"It's fun to shoot some people"- only counseling?

[shockerfan]

What I find disturbing about many of the posts here is the judgementalism. Our military has done a good thing: remove the Taliban and Saddam Hussein from power. They are still doing a good thing: making those countries safer so that at some point (hopefully soon) they can leave.

Now many of the people in these posts have never been in combat (myself included), however, many of these people are judging not only this soldier, but also many like him, without having any perspective. Every day, monday-morning quarterbacks are second guessing our soldiers actions, nit-picking every comment, and giving them no benefit of the doubt whatsoever. These people are putting their lives on the line for us, and they have earned some leeway.

Now I understand perfectly that the ends do not justify the means, and that there are rules to be followed in times of war, but I think that is for God to work out. This guy broke none of Ceasar’s laws, and should not be punished by Ceasar. As far as breaking God’s laws, that is for God to decide.

 

[La_Chiara]

condan:

Its nothing compared to what happens “up top” if she is so ignorant as to actually breastfeed as well. When will these backwards women stop falling for the ruse of being barefoot and pregnant!

 

[condan]

shockerfan:

What I find disturbing about many of the posts here is the judgementalism. Our military has done a good thing: remove the Taliban and Saddam Hussein from power. They are still doing a good thing: making those countries safer so that at some point (hopefully soon) they can leave.

Now many of the people in these posts have never been in combat (myself included), however, many of these people are judging not only this soldier, but also many like him, without having any perspective. Every day, monday-morning quarterbacks are second guessing our soldiers actions, nit-picking every comment, and giving them no benefit of the doubt whatsoever. These people are putting their lives on the line for us, and they have earned some leeway.

Now I understand perfectly that the ends do not justify the means, and that there are rules to be followed in times of war, but I think that is for God to work out. This guy broke none of Ceasar’s laws, and should not be punished by Ceasar. As far as breaking God’s laws, that is for God to decide.

My only concern with this general is that he has the right firepower. He is a soldier and sounds like a darned good one. It is men like him who have fought for over 225 years to keep this country safe and free.

He’s the guy I want out there standing between me, my family and Islamofacist terrorists who want nothing more than to destroy our way of life.

 

[HagiaSophia]

condan:

He’s the guy I want out there standing between me, my family and Islamofacist terrorists who want nothing more than to destroy our way of life.

Says Dennis Prager:

“…Aside from reliance on feelings, how else can one explain a person who believes, let alone proudly announces on a bumper sticker, that “War is not the answer”? I know of no comparable conservative bumper sticker that is so demonstrably false and morally ignorant. Almost every great evil has been solved by war – from slavery in America to the Holocaust in Europe. Auschwitz was liberated by soldiers making war, not by pacifists who would have allowed the Nazis to murder every Jew in Europe…”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=41708

 

[Matt25]

condan:

He’s the guy I want out there standing between me, my family and Islamofacist terrorists who want nothing more than to destroy our way of life.

A soldier one day becomes a civillian. Do you want a guy who thinks it ‘fun’ to kill bad guys driving behind you with an assault rifle? Do you want him to express disapproval of your kids music choices with a handgun?

If someone kills in war they carry that with them through life. The number of ex-services personnel who are homeless or have mental health/substance abuse problems is horrendous. Thats partly because people cheer them as heroes when they are in uniform and leave them to rot when they are out of it.

How do you re-sensitize someone who has been de-sensitized? Or do you just not care about ex-soldiers?

 

[Matt25]

HagiaSophia:

Says Dennis Prager:

“…Aside from reliance on feelings, how else can one explain a person who believes, let alone proudly announces on a bumper sticker, that “War is not the answer”? I know of no comparable conservative bumper sticker that is so demonstrably false and morally ignorant. Almost every great evil has been solved by war – from slavery in America to the Holocaust in Europe. Auschwitz was liberated by soldiers making war, not by pacifists who would have allowed the Nazis to murder every Jew in Europe…”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=41708

If war solved great evils why not wage a war to end all wars? Oh wait, that was 1914-1918.

If war stopped genocide what happened in Rwanda? Maybe Black Africans dont count in your estimate.

Slavery in the UK was not finished by war. Just because something happens in the US does not make it universal history. Besides I thought the war was about States Rights, slavery was just a trigger issue.

Auzschwitz was liberated by Red Army soldiers so logically you could argue that Stalinism was the solution to genocide. It would be as untrue as saying that war is.

