Israel Launches Operation Pillar of Defense against Gaza

[Chrish1975]

Why was there silence when it was Jewish babies in danger and having rockets fired on their homes, but now the Vatican is calling Israel “babykillers” for what’s happening in Gaza? Sounds anti-Semitic/anti-Jewish to me.

I’m going through RCIA with my teenage son, and this is an embarrassment to me as I have many Jewish friends.

Help me understand,
oneseeker2

As far as I know the Catholic Church has always been for peace whenever war breaks out. Make sure you are not confusing a conservative Catholic group or web sites statement with the Vatican. I have never seen or heard of the Vatican calling people babykillers,

catholicsentinel.org/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=34&ArticleID=19922

 

[BroomWagon]

Who said this? See this is why I think we are suppose to have a story to go along with posts here. There is nothing to substantiate this. Sorry to the OP, pure hearsay and possibly worse. This thread won’t last anyway I don’t think. No way did the Vatican say this furthermore.

 

[oneseeker2]

israelandstuff.com/the-vatican-israel-is-baby-killer

This is the article that quotes Cardinal Ravasi, the President of the Vatican Council for Culture, William Shomali, the vicar general of the Latin Patriache in Jerusalem, and Michel Sabbah, Patriarch Emeritus of Jerusalem. Ravasi compared Israelis defending themselves against yet another attack from Gaza to Herod and the killing of children under his reign. Therefore, he resurrected the old medieval blood libel comparing the man who wanted to kill Jesus with Jews. The old “Christ-killers” theme again.

Is that enough substantiation for my post not to be dismissed by people who refuse to do their research? Believe me, I was heartsick when I read this. It’s not something I want to believe about the Church I am planning to be received into.

oneseeker2

 

[The_Scott]

israelandstuff.com/the-vatican-israel-is-baby-killer

This is the article that quotes Cardinal Ravasi, the President of the Vatican Council for Culture, William Shomali, the vicar general of the Latin Patriache in Jerusalem, and Michel Sabbah, Patriarch Emeritus of Jerusalem. Ravasi compared Israelis defending themselves against yet another attack from Gaza to Herod and the killing of children under his reign. Therefore, he resurrected the old medieval blood libel comparing the man who wanted to kill Jesus with Jews. The old “Christ-killers” theme again.

Is that enough substantiation for my post not to be dismissed by people who refuse to do their research? Believe me, I was heartsick when I read this. It’s not something I want to believe about the Church I am planning to be received into.

oneseeker2

Innocent children ARE being murdered on both sides. Do you not deny there is a massacre of innocents?

I don’t see where anyone is accusing Israel directly. From the quote it appears neither Israel or Palestine is mentioned.

I would like to see the full transcript. Also, several leaders’ sayings does not constitute the Vatican’s official position.

 

[BroomWagon]

israelandstuff.com/the-vatican-israel-is-baby-killer

This is the article that quotes Cardinal Ravasi, the President of the Vatican Council for Culture, William Shomali, the vicar general of the Latin Patriache in Jerusalem, and Michel Sabbah, Patriarch Emeritus of Jerusalem. Ravasi compared Israelis defending themselves against yet another attack from Gaza to Herod and the killing of children under his reign. Therefore, he resurrected the old medieval blood libel comparing the man who wanted to kill Jesus with Jews. The old “Christ-killers” theme again.

Is that enough substantiation for my post not to be dismissed by people who refuse to do their research? Believe me, I was heartsick when I read this. It’s not something I want to believe about the Church I am planning to be received into.

oneseeker2

Okay, I did a news search of Cardinal Ravasi and found a story on this from a more ordinary source. But I don’t know if I will link it from Arutz Sheva, Israel National News.

That’s all. I don’t want to cause waves. It looks like a real news story.

I do NOT agree with what he said.

 

[The_Scott]

Also, I cannot find the original source for any speech except on extreme websites who have an obvious agenda (jihadwatch, for example).

 

[BroomWagon]

Okay, the author of the story is Giullio Meotti in both articles I found, it is the same article at Arutz Sheva 7 as well, sounds like a TV station maybe.

 

[oneseeker2]

“The Catholic Church high official equated Israel’s operation in Gaza against terror groups with the New Testament story of Herod’s slaughter of Jewish babies in his effort to kill Jesus.”

He specifically speaks of the Gazan mothers weeping, therefore he is saying these things against Israel. However, he said nothing when the shoe was on the other foot. The_Scott, does that answer your confusion regarding who he is speaking against?

