Islam

[morning_star777]

**For R_Not, since you enjoy accusations, and you called our prophet a womaniser, may I tell you that YOUR Jesus had some secret relations with Mary Magd. Why was that? It is being reported that your Jesus was secretly married to that Mary. She had been rubbing his feet with her hair and poured a very costly oil on his head.

Then she was present very early morning near the tomb to anoint Jesus with perfumes, on Sunday morning. Why was she there if she was not related. Please R_Not explain these secret womanising missions of your Jesus.**

Just not for R_not it is also for us.Can you prove it that jesus had a secret wife except the so called references of your da vinci code?Your prophet had 13 wives and one of them was 9 years old,and your scripture hadiths support it.Do you think that taking 13 wives is a good manner?and marrying 9 years old girl was not…?Some one can feel the blank I should not do it because I am already too much upset with your previous post.What about the virgins in heaven?If in heaven you will get whatever you want like if you will to eat then food will appear automatically,then why need hoories?It is clear that they are for sex,and what do you think about the sex party in islamic heaven with 72 women?Is it good?Your scriptures that written by your muhaamed say so.Have you any answer?

 

[planten]

Planten I never expected such a hateful post from you.Jesus is our Lord and you also claim that he is one of your prophet.But you proved that muslim do not respect lord jesus or other jewish and christians prophet.islam just tried to use our lord.Muslims love only Muhammed and all prophets are meaningless to them.You proved it.

** Morning_Star, please see the post No.213 of R_Not before making any remarks. I suppose you read only fe wthings and omit the others which are extremely bad for me. See the words of R_Not in post #213**.

That is not the problem! The problem is that they follow a prophet who was a looter, a mass murderer, a marauding gangster, a pedophile, an assasin, a lustful womanizer, a liar, an enslaver, and what not

 

[R_not]

**R_Not, I tell you that you are a kafir. And your Jesus was the greatest cheater and liar. He tried to be the king of the Jews. But when he was caught, he changed his wordings and said that his kingdom was not of this world. See his cleverness?

I may have to discuss the doubtful (manner) birth of your Jesus again on this forum with more emphasis soon.
**

planten - I already know that you consider me a kafir. I find your bashing of Jesus unjustified because not even your prophet called Jesus a cheat and a liar. What I find you is a good, widdle muslim - and that to me is worse than being a kafir.

He never tried to be the King of the Jews on this earth - not once.

Did mohammed kill? Yes, too many to count
Did mohammed steal and loot? Yes, so often and he took so much that he took so much that it is unknown how much he stole.
**Did mohammed enslave women and children? ** Yes, and he enslaved and passed them around as booty that we have no idea how many people he enslaved.
Did mohammed lie and tell his followers to lie? Yes, he told them to do so whenever they needed to do so and he told them to appear to people however they needed (appear peaceful, appear as non-muslims if need be, etc).
Did mohammed lust and take little children, take another’s wife, kill women’s husbands and then take them, etc? yes.
Did mohammed order assasinations? yes, he even ordered a woman with a child to be assasinated, and an old man that was about 100 years old.

That is what you follow and call a prophet.

And that isn’t all of it.

**Was mohammed a pagan? ** yes, he was a Hanif.
Did that pagan religion worship a moon god, and was a cult of fertility? yes, allah was the main god and there was a statue of it on top of the kabaa. And the rites of islam are the same from mohammed’s pagan religion, along with their worship of a black rock. But, the sad part isn’t that he was a pagan and that islam is an extension of that pagan religion, but that he took a relatively benign and peaceful religion and made it into a bloodthirsty idiology.
**Did mohammed do any miracles? ** No.
Did mohammed change the message of what he claims is the message of the previous prophets of the Bible? yes, which invalidates him being a prophet. He was an illiterate pagan who had no idea what the message of the Bible was.

And lastly:

**Did mohammed follow the 10 commandments of the Old Testament? ** No, he had to redefine sin because he broke most of the 10 commandments and in order to kill, steal, lie, take other’s wives.

