Is WoW a sin?

[Melissa]

Maybe we need a Busy Persons’ Apostolate - to help organize people with limited free time to do tasks that can be done piecemeal.

And not only piecemeal, but at very odd hours, besides.

For example, you could say that much of my job might be considered a service (I work as a relay operator for the deaf, hearing-impaired, and speech-disabled) which might or might not be furthering the kingdom of God (while some of the people will tell me that my working at this job is a blessing, not all uses of the relay service are good), it’s indirect at the very best. And when I come home from work after getting off at midnight or 12:15am … well, there’s not a lot of volunteer work that people want done at those hours, but I’m still too wired from work/driving home to just hop immediately to bed. I can knock off a paragraph or two in my on-line play-by-post games while I’m winding down, though. Or I can shoot chickens for awhile. (Wonder what that’s about? Take a peek: Chicken Invaders 3 It’s got a free demo for an hour so you can give it a try and see if it’s up your alley before spending any money (and be sure not to click through the cut scenes … the comedy writing is hilarious).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think you have to be hard on yourself and not luke warm because according to Scripture:
“I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot. But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.” - Apocalypse 3:16

It’s not about being lukewarm. It’s about trying to make your way into a radically turbulent world with a society that doesn’t give you the time that the old shepherds of the Bible had. I mean seriously, you either have to be some sort of hermit who shuns that society or a really lucky dude who has a lot of his/her slack cut in order to have that much free time.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Excuse me? It’s just that the latter has been around longer so there’s a better-established tradition condemning it.

Edwin

The problem with trying to pin down “violence porn” is that it has the potential to have a wide range depending on the person. You could have someone putting old Disney cartoons under that simply due to them having Mickey mouse hitting somebody with a mallet.

It’s not like sexual pornography where showing some skin can be slightly more understandable.

 

[losh14]

I think you have to be hard on yourself and not luke warm because according to Scripture:
“I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot. But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.” - Apocalypse 3:16

Are you suggesting that people who play video games are entirely useless as Christians?
Note that the Lord, in Rev 3:14-22, prefers hot or cold equally and in opposition to tepid. Laodicea was known for its springs. The preference for cold water is because it is drinkable, for hot water because it cleanses. Lukewarm water can do neither - and likewise the Laodiceans, fixated upon their riches, were good for neither the ministry of forgiveness (the hot water, ie cleansing) nor for the ministry of charity (the cold water, ie slaking thirst).

I could understand being hard on yourself if it were to truly do good. But what good comes of forsaking all leisure? “A worker is entitled to his wages” (Luke 10:7, 1 Tim 5:18) and to enjoy the fruits of labor (Dt 20:5-9) as they are gifts of God (Ec 5:18-20). They should not be the focus of life (as was the error of the Laodiceans), but they should not be written out altogether. If one can enjoy the fruits of one’s labor and remain both faithful and charitable, where is there room for condemnation?

Certainly some can accept such a life, but it isn’t called for everyone. Even Paul rebuked Timothy for maintaining too hard of a diet (1 Tim 5:23) - and Paul himself was a wealthy man who maintained his business during his apostolate, which did not prevent him from evangelizing. For those who can forsake the world in its entirety, the Kingdom of Heaven is nearer. For the rest of us, we will continue to grow in faith and be a positive presence in the world.

 

[bobzills]

I could understand being hard on yourself if it were to truly do good. But what good comes of forsaking all leisure?

There is good leisure and there is bad leisure. Leisure which improves and strengthens one’s health or supports love for one’s neighbor is good. But leisure which implants ideas of hatred, malice, brutality, bloodlust, and horrific killing and torture of one’s neighbor is bad.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

There is good leisure and there is bad leisure. Leisure which improves and strengthens one’s health or supports love for one’s neighbor is good. But leisure which implants ideas of hatred, malice, brutality, bloodlust, and horrific killing and torture of one’s neighbor is bad.

I’d just like to say one thing. Fictional monsters and entities who have the intent of killing you aren’t considered “neighbors”.

 

[Highwayhound]

Hey, not all of us are charismatic event organizers or charity runners. Neither are all of us teachers or are good with kids. Those are pretty much the qualities of leaders or people who make it into a dean’s list if you know what I mean.

