Jesus’ burial site found - film claims

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reason said:
The world will be a much better place for all once mankind finally grows up and grows out of the need to believe in fairy tales dieties, and can then find a way to live based on respect for humankind itself.
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I think mankind needs to grow up and listen to their Heavenly Father instead of listening to the mirror.
 
RyanL said:
Without God, there is no reason to respect humankind.
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AMEN!

We’ve seen what happens when Atheism becomes the official religion of a society. Hundreds of millions die.

Look at Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. History makes this clear.
 
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have
not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
  • 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12****
If you can convince people that Jesus didn’t die on the cross, didn’t rise from the dead, then you can convince them that he was just another ordinary man and that they can be ready to accept the coming of the anti-christ who will pose as a false messiah.
 
mchale said:
The only thing that the DNA appears to have confirmed (according to the article) is that Jesus was not genetically related to the one known as Mariamene e Mara. Actually, if I read the article correctly, they were looking at Mitochondrial DNA which only proves that they did not share the same mother. They may well have shared the same father if all they looked at was Mitochondrial DNA.

Even if we set aside my fiath for the sake of the argument, there are serious questions I think that need to be answered before anyone gets even close to proclaiming this is the tomb that holds the biblical Jesus and his family.
  1. While it is certainly understandable that Jesus and members of his family might be buried in Jerusalem since, according to scripture, that is where Jesus was crucified and buried and where the early Church existed, it doesn’t explain how Joseph, a carpenter from Nazareth got there.
  2. Why would the inscriptions of the names include non-Hebrew or Aramaic spellings of the names? Why Maria as opposed to Miriam, etc.
  3. To prove that the Jesus in the tomb was married to the mary he was not related to, we would need to show that the Judah tomb contains the son of her. It would also be useful to show that Jesus was in fact the son of the first Mary.
  4. I think the statistical approach is wrong here. They are looking at the odds of that specific group of names to show up, but certain figures in the tomb, such Matthew never had a claimed genetic relationship with Jesus. I think a better approach would be to look at all the names of the followers of Jesus and determine what are the odds of any of the tombs having any combination of say 5 or 6 individuals of those names buried together.
  5. Since this tomb, if proven true, undermines the crucifixtion story, we would need to show how that crucifixtion story developed since it seems to be almost universal amongst the various early Christian Groups.
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Bill
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I enjoyed your post Bill because I agree we need to take faith out of this story and instead debunk it on the same scientific grounds that it bases its claims on. I don’t believe that the outcome of any further analysis of the science will prove to disprove Christianity. However, I don’t like it when we Christians automatically disregard something that says it has archeology, science and statistics behind it because sometimes we ourselves use these points as an entry into discussion with non-believers we hope to convert to believers. What I want to see are other very credible people of the same or better calibre as those who are making these claims look at the evidence and point out all the flaws in it. I really don’t understand the attitude that we have to ignore it right off the bat and call the science behind it shoddy when most of us do not have such a background to do so. I don’t see this as the same as the DVC which really had nothing behind it besides Dan Brown’s imagination. This site was discovered during a dig, it contains ancient items - it really exists, it’s not make believe. And the technology we have today was not in common use when it was first discovered so who cares that it’s not new news. Also, with regards to the fake Jame’s osuary, that came up through the antiquities market so it was open to tampering. These other items were discovered on a dig and preserved so what we see today is more than likely what was found when they discovered the tomb.
 
From the article …
James Tabor, chair of religious studies at the University of North Carolina and an expert featured extensively in The Lost Tomb, said the discovery of the tomb could even strengthen the belief of anyone who doubted that Jesus even existed.
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This has got to be one of the lamest attempts to pretend there is anything about this claim that Christians should be pleased with. Anyone who is able to doubt Christ’s existance isn’t going to believe the more important part of the story – that Jesus not only existed but was the Son of God who died for our sins, rose from the dead and ascended into heaven – and this claim, were it true, would disprove the essential part of the story anyway.
 