 

[R_not]

To be a kafir is an honor. I said a prayer and thanked God that He gave me to parents that were Catholics, baptized me as a Catholic, and were able to raise me as a Catholic. I have always appreciated that fact and even more so when I was older - yes, even as a young adult. I thanked God that I am a kafir because if I were anything but, I would be breaking the 10 Commandments.

This website should show all that tolerance, forgiveness, peacefulness, or anything of the sort is taught in islam. In fact, unless you accept conversion to islam - they think we are all kafirs but part of islam is deception so they might not say it outright unless you are as blessed as as I am! :extrahappy:

kafir

Kafir is what the Koran and Islam call the unbelievers. Kafir is the worst word in the human language.

The Koran defines the kafir and says that the kafir is:

Hated- 40:35 They who dispute the signs of Allah [kafirs] without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers. So Allah seals up every arrogant, disdainful heart. and despised by Allah.

Mocked- 83:34 On that day the faithful will mock the kafirs, while they sit on bridal couches and watch them. Should not the kafirs be paid back for what they did?

Punished- 25:77 Say to the kafirs: My Lord does not care for you or your prayers. You have rejected the truth, so sooner or later, a punishment will come.

Beheaded- 47:4 When you encounter the kafirs on the battlefield, cut off their heads until you have thor-oughly defeated them and then take the prisoners and tie them up firmly.

Confused- 6:25 Some among them listen to you [Mohammed], but We have cast veils over their [kafirs] hearts and a heaviness to their ears so that they cannot understand our signs [the Koran].

Plotted against- 86:15 They plot and scheme against you [Mohammed], and I plot and scheme against them. Therefore, deal calmly with the kafirs and leave them alone for a while.

Terrorized- 8:12 Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the kafirs’ hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fin-gers!”

Annihilated- 6:45 So the kafirs were annihilated. All praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

Killed- 4:91 If they do not keep away from you or offer you peace or withdraw their hostilities, then seize them and kill them wherever they are. We give you complete authority over them.

Crucified- 5:33 The only reward for those who war against Allah and His messengers and strive to com-mit mischief on the earth is that they will be slain or crucified, have their alternate hands and feet cut off, or be banished from the land. This will be their disgrace in this world, and a great torment shall be theirs in the next except those who repent before you overpower them. Know that Allah is forgiving and merciful.

Made war on- 9:29 Make war on those who have received the Scriptures [Jews and Christians] but do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day. They do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden. The Christians and Jews do not follow the religion of truth until they submit and pay the poll tax [jizya], and they are humiliated.

A Muslim is not the friend of a kafir- 3:28 Believers should not take kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah’s protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear Him for all will return to Him.

A kafir is ignorant- 6:111 Even if We had sent down the angels to them [kafirs], the dead had spoken to them, and We had gathered all things before their eyes, they would not believe unless Allah had willed it, but most of them are ignorant.

Disgraced- 37:18 Tell them, “Yes! And you [kafirs] will be disgraced.” a partner of Satan 25:55 And still they worship others besides Allah who can neither help nor hurt them. The kafir is Satan’s ally against Allah. Unclean- 9:28 Oh, believers, only the kafirs are unclean.

Cursed- 33:60 They [kafirs] will be cursed, and wherever they are found, they will be seized and mur-dered. It was Allah’s same practice with those who came before them, and you will find no change in Allah’s ways.

Stolen from- Bukhari 5,59,537 On the day of Khaybar, Allah’s Apostle divided the spoils of war of Khaybar with the ratio of two shares for the horse and one share for the foot soldier.

Raped- Ishaq 759 [Mohammed’s official biography] On the occasion of Khaybar, Mohammed put forth new orders about forcing sex with captive women. If the woman was pregnant she was not to be used for sex until after the birth of the child. Nor were any women to be used for sex who were unclean with regard to Muslim laws about menstruation.

