enjoy when you have free time.
I spend time on the PC when I have time. I clean up the kitchen and tidy up before I go on line.

jean

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

This was a real life event with real pulse raising moments.

Now, anyone care to recount how you took out a horde of goblins or slew a dragon?

God bless

Actually, I did just that around an hour ago although it wasn’t World of Warcraft. It was another addictive game called Monster Hunter Freedom 2 (a PSP game). It’s not as expansive as World of Warcraft but it sure makes up for it with its mix of RPG and action-oriented gameplay.

I wouldn’t exactly call the thing I killed a ‘dragon’ however. Technically, the game mythos classifies it as a wyvern but I have my own name for it too: A skinny, oversized, naked chicken with a big frill.



Most expert players consider this a ‘noob’ monster but that’s no excuse to get cocky. In fact, the quest I took had a raised difficulty, which meant that this beastie was a lot meaner than a regular one.

Still, the harder they are, it just makes it all the more fun and makes the prizes far more… rewarding.

I first started at the base camp where all hunters always do at the beginning of the quest. My equipment gave me the ability to detect the exact location of the beast (Auto-Tracker is so convenient… ). I sprinted off immediately as my tracker indicated that it was starting to take flight and arrived just in time in the area it was headed to.

I carefully looked up into the sky so I could plan a quick surprise attack once it found a spot to start descending. Unfortunately, I was a bit slow and its talons were just millimeters from the ground when I made my first strike.

Now in this game, my weapon of choice is the katana (a very long one in fact). Not only does it have fairly long reach and high attack power, its also quite fast to swing. Its only downside though is its inability to guard which meant a lot of dodging on my part.

This wyvern I was dealing with had a lot of weak spots compared to others which made this a lot more fun. I especially loved backing off as it rushed and tried to bite me only for me to move back in and stab its beak, followed by a clean upwards slash. That’s the thing I love about games like this, the thrill of combat! >8D

It feels even better when you start leaving actual injuries on the thing. You see, in this game, there are many big monsters who have parts that ‘break’ once you hit them a good many times. You can even cut the tails off some of them if you’re skilled enough. In the case of this monster though, I managed to slash and poke its head many times enough to shred the frill on its head.

Things started to get more difficult though when it started flying off to other areas (I hate it when they do that. ) One area was a swampy bog and another was a field with really tall grass. That wasn’t the real issue though. My actual problem was that these two areas both had aggressive mobs of weaker monsters and they kept getting in the way (not to mention they left me dangerously open for the big chicken). It really took a while to get rid of them before focusing my attacks back on my actual prey. Sometimes I even had them direct their moves to each other to help whittle their health a bit.

When the big chicken finally started limping (they do that when you’re close to beating them) it flew off to its nest. I followed it, obviously, because if you get lazy and let it take even a few seconds of rest in its abode, it’ll regain a good deal of health and I’m not fond of redoing things.

Needless to say, things were a walk in the park after that. After a few more minutes of fancy slashing, avoiding its rushes, and dodging its tail, it finally fell down dead (accompanied with the fanfare of victory music to boot XD).

Honestly folks, I highly doubt I’ll ever find any real-world activity that gives me that feeling of EPIC PWNAGE that I get from slaying big, bad wyverns (or other savage and malevolent entities). Heck, every time I pwn something with my katana I feel like some cool, bishie samurai warrior or something.

*Chan Chan Bara Chanbara
Chan Bara Bara Chanbara

Samurai Sentai Shinkenger!!

Appare!!*

 

[losh14]

Couple of thoughts - this isn’t a moot point just because the asker is now banned.
There’s two major issues I see here - one is that of addiction, and the other is that of introduction to evil themes.

I have a friend, an osteopath, who is researching game addiction and one of the tenets of games like WoW is what he calls “experience inflation” - there’s no actual “END” to the game, so to speak. You kill the bad guys, there’s more the next day. You complete a quest, there’s another waiting for you in the tavern. He said that’s one problem with truly open-ended games (MMOGs, unlike say the GTA series which only has so many “quests”), and he advises parents who are concerned to have their children set a goal and a timeline (“I will reach one level higher and be satisfied with my goal”), or otherwise to set finite limits on game time (“I will spend two hours this weekend ONLY if I have B’s or better in all my classes”), because not all adults (and even fewer children) have the emotional maturity to just walk away from instant gratification like that.