And once again, I’m a little irritated that people are trying to put spirituality and entertainment into the same box. If I want spirituality, I go to mass or read the Bible and stuff like that. If I wanna have fun though, then it’s off to Azeroth (or some other gameworld like Rune-Midgard, Tamriel etc). Once again, it’s all a question of moderation vs addiction.

Besides, playing these video games takes a lot of skill on their own. Unlike gambling (as someone else mentioned), these things aren’t wholly dependent on pure chance. Trust me, this is coming from a guy who used to get his butt kicked all the time in these games because he was such a noob (with an equally noobish stat build). You need good reflexes, good point/money managing skills, as well as a bit of math to calculate damage and stats. You’d also be a little surprised about how these games can teach you about basic economic concepts (e.g. Supply and Demand).

Lost Wanderer,

I was at the console playing PONG, Asteroids and Donkey Kong. I fully understand computer games and the enjoyment they can bring a person. I understand all which you are communicating. There are acts which one can do which will give greater joy and greater WOW! I am trying to share that with people.

For example, I ask anyone reading this do they go visit a shut-in or nursing home patient? Once a week I do so. Are there times when I want to drive by and get home to fiddle around on the computer? Several times, but I fight that urge and turn into the parking lot. Della and I usually watch Price is Right (Drew Carey is no Bob Barker) or work on a puzzle. After a short visit I go on with the day. A real life quest has been fulfilled. There is time for the computer later.

What are your favorite books of the Bible? I like Psalms, Proverbs and the Gospel of Luke.

I work in marketing research as a statistician. My work doesn’t further the kingdom - it involves helping businesses to reach their customers better. I’m often working at night and weekends and that doesn’t leave me time to get involved with charity work as I did in college, not to mention that we have a baby on the way and I’m studying for a professional certification. Sometimes I wonder if the volunteer coordinator for our local Catholic Charities is retired, because the sole opportunities seem to arise during business hours.

A baby on the way is very cool! I have lost more good friends to marriage and raising families. It is awesome to see the guys raising their kids and being fathers. You will have a great impact on this little one and definately be doing your part for God’s kingdom.

Maybe we need a Busy Persons’ Apostolate - to help organize people with limited free time to do tasks that can be done piecemeal.

I understand being busy, too. When I was 24 I was living in Las Vegas. It was then that I first got this idea to go bicycle touring. I did not go then because I was too busy working, had too much responsibility, etc. So five years past I am 29 yrs old and I thought, “I have to do this or I might never do it.” So that summer I stopped everything and hit the road. It was awesome. It was a life changing decision. It has lead me to where I am today. The choices made now put God first. It has been a long road to here.

Hopefully anyone reading this is now thinking, “What if…?” or “What can I do…?”

God bless

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Lost Wanderer,

I was at the console playing PONG, Asteroids and Donkey Kong. I fully understand computer games and the enjoyment they can bring a person. I understand all which you are communicating. There are acts which one can do which will give greater joy and greater WOW! I am trying to share that with people.

I get your point here but I’d just like to say that the games you’ve played are a little less sophisticated. Ever played RPGs? (e.g. Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, the Tales of series, Pokemon even) Those are games that people can get really into. Not only do they have good graphics and gameplay, a good deal of them have stories that you might find very interesting.

For example, I ask anyone reading this do they go visit a shut-in or nursing home patient? Once a week I do so. Are there times when I want to drive by and get home to fiddle around on the computer? Several times, but I fight that urge and turn into the parking lot. Della and I usually watch Price is Right (Drew Carey is no Bob Barker) or work on a puzzle. After a short visit I go on with the day. A real life quest has been fulfilled. There is time for the computer later.

Yes I know the kind of things you want people to do but this is exactly what I’ve been saying. I admit right now, I am not an easy person to talk to offline which is exactly why I’m not sure I’d want to do something like what you suggested. It’s just something I don’t feel I’m cut out for and I’m sure there are a lot of people who feel the same way. We each have our own calling to something.

Besides, as we have also mentioned, a lot of us lead extremely busy lives. Furthermore, “busy” and “stress” tend to go very much hand-in-hand in the daily bustle of 21st century civilization. Visiting a shut-in patient is saintly and charitable for sure, but I don’t know how that’s going to make me any less exhausted from work/school (and as you know, stress is very detrimental to your sanity). That is unless that patient turns out to be a really cute girl who is everything I could ask for in a future spouse but coincidentally has a rare disease that leaves her bedridden (then again, that’s the kinda stuff that only happens in romance anime or manga, best stop fantasizing >_<;; ).