As far as the old “certain leaders’ teachings not being representative of the Vatican position” line, I haven’t heard the Vatican or Pope Benedict come out saying they’re wrong. These words were spoken when the Pope was introducing his new book about Jesus, so he’s aware of them.

oneseeker2

 

[TEPO]

From the article:
"Ravasi, who is one of the most popular Catholic cardinals and the director of the Church’s policy on culture, called Israelis baby-killers in ashamelessform of anti-Semitism which subtly accuses the Jewish State of trying to murder the new Jesus,symbolized bythe Palestinian people."**…

…who is the “New Jesus”? I don’t get it.

 

[The_Scott]

“The Catholic Church high official equated Israel’s operation in Gaza against terror groups with the New Testament story of Herod’s slaughter of Jewish babies in his effort to kill Jesus.”

He specifically speaks of the Gazan mothers weeping, therefore he is saying these things against Israel. However, he said nothing when the shoe was on the other foot. The_Scott, does that answer your confusion regarding who he is speaking against?

No that does not. What you quoted is the author of the article’s commentary. The direct quotes from the Cardinal in the article does not say, one way or another, who he is referring to. It could be Israel, it could be Palestine, it could be both. But he is accurate, because there ARE children dying.

As far as the old “certain leaders’ teachings not being representative of the Vatican position” line, I haven’t heard the Vatican or Pope Benedict come out saying they’re wrong. These words were spoken when the Pope was introducing his new book about Jesus, so he’s aware of them.

oneseeker2

Several possible reasons:

1. the quote is actually neutral and does not accuse Israel of “baby killing” (which is not what the Cardinal said). I believe this is the most likely.
2. the Pope will address it on Sunday or Fr. Lombardi will comment the next day.
3. the quote doesn’t actually exist.

Also, the Cardinal is not the official spokesman of the Vatican State. The Vatican does not need to approve or reject every single statement made by every single Cardinal, Bishop, or Priest.

 

[Dale_M]

Israel’s battle damage report says Hamas crippled

srael targeted 1,500 sites, the military said in its detailed summary of the conflict, and the “command and control apparatus of Hamas was significantly struck”.

Targets included “19 senior command centres, operational control centres and Hamas’ senior-rank headquarters, 30 senior operatives, hundreds of underground rocket launchers, 140 smuggling tunnels, 66 terror tunnels, dozens of Hamas operation rooms and bases, 26 weapon manufacturing and storage facilities and dozens of long-range rocket launchers and launch sites”.

“These actions have severely impaired Hamas’s launching capabilities, resulting in a decreasing number of rockets being fired from the Gaza Strip,” the army said. Israel captured Gaza in the 1967 Middle East war and withdrew unilaterally in 2005.

reuters.com/article/2012/11/21/palestianans-israel-gaza-scoresheet-idUSL5E8MLM9O20121121

 

[Dale_M]

Here is a reporter’s perspective from inside Gaza

Al Jazeera’s Nadim Baba reporting from Gaza City this morning said that as Gaza and Israel enter their first day full day of a ceasefire it will be a day of clearing up.

He said that in Gaza, Hamas had declared it a day of victory, given that they have achieved some easing of the blockade.

They have given all public servants the day off, he said.

Baba, however, said that for many people it would be a day of mourning as well, with 162 Palestinians killed of which seven were children, over the last eight days of Israeli attacks on Gaza.

He said that as most people could not venture out of their homes during the Israeli missile fire on Gaza, people coming out onto the streets now would be curious to see what the place looks like now, after the missile damage to buildings in Gaza, which is densely populated.

Baba said that this would also be a time for people to reflect.

Hamas has also said that they will give the ceasefire 24 hours.

Israel is also calling the ceasefire a victory siting the rockets that they were able to intersect.

Baba said for many in Gaza and Israeli, this would be viewed as a time of relief.

blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/topic/gaza-136

According to Al Jazeera’s live blog, Israeli drones continue to fly over Gaza.

 

[Nigel7]

“I think of the ‘massacre of the innocents’. Children are dying in Gaza, their mothers’ shouts is a perennial cry, a universal cry”.

“what is happening in Gaza now is a vicious circle of violence… it’s difficult to know who started it”

Where then does he specifically call Israel “baby killers”? I read the article (twice) and can’t find that quote.
The author puts “baby killers” in quotes in the sensationalized headline, but nowhere in the article does the cardinal (or Vatican) say it. It’s not there.