Christians and Jews are infidels, but infidels are kafirs, too. Polytheists are Hindus, but they are also kafirs. The terms infidel and polytheist are religious words. Only the word “kafir” shows the common political treatment of Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, animist, atheist and humanist.

The word kafir should be used instead of “unbeliever”, the standard word. Unbeliever is a neutral term. The Koran defines the kafir and kafir is not a neutral word. A kafir is not merely someone who does not agree with Islam, but a kafir is evil, disgusting, the lowest form of life. Kafirs can be tortured, killed, lied to and cheated. So the usual word “unbeliever” does not reflect the political reality of Islam.

 

[planten]

**R_Not, I never called you kafir before. I never called any one a kafir. But this title is only for you because you had abused the prophet and youhad been abusing Islam too for a long time.

It is you who made me say wrong words about Jesus.

Look waht you said in your post:

In fact, unless you accept conversion to islam - they think we are all kafirs but part of islam is deception so they might not say**

That is a lie. None of the peaceful friendly loving christian people are kafir. I have written it here many times. They believe in Jesus (their prophet). They believe in God. They do good deeds. Their matter is with Allah.

But you are always teaching wrong things about Islam. Moreover you are abusing a prophet of God. Therefore you are a kafir. that means an enemy of Islam. An open declared enemy of Islam. that is like the satan who is also an open declared enemy of mankind.

I hope you understand a few things now.

 

[R_not]

**R_Not, I never called you kafir before. I never called any one a kafir. But this title is only for you because you had abused the prophet and youhad been abusing Islam too for a long time.

It is you who made me say wrong words about Jesus.

Look waht you said in your post:

In fact, unless you accept conversion to islam - they think we are all kafirs but part of islam is deception so they might not say**

That is a lie. None of the peaceful friendly loving christian people are kafir. I have written it here many times. They believe in Jesus (their prophet). They believe in God. They do good deeds. Their matter is with Allah.

But you are always teaching wrong things about Islam. Moreover you are abusing a prophet of God. Therefore you are a kafir. that means an enemy of Islam. An open declared enemy of Islam. that is like the satan who is also an open declared enemy of mankind.

I hope you understand a few things now.

I don’t believe you anymore. Liars cannot be believed. No one forces anyone else to bash anyone, such as Jesus.

I am not abusing mohammed or islam - I am only telling the truth what that guy was and he wasn’t a prophet of god. I have already posted why he is not a prophet, but a megalomaniac, paranoid, overly sexed, murderous thief and liar who was an illiterate pagan who changed a relatively peaceful religion into something terrible. Your own koran and hadiths have that information that I posted about him.

10 reasons why mohammed is not a prophet:

1. Islam cannot be from God because the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, did not pass God’s first test for a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs. Muhammad gave no sign as required by God.
2. Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad’s teaching does not pass the second test God gave for a prophet. Deuteronomy 13:1-4 tells us that no prophet will bring a revelation that is in conflict with previous revelation. His revelation must agree with the previous revelation of God. Deuteronomy 13:1-4

(my comment: mohammed couldn’t even be consistent with his own rants and that is why even the koran has parts that were abrogated.)

read the rest for yourself…

Read the rest of the reasons

 

[TomaszA]

Planten,

First I want to thank you for your kind remarks to my reversion to Christianity, you said,

TomaszA, good for you. Please be on your way peacefully and be happy with what you like. We have no problem. Your matter is with the Lord, your Creator.

In an Islamic state governed by Shairah we both know what my fate would be. We’re both fortunate to be living in a country where one can freely live according to the faith they choose. I am glad that you are one of those who truly believes there is no compulsion in religion and I look forward to chatting with you on this forum.

TomaszA, Yes, it is correct. Islam does not admit any son for God. Any man as God. Any animal as worthy of worship. Only God is divine.

