Jesus Christ is our only 'mediator' as stated by St. Paul

[Jeeda555]

Yes do so… and alse read The Hiding Place by calvinist Corrie Ten Boom. This testimony is so awesome that I used to have it in different versions… now they all disapeared because people borrowed them Corries family hid Jews during the war and her family payed dearly for it.

Read it. Very very good book, I enjoyed it immensly. And did you know there was actually a sequal?! A girlfriend of mine told me about it; I forget the name now but I wanna say… Tramp For The Lord? Or Trumpet of the Somthing? I’m not sure, I could never find it, but I heard it’s quite a joy.

I read these books with a friend, whose conversion to Christianity came about partly because of the book “mere Christianity” by Lewis.

That’s actually how my husband came to the Lord.

Lewis was no Catholic by the way. He was Anglican

I stand corrected friend! I learn something new everyday.

 

[Jeeda555]

Dear Jeeda.
One more favourite. Not kidding. This and “There is a day” are my favourite ones of all time… whomever I share with, they love them instantly, I have even shared with atheists and muslims that loved these song at first instant

youtube.com/watch?v=__PQjgi32-4

God Bless you

\

Very nice! Who is the artist? She has a beautiful voice.

 

[GraceDK]

\

Very nice! Who is the artist? She has a beautiful voice.

Danielle Rose is her name.
She is a nun now as far as I know.
The first time I heard “God Is” I wept
She made a new cd called “Your Bride”. I sneak listened on youtube… the songs are incredibly beautiful.
I have read a few more of Corrie ten Booms books. One was called “In My Fathers House”… it was wonderful.
Its great how your husband came to believe. C.S Lewis is so cool. My friend felt passified… and he used to believe the socialist notion that religion is opium for the people
What church do you attend now?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I was speaking of Scripture Books in general. Protestants used differing excuses as to why they removed books from the Bible.

I think displaying the fact that it is not inspired is a fairly good “excuse”.

Also, “everything” about God’s Word is not in the Bible as shown by
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

The Apostles taught orally. They preached in person. The epistles were written as supplements to their oral teaching. They were NEVER meant to replace it.

26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jn17: 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Luke 9:13 But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people.
John 6:35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Jn14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The epistles are a supplement to THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST The apostles did teach orally, but everything they taught was about JESUS CHRIST and anything that they said other than what is written down is supurfluous and we don’t need it unto salvation. The CC promotes this oral tradition balony so as to usurp the authority that belongs to God and God alone.

Not every Scripture in the Bible is corroborated by another Scripture saying the exact same thing.

I beleive that every scripture can be verified by other scriptures

All Scripture is inspired and inerrant in regards to teaching faith and morals. No Scripture contradicts another when properly interpreted. Scientific facts and historical facts do not have to be accurate in order for Scripture to be inspired.

God doesn’t make mistakes Jn17: 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

God’s Word is filtered through human beings’ minds and they then write God’s Word down. Their own knowledge or lack of knowledge about science and history is sometimes shown in their writings.

So you are saying that God’s inspired word is not accurate because it has been filtered by man’s mind. Well that wouldn’t make it inspired at all. The corruption of man’s mind is filtered by God. That’s what makes His word inspired

Let’s take this verse in context:
Isaiah 8:19-20
And when they say to you, “Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter,” should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living? 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Seeking mediums and wizards in order to get these mediums’ and wizards’ to procure advice from the dead is what “they” say to do. Instead, Isaiah states that “they” should heed the law and the testimony of Isaiah’s vision and seek God instead.

This is a good point. Why do you think the bible is so adamant against talking (praying) to the dead. Could it be that Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

continued

 

[Richard_Kastner]

continued

This is their unenlightened view of death at their time in history. They did not know any better.

Really, so now God made a mistake about the state of the dead in His inspired word, but you have the straight poop. How about these
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.

Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise [and] praise thee? Selah.
In Acts2 Peter says 34For David is not ascended into the heavens. Why woul he say that? Well, the reason is that David is dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection.

Since you believe in Scripture only, and this feast is definitely not explained in Scripture except in Maccabees and is not explained at all in any of the books that you deem inspired, then how can these Jews including Jesus lawfully celebrate Hanukkah, as named in Scripture by its feast name only? They obviously did not believe in “Scripture alone” since a great feast was celebrated in a certain manner every year to commemorate 2 Maccabees rededication of the Temple.

