Islam

[Angelos]

** angelos, you have been discussing wrong things with R_not You have accused me of telling lies. You have accused Islam of permitting lies. You are absolutely wrong. In fact in your desperation you have resorted to accusations.

Why should I tell any lie?. Can you give me any one example where I told any lie. Try and tell. It is necessary otherwise you will be a proven liar. Welcome.**

Here is a list including SOME of your lies:

1. Christians believe that Jesus is a god.
2. Christians have a big problem to solve because of their faith in Mary’s virginity and Jesus’ miraculous conception.
3. Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.
4. The comforter is Mohammad.
5. The Bible is not authentic because it is a man-made book.

I hope these are enough for the moment

I want you to know that I do not hate you no matter how blindly you slander my faith. I always pray for you.

 

[brownjt]

The majority of victims of islamic terrorism are Muslims - peaceful and faithful - shia and suni - look at iraq and Algeria. The islamists are like our christian identity movement - hateful, murdering, and inbreds - they kill because they have been abused and led astray. Nohting to do with religion - it is their way of striking back - but making a negative impact on the world’s impressions. Close to 500,000 muslims have died as a result of this - be careful where u are going with this. I THOUGHT this was a discussion between like-minded faithful people of all religions

Come on lets rock guys - let’s hear some love and unity around here!

 

[brownjt]

First - give me an idea of your background - muslim, catholic, or none of the above? Does not the scared tradition of the church teach that a catholic cannot marry a NON catholic? I am told by educated Muslims that was intended to maintain the faith that women will “choose” the religion of their husband…Oh really, they must have little faith in their women’s faith. I do not. I cannot and will not forced her conversion.

 

[R_not]

The majority of victims of islamic terrorism are Muslims - peaceful and faithful - shia and suni - look at iraq and Algeria. The islamists are like our christian identity movement - hateful, murdering, and inbreds - they kill because they have been abused and led astray. Nohting to do with religion - it is their way of striking back - but making a negative impact on the world’s impressions. Close to 500,000 muslims have died as a result of this - be careful where u are going with this. I THOUGHT this was a discussion between like-minded faithful people of all religions

Come on lets rock guys - let’s hear some love and unity around here!

Well, we can’t really say that the majority of a jihadist’s victims are muslims themselves since they are carrying on a slaughter of Christians in Africa, and have done so elsewhere not only heavily in the 20th century, but also for the past 1400 years.

They also kill Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, etc - any non-muslim which we don’t have a total count for. Basically, we see in countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan that they are the ones who have killed in the hundreds of thousands their own and blame it on us because that is what muslims have done all over - claim victimhood after starting the violence. We see that in China this year when they were the ones hiding jihadists among them, we see in in lebanon and the Gaza - they lob bombs daily and way too often aim at children’s locations - and then they whine and cry they are the victims when the Israelis strike back after allowing the bombing to go on for weeks/months.

We see that the muslims also have been training children as young as 6-8 years old in the violent jihad. We have videos of a 12 year old beheading a man and the children learn how to do that plus shoot weapons, or just don explosives to blow others up.

This is a part of islam. It is called jihad. It is a covering something vile with an aura of holiness.

Centrality of jihad in islam

 

[brownjt]

While I do not agree with all of the tenets of their faith, when are they going to take back their religion from these madmen! Again, this is a feeling that prevails in Algeria and Iraq. Yes, the concept of victimhood seems to be out there - maybe because they cannot control this. The islamic movement the violent aspect is dangerous and is on the move - they intimidate their own - the dictatorships in the middle east know this and take advantage of the ‘arab street’ - wake up moderate muslims!

 

[brownjt]

Why would you question my wife’s devotion to what she believes, brother? She was raised to be tolerant and free-thinking (not westernized) - actually amazing in that part of that part of the world. I believe she is an exception but should be an example. She and I co-exist very well. If the major denominations were confident of their flocks why should they care? The christian faith of the faithful is very strong. Unfortunately or fortunately, the protestants treat her religion like it is heretical, but the catholic church does not. Pope John Paul was loved by alot of muslims I know.

 

[planten]

Why would you question my wife’s devotion to what she believes, brother? She was raised to be tolerant and free-thinking (not westernized) - actually amazing in that part of that part of the world. I believe she is an exception but should be an example. She and I co-exist very well. If the major denominations were confident of their flocks why should they care? The christian faith of the faithful is very strong. Unfortunately or fortunately, the protestants treat her religion like it is heretical, but the catholic church does not. Pope John Paul was loved by alot of muslims I know.