My point was to say that there are contradictions between the message Muhammad preached and what Jews and Christians believe. I have no problem believing Jesus is the Son of God because that is a revealed truth, of course, the generation of the Son is not like the generation of human children (I think this is where Muslims get it wrong.) The generation of the Son is much the same as the intellect generates a word. In certain Islamic schools of thought the Quran is considered uncreated and eternal because the Speech of Allah is uncreated and eternal. In this sense we view Jesus the same way, the difference being God’s Word took on the form of a human being and not a book.

Islam does not admit that Jesus had died on the cross. He only appeared as if dead.

 

[cathopologist]

**R_Not, I tell you that you are a kafir. And your Jesus was the greatest cheater and liar. He tried to be the king of the Jews. But when he was caught, he changed his wordings and said that his kingdom was not of this world. See his cleverness?

I may have to discuss the doubtful (manner) birth of your Jesus again on this forum with more emphasis soon.
**

planten, may i remind you that you are in a Catholic forum and you have just ridiculed Our Lord and called Him a liar.

Here is the difference:
Mohammad = mortal man to Muslims
Jesus Christ = God to Catholics

On the other hand, you have just blatantly demonstrated how Muslims truly ‘respect’ their prophet, Jesus.

May Our Lord and Saviour have mercy on your soul.

 

[Psalter]

**
That is not the problem! The problem is that they follow a prophet who was a looter, a mass murderer, a marauding gangster, a pedophile, an assasin, a lustful womanizer, a liar, an enslaver, and what not**
Yes, Mohammad WAS all of those things…it is a historic fact, your own Hadith says it. Jesus is totally innocent of all of the things you claim; He is, in fact, GOD, King of the universe, not of the Jews only. Planten you are going to HELL and will be accountable to HIM on the Last Day for your blasphemies and worshiping a false demon-led “prophet” (Mohammad).

---

That Day Of Wrath, that dreadful day,
When heaven and earth shall pass away,
Both David and the Sibyl say.

What terror then shall us befall,
When lo, the Judge’s steps appall,
About to sift the deeds of all.

The mighty trumpet’s marvellous tone
Shall pierce through each sepulchral stone
And summon all before the throne.

Now Death and Nature in amaze
Behold the Lord His creatures raise,
To meet the Judge’s awful gaze.

The books are opened, that the dead
May have their doom from waht is read,
The record of our conscience dread.

The Lord of judgment sits Him down,
And every secret thing makes known;
No crime escapes His vengeful frown.

Oh, on that day, that tearful day,
When man to judgment wakes from clay,
Be thou the trembling sinner’s stay,
And spare him, God, we humbly pray.
Yea, grant to all, O Saviour Blest,
Who die in Thee, the Saints’ sweet rest.***

 

[R_not]

Yes, Mohammad WAS all of those things…it is a historic fact, your own Hadith says it. Jesus is totally innocent of all of the things you claim; He is, in fact, GOD, King of the universe, not of the Jews only. Planten you are going to HELL and will be accountable to HIM on the Last Day for your blasphemies and worshiping a false demon-led “prophet” (Mohammad).

Actually, none of us can say who is going to hades and who is not. The muslims do that all the time - but they set themselves as judges, juries and executioners. They just follow what that guy, mohammed, did all the time. We are not and we are supposed to let God do the judging.

I know it is hard not to judge others - I do it all the time. But, when it comes to who is going here or there when they die - let God judge him. Who knows - he might repent at that last minute before he gasps his last breath. I just feel sorry for him, and the other muslims, who live with such a chaotic, violent religion with no reason or logic to it and if they question the obvious problems with it that they are not muslims anymore. Well, maybe that is a good thing to not be a muslim anymore - but no matter how often they say that fatwas or the death penalty does not follow apostacy - they are once again, being deceitful about that.

Basically, this is why mohammed was not a prophet - he changed the rules to suit himself as far as claiming to be a prophet, and as to what allah was.