Nullasalus said:
James Cameron also did a film about Exodus, arguing how the events described therein actually occurred, and that God may have been using natural events to make the prophecies happen. So at least he’s not consistently biased.
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Same “archeologist” on that project, Simcha Jacobovici. He makes a lot of assumptions and runs with them to build other assumptions before proving the earlier thesis. I had about 15 hours of anthropology and archeology classes in college and even I can see the Exodus show and his series “Naked Archeologist”, while entertaining, are not legitimate archeology.

But it will fool some folks for sure.
 
It is interesting. If what I’m reading is true" THese caskets (0r whatever) were found 25 years ago. Has the Church come out with any official statements?
 
This is what I received this morning from Bill Donahue of Catholic Leauge:

February 26, 2007
JESUS’ TOMB DISCOVERY IS TITANIC FRAUD
“Titanic” director James Cameron and TV-director Simcha Jacobovici are claiming they have evidence of a Jerusalem tomb that allegedly houses the remains of Jesus and his family. Commenting on this is Catholic League president Bill Donohue:

“Not a Lenten season goes by without some author or TV program seeking to cast doubt on the divinity of Jesus and/or the Resurrection. Last April, NBC’s ‘Dateline’ featured the wholly discredited and downright laughable claims of Michael Baigent, and two years ago ABC treated us to a special that questioned every aspect of the Resurrection. Now we have the Cameron-Jacobovici thesis.

“Israeli archeologist Amos Kloner was in charge of the 1980 investigation of the tomb that Cameron-Jacobovici have seized on 27 years later to make their allegations. ‘The claim that the burial site has been found is not based on any proof, and is only an attempt to sell,’ Kloner says. He adds, ‘I refute all claims and efforts to waken a renewed interest in the findings. With all due respect, they are not archeologists.’ Indeed, Kloner has branded their claims ‘impossible’ and ‘nonsense.’ Moreover, he says there is ‘no likelihood’ that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb. ‘It makes a great story for a TV film,’ he concludes.

“Joe Zias, who spent a quarter-century as an archeologist at the Rockefeller University in Jerusalem, said that ‘Simcha has no credibility whatsoever.’ Zias isn’t shooting from the hip: Jacobovici’s credibility explodes when one considers that he still believes the 2002 tale about an ossuary with the inscription, ‘James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.’ On June 18, 2003, the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) condemned this claim as a modern forgery—this was the unanimous decision of a 15-member IAA committee. Agreeing with this decision were Harvard’s Frank Cross and Tel Aviv University professor Edward Greenstein.

“The Discovery Channel aired the 2002 hoax and now it’s back with the Titanic fraud. It’s time the Discovery Channel discovered ethics and stopped with the sensationalism.”
 
reason said:
The world will be a much better place for all once mankind finally grows up and grows out of the need to believe in fairy tales dieties, and can then find a way to live based on respect for humankind itself.
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Yes, like that wonderful Paradise of rationality called the USSR, like Pol Pot, like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.

Like that?

You’d figure after the horrors inflicted on the world by enlightenment atheism in the 20th century, they’d give up!.. well, most of them did, and became pomos, but some diehards insist on keeping that dead horse on life support!
 
Amos Kloner, the first archaeologist to examine the site, said the idea fails to hold up by archaeological standards but makes for profitable television.