Relatedly, my aunt, a school psychologist of nearly 30 years, has told me she noticed that junior high kids who play D&D tend to have impulse control problems (acting out, violent behavior). Now she can’t say whether these problems exist because of D&D, or whether these problems help drive them into social situations where a fantasy game is their method of meaningful interpersonal communication because they really have an underlying anxiety disorder. I’ve not seen any such problems with well-adjusted 20-somethings who’ve played D&D and other such games.

As far as the subject matter, I think it depends upon the person. Some people cannot separate fantasy from reality. I’m a strategy buff and I’m just getting into Magic (not at a tournament level - I really just want to see how it works and introduce it into our guys’ game nights), but I know that playing Magic doesn’t make me any more a sorcerer than playing Eve: The 2nd Genesis (another card game) makes me a starship pilot. Granted, this is a group of guys in their 30s, mostly married, with graduate degrees and kids, and so we know fantasy to be a good story not an alternate reality… unless we have too many beers that night.

That said, there are some games I’m not comfortable with. I had friends in high school who did LARP - and a funny story about two of them getting arrested one night. D&D was fine (I always found it kinda boring), but when they pulled out some of the Lovecraft-inspired stuff it just creeped me out. I was uncomfortable with it. I used to read tarot cards in our dorm as a way to meet girls (and I was really good at reading nonverbals, so I was good at the tarot cards), but I put them away when the girls started putting credence into the cards themselves. I gave them to a friend who used them for a while and then said he felt like there was something evil coming from them. I told him to just toss the cards (to me, they’re decorative pieces of paper) but if they made him feel uneasy, he should just burn them - I attribute this to a placebo effect more than anything.

Kids and some people who don’t have that internal filter might not get this stuff. I’ve got a friend who once got so into an anime serial about Atlantis that he researched and wrote a term paper on Atlantis for a college history class. He was very confused when he got an F, which was a little disturbing to us. When you combine the obsessiveness with an all-too-willing suspension of disbelief, you get people blanking in and out of reality. This same friend also got into occult stuff along with the Pokemon and things like that - I think his interest was first in the occult, and it was very much that he was not raised with any sense of spirituality other than “You go to church on Sunday and that’s all you need”. I felt bad, looking back, when I would lend him copies of my NIN and other industrial metal CDs because he used it as a launch point to some very dysfunctional emotional place that he would go - and I wish I had caught it earlier.

By the same token, you could ask me why last night I stayed up until 2 a.m. playing Mount & Blade, a game where you ride on horseback slashing and clonking your way through fields of medieval infantry. It’s a different tone than one of the Total War series of games - games that are very strategic, you’re the commander of 10,000 troops overseeing an entire field of battle. In M&B, it’s just you, your steed, your sword, and the bloodied corpse behind you. Yeah, it does kinda disturb me that I have that much aggression left in me after a full day doing taxes to get into such a rampage. I would say it’s “venting” because I haven’t been able to get to the gym and do something physical in a few days, but I shouldn’t need physical violence to do that, and there’s a profound distinction between lifting weights and running, and equine-assisted decapitation.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Of course not. By itself at least. Now if you let it get you to the point where its all you do and you neglect other relationships or become slothenly then maybe. But playing a video game by itself is morally neutral. Other video games? It would depend on the game. Super Mario Brothers, no, Grand Theft Auto, probably.

I always go by this rule, “Too much of everything can be bad for your state in life. Moderation is the best policy.”

If you game 24-7 a week, yeah that would be bad. I remember reading an article, Korean died after playing 50 hours (Source: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4137782.stm ).

From the same article:

Psychologist Professor Mark Griffiths, author of several in-depth studies into online gaming and gambling addiction, told the BBC News website that, according to his research, playing excessively was not problematic in any shape or form for the majority of gamers.

If it becomes an addiction, then gaming is bad. It isn’t a sin unless you end up harming yourself by neglecting sleep, eating, etc. Of course, for it to be mortal, you have meet the three conditions of mortal sin. I do not think it is venial sin if you game it for fun…

 

[Non_sum_dignus]

Call me liberal, but I honestly don’t think playing an online video game is going to cause demons to attach themselves to me.

Perhaps, but I have seen many cases where extended video gaming has caused fat to attach itself in significant quantities to a player’s butt.

True story.

 

[bobzills]

Call me liberal, but I honestly don’t think playing an online video game is going to cause demons to attach themselves to me.

This is where you are wrong because it is sinful to delberately put evil thoughts in your mind, whether these thoughts be violent or Satanic,

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

This is where you are wrong because it is sinful to delberately put evil thoughts in your mind, whether these thoughts be violent or Satanic,

What is so evil about a lighthearted desire to win a game (or at least be good at it)?