Jehovah's witnesses still dont have an accurate translation?

[po18guy]

There was no question in his post, just a dump of his opinions and complaints about JW’s… which he has provided many times in the past. Kinda like a heckler… and completely off topic for this thread.

Uh, Steve, this is a forum, not an interview. Most of us believe that you have absolute, unquestioning faith in the teachings of the Watchtower Society. You are trying to force this into a question and answer format. We are trying to lead you to salvation. Since the gates of hell “will not prevail against” the Church founded by Christ, what has lead you to believe that Watchtower was appointed by God to teach otherwise? There, a question.

 

[Hellisreal]

Not at all.

There are groups that are JW that are gathering together to analyze the accuracy of the biblical hebrew and greek.

They are having to do this for what reason?

You told me its the most accurate translation.

The odd thing is, JW’s never had a thing to do with the bible. They took a protestant bible and changed it. So, its nonJW literature that has been sanitized for JW’s.

I’m sorry you are still confused about the question you’ve posed in this thread. I’ve diligently tried to answer it for you several times.

But really, apply yourself just a little bit here and think… was the point of my answer to say the “WTS is admitting they had no part in the Bible?”

I think with just a little though and reasoning you will conclude that was not my point or intention.

Or are you just trying to be clever or sarcastic?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

So I looked at that link, and a couple of items from it:

1. Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth. He was God’s first creation, and so he is called the “firstborn” Son of God. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14)

I object to referring to our Lord as a “spirit person” and Jesus was not a creation, first or other wise. He is Gods Son not “called” the firstborn. As if there would be any others.

1. Jesus was a perfect human just like Adam. Unlike Adam, though, Jesus was perfectly obedient to God under even the greatest test. He could therefore sacrifice his perfect human life to pay for Adam’s sin. This is what the Bible refers to as the “ransom.” Adam’s children could thus be released from condemnation to death. All who put their faith in Jesus can have their sins forgiven and receive everlasting life.—1 Timothy 2:5, 6; John 3:16; Romans 5:18, 19.

Well, theres some truths in here, but they are mixed. Jesus is perfect thats true, but Hes NOT perfect “just like Adam” Adam was created, Jesus was not, He is the alpha and omega, the first and the last, the great I AM.

Jesus was perfectly obedient to God and I suppose it could be called a test, theres truths in that. The reason He is that way, because He honors God, who in turn honors Jesus. And yes faith in Jesus is good, as He said no one goes to the Father but through Me, as I and the Father are one.

1. Jesus died and was resurrected by God as a spirit creature, and he returned to heaven. (1 Peter 3:18) Since then, God has made him a King. Psalm 37:9-11; Proverbs 2:21, 22

Once again, I strongly object to my Lord being referred to as a “spirit creature” He is not a creature, He created so He cannot be a creature.

Not even sure about this King thats being referred to, yes Hes a King but Hes also everything more than that.

Im not liking the tone of these things.

Well, you asked me to read the links, I did. I have questions regarding these. I am actually disapointed to find this view, especially when you say that Jesus is the Son of God. The tone of these points does not support that view.

 

[Hellisreal]

You are apparently uninterested in what research is revealing about bias in common Bible translations. And you don’t want to look at any books or other resources.

Do you read Catholic books only? Ever read newspapers, or any other books?

I read Kingdom Ministry mags.

 

[BibleSteve]

Uh, Steve, this is a forum, not an interview. Most of us believe that you have absolute, unquestioning faith in the teachings of the Watchtower Society. You are trying to force this into a question and answer format. We are trying to lead you to salvation. Since the gates of hell “will not prevail against” the Church founded by Christ, what has lead you to believe that Watchtower was appointed by God to teach otherwise? There, a question.

Discussion Forums are most useful when there is discussion going on… heckling is not discussion.

My faith is first and foremost in what I’ve read for myself in the Bible. I’ve compared what I have learned with the various religions of the world and found that JW’s come most closely to what I believe is truth. My review of other religions revealed things I didn’t see in the Bible. It was only after this level of research that I decided to become one of JW’s.

I don’t hang on authority figures for me to decide what to believe. Do you believe things simply because your Church tells you to? I certainly hope you think things through and make your own decision.

All I can tell you about the WTS is that after I decided what I believed, I looked around and it was fairly obvious who’s fundamental beliefs were most in line with my understanding of Bible truth.

 

[Hellisreal]

Good for you steve!

And you can do what you want in this life as its a free country (I assume you live in the USA) and your right to follow any or no religion. I am sure no one put a gun to your head to chose the JW faith and you should go where you feel you are called.