Too many apostates live with guards or have to live in secrecy even in our own country because they could be killed. The most notable one is Ayan Hirsi Ali, some others are Walid Shoebat, Nonie Darwish, etc.

 

[coleraine]

The message Muhammad brought is problematic for many reasons. It rejects the Divine Sonship of Jesus, rejects that He was Crucified, introduces several other innovative ideas and then claims to be a final revelation that requires our faith.

We can unify on the fact that we are both monotheistic and share several moral values.

lol. i totally get that, i dont really like islam a whole lot, but i dont hate muslims. and get this: i was going to stay by that statement completely, but then i get attacked for trying to ask a simple question. go figure.

 

[planten]

planten, may i remind you that you are in a Catholic forum and you have just ridiculed Our Lord and called Him a liar.

Here is the difference:
Mohammad = mortal man to Muslims
Jesus Christ = God to Catholics

On the other hand, you have just blatantly demonstrated how Muslims truly ‘respect’ their prophet, Jesus.

May Our Lord and Saviour have mercy on your soul.

**Jesus Christ = God to Catholics.

I do not believe that at all. But let it be so for you. Therefore you should be more careful about slandering the highly reverred personages of other religions. You should go to your slanderers and not come to me for anything… Perhaps you think that this is a catholics website and Catholics are allowed to abuse the prophets. But Muslism are not allowed to say any bad word about Jesus.

If that is the case then please let me know. I will change my stretigy (my method). The best and the easiest thing was to control your misbehaing Catholics. I cannot also imagine any Catholics who are mad abusers (who abuse others).

What those abusers are doing is un-christian like. I do not believe that they are Catholics or christians of any denomination. They are foul people.

I know there is a desire in your heart that teh Catholics may abuse any one as much as they like but no one should say a bad word about Jesus.

**

 

[cathopologist]

**Jesus Christ = God to Catholics.

I do not believe that at all. But let it be so for you. **

**
**It is part of our tenet of beliefs. **
**

Therefore you should be more careful about slandering the highly reverred personages of other religions. You should go to your slanderers and not come to me for anything…

**
Challenging the tenets of other religions is not slandering. Questioning the validity of Islamic claims is not slandering. Although i will admit some of us (including myself) do sometimes become less charitable, especially when Our Lord is attacked.
**

Perhaps you think that this is a catholics website and Catholics are allowed to abuse the prophets. But Muslism are not allowed to say any bad word about Jesus.

**
I do not think this is a Catholic website. It is a Catholic website. Christians do not abuse prophets. We just do not recognize Mohammad as a prophet. Jesus is considered a ‘prophet’, to Muslims, therefore you have blasphemed. That is undeniable.
**

If that is the case then please let me know. I will change my stretigy (my method). The best and the easiest thing was to control your misbehaing Catholics. I cannot also imagine any Catholics who are mad abusers (who abuse others).

**
I have no control over who is less charitable, just as Muslims claim terrorists are not their responsibility. However, i have seen worse in Muslim forums. There are Muslims who claim unabashedly they are anti-Christians and even have anti-Christian slogans and images in their signatures. However, i do pray my Catholic brothers and sisters can be more charitable. It is better being charitable than spew hatred.
**

What those abusers are doing is un-christian like. I do not believe that they are Catholics or christians of any denomination. They are foul people.

**
Sad, but true.
**

I know there is a desire in your heart that teh Catholics may abuse any one as much as they like but no one should say a bad word about Jesus.

You just made an assumption about me and the true intentions of Christians worldwide. planten, if you must know, i have a sister-in-law who was a former Muslim. When she married my brother, she was asked by my mother to convert to Brahminism. I stood up for her rights to be a practicing Muslim. In the end, she converted, not because she was forced to, but she knew Brahminism was not polytheistic and recognized the certain truths in it.

My parents hated the idea of my conversion to Catholicism. It was my sister-in-law who praised me for seeking the truth. And she said this when she was still a Muslim.

Don’t judge a person’s heart and assume you know what people think.