** brownjt, Th christian faith is very weak in the matters of law and guidance. The book (bible NT) is quiet on many matters. It does not specifically guide the followers in the matters of marriage or divorce or eating… or salvation or Compulsion. Nothing is there in bible.

But Quran is specific. It says “There is no Compulsion in religion” Verse 2:255.
Quran says that any one who is a peaceful Jew or christian or person of any other faith who believes in Allah and the accounatability of the last day, that person will have nothing to fear (about the future) and he/she will not be sorry for anything of past. Verse 2:62.

That is a clear statement that Peaceful persons of any faith can live happily within Islamic environment. They need not convert.

The present day progress and beauty of the western world is because they have distanced themselves from Christianity and they have adopted good laws by consultation/ legislation. The sceintists and lawyers did not tke / utilise anything from the bible NT.
But bible Nt is also useful.**

 

[planten]

My above post will also prove that Muslims will progress only when they will get rid of the ignorant bigheads who have a narrow minded understanding of the Quran and Sunnah.

 

[R_not]

** brownjt, Th christian faith is very weak in the matters of law and guidance. The book (bible NT) is quiet on many matters. It does not specifically guide the followers in the matters of marriage or divorce or eating… or salvation or Compulsion. Nothing is there in bible.

But Quran is specific. It says “There is no Compulsion in religion” Verse 2:255.
Quran says that any one who is a peaceful Jew or christian or person of any other faith who believes in Allah and the accounatability of the last day, that person will have nothing to fear (about the future) and he/she will not be sorry for anything of past. Verse 2:62.

That is a clear statement that Peaceful persons of any faith can live happily within Islamic environment. They need not convert.

The present day progress and beauty of the western world is because they have distanced themselves from Christianity and they have adopted good laws by consultation/ legislation. The sceintists and lawyers did not tke / utilise anything from the bible NT.
But bible Nt is also useful.**

No compulsion in religion - that is a bunch of bunk! We hear about girls being kidnapped and forced to convert and then marry, we know that muslims are in fear and practice Christianity in fear of death for apostacy. And you quote the abrogated verse, as usual.

It does indeed say in the koran to kill apostates from islam. When a muslim says that it does not then that muslim doesn’t even know their own ‘religion’. OR!! They are in major deception mode!

047.025
YUSUFALI: Those who turn back as apostates after Guidance was clearly shown to them,- the Evil One has instigated them and busied them up with false hopes.
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who turn back after the guidance hath been manifested unto them, Satan hath seduced them, and He giveth them the rein.
SHAKIR: Surely (as for) those who return on their backs after that guidance has become manifest to them, the Shaitan has made it a light matter to them; and He gives them respite.

So, since allah (mohammed’s alter ego) didn’t like that the peaceful ones didn’t like the killing and stealing part of islam.

004.089
YUSUFALI: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
PICKTHAL: They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
SHAKIR: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

And then allah, mohammed’s alter ego, just couldn’t let it go so he continues to go after the apostates!

047.027
YUSUFALI: But how (will it be) when the angels take their souls at death, and smite their faces and their backs?
PICKTHAL: Then how (will it be with them) when the angels gather them, smiting their faces and their backs!
SHAKIR: But how will it be when the angels cause them to die smiting their backs.

047.028
YUSUFALI: This because they followed that which called forth the Wrath of Allah, and they hated Allah’s good pleasure; so He made their deeds of no effect.
PICKTHAL: That will be because they followed that which angereth Allah, and hated that which pleaseth Him. Therefor He hath made their actions vain.
SHAKIR: That is because they follow what is displeasing to Allah and are averse to His pleasure, therefore He has made null their deeds.

047.032
YUSUFALI: Those who reject Allah, hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, and resist the Messenger, after Guidance has been clearly shown to them, will not injure Allah in the least, but He will make their deeds of no effect.
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and oppose the messenger after the guidance hath been manifested unto them, they hurt Allah not a jot, and He will make their actions fruitless.
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah’s way and oppose the Messenger after that guidance has become clear to them cannot harm Allah in any way, and He will make null their deeds.

Oh, it goes on and on how mohammed wants anyone who doesn’t kill, or at least approve of it (we see that in the silence of ‘moderates’, the deception of what islam teaches, the things we have found in their mosques (the hate materials), and the lack of riots over the killings but they are not quiet about cartoons!, etc) to suffer.

It even goes on to show us that even the jihadists are expendable.

---

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

While I do not agree with all of the tenets of their faith, when are they going to take back their religion from these madmen! Again, this is a feeling that prevails in Algeria and Iraq. Yes, the concept of victimhood seems to be out there - maybe because they cannot control this. The islamic movement the violent aspect is dangerous and is on the move - they intimidate their own - the dictatorships in the middle east know this and take advantage of the ‘arab street’ - wake up moderate muslims!