Pope Benedict XV who lived through WWI said catholic-forum.com/saints/pope0258d.htm

1. Our Lord Jesus Christ came down from Heaven for the very purpose of restoring amongst men the Kingdom of Peace, which the envy of the devil had destroyed, and it was His will that it should rest on no other foundation than that of brotherly love. These are His own oft-repeated words: "A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another (John 14:34); “This is my commandment that you love one another” (John 15:12); “These things I command you, that you love one another” (John 15:17); as though His one office and purpose was to bring men to mutual love. He used every kind of argument to bring about that effect. He bids us all look up to Heaven: “For one is your Father who is in Heaven” (Matt. 23:9); He teaches all men, without distinction of nationality or of language, or of ideas, to pray in the words: “Our Father, who are in Heaven” (Matt. 6:9); nay, more, He tells us that our Heavenly Father in distributing the blessings of nature makes no distinction of our deserts: “Who maketh His sun to rise upon the good and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust” (Matt. 5:45). He bids us be brothers one to another, and calls us His brethren: “All you are brethren” (Matt. 23:8); “that He might be the first-born amongst many brethren” (Rom. 7:29). In order the more to stimulate us to brotherly love, even towards those whom our natural pride despises, it is His will that we should recognize the dignity of His own very self in the meanest of men: “As long as you did it to one of these My least brethren, you did it to Me” (Matt. 15:40}. At the close of His life did He not most earnestly beg of His Father, that as many as should believe in Him should all be one in the bond of charity? “As thou, Father, in Me, and I in Thee” (John 22:21). And finally, as He was hanging from the cross, He poured out His blood over us all, whence being as it were compacted and fitly joined together in one body, we should love one another, with a love like that which one member bears to another in the same body.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Matt25:

A soldier one day becomes a civillian. Do you want a guy who thinks it ‘fun’ to kill bad guys driving behind you with an assault rifle? Do you want him to express disapproval of your kids music choices with a handgun?

If someone kills in war they carry that with them through life. The number of ex-services personnel who are homeless or have mental health/substance abuse problems is horrendous. Thats partly because people cheer them as heroes when they are in uniform and leave them to rot when they are out of it.

How do you re-sensitize someone who has been de-sensitized? Or do you just not care about ex-soldiers?

And you know this from personal experience? I do.

 

[condan]

Matt25:

A soldier one day becomes a civillian. Do you want a guy who thinks it ‘fun’ to kill bad guys driving behind you with an assault rifle? Do you want him to express disapproval of your kids music choices with a handgun?

If someone kills in war they carry that with them through life. The number of ex-services personnel who are homeless or have mental health/substance abuse problems is horrendous. Thats partly because people cheer them as heroes when they are in uniform and leave them to rot when they are out of it.

How do you re-sensitize someone who has been de-sensitized? Or do you just not care about ex-soldiers?

Fantasyland.

The many soldiers I am related to or know through my children’s school, my community activities and through my church don’t show their disapproval with firearms. They are trained professionals who are very proud of their contributions to our society. My sister’s father-in-law fought on Iwo Jima and he’s never once used an assault rifle. He’s been an active member of his parish, though. How do you, in your little fantasyland, explain that one?

As HS pointed out, it was soldiers who liberated the Jews from the concentration camps. It was soldiers that kept the Germans out of London. It was soldiers who through the British back across the great pond so that we could govern ourselves. I will always be indebted to the men who have the courage to go out and do rather than sit home and fantasize from the safety of their PC.

 

[Matt25]

condan:

Fantasyland.

The many soldiers I am related to or know through my children’s school, my community activities and through my church don’t show their disapproval with firearms. They are trained professionals who are very proud of their contributions to our society.

This thread is not about many soldiers or most soldiers. Its about those who think it fun to kill bad guys. Soldiers who think killing is fun become civillians who think killing is fun. Soldiers who are responsible and caring become civillians who are responsible and caring. Why are you so scandalised at that notion?

As HS pointed out, it was soldiers who liberated the Jews from the concentration camps. It was soldiers that kept the Germans out of London. It was soldiers who through the British back across the great pond so that we could govern ourselves. I will always be indebted to the men who have the courage to go out and do rather than sit home and fantasize from the safety of their PC.

It was soldiers who imprisoned Jews in the Concentration camps. It was soldiers, actually pilots, who threatened London, while the USA was neutral by the way. Do you think that the only people who go out and do are soldiers? I am a registered nurse if you break a leg do you want to be cared for by a soldier or a nurse?

By the way as a nurse I would care for friend and foe alike with equal professionalism. Would you think that I should take pleasure in letting ‘bad guys’ die? Is that the kind of morality that appeals to you.

I know that the opinions of the Catholic Church are of little interest to people here but when the Pope said that “war is always a defeat for humanity” it does not suggest that war is the best way of solving disputes. Soldiers however good they are as human beings cannot disguise the fact that their profession is at best a necessary evil, the consequence of human sin. And remember both sides in a war have soldiers.

 

[Matt25]

condan:

He is a soldier and sounds like a darned good one. It is men like him who have fought for over 225 years to keep this country safe and free.

Does that include the Confederate Army?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Matt25:

Does that include the Confederate Army?

No offense to my southern brothes and sisters (I am a Yankee by birth), but apparently they weren’t up to the task.

 

[dumspirospero]

IT is more like the women getting the abortions are the terrorists and the unborn babies are the innocent people that were in the twin towers on 9-11…that is a realistic analogy

condan:

Unborn infants are the same as terrorists?

An odd interpretation.

 

[Norwich]

Scott_Lafrance:

And you know this from personal experience? I do.