“They just want to get money for it,” Kloner said.
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William Dever, an expert on near eastern archaeology and anthropology, who has worked with Israeli archeologists for five decades, said specialists have known about the ossuaries for years.
“The fact that it’s been ignored tells you something,” said Dever, professor emeritus at the University of Arizona. “It would be amusing if it didn’t mislead so many people.”
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cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/26/jesus.sburial.ap/index.html
 
StMarkEofE said:
Im not sure if this belongs on the “Secular News” section of the forum but I get the impression that the originator is secular in his religious views. Anyway this is a subject that not only the Orthodox, Catholics but conservative Protestants can get their hands around and debunk:

thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23386857-details/I’ve+found+the+coffin+of+Jesus%2C+says+film+director/article.do
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It would be my argument that IF Christ was not who He said He was would the Apostles have given their lives for a fraud? Of course not. Also, Pontius Pilate charged a guard, normally 8-10 men, to guard the tomb of Christ with their lives on the tip that His disciples would steal the body and comfirm the rising on the third day claim. The followers of Jesus were hardly a match for the praetorian guards so any attempt to steal Jesus’ body would have been met with a bloody end to the disciples.
 
Since this “find” would also invalidate all the French Mary Magdalene mythology (a la the DVC), it may have Christians and conspiracy nuts arguing against it together.
 
SteveG said:
This is not only not news (tomb was discovered in 1980), it is pretty obviously nonsense. Here are a couple of articles on the topic from the Jerusalem post and MSNBC. The second article in particular gives some of the history involved here and shows how unfounded the whole claim is.

New film claims Jesus buried in Talpiot

and

Raiders of the Lost Tomb

A few money quotes from the articles…

From Jerusalem post article:
*'But Bar-Ilan University Prof. Amos Kloner, the **Jerusalem District archeologist who officially oversaw the work at the tomb in 1980 ***and has published detailed findings on its contents, on Saturday night dismissed the claims. “It makes a great story for a TV film,” he told The Jerusalem Post. "But it’s impossible. It’s nonsense."

Kloner, who said he was interviewed for the new film but has not seen it, said the names found on the ossuaries were common, and the fact that such apparently resonant names had been found together was of no significance. He added that “Jesus son of Joseph” inscriptions had been found on several other ossuaries over the years."

"There is no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb," Kloner said. "They were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the 1st century CE."

From the MSNBC article***:***
**“Simcha has no credibility whatsoever,” says Joe Zias, who was the curator for anthropology and archeology at the Rockefeller Museum in Jerusalem from 1972 to 1997 and personally numbered the Talpiot ossuaries. "He’s pimping off the Bible … He got this guy Cameron, who made ‘Titanic’ or something like that—what does this guy know about archeology? I am an archeologist, but if I were to write a book about brain surgery, you would say, ‘Who is this guy?’ People want signs and wonders. Projects like these make a mockery of the archeological profession." Cameron’s reply: “I don’t profess to be an archeologist or a Biblical scholar. I’m a film producer. I found it compelling. I think we’re on firm ground to say that much.”

Hope these help.
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Considering that there is more than one Jesus in the NT, it is a teensy bit premature to identify a name-bearer called Jesus with the Well-Known Jesus everyone has heard of.​

Prostituting academic disciplines for base purposes like making money is unforgivable. ##
 
ten years ago the BBC tried to do a documentary on this, and archeologists blew it out of the water. The word that they translate Jesus may not even be the word for Jesus. Besides, the names used in the gospels like Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Simmon, and so on are very common. What is really funny is their claim that they compared DNA, when in fact there was no bones in the box that they claimmed belonged to Jesus.
 
No bones were found.
And Yeshua, Miriam, and Judah were like the names Debbie, Jennifer, Jason, etc of today. There were lots of people with those names.
 
No bones about it this wasn’t Jesus Christ’s tomb.😃
  1. No bones were found.
  2. It was in Jerusalem. He was from Galilee.
  3. the names on the tombs were as common as Smith, Jones and Johnson are today.
    Don’t worry. It’s just a gimick to make money.
 
It seems to me that worldly mankind wants to ‘debunk’ Christianity so they can further justify not repenting or turning from the sinful lives they love to lead. They want their ears tickled by teachings that suit their disbelief. The Da Vinci code debacle is a good example.

There’s an old addage: “Man will believe anything you tell him, as ling as it’s NOT in the Bible.”
 
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