The answer is quite simple. The last book of the old testament was written c. 5th century BC . Maccabees around 165 BC. This feast isn’t explained in the bible because it hadn’t happened yet. By the way Hanukkah or feast of lights is not a “great feast”. It was a minor feast to celebrate the keeping lit the lamp beyond what it should have. The major feasts surrounded the temple and the Levitical sacrifices.

The Apocrapha as you call it, are included in the original NT Canon of the Bible. The Catholics still use this Bible. Protestants took these books out for various reasons of their own. Why do they insist that the rest of their Bible is inspired when they did not trust the Catholics’ choice on the books they (Protestants) removed?

I think I’ve covered this. They were taken out because parts of them contradict the inspired word.

Perhaps the Book called the NT Bible is all a great hoax, and the Catholic Church made up the “whole” NT Bible. How would anyone now know the difference since it was only the Catholic Church who had the NT Bible in the first place 1700 years ago when they first decided on its canons?

I guess I shouldn’t be, but I am always astounded by the sheer arrogance of Catholics when they make statements like this. God gave His word to the world. The CC merely put the books together and even that had to be edited.

You misunderstand. He acknowledges their authority as God-given. He is telling them to do as they say because the are the lawful leaders with the same authority as Moses had when he was alive. Moses’ office was passed down throughout the ages. Jesus is warning them to not copy the Scribes’ and Pharisees’ personal actions because they are hypocrites. They do not practice what they preach!

Matthew 23:1-3
Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

You will notice Jesus is telling them to obseve that which they tellyou to observe. Why? because they sit in Moses seat. The things they are instructed to do here are the things instructed in the Law which was given to Moses. Nothing else they do need we be mindful of, because they are hypocrits.

Because the spirit is never in the grave. The body will rise out of the grave and meet and rejoin with the spirit.

Gen2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The word for breath here is neshama which also means spirit, so the breath of God is the animating force of man or his spirit. The two together make a soul. You cannot have a soul without both the breath of God and a body. At death the breath or spirit goes back to God who gave it Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. And the body goes into the grave to await the resurrection.

I have to take a break now see you when I get back, God willing.

 

[SHW]

I think displaying the fact that it is not inspired is a fairly good “excuse”.

Like I said, everyone has their own pet excuse, for throwing out these books.

The epistles are a supplement to THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST The apostles did teach orally, but everything they taught was about JESUS CHRIST and anything that they said other than what is written down is supurfluous and we don’t need it unto salvation. The CC promotes this oral tradition balony so as to usurp the authority that belongs to God and God alone.

Your opinion, not fact. Scripture does not say that everything was written down. The CC teaches the truth: Traditions of the Apostles must be kept, both oral and written.

Facts:
2 Thessalonians 2:15
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.

The Church hierarchy has the authority of Christ just as Moses had God’s authority. This is Scriptural as I have pointed out in a previous post. If a person refuses to listen to and obey the Church, then he is to be treated from now on as a heathen and a tax collector!

Matthew 18:17
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

If you hear the Church, you hear Christ; if you reject what the Church says, then you reject Him.

Luke 10:16
He who hears you (Church) hears Me, he who rejects you (Church) rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.

We are commanded to obey the Church hierarchy:
Hebrews 13:17
Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

What is the pillar (support) and ground (foundation) of the truth? Is it Scripture? No, it is the Church.

1 Timothy 3:15
but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I beleive that every scripture can be verified by other scriptures

Again, not Scriptural.

God doesn’t make mistakes Jn17: 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

No, God does not make mistakes. God also did not “dictate” His Word. Unimportant details do not concern God. What matters is His relationship with us and that we understand it. Superfluous details don’t matter.

So you are saying that God’s inspired word is not accurate because it has been filtered by man’s mind. Well that wouldn’t make it inspired at all. The corruption of man’s mind is filtered by God. That’s what makes His word inspired

Again, your opinion. Scripture tells us about God’s relationship with us. There are two different creation stories. They do not match exactly. This does not make Scripture false. If you want more details about this, let me know.