But, you can not say that people here believe things because the church tells them to.

That is going over the line of civil disscussion. This is a catholic forum, and to insult catholics on it is not good form.

:tsktsk:

Your organization does not offer a forum such as this open to anyone to discuss anything.

You can take your insulting remarks elsewhere or start your own forum.

Discussion Forums are most useful when there is discussion going on… heckling is not discussion.

My faith is first and foremost in what I’ve read for myself in the Bible. I’ve compared what I have learned with the various religions of the world and found that JW’s come most closely to what I believe is truth. My review of other religions revealed things I didn’t see in the Bible. It was only after this level of research that I decided to become one of JW’s.

I don’t hang on authority figures for me to decide what to believe. Do you believe things simply because your Church tells you to? I certainly hope you think things through and make your own decision.

All I can tell you about the WTS is that after I decided what I believed, I looked around and it was fairly obvious who’s fundamental beliefs were most in line with my understanding of Bible truth.

 

[BibleSteve]

There are groups that are JW that are gathering together to analyze the accuracy of the biblical hebrew and greek. They are having to do this for what reason?

They don’t **have **to do this at all. Out of interest in ancient languages, they are choosing to study this topic.

You told me its the most accurate translation.

Yes, in my opinion it is. 7 Million JW’s would also agree. Other non-JW’s like Jason Debuhn also agree. Other scholars disagree

The odd thing is, JW’s never had a thing to do with the bible. They took a protestant bible and changed it. So, its nonJW literature that has been sanitized for JW’s.

I appreciate you opinion. The NWT was a translation from the orginal texts, not simply taking a Protestant Bible and changing it.

By, the way, which specific Protestant Translation are you referring to?

 

[Hellisreal]

They don’t **have **

to do this at all. Out of interest in ancient languages, they are choosing to study this topic.

BS, (bible steve) the article says they are doing it to check for accuracy.
Not an interest in ancient languages. So, does this mean you disagree with the article?

Yes, in my opinion it is. 7 Million JW’s would also agree. Other non-JW’s like Jason Debuhn also agree. Other scholars disagree

It wasn’t a catholic one, so you tell me.

 

[BibleSteve]

But, you can not say that people here believe things because the church tells them to…That is going over the line of civil disscussion. This is a catholic forum, and to insult catholics on it is not good form…

You can take your insulting remarks elsewhere or start your own forum.

I’m not insulting anyone…

The question was asked… “what has lead you to believe that Watchtower was appointed by God to teach…”

It is a very common criticsm for people to think JW’s only believe as they do because the WTS tells them what to believe.

To which I answered: “I don’t hang on authority figures for me to decide what to believe. Do you believe things simply because your Church tells you to? I certainly hope you think things through and make your own decision.

All I can tell you about the WTS is that after I decided what I believed, I looked around and it was fairly obvious who’s fundamental beliefs were most in line with my understanding of Bible truth.”

There is no insult there. It was a simple answer to a simple question.

 

[Hellisreal]

I’m not insulting anyone…

The question was asked… “what has lead you to believe that Watchtower was appointed by God to teach…”

It is a very common criticsm for people to think JW’s only believe as they do because the WTS tells them what to believe.

To which I answered: “I don’t hang on authority figures for me to decide what to believe. Do you believe things simply because your Church tells you to? I certainly hope you think things through and make your own decision.

All I can tell you about the WTS is that after I decided what I believed, I looked around and it was fairly obvious who’s fundamental beliefs were most in line with my understanding of Bible truth.”

There is no insult there. It was a simple answer to a simple question.

And if you dont believe that its wrong to celebrate a birthday and do it, you are disfellowshiped correct?

 

[BibleSteve]

So, does this mean you disagree with the article?

The article was whether the WTS “endorsed” activities, publications, websites, debates that weren’t being produced by the WTS.

It seems completely logical to me they wouldn’t “endorse” activities they aren’t involved in.

So, I agree with their point of view.

 

[BibleSteve]

And if you dont believe that its wrong to celebrate a birthday and do it, you are disfellowshiped correct?

Personally, I studied the history and background of Birthday Celebrations before I made my choice of religious affiliation. I made my decision and then reviewed the various religions.

JW’s seemed to have the right attitude about carefully eliminating Pagan practices.

If someone thinks birthday celebrations are so very important, they shouldn’t become one of JW’s.

This is like a non-issue to JW’s, and is usually only brought up by critics.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I appreciate you opinion. The NWT was a translation from the orginal texts, not simply taking a Protestant Bible and changing it.