Actually yes. I seems that everyone has forgotten what this man actually said, so:

“Actually it’s quite fun to fight them, you know. It’s a hell of a hoot,” Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It’s fun to shoot some people. I’ll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

“You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn’t wear a veil,” Mattis said. “You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.”

Seems a fairly weak excuse to use in front of God when you have toexplain yourself.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I meant, have you personally experienced the horror of combat. I have, dumspiropero has. We can comment on what it is like to demonize the enemy, because we’ve had to. Unless you know first hand what it is like to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, knowing that if you don’t, he will, then you are only in a position to react to his comments on a purely theoretical and speculative position. I have bled with Marines. I have put blown up Marines back together. I have belly-crawled through mud, feces, body parts, vomit and every other form of nastiness, all in the name of serving my country. I can speak from experience. I wanted to know if anyone else could. If not, your opinion is just that. I would like to hear from someone who has been through hell and back, at least I’ll know that they understand the situation.

Norwich:

Actually yes. I seems that everyone has forgotten what this man actually said, so:

“Actually it’s quite fun to fight them, you know. It’s a hell of a hoot,” Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It’s fun to shoot some people. I’ll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

“You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn’t wear a veil,” Mattis said. “You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.”

Seems a fairly weak excuse to use in front of God when you have toexplain yourself.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Norwich:

Seems a fairly weak excuse to use in front of God when you have toexplain yourself.

Not a person of your word I see - didn’t you announce that you were “leaving” a few days ago?

 

[condan]

Scott_Lafrance:

I meant, have you personally experienced the horror of combat. I have, dumspiropero has. We can comment on what it is like to demonize the enemy, because we’ve had to. Unless you know first hand what it is like to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, knowing that if you don’t, he will, then you are only in a position to react to his comments on a purely theoretical and speculative position. I have bled with Marines. I have put blown up Marines back together. I have belly-crawled through mud, feces, body parts, vomit and every other form of nastiness, all in the name of serving my country. I can speak from experience. I wanted to know if anyone else could. If not, your opinion is just that. I would like to hear from someone who has been through hell and back, at least I’ll know that they understand the situation.

Sincere thanks. My kids, my husband and I really appreciate it. If it means anything, we began teaching our sons to respect our military personnel long before it became fashionable. My husband frequently will walk up to senior gentlemen wearing the ballcaps identifying their ship or combat unit and thank them personally. If it wasn’t for them (and men like you), who knows where our country would be.

 

[dumspirospero]

Or another analogy I can think of:

Ladies who have abortions=Little Eichmans…That is who Churchill should have directed his comments.

dumspirospero:

IT is more like the women getting the abortions are the terrorists and the unborn babies are the innocent people that were in the twin towers on 9-11…that is a realistic analogy

 

[bapcathluth]

I know plenty of men who have fought in wars and they have never said that it was “fun” to kill. Maybe this guy is just trying to be super macho and made a mistake with his words.

But if he really believes that it is fun to kill–even an enemy–than he is one sick son of ******.

I appreciate those men and women who are putting their lives on the line for the USA. That doesn’t mean I have to admire some perverse guy who gives the good ones a bad name.

He was probably the type who liked to kill cats and hang them off fences which I have seen many times where I live. Some people do get a great deal of joy from killing. It is sick and sad.

Jesus would never have prescribed this kind of attitude and I am shocked that people on such a super, duper Catholic forum are defending his words.

 

[TheGarg]

bapcathluth:

I know plenty of men who have fought in wars and they have never said that it was “fun” to kill. Maybe this guy is just trying to be super macho and made a mistake with his words.

But if he really believes that it is fun to kill–even an enemy–than he is one sick son of ******.

I appreciate those men and women who are putting their lives on the line for the USA. That doesn’t mean I have to admire some perverse guy who gives the good ones a bad name.

He was probably the type who liked to kill cats and hang them off fences which I have seen many times where I live. Some people do get a great deal of joy from killing. It is sick and sad.

Jesus would never have prescribed this kind of attitude and I am shocked that people on such a super, duper Catholic forum are defending his words.

I think that people with Religious Identity Disorder and who badmouth an honorable fighting man in the US Marine Corps is one sick son of a ******.

By the way, I love to shoot cats, too many of the nasty lil’ bas***ds around anyway. Heck, they just rats that meow.

I hope your shocked by this super, duper Catholic.

all this goes for matt25 and norwich too…just because they disagree…

Scott_Lafrance and dumspirospero, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you did for your country, I’ll always appreciate it.

 

[RedCrossKnight]

katherine2:

An abortionist probably takes pride in his work. And this general is on the same moral plane as an abortionist.

I sure some one else caught this but I will clarify to make sure.

You are wrong, An Abortionist kills innocent life. I have never heard of a baby slapping around women because they didn’t wear a head covering.

Marines are trained to kill the enemies of the USA. Currently the enemies of the USA are terrorists who do very bad things and won’t listen to reason. Therefore the USA must eliminate the terrorist who pose a immanent threat to the security of the entire world.

Hope this helps clarify things a little.