This is a good point. Why do you think the bible is so adamant against talking (praying) to the dead. Could it be that Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

We are supposed to seek knowledge only from God, not from the dead. This is the point. So, since Ecc 9:5 states that “neither have they any more reward,” why does Scripture state in Matthew 16:27 “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.” ?

 

[SHW]

Really, so now God made a mistake about the state of the dead in His inspired word, but you have the straight poop. How about these
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.

Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise [and] praise thee? Selah.
In Acts2 Peter says 34For David is not ascended into the heavens. Why woul he say that? Well, the reason is that David is dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection.

Peter is quoting Psalm 110:1. David’s body is in the grave. His body has not been resurrected nor ascended into heaven. Peter was explaining how David’s Psalm was prophesying Jesus Christ’s resurrection and ascension. This states nothing at all about David’s spirit.

The answer is quite simple. The last book of the old testament was written c. 5th century BC . Maccabees around 165 BC. This feast isn’t explained in the bible because it hadn’t happened yet. By the way Hanukkah or feast of lights is not a “great feast”. It was a minor feast to celebrate the keeping lit the lamp beyond what it should have. The major feasts surrounded the temple and the Levitical sacrifices.

So, you are admitting that “everything” important is not in the Bible? Excuse, me. So, it was a minor feast. This does not make my point moot. My point is very valid. Not everything pertaining to religion is written in Scripture as proven by Jesus Himself walking in the temple in Jerusalem on the Feast of the Dedication, which I think is very appropriate since He is the true temple. (Revelation 21:22)

I guess I shouldn’t be, but I am always astounded by the sheer arrogance of Catholics when they make statements like this. God gave His word to the world. The CC merely put the books together and even that had to be edited.

Not arrogance. Fact. Correction: God gave His Word to the world through His Church. The CC did not merely put the books together and they definitely did not need editing by Protestants. The NT was written by Catholics for Catholics. The Bible is a tool of the Church. The Church wrote the Bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Church was first. The Church was given the authority of God to preach Christ’s gospel. God never told them that they had to write anything down except for the Book of Revelation.

Luke 10:16
He who hears you (Church) hears Me, he who rejects you (Church) rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.

Matthew 23:1-3
Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

You will notice Jesus is telling them to obseve that which they tellyou to observe. Why? because they sit in Moses seat. The things they are instructed to do here are the things instructed in the Law which was given to Moses. Nothing else they do need we be mindful of, because they are hypocrits.

You can continue to misinterpret this if you wish. However, it says nothing about “instructed in the Law which was given to Moses.” Jesus acknowledges that the Scribes and Pharisees have God’s authority to speak in His Name. He says to listen and do what they tell you, but do not do what they are doing personally, because they do not do themselves, what they are telling you to do. In other words, they are hypocrites because they tell people to do the “right thing,” but they do not do the “right thing” themselves.

The Law of Moses is not mentioned at all, Moses’ authority is mentioned because Jesus is telling them that they have to obey these Scribes and Pharisees because of the authority they received as successors of Moses (they now sit in Moses’ seat, taking his place as God’s authority on earth for all to obey).

to be continued…

 

[SHW]

Continued:

Gen2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The word for breath here is neshama which also means spirit, so the breath of God is the animating force of man or his spirit. The two together make a soul. You cannot have a soul without both the breath of God and a body. At death the breath or spirit goes back to God who gave it Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. And the body goes into the grave to await the resurrection.

Soul can mean a single person and soul can also mean the temple of God within us and sometimes soul can mean our spirit.

There were 3 souls on the ship. This means there are 3 persons on the ship.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here, spirit is our mind/heart, soul is our temple, and body is our physical body.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Here soul and spirit/mind/heart are seen as two separate entities.

Sometimes the words “soul” and “spirit” are used interchangeably and sometimes soul means both temple and spirit/mind. And sometimes spirit means soul as temple. No set rules.

Stephen, the first martyr:

Acts 7:55-60
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul 59
And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus,** receive my spirit.” **60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep. (died)

Stephen’s body is buried, but Jesus receives his spirit. Stephen was privileged to see where his spirit was going. This helped fortify him spiritually during his martyrdom and gave him a glimpse of where he would be going very shortly, into the presence of the Lord forever. WOW!

