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gilliam
Guest
Killing the enemy in a time of war who is trying to kill you is not murder. Not all killing is murder you know.
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Deaths consequential to armed conflict between combatants do not qualify as murder.
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Scottyp
Guest
Murder: to slaughter wantonly–Merriam-Webster
That is the whole debate–I think his fun intentions may make the act wanton, thus defining it as murder.
Feel free to disagree
That is the whole debate–I think his fun intentions may make the act wanton, thus defining it as murder.
Feel free to disagree
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mommy
Guest
I don’t really think that until I have lived what he has that I can properly form an opinion. It’s really easy for me to sit here at home with my family all around me, all cushy and safe to say he was ‘wrong’ or he was ‘right’.
But I do think that if you do and see what these people have day after day that yes you do get desensitised to it all. I’m sure if we heard Doctors or funeral directors speak bluntly of the dead like they were objects that we’d be horrified. But when you deal with death after day, I bet you do become a little numb to it, you probably have to or you’d go crazy yourself.
I am also a bit upset that we (and I mean a collective we, citizens, media, etc) are so quick to harshly judge our miliatary when they are dealing with the evils that people have done - and we can’t even fathom what they’ve been through, but we are right there to judge them when they are not PC.
But I do think that if you do and see what these people have day after day that yes you do get desensitised to it all. I’m sure if we heard Doctors or funeral directors speak bluntly of the dead like they were objects that we’d be horrified. But when you deal with death after day, I bet you do become a little numb to it, you probably have to or you’d go crazy yourself.
I am also a bit upset that we (and I mean a collective we, citizens, media, etc) are so quick to harshly judge our miliatary when they are dealing with the evils that people have done - and we can’t even fathom what they’ve been through, but we are right there to judge them when they are not PC.
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Scottyp
Guest
Heck, I’ll go a step further. My last post was merely speculative…so let’s just say you think I’m self righteous because I don’t think taking of human life should be fun.
That sound right?
That sound right?
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
I don’t agree that one should derive a sense of amusement from taking the life of another. But, then again, have you ever been through the horror of armed conflict to understand the coping mechanisms necessary to do it?
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Meggie
Guest
Thank you mommy. You have said very eloquently what I have tried to say. The horrors of war cannot be immagined by us on the outside. And the horror of war plus domestic violece is almost too horible to speak of.
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Scottyp
Guest
There are certain moral absolutes in the world. I’m not saying killing may not be justified, but I don’t think I need to shoot someone to understand the morality and gravity of taking human life.
By the way…this is the same logic abortion proponents often use–(you can’t judge the morality of abortion because you’ve never been in the woman’s shoes)
By the way…this is the same logic abortion proponents often use–(you can’t judge the morality of abortion because you’ve never been in the woman’s shoes)
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gilliam
Guest
I am not sure where you are getting that definition. You must have the abridged, abridged then abridged version of Webster. Here is what is online:
Main Entry: 1mur·der [m-w.com/images/audio.gif](javascript
opWin(’/cgi-bin/audio.pl?murder01.wav=murder’))Pronunciation: 'm&r-d&r
Function: noun
Etymology: partly from Middle English *murther, *from Old English *morthor; *partly from Middle English *murdre, *from Old French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English *morthor; *akin to Old High German *mord *murder, Latin *mort-, mors *death, *mori *to die, *mortuus *dead, Greek *brotos *mortal
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2 a : something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder> b : something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder>
m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=murder
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
I sure can judge the morality of abortion. Abortion has been defined as intrinsically evil. There is no circumstance that makes an abortion morally licit, ever. I don’t need to have one to know whether it is okay to have one or not. I can’t judge the mental condition of someone who procures one, because I am a guy, but I can unequivocably say that it is immoral regardless. However, killing during armed conflict is not intrinsically evil.
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Scottyp
Guest
Scott, you’re not listening…I never said it was instrinsically evil. I said the gravity of taking human life disqualifies it morally from being “fun”.
Oh, and on the on line Merriam-Webster, it’s under murder as a verb–not a noun.
Oh, and on the on line Merriam-Webster, it’s under murder as a verb–not a noun.
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gilliam
Guest
But we are speaking of murder as a noun, not a verb. In other words the act of murder.
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Scottyp
Guest
I’m not. I’m talking about the acts he performed.
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Elaine_s_Cross
Guest
My baby brother is a Ranger (civil affairs) SFC that has been in & out of Afghanistan 5 times. He says he’s been shot at but has not yet made any kills. He is currently home on leave and has requested deployment to Iraq. He told me he wants to go there so he can get him a “raghead.”
I told him to count his lucky stars he isn’t being deployed. I hope his motivation for deployment to Iraq isn’t so he can put notches on his gun. I couldn’t tell for sure because of the joking manner in which he said it.