I’ve been saying for years that what the Muslim world desperately needs is a Gideon.

If you remember in Judges, Gideon destroyed his father’s altar to Baal and Asherah pole to build an altar to God, then sacrificed two prize bulls on it. When the locals found out about it, they were going to kill Gideon for destroying Baal’s altar. But Gideon’s father Joash asked, “Are you going to plead Baal’s cause? Are you trying to save him? Whoever fights for him shall be put to death by morning! If Baal really is a god, he can defend himself when someone breaks down his altar.”

I think of this whenever I reflect on riots over cartoons. If Mohammad is Allah’s chosen prophet, he has received and is still receiving his reward and nothing men on earth do can revoke that. As for Allah, if he is omnipotent and omniscient, he can fight for his own cause. Anyone who would cause violence or wage war on behalf of someone that needs no defense is a blight. Period.

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

As for what radical Islam reminds me of, I’d argue for communism before Nazism.

In the case of communism, children as young as four would be taken from home and indoctrinated into the “right” ways and trained as soldiers for war. They would have no second thought about waging wars of aggression to prove how wonderful communism is to everyone else. Communism doctrine was their religion and they would grow as fanatics to fight against the “impure” and “unholy” that dared to believe in a different economic system. Brutal acts against those that didn’t believe in communism were both accepted and perpetrated by those in power, and those that were lukewarm on communism were regarded as the worst form of heathen fit only for forced labor and death.

 

[Allnamesused]

My above post will also prove that Muslims will progress only when they will get rid of the ignorant bigheads who have a narrow minded understanding of the Quran and Sunnah.

And sadly, it’s the lack of progress (nay the actual regression) of Muslims that causes the attitudes of non-muslims to remain so negative towards your faith. My opinion is that it is the narrow minded understanding of the Quran and Sunnah that many of the members of your own faith have that has caused most of the negative attitudes that the non-Islamic world has towards Islam. Of course, it doesn’t help that if you model your life after humanities “greatest example”: Muhammed, yours will be a life of violence and warfare.

 

[R_not]

As for what radical Islam reminds me of, I’d argue for communism before Nazism.

In the case of communism, children as young as four would be taken from home and indoctrinated into the “right” ways and trained as soldiers for war. They would have no second thought about waging wars of aggression to prove how wonderful communism is to everyone else. Communism doctrine was their religion and they would grow as fanatics to fight against the “impure” and “unholy” that dared to believe in a different economic system. Brutal acts against those that didn’t believe in communism were both accepted and perpetrated by those in power, and those that were lukewarm on communism were regarded as the worst form of heathen fit only for forced labor and death.

You are probably correct. Although communism, nazism and islam are fascists regimes (the either you are with us or you are against us theme). It is easier to find the Mein Kampf and compare that to the koran. In communism, I am not too clear what book outlines its idiology that applies to Russia, China, Cuba, our left in the West, etc.

When you compare what the different regimes did/do - the muslims will always claim that they are not part of that, or that is ‘radical’ islam, or the koran doesn’t teach that, or some such nonsense. they will start writing all the abrogated surahs to prove their point which is lame if anyone knows about abrogation in the koran. It is nonsense since the koran sanctions deception as to what islam is all about by its adherents, jihad is central to islam with with da’wa (basically deception and spreading islam), and their goal is to establish sharia law in all lands (not necessarily to convert us but to at least subjugate us).

If you know what document outlines communist tenets like Mein Kampf and the koran/hadiths - if there is one - please let me know.

 

[planten]

And sadly, it’s the lack of progress (nay the actual regression) of Muslims that causes the attitudes of non-muslims to remain so negative towards your faith. My opinion is that it is the narrow minded understanding of the Quran and Sunnah that many of the members of your own faith have that has caused most of the negative attitudes that the non-Islamic world has towards Islam. Of course, it doesn’t help that if you model your life after humanities “greatest example”: Muhammed, yours will be a life of violence and warfare.

** The above seems to be correct except the last lines are not understood. Thanks.**

 

[Nickkname]

I am catholic, and i would like to say something.

there is a thread on here that would lead you to believe that islam is evil, that it is the ant-christ, and the religion of satan. i told the poster that he was being hateful, and he told me that i have “made peace with the devil”. muslims are not satan worshipers. there are radical muslims, however, who have taken the lives of many. they are evil. but those who worship in peace are not.