It is symbolic that the martyrs are shown under the altar in Revelation because blood sacrifices are placed on an altar to be sacrificed and these martyrs have already been sacrificed so they cannot be on top of it. Their placement under the altar in the vision shows that they are in fact martyrs. This does not detract from the fact that they are crying out to the Lord, but instead emphasizes why they are crying out. Their spirits are alive and conscious in heaven and they did indeed cry out to the Lord:

Revelation 6:10-11
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

The spirits of angels and humans both praise God in heaven right now. Angels never received bodies in the first place. This does not stop them from praising God even though they have no physical mouths.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Scripture clearly states:
Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

If he sows the word of God unto life everlasting, he will reap life everlasting. If he sows error unto death he will reap eternal death.

Unless man repents, he will not be saved. Unless man restores completely what he has stolen or damaged on earth, then he will have to atone for it after death.

Colossians 3:25
But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.

If he does not repay it (atone for his venial sins) on earth, then he must repay it after death in purgatory.

There are no classifications of sin. Sin is sin period and if not repented of at death it leads to eternal death.

Ezekiel 33:15
if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live (inherit eternal life); he shall not die (be damned).

True, very trrue.

Yes, our God is a consuming fire. To those whose love is perfect (sinless), they pass through this fire unscathed into heaven at their deaths. For those who have venial sins on their souls, they pass into the fires of purgatory until all sin is purged. To those who do not have the Holy Spirit abiding in them at their deaths due to their mortal sins, they are “destroyed” by this fire and sent to hell for eternity.

Love is always sinless It’s humans that are sinners. Once you sin, you are always a sinner. It’s like being an alcaholic, but the “cure” is faith in Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. We do not burn in an eternal fire of hell. This is inconsistant with a God that “is love” 1John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

His judgment of all persons is made known to everyone on Judgment Day. On this Day, God will show all of mankind how His Sovereign Will worked with each person’s free will to accomplish His purpose of salvation for mankind. Those who spurned His grace will be damned for eternity.

Satan and the other fallen angels got cast from heaven when they first disobeyed. They will be bound in hell forever when Jesus commands it. God is now allowing Satan and his cohorts to torment us in order to test us to see if we will remain faithful to Him through tribulations. (Hebrews 10:26-27)

You got this pretty close to what the bible says except about burning in eternal fire. The bible says the damned will be destroyed Jn3: 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Alms, prayers, fasting all help atone for personal sins and are encouraged by Scripture.

The only thig that atones for sin is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.”

There would be no need to “cover for our own sins” if we did not ever have to account for and pay for them.

The way we love our brother is to show him Jesus.

James 5:20
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins

.

The way we turn a sinner from error and save his soul is by showing him Jesus

1 Corinthians 4:2
Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithfu

l.

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

True, very true

There is no such thing as OSAS

I agree, never said there was.

and there is no such Apostolic Biblical teaching which states that we do not have to atone for our own personal sins. Nothing imperfect can enter heaven. This is why there is a place called purgatory. We must atone/cover for our own personal sins because we reap what we sow.

Gal2: 16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
You cannot save yourself. If you could there would have been no reason for the Son of God to die on the cross.

What does God expect of us?
Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

This is not a suggestion. This is a command.

Sure, this means we shouldn’t be smoking and drinking and doing harmful things to our bodies.

 

[SHW]

If he sows the word of God unto life everlasting, he will reap life everlasting. If he sows error unto death he will reap eternal death.

True, however, if he is not in the state of grace at the time of his death, he gets no more chance to repent.

There are no classifications of sin. Sin is sin period and if not repented of at death it leads to eternal death.

I disagree. Venial sin does not cause the death of the soul (damnation), but mortal sin does.

1 John 5:16-17
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Matthew 7:3
And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?

These do refer to degrees of sin.

Love is always sinless It’s humans that are sinners. Once you sin, you are always a sinner. It’s like being an alcaholic, but the “cure” is faith in Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. We do not burn in an eternal fire of hell. This is inconsistant with a God that “is love” 1John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

No, once I repent, I become sanctified. This means that I am holy. I first became sanctified at Baptism. I remain sanctified until I commit sin and I still have sanctifying grace if I commit venial sins. I do not remain sanctified if I commit mortal sins such as adultery.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

You got this pretty close to what the bible says except about burning in eternal fire. The bible says the damned will be destroyed Jn3: 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I disagree. All of the damned remain in hellfire forever and are tormented forever.