People like you have a gift you know that? You’d be surprised how exceptional it is to find someone with a lot of guts to just jump up and do nice things like that.

What are your favorite books of the Bible? I like Psalms, Proverbs and the Gospel of Luke.

I’m not book specific to be honest but there are a good many times when I listened to a reading at Mass and found a lot things in it that related to my current life. I tend to go straight to Revelations though when I’m looking for something more aesthetic for my writing projects (come to think of it, the Four Horsemen could make interesting Kamen Riders… hmm… )

I understand being busy, too. When I was 24 I was living in Las Vegas. It was then that I first got this idea to go bicycle touring. I did not go then because I was too busy working, had too much responsibility, etc. So five years past I am 29 yrs old and I thought, “I have to do this or I might never do it.” So that summer I stopped everything and hit the road. It was awesome. It was a life changing decision. It has lead me to where I am today. The choices made now put God first. It has been a long road to here.

Hopefully anyone reading this is now thinking, “What if…?” or “What can I do…?”

God bless

Wow, good for you. What did your parents say though?
Seriously however, the only way I could wind up doing anything even close to what you did is for God to whisk me away to some magical fantasy land along with a few other unsuspecting people my age and we have to save said fantasy land from inevitable destruction. That would definitely make me consider all the things I do now with lesser significance (oh great, I’m day dreaming about my own anime/manga adventure again… I’ve got to stop doing that -_-;; ).

 

[bobzills]

I’d just like to say one thing. Fictional monsters and entities who have the intent of killing you aren’t considered “neighbors”.

But does the leisurely activity promote Christian virtues of love and charity and goodwill? Or does it promote images of hatred, bloodlust, torture, violence, malice and brutality?
I make a distinction between different types of leisurely activity and would not group all of them together in one basket.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

But does the leisurely activity promote Christian virtues of love and charity and goodwill? Or does it promote images of hatred, bloodlust, torture, violence, malice and brutality?
I make a distinction between different types of leisurely activity and would not group all of them together in one basket.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Don’t forget, there are a lot of people who play these games for neither. They’re just entertainment, period. A way to let out some steam. Besides, I’d rather pound polygon puppets to vent my stress and frustration than unintentionally take it out on other people because I’ve bottled it up.

And even if you keep insisting that it has to be this or that, keep in mind that it’s not a sin to defend yourself nor is it a sin to hunt creatures for sport. Another thing, so far I don’t see anything wrong with a love for excitement, action, and the thrill of combat as long as its directed against the appropriate… opponents. (Nothing relaxes me more than dishing combos on swarming mobs of monsters XD)

 

[bobzills]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Don’t forget, there are a lot of people who play these games for neither. They’re just entertainment, period. A way to let out some steam. Besides, I’d rather pound polygon puppets to vent my stress and frustration than unintentionally take it out on other people because I’ve bottled it up.

And even if you keep insisting that it has to be this or that, keep in mind that it’s not a sin to defend yourself nor is it a sin to hunt creatures for sport. Another thing, so far I don’t see anything wrong with a love for excitement, action, and the thrill of combat as long as its directed against the appropriate… opponents. (Nothing relaxes me more than dishing combos on swarming mobs of monsters XD)

As I understand it to be, the mind has a conscious and a subconscious element. Could it be possible that virtual violence with its mayhem, its brutality, its hatred and its malice, affects the subconscious mind and may not be visible on a conscious level? But in some individuals, later on it rears its ugly head into some real conscious hurtful activity? For example, I read in the newspaper about a teenager who slashed a middle aged man to death. People who knew him said that he was a decent, friendly and even-keeled level-headed person. However, upon examining his Myspace page, the police found descriptions in which he said that he regularly played and enjoyed violent video games.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

As I understand it to be, the mind has a conscious and a subconscious element. Could it be possible that virtual violence with its mayhem, its brutality, its hatred and its malice, affects the subconscious mind and may not be visible on a conscious level? But in some individuals, later on it rears its ugly head into some real conscious hurtful activity? For example, I read in the newspaper about a teenager who slashed a middle aged man to death. People who knew him said that he was a decent, friendly and even-keeled level-headed person. However, upon examining his Myspace page, the police found descriptions in which he said that he regularly played and enjoyed violent video games.