They worship God, yes, but they are also allowed to lie to non-Muslims. It’s called “holy hypocrisy”. It’s why so many Catholics don’t exactly trust Muslims. (Dosen’t mean Catholics don’t love them)

 

[Angelos]

**

But Quran is specific. It says “There is no Compulsion in religion” Verse 2:255.
Quran says that any one who is a peaceful Jew or christian or person of any other faith who believes in Allah and the accounatability of the last day, that person will have nothing to fear (about the future) and he/she will not be sorry for anything of past. Verse 2:62.

That is a clear statement that Peaceful persons of any faith can live happily within Islamic environment. They need not convert.

**

Dear planten is adding new lies to his posts. There IS compulsion in Islam since 2:256 was ABROGATED with 9:5 and 29! If one contends that there was no abrogation for verse 2:256, one must also conclude that the Koran has contradictory statements about the notion of compulsion or tolerance.

Besides, 2:62 does not say that those non-Muslims will be exempt from the Islamic invasions and the payment of jizyah for humiliation. According to 9:29, which belongs to a later date than the whole Surah 2, ALL non-Muslims that do not turn to Islam must be fought and defeated for humiliation.

Dear planten’s new Koran version probably lacks Surah 9!

 

[planten]

Dear planten is adding new lies to his posts. There IS compulsion in Islam since 2:256 was ABROGATED with 9:5 and 29! If one contends that there was no abrogation for verse 2:256, one must also conclude that the Koran has contradictory statements about the notion of compulsion or tolerance.

Besides, 2:62 does not say that those non-Muslims will be exempt from the Islamic invasions and the payment of jizyah for humiliation. According to 9:29, which belongs to a later date than the whole Surah 2, ALL non-Muslims that do not turn to Islam must be fought and defeated for humiliation.

Dear planten’s new Koran version probably lacks Surah 9!

**1. angelos, you have been told that no verse of the Quran is abrogated. But it is possible that the Quran may have abrogated some of your faulty love verses of the bible.
2. The verse 9:5 had been explained to you that it was during war when makkah was liberated. The Makkans had persecuted and attacked the muslims for about 18 years mercilessly, Those pagans were allowed to go away within four months from the city. That was a lenient view. They had been liable to be killed for their war efforts.

Do not just read 9:5. Read the 9:6, 7, 8 too.

1. The case of 9:29 is same. That was about the false people of the book who never followed their books and they were the allies of the pagans. You see, shame on the people of the books becoming allies of the pagans. Then they deserved the same punishment as for the pagans. Why are you complaining?

The verse 2:62 allows people of all faiths to live happily, peacefully amongst the Muslims and they lived like that for many years.

But you do not have any law or any good verse in the bible to show that your religion is a peaceful religion and it allows the people of other faith any kind of peace… Have you any such verse in bible? Surely not. **

 

[SimonArizona]

**

But you do not have any law or any good verse in the bible to show that your religion is a peaceful religion and it allows the people of other faith any kind of peace… Have you any such verse in bible? Surely not. **

Salaam

**“Do no evil, and evil will not overtake you; avoid wickedness, and it will turn aside from you.”-Sirach 7:1

“Be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.”-Romans 12:21

Rom 12:18 "If it be possible, as much as you can, live peaceably with all men**. "

 

[Nickkname]

Dear planten is adding new lies to his posts. There IS compulsion in Islam since 2:256 was ABROGATED with 9:5 and 29! If one contends that there was no abrogation for verse 2:256, one must also conclude that the Koran has contradictory statements about the notion of compulsion or tolerance.

Besides, 2:62 does not say that those non-Muslims will be exempt from the Islamic invasions and the payment of jizyah for humiliation. According to 9:29, which belongs to a later date than the whole Surah 2, ALL non-Muslims that do not turn to Islam must be fought and defeated for humiliation.

Dear planten’s new Koran version probably lacks Surah 9!

If Planten is lying, why do you even bother responding to him? He is obviously enjoying trolling this website. Just ignore him.

BTW, Planten isn’t even a Muslim. He’s a heretic.

 

[planten]

They worship God, yes, but they are also allowed to lie to non-Muslims. It’s called “holy hypocrisy”. It’s why so many Catholics don’t exactly trust Muslims. (Dosen’t mean Catholics don’t love them)

** Nickname, actually, in Islam there is absolutely no permission to tell a lie even before a tyrant king. But i would feel that muslims should try to use some kind of deciet in dealing with the christians as their religion is absolutely nil. It is not any religion at all. It has no base. It is standing on sand. Everything is a supposition, a myth. Nothing is real.

In such circumstances, it would be appropriate for any one to steer clear of the catholics. Already some one has accused me of lying. When I asked for reference / proof, that person is dumb and quiet. So you can see who is lying. It is some one who is a christain but says he is not Catholic (angelos).**