Revelation 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be** tormented day and night forever and ever**.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have** their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.**

This lasts forever. “Destroyed” means they lose “eternal life.”

The only thig that atones for sin is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Scripture states that love covers a multitude of sins. Love can be shown by prayers, almsgiving, and fasting. Covers sins means atones for sins. (1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.”)

Jesus fasted for 40 days. Fasting is a good thing. The Gentile Cornelius gave alms and prayed. God approved of his gifts of love and then made it possible for him to become the first Gentile Christian. WOW!

The way we love our brother is to show him Jesus.
The way we turn a sinner from error and save his soul is by showing him Jesus

Of course, but first we need to get his attention in order to “show” him Jesus.

Gal2: 16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
You cannot save yourself. If you could there would have been no reason for the Son of God to die on the cross.

Jesus redeemed us. We did nothing to earn this. Jesus saves, but we can prevent Him from saving us by our own free will actions. If we choose to break His commandments and do not repent before death, then we will not inherit eternal life.

Matthew 19:16-19
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

to be continued…

 

[SHW]

Continued:

Sure, this means we shouldn’t be smoking and drinking and doing harmful things to our bodies.

That, too. But, sin is what causes us to be unacceptable sacrifices.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

Sin is what makes us unholy and as a result of sin, we become an unacceptable sacrifice.

How must we become acceptable sacrifices? It tells us in the very next verse:

Romans 12:2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

James 3:17-18
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

James 1:21-24
Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

If we deny Christ by our actions, then we are no longer saved. If we sin mortal sins, then we are no longer saved. Not providing for one’s own household is a mortal sin and we will not be saved if we do not provide for our relatives. It is a mortal sin of omission.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

These people will not be saved. They claim to know God and they talk the talk, but they will not be saved because they do not walk the walk! They sin mortal sins of omission and/or commission and are therefore not approved for the crown of eternal life. (James 1:12, Hebrews 5:9)

 

[Jeeda555]

Danielle Rose is her name.
She is a nun now as far as I know.
The first time I heard “God Is” I wept
She made a new cd called “Your Bride”. I sneak listened on youtube… the songs are incredibly beautiful.
I have read a few more of Corrie ten Booms books. One was called “In My Fathers House”… it was wonderful.

Good to know! Thank you very much.

Its great how your husband came to believe. C.S Lewis is so cool.

You know, my husband is a very quiet and logical man (my opposite, LOL!!! Isn’t it funny how God works? I guess we needed each other. ). He really believed that Christians were “stupid”; he didn’t mean any offense, it’s just he knew so many Christians growing up who didn’t know anything about history, science, geography, etc., and he was disgusted to learn that so many didn’t know anything even about their own faith. Even the scholars (he felt at the time) didn’t seem to know much. So Christianity was a real turn off for him.

So when he read C. S. Lewis, he was the first proof that “Hey, Christians *can *be smart, logical, and intelligent!” LOL!!! Since then he’s honestly been a different person (as only people are when God gets a hold of them).

As for music, the only song I ever saw that man weep to was Brave Saint Saturn’s “Daylight” (especially at the end! Woooo-wee! Very moving). They’re a rock band (not sure if you like rock music. The lead singer also sang for the group “Five Iron Frenzy” and “Roper” after FIF broke up, if you’re familiar with any of them, lol!!).

Here’s the song if you’re interested : youtube.com/watch?v=zZ48C8z7aOQ&feature=related

Very powerful lyrics, I think anyway. And it’s different, I admit, but it *really *grew on me!

What church do you attend now?

It’s a little congregational church called “Mt. Hope”; about 250 members or so. What about you?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

The epistles are a supplement to THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST The apostles did teach orally, but everything they taught was about JESUS CHRIST and anything that they said other than what is written down is supurfluous and we don’t need it unto salvation. The CC promotes this oral tradition balony so as to usurp the authority that belongs to God and God alone.

Your opinion, not fact.

So, are you saying the apostles had some other agenda than to preach THE WORD OF GOD.