 

[dolphinlove]

Originally **Posted by planten ** View Post
R_Not, I tell you that you are a kafir.

**Posted byplanten ** R_Not, I never called you kafir before. I never called any one a kafir. But this title is only for you because you had abused the prophet and youhad been abusing Islam too for a long time.

I can think of a song title, its called contradiction.

 

[planten]

Yes, Mohammad WAS all of those things…it is a historic fact, your own Hadith says it. Jesus is totally innocent of all of the things you claim; He is, in fact, GOD, King of the universe, not of the Jews only. Planten you are going to HELL and will be accountable to HIM on the Last Day for your blasphemies and worshiping a false demon-led “prophet” (Mohammad).

All the above titles apply to your pseudo-lord Jesus.

 

[Angelos]

Guys, you should stop using those harsh statements for Mohammad since such an act provokes Muslims and bitters the tone of the posts.

We should criticise Islamic tenets and scripture rather than focusing on Mohammad’s character. This might help some Muslims see the truth and come to salvation in Christ.

 

[R_not]

Guys, you should stop using those harsh statements for Mohammad since such an act provokes Muslims and bitters the tone of the posts.

We should criticise Islamic tenets and scripture rather than focusing on Mohammad’s character. This might help some Muslims see the truth and come to salvation in Christ.

islam IS mohammed’s character. That is the problem with islam.

What is the koran’s, or mohammed’s, message? It is nothing other than - mohammed saying ‘I am the prophet and allah is the god - do whatever I tell you to do no matter what it is’. And as mohammed’s days passed, allah became whatever mohammed wanted it to be. allah didn’t even know its own Universe. allah couldn’t remember day to day, or week to week. And mohammed had to redefine sin so he could keep up his breaking most of the 10 Commandments. And not to presume that the pagans have, or know, the 10 commandments - the religions and peoples of mohammed’s time were living in relative peace with each other until mohammed thought up islam.

planten is going to say whatever he says only because he has nothing else.

I have asked for proof that their assertion that the Bible was corrupted by sources other than the koran and hadiths. Silence. Instead, he goes off on some story that Jesus was married - which isn’t even in their koran, let alone the Bible. or goes off on some grave someone found, etc. If anyone posts their own texts - they get offended. THEIR OWN TEXTS!

Basically, they want us to just accept whatever they garbage they tell us. They cannot answer to their own texts which IS their tenets.

 

[pismopal]

Salaam/peace

Holy Spirit is an angel . No angel or human being has power to guide anyone . Guidance come from God Almighty.

Nicolas : you Christianity/Christan bashing poster !!

huh…Christians are bashing our beloved Prophet day & night . We can’t bash Jesus (p) because he is our beloved Prophet , too. And you are calling me Christianity basher ? Then what’s the tag for those Christians who use nasty words all the time ?

coleraine , we are waiting to know --so what did happen in the that 11-minute period between post #4 and #5?

There you go again …defining Christianity for us lowly Christians. Allow us to define our own religion…you have enough to do explaining yours…thanks.

 

[Valke2]

before, i dont want to be to critical of islam. i want to debate it, because i dont like it, and it hink it encourages violence “int he name of allah”. we can see this in various verses in the quaran, and in the fact that islam itself means submission, not peace. i just dont want to be hatefull about it. so, i dont like islam, but i dont hate muslims.

Very few posts on this thread and others seem to be geared twoard open debate. It is obvious that many posters here at best pay lip service to the faith of others and then get down to the business of attacking those beliefs that do not mesh with theirs.

Everyone has the choice of using their time here to further discussion or to shout down their opposition. As I said, we pay lip service to the former and focus on the latter.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

There you go again …defining Christianity for us lowly Christians. Allow us to define our own religion…you have enough to do explaining yours…thanks.

what’s ur point ? Did not read the whole thread …can u tell me if she answered to this question : coleraine , we are waiting to know --so what did happen in the that 11-minute period between post # 4 and # 5?