I told him to count his lucky stars he isn’t being deployed. I hope his motivation for deployment to Iraq isn’t so he can put notches on his gun. I couldn’t tell for sure because of the joking manner in which he said it.
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katherine2
Guest
I would offer **tcay584’s stepson as an example of a real Marine. if you have issues with that, take it up with ** tcay584.
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katherine2
Guest
Well, that’s the first time I’ve been associated with the British Conservative Party.
I would stand with FDR, who was willing to lead this nation against the Nazis despite the right-wing isolationist pressure to stay out, but still stood up and said “I hate war”
To repeat myself, there is nothing wrong with spanking your children, unless you enjoy doing it. The same can be said for killing in war.
This general is a monster and a disgrace to our great nation.
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katherine2
Guest
That’s the first time I have been associated with the British Conservative Party.
I would stand instead with people like FDR, who, though he would say “I hate war”, nevertheless he was willing to stand up to the right wing isolationists and lead this nation against the Nazis.
As I said before, killing in war is like spanking your children – it is sometimes neccessary, but if you enjoy doing it, you have a problem.
This general is a disgrace to our great nation.
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katherine2
Guest
Unfortunately, the abortionist’s choice for Chief Executive won the election and has already rammed through one of their top legislative priorities. its a shame.
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Matt25
Guest
In this Lenten Reflection from 2001 the Holy Father said this
cin.org/pope/message-lent-2001.html
Some Christians think they are able to do without such a constant spiritual effort because they do not heed the urgency of confronting themselves with the truth of the Gospel. So as not to disturb their way of living, they attempt to empty and make innocuous words such as: “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you” (Lk 6:27). For these persons such words sound so difficult to accept and translate into a coherent conduct of life. In fact, they are words that, if taken seriously, demand a radical conversion. **Instead, when one is offended or hurt, one is tempted to give in to the psychological mechanisms of self-pity and revenge, ignoring the invitation of Jesus to love one’s enemy. **Nevertheless, daily human events clearly evidence how much forgiveness and reconciliation are undeniably needed for bringing about a real personal and social renewal. This is valid in interpersonal relations but also among communities as well as nations…
cin.org/pope/message-lent-2001.html
Some Christians think they are able to do without such a constant spiritual effort because they do not heed the urgency of confronting themselves with the truth of the Gospel. So as not to disturb their way of living, they attempt to empty and make innocuous words such as: “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you” (Lk 6:27). For these persons such words sound so difficult to accept and translate into a coherent conduct of life. In fact, they are words that, if taken seriously, demand a radical conversion. **Instead, when one is offended or hurt, one is tempted to give in to the psychological mechanisms of self-pity and revenge, ignoring the invitation of Jesus to love one’s enemy. **Nevertheless, daily human events clearly evidence how much forgiveness and reconciliation are undeniably needed for bringing about a real personal and social renewal. This is valid in interpersonal relations but also among communities as well as nations…
Code:
4.** The only way to peace is forgiveness.** To accept and give forgiveness makes possible a new quality of rapport between men, interrupting the spiral of hatred and revenge and breaks the chains of evil which bind the heart of rivals. For nations in search of reconciliation and for those hoping for peaceful coexistence among individuals and peoples, there is no other way than forgiveness received and offered. How rich are the beneficial teachings which resonate in the words of the Lord: “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust (*[Mt](http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=RSV&passage=Matthew+5:44-45)*[ 5: 44-45](http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=RSV&passage=Matthew+5:44-45))! **To love the one who offends you disarms the adversary and is able to transform a battlefield into a place of supportive co-operation. **
This is a challenge that concerns individuals but also communities, peoples and all humanity. It concerns families in a special way. It is not easy to convert one’s self to forgiveness and reconciliation. To reconcile can already seem problematic when at the origin there is self-guilt. If then the other is guilty, to reconcile one’s self can be seen even as an unreasonable humiliation. To take this path, it is necessary to experience interior conversion; the courage of humble obedience to the command of Jesus is necessary. His word leaves no doubt: not only the one who provokes the estranged, but also the one who suffers must find reconciliation (cf. *[Mt](http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=RSV&passage=Matthew+5:23-24)*[ 5:23-24](http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=RSV&passage=Matthew+5:23-24)). **The Christian must make peace even when feeling as the victim of one who has unjustly offended and struck. **The Lord himself acted in this manner. He waits for the disciple to follow him, co-operating in this way in the brotherly redemption.
In our times, forgiveness appears more and more as a necessary dimension for an authentic social renewal and for the strengthening of peace in the world. The Church, announcing forgiveness and love of enemies, is conscious to inspire in the spiritual patrimony of all humanity a new way of relating to each other; a somewhat difficult way but rich in hope. In this the Church knows to rely on the help of the Lord, who never abandons one who turns to him in difficulty.
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katherine2
Guest
Matt, you don’t understand. We are not supposed to take the Pope seriously when he talks about peace and justice. 
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