Scripture does not say that everything was written down. The CC teaches the truth: Traditions of the Apostles must be kept, both oral and written.

Jesus is the truth. If the CC teaches anything other than the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is because there is no light in it. Isaiah 8:20To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. The testimony here talked about is the testimony of Jesus Christ. The same is talked about in Rev12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. And this is explained in Rev.19:10b for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
So, if the CC is teaching anything other than salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and Him alone, they are not preaching the truth

Facts:
2 Thessalonians 2:15
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

The apostles wrote letters to the churches. Some of these letters are in the bible. They also preached in person to some of these churches.What they taught is JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED OR THE GOSPEL. There is nothing else needed.

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you

.

My bible has this as 2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

The Church hierarchy has the authority of Christ just as Moses had God’s authority. This is Scriptural as I have pointed out in a previous post.

This is an intentional twisting of the scriptures for private motives. 2peter 1:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

If a person refuses to listen to and obey the Church, then he is to be treated from now on as a heathen and a tax collector!
Matthew 18:17
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

If you hear the Church, you hear Christ; if you reject what the Church says, then you reject Him.

Matt.18:15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Here is that passage in context. You will notice that we are being told to confront the one who transgresses us individually, then we are to take one or two witnesses with us, and then we are to take it to the church. Now, were we really disagree I suppose is just who the “church” is. You would probably say the church is the hierarchy. This is not biblical. The church is all those who beleive in Jesus Christ. Rom.12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. You should also note that Matt18:18 gives to us the so-called powers to bind and loose. This does not mean that we have carte blanche to do whatever we want. What this is, is an expression of confidence that **in Christ ** we will bind the things that are already bound in heaven, and that **in Christ ** loose the things that are already loosed in heaven.

continued

 

[Richard_Kastner]

continued

We are commanded to obey the Church hierarchy:
Hebrews 13:17
Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

I’m sure you will agree that this doesn’t mean that we should submit ourselves to any and all that call themselves church hierarchy. I beleive I will submit only to a hierarchy that is in Christ

What is the pillar (support) and ground (foundation) of the truth? Is it Scripture? No, it is the Church.

1 Timothy 3:15
but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I beleive the pillar and ground of truth here is refering to the living God and if not I certainly do not beleive the church it is refering to is the CC.

I beleive that every scripture can be verified by other scriptures

Again, not Scriptural.

Isaiah 28: 9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

What do you feel was the other one that was not scriptural?

No, God does not make mistakes. God also did not “dictate” His Word. Unimportant details do not concern God. What matters is His relationship with us and that we understand it. Superfluous details don’t matter.

Again, your opinion. Scripture tells us about God’s relationship with us. There are two different creation stories. They do not match exactly. This does not make Scripture false. If you want more details about this, let me know.

I’m not sure what your point is with all this.

We are supposed to seek knowledge only from God, not from the dead. This is the point.

Couln’t agree more

So, since Ecc 9:5 states that “neither have they any more reward,” why does Scripture state in Matthew 16:27 “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.” ?

So, are you saying there is a contradiction here? I think not. What it is saying is that when you die, that’s it. Your reward is set, there is no purgatory to give you a second chance. When we die our reward is set until Christ comes in the clouds of glory, to raise us either righteous unto eternal life or damned unto eternal death.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Rich. How do you take this part of the Bible #1 Jn21:25 and also these 2thess2:15=2Tim 2:2=1Cor11:2= iTim 2:13,Acts 2:42–2Jn 1:12–3Jn 1;13-14 Is this the verse you do not believe.

 

[Sellers1]

Thanks. As I suspected, context is everything. Paul is saying that only Christ is able to mediate strictly speaking between man and God; but Mary is a mediatrix of grace insofar as she is 1) the mother of God, from whom all grace flows, and 2) she is the most perfect intercessor, because she was saved from original sin and is yet still fully human. Again, she is not God and thus hasn’t authority in herself to mediate grace, but through her grace is mediated.

For notes on Mary as the mediatrix see especially Redemptoris Mater JPII

This is a tradition of the Church, but it is not yet dogma; although a petition has been sent to the Holy Father for this reason.