 

[oneseeker2]

From the article:
"Ravasi, who is one of the most popular Catholic cardinals and the director of the Church’s policy on culture, called Israelis baby-killers in ashamelessform of anti-Semitism which subtly accuses the Jewish State of trying to murder the new Jesus,symbolized bythe Palestinian people."**…

…who is the “New Jesus”? I don’t get it.

The quote specifically states that the new Jesus is “symbolized by the Palestinian people.” Not that hard to understand since it is spelled out directly.

oneseeker2

 

[Dale_M]

Okay, the author of the story is Giullio Meotti in both articles I found,.

Yes, and a quick Google search shows some of his previous essays. He seems to be a bomb-thrower, making outrageous claims for the sake of stirring controversy, e.g. he referred to Italy as “the land of Islam.”

In Italy, he writes for Il Foglio, a small circulation daily newspaper which is printed on a couple pages.

I wouldn’t take anything Meotti claims as accurately reflecting what the cardinal said. Like others here, I want to see the full text of the cardinal’s remarks. I strongly suspect Meotti is misrepresenting Cardinal Ravasi’s words.

 

[gatorayd]

The Vatican did not say “Israel is a baby-killer”. There is no source. I believe that the case actually is that the author has a massive issue with the Catholic Church, which is clearly evident in the massive bias present in this article.

I honestly would not trust a word out of this guy’s mouth, nor give it any weight. Though I doubt it would, but if the “quote” ever were to come up, tell your friends that there was no such thing said and the author made it up.

 

[Chrish1975]

The quote specifically states that the new Jesus is “symbolized by the Palestinian people.” Not that hard to understand since it is spelled out directly.

oneseeker2

The Cardinal did not call anyone babykillers that was the web site creators words. Please don’t jump at every statement on the Internet as being the truth without verifying it first.

 

[Wampa]

I agree with most of what the posters have already pointed out about this “news article”.

It is full of quotes that are quite possibly taken out of context in order to make the author’s bomb-throwing point. OP, it’s odd that you accuse others of “refusing to do their research”, yet you believe a biased article that has an agenda, yet does not contain any sourcing at all. I just spent 30 minutes trying to find the source documentation for any of his quotes, so that I could determine whether or not the author presented the context correctly, and all I can get is what The_Scott said:

Also, I cannot find the original source for any speech except on extreme websites who have an obvious agenda (jihadwatch, for example).

The headline itself is false - it doesn’t even follow from the quotes given:
OP's article headline:

The Vatican: “Israel is Baby-Killer”.

Even if the line as quoted was said (“I think of the ‘massacre of the innocents’. Children are dying in Gaza, their mothers’ shouts is a perennial cry, a universal cry”), that does not equal = "Israel is Baby-Killer”. No legitimate journalist would ever put that in quotes from that comment. That quote was apparently never said. It requires a leap to make the conclusion that it means that, a leap which we are unable to make because your author did not bother to cite the source speech. My guess would be that’s because he’s taking it out of context, in order to further his obvious agenda.

Also, one cardinal speaking his opinion does not equal “The Vatican”. Once you’ve been around the Church for awhile, you will see this false attribution done all the time: many people with agendas will grab one statement from one cardinal and scream from the rooftops: “this is what the Vatican believes!!!”. Eventually you will learn that the author is usually trying to make a point (The Overall Church Believes X) which simply does not logically follow from the facts.

Slow down and wait for the necessary rest of the story to get filled in before you come to such momentous conclusions about the Church. Once we can see the full text of the Cardinal’s actual comments, then we can discuss what it means and if it’s anything to be concerned about on a larger scale. It’s not hard for me to predict that, once we see all of the data, the author’s agenda will be exposed for what it is.

 

[RPRPsych]

It looks like the Cardinal was just deploring the death of innocents - children who had nothing to do with the conflicts of their parents. No direct comparison with Herod was made.

The rest is just the author trying to bash the Catholic Church, which is a popular pastime among some journalists (because if they bash Muslims, they’d be on the receiving end of a bashing themselves ). Nothing here folks, let’s move on.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Why was there silence when it was Jewish babies in danger and having rockets fired on their homes, but now the Vatican is calling Israel “babykillers” for what’s happening in Gaza? Sounds anti-Semitic/anti-Jewish to me.

I’m going through RCIA with my teenage son, and this is an embarrassment to me as I have many Jewish friends.

Help me understand,
oneseeker2

You are aware that Palestinians are more Semitic than Israelis right?

I would like to point out that the Palestinians hate the Israelis because the Israelis quite literally stole the Palestinians’ land. Israel while claiming to want peace permits settlers to brutalise Palestinians while they watch (unless the Palestinians fight back).