By, the way, which specific Protestant Translation are you referring to?

The nwt was a translation from the original texts? Really how can that be? Where are these original texts from the apostles and from Moses, David and the rest so that I may see them as well?

When jw’s come to my door, their bibles that I have seen, have some of the same errors as the KJV bible favored by many protestants.

 

[BibleSteve]

The nwt was a translation from the original texts? Really how can that be? Where are these original texts from the apostles and from Moses, David and the rest so that I may see them as well?

When jw’s come to my door, their bibles that I have seen, have some of the same errors as the KJV bible favored by many protestants.

The Old Testament as found in the New World Translation is based on Codex Leningradensis B 19A as published in Rudolf Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica (7th, 8th, and 9th ed.), while the New Testament is based on Westcott and Hort’s The New Testament in the Original Greek. Also considered were texts by Bover, Merk, and Nestle. Newer editions make use of newer texts, such as Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (1967/1977) and Novum Testamentum Graece (1983), as well as newer lexicons and dictionaries such as Zorell’s Lexicon Hebraicum Veteris Testamenti (1984).

You can read more about this here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Translation

 

[Hellisreal]

The article explained that there is a group of JWs that are checking the accuracy of the biblical hewbrew and greek in the NWT

You said they had an interest in ancient languages.

I keep reminding you the article does not say that.

The trust of my interest here, is- could the NWT be innacurate? And, if so, where?

I smell a change of doctrine coming up soon.

Another flip flop they are preparing for I think. what they will say is they found out that all this time they were missing the correct translation of some word that will open the door to a doctrinal change.

The article was whether the WTS “endorsed” activities, publications, websites, debates that weren’t being produced by the WTS.

It seems completely logical to me they wouldn’t “endorse” activities they aren’t involved in.

So, I agree with their point of view.

 

[Hellisreal]

AH, the old pagan/christian practices one.

You really need to go to the library here at CAF.

Personally, I studied the history and background of Birthday Celebrations before I made my choice of religious affiliation. I made my decision and then reviewed the various religions.

JW’s seemed to have the right attitude about carefully eliminating Pagan practices.

If someone thinks birthday celebrations are so very important, they shouldn’t become one of JW’s.

This is like a non-issue to JW’s, and is usually only brought up by critics.

 

[Hellisreal]

I have heard all I need/want to on this topic.

To all who posted here, thank you.

 

[hosemonkey]

Hosemonkey,

This topic of this thread is an article in Kingdom Ministry regarding the topic of “endorsement”. Along the way, various analogies have been used to help others understand the word “endorse”.

If you’d like to contribute something productive to this conversation, please do.

Otherwise, it is well understood you dislike everything about JW’s, so we’ve got the point,…

I am glad that you get the point. The thrust of your argument seems to be to try and attach some ligitimacy to what is basically a home-grown American religious abberation that has twisted scripture to it’s own ends and have done violence to the true understanding of the very nature of Our Lord and Saviour. Add to that the stubborn refusal of JWs to shoulder the responsibility of the defense of the country that bestows upon then the right to practice their “religion.” Duplicity and dishonesty are the hallmarks of most cults and the Watchtower is no exception. You are hereby ignored.

 

[po18guy]

You are apparently uninterested in what research is revealing about bias in common Bible translations. And you don’t want to look at any books or other resources.

I wonder why God would allow his children to wallow in unfaithful translations for almost 2,000 years, since He is a loving God.

Do you read Catholic books only? Ever read newspapers, or any other books?

I do not participate in the media, since it is for profit and corrupt. I read that which assists me in living out the revealed truth of God. You believe that you do as well, but the Church I belong to is not mine, it’s God’s, founded by Christ on Peter, and maintained through obedience to God’s revealed truth. I am specifically leary of any teaching that claims to be a “new” or “continuing” revelation, as that is counter-biblical. Those faiths spawned in America are to be examined with great scrutiny for their true source.

 

[hosemonkey]

I wonder why God would allow his children to wallow in unfaithful translations for almost 2,000 years, since He is a loving God.

I do not participate in the media, since it is for profit and corrupt. I read that which assists me in living out the revealed truth of God. You believe that you do as well, but the Church I belong to is not mine, it’s God’s, founded by Christ on Peter, and maintained through obedience to God’s revealed truth. I am specifically leary of any teaching that claims to be a “new” or “continuing” revelation, as that is counter-biblical. Those faiths spawned in America are to be examined with great scrutiny for their true source.

Especially one that was founded by two shaky characters, one a drunk and the other a con-man.