Your statement is very problematic. How do you get Mary being the most perfect intercessor? Also, how is it that you say she is saved from original sin? Mary had to be saved by God’s grace in the same way we are, no difference. She cannot radiate grace and thus it makes no difference to say that through her grace is mediated because she has no authority to mediate grace herself. This is just a play on words that doesn’t mean anything. No offense.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Peter is quoting Psalm 110:1. David’s body is in the grave. His body has not been resurrected nor ascended into heaven. Peter was explaining how David’s Psalm was prophesying Jesus Christ’s resurrection and ascension. This states nothing at all about David’s spirit.

Ecc12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. The spirit or breath of God of everyone returns to God who gave it both righteous and damned. This spirit is not concious it is simply the breath of God. The body after death becomes a corpse and sleeps in the grave to await the resurrection. This is all well worn ground and I see no reason to continue here since you seem unwilling to accept the clear word of God when it is placed in front of you.

So, you are admitting that “everything” important is not in the Bible?

I don’t think this is very important.

Excuse, me. So, it was a minor feast. This does not make my point moot. My point is very valid. Not everything pertaining to religion is written in Scripture as proven by Jesus Himself walking in the temple in Jerusalem on the Feast of the Dedication, which I think is very appropriate since He is the true temple. (Revelation 21:22)

How could it be in the bible when it came after the bible was written. Jesus honored this feast because it was a way of honoring His Father. The fact that it’s not in the bible shows that it just is not that important and the keeping of it or not has no effect on our salvation.

Not arrogance. Fact. Correction: God gave His Word to the world through His Church. The CC did not merely put the books together and they definitely did not need editing by Protestants. The NT was written by Catholics for Catholics. The Bible is a tool of the Church. The Church wrote the Bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Church was first. The Church was given the authority of God to preach Christ’s gospel. God never told them that they had to write anything down except for the Book of Revelation.

The bible, all of it, was written by God through holy men inspired by God.
2Peter2:21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Luke 10:16
He who hears you (Church) hears Me, he who rejects you (Church) rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.

This is Jesus talking about His disciples. It says nothing about the CC

You can continue to misinterpret this if you wish. However, it says nothing about “instructed in the Law which was given to Moses.” Jesus acknowledges that the Scribes and Pharisees have God’s authority to speak in His Name. He says to listen and do what they tell you, but do not do what they are doing personally, because they do not do themselves, what they are telling you to do. In other words, they are hypocrites because they tell people to do the “right thing,” but they do not do the “right thing” themselves.

The Law of Moses is not mentioned at all, Moses’ authority is mentioned because Jesus is telling them that they have to obey these Scribes and Pharisees because of the authority they received as successors of Moses (they now sit in Moses’ seat, taking his place as God’s authority on earth for all to obey).

Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Jesus was not telling them to obey the Scibes and Pharasees because they had some sort of inherited authority, but only when they spoke from Moses seat. Which was according to the law, which was given by God. The sciptures in Jesus time were divided into two parts basically. These were:The Law and the Prophets. Whenever Moses is talked about, the Law is automatically implied.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

True, however, if he is not in the state of grace at the time of his death, he gets no more chance to repent.

Ok!

I disagree. Venial sin does not cause the death of the soul (damnation), but mortal sin does.

1 John 5:16-17
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Matthew 7:3
And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?

These do refer to degrees of sin.

No, they don’t. The 1Jn passage is talking about the unpardonalbe sin. Which is any sin that is not confessed and repented of. The Matt Passage is talking about quantity.
Rom6:23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Where are the classifications of sin in this v. Don’t you see how dangerous this idea is. Number one. It minimizes the hatefulness and destructive nature of sin. And number two and probably the worst it minimizes Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. That He didn’t die for all sin, because some sin just isn’t that bad and we can take care of those ourselves. This doctrine was hatched in the bowels of hell.

No, once I repent, I become sanctified. This means that I am holy. I first became sanctified at Baptism. I remain sanctified until I commit sin and I still have sanctifying grace if I commit venial sins. I do not remain sanctified if I commit mortal sins such as adultery.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

So, how can you repent when you are six weeks old. The truth is baptism has no power to give grace, to sanctify you, or to wash away sins. We receive grace from God through faith, it is a gift. Eph.2: 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: We are sanctified through the word Jn17:17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Who is Christ Jn14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. And our sins are washed away by the atoning sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Jn3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Our baptism is an announcement to the world that we have taken Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

I disagree. All of the damned remain in hellfire forever and are tormented forever.

Revelation 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be** tormented day and night forever and ever**.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have** their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.**

This lasts forever. “Destroyed” means they lose “eternal life.”

Rev 21:4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How can this v. be true and the idea of a place of eternal torment also be true?
de⋅stroy 
verb 1. to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.
2. to put an end to; extinguish.
3. to kill; slay.
4. to render ineffective or useless; nullify; neutralize; invalidate.
5. to defeat completely.
When something is destroyed it ceases to exist.

Quote:
The only thing that atones for sin is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Scripture states that love covers a multitude of sins. Love can be shown by prayers, almsgiving, and fasting. Covers sins means atones for sins. (1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.”)
So, we don’t need Christ’s sacrifice, We can do it ourselves?

Jesus fasted for 40 days. Fasting is a good thing. The Gentile Cornelius gave alms and prayed. God approved of his gifts of love and then made it possible for him to become the first Gentile Christian. WOW!

There are two great commandments. the first and greatest is to love God. The way we show our love for God is through obedeince
Jn 14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jesus redeemed us. We did nothing to earn this. Jesus saves, but we can prevent Him from saving us by our own free will actions. If we choose to break His commandments and do not repent before death, then we will not inherit eternal life.

Above you said we could atone for our sins by our works. Now you are saying we need Christ. What gives?

to be continued

 

[SHW]

The epistles are a supplement to THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST The apostles did teach orally, but everything they taught was about JESUS CHRIST and anything that they said other than what is written down is supurfluous and we don’t need it unto salvation. The CC promotes this oral tradition balony so as to usurp the authority that belongs to God and God alone.

They taught the Gospel of Christ, but not all of it was written down. You want to say that it is, because you choose to reject the authority of His Church.

Scripture states that we must obey all the traditions. It does not state that we only have to obey the written traditions. I posted Scriptures which prove this very point.

So, are you saying the apostles had some other agenda than to preach THE WORD OF GOD.

No, what I am stating is that they taught the WORD OF GOD orally and by letter and this is backed up by Scripture.

Jesus is the truth. If the CC teaches anything other than the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is because there is no light in it. Isaiah 8:20To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. The testimony here talked about is the testimony of Jesus Christ. The same is talked about in Rev12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. And this is explained in Rev.19:10b for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
So, if the CC is teaching anything other than salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and Him alone, they are not preaching the truth

The CC speaks for Christ. It cannot possibly teach anything contrary to Jesus’ teachings on faith and morals. Jesus promised to protect His Church from teaching error because He said that He would be with His Church until He returns. He promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide His one Church into all truth. If His Church teaches error, then this makes Jesus a liar. We know that Jesus is not a liar, therefore His one Church that He founded and built upon Peter first, and also the other apostles and prophets, cannot possibly teach error. Simple reasoning.

Everyone is saved by the grace of God. No one is saved without the grace of God. No person can save himself or any other person without the grace of God. However, a person must cooperate with God’s grace in order to become saved and also to inherit eternal life. A person can reject the grace of God at anytime during his life and lose salvation. And, unless he repents before death, he will not inherit eternal life.

The apostles wrote letters to the churches. Some of these letters are in the bible. They also preached in person to some of these churches.What they taught is JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED OR THE GOSPEL. There is nothing else needed.

Depends on what you believe the Gospel really is. The gospel is all that the Apostles taught. What else did they teach?

Obey the hierarchy. Go to Church. Live a Christian life. Receive the Eucharist, etc.

My bible has this as 2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

Tradition and ordinance mean basically the same thing:

παράδοσις (paradosis 3862)

1. tradition
   delivery, that is the act of delivering over from one to another.
   Reference(s)
   Mat 15:2, Mat 15:3, Mat 15:6, Mar 7:3, Mar 7:5, Mar 7:8, Mar 7:9, Mar 7:13, Col 2:8, 2Th 3:6
2. ordinance -s
   delivery, the act of delivering over from one to another, precept, ordinance, instruction.

This is an intentional twisting of the scriptures for private motives. 2peter 1:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Just what do you think you are doing? This is your own private interpretation. In truth, the Catholic