Such assumptions have never been psychologically proven and have only been used by the Jack Thompson crowd. Believe me, they’re a joke. Besides, you have to understand that such claims involve video games such as GTA and other gore fests. WoW and other similar games are RPGs. There’s a huge difference if you took the time and compared them with an open mind. For instance, have you actually seen someone cast Fireball? How about turning invisible at will? I’m pretty sure you know where to follow from here.

 

[Mintaka]

It seems to me that MMORPGs promote togetherness across the world, mass cooperation, and coordination of effort, more than anything else. In fact, that’s why I don’t play them; I think all the long grinding away at gaining skills and scheduling of raids sounds way too much like virtuous work and not at all like frivolous relaxation.

But clearly, not everyone agrees. :;

 

[AnonymousPrayer]

I can offer my own experience on the subject.

Before I joined the USMC, I was a video game finatic, I played quite often and it was most definetely unhealthy. After a while of playing a video game I would get ill-tempered and lash out even. It seemed that the games themselves were taking control of me and making me angry. I’m not sure why, but my mother also told me that she often saw those times when i would get unreasonably angry. After i got over the addiction i noticed a change in my behavior. I have more time for other things and I am at a greater peace than before. I’m not saying that a ‘demon’ had influenced me, but more along the lines of video games effecting one’s mind in a negative way. However I am not trying to exclude the possibility of spirits working through these machines either.

God bless.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I can offer my own experience on the subject.

Before I joined the USMC, I was a video game finatic, I played quite often and it was most definetely unhealthy. After a while of playing a video game I would get ill-tempered and lash out even. It seemed that the games themselves were taking control of me and making me angry. I’m not sure why, but my mother also told me that she often saw those times when i would get unreasonably angry. After i got over the addiction i noticed a change in my behavior. I have more time for other things and I am at a greater peace than before. I’m not saying that a ‘demon’ had influenced me, but more along the lines of video games effecting one’s mind in a negative way. However I am not trying to exclude the possibility of spirits working through these machines either.

God bless.

Here’s my own experience. I push my brain to the limit every day just to survive the academic demands of college. Right after that, I head to work, helping my family run our internet cafe whose regular customers happen to include a few obnoxious jerks who take pleasure at using up my patience. However, when all the chaos, headaches, and harassment ceases at the end of the day, nothing relaxes me more than to take out my frustration bombarding a dragon with explosive arrows or wiping out a band of ambushing bandits in my favorite games. You know, there’s just something soothing about being victorious in such situations.

 

[cynic]

Perhaps all non-worship or non purposef driven forms of entertainment should be avoided. I mean, that’s what some posters seem to be gettting at.

 

[bobzills]

I can offer my own experience on the subject.

Before I joined the USMC, I was a video game finatic, I played quite often and it was most definetely unhealthy. After a while of playing a video game I would get ill-tempered and lash out even. It seemed that the games themselves were taking control of me and making me angry. I’m not sure why, but my mother also told me that she often saw those times when i would get unreasonably angry. After i got over the addiction i noticed a change in my behavior. I have more time for other things and I am at a greater peace than before. I’m not saying that a ‘demon’ had influenced me, but more along the lines of video games effecting one’s mind in a negative way. .

This post makes a lot of sense.

 

[AnonymousPrayer]

This post makes a lot of sense.

I can’t help but detect sarcasm haha, let me know if I’m wrong but let me clarify… I did not join the USMC because of video games, but to help with the war on terror, and I resent the stereotype, as I was over my anger issues years before I joined up.

 

[bobzills]

I can’t help but detect sarcasm haha, let me know if I’m wrong but let me clarify… I did not join the USMC because of video games, but to help with the war on terror, and I resent the stereotype, as I was over my anger issues years before I joined up.

?
Post 93 makes sense to me, whereas post 97 does not.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

This post makes a lot of sense.

Which part specifically? The part about how video games made him cranky or the part about video games being potential causes of demonic possession? Either way, may I remind you that Jack Chick thinks the same way as well.

Just thought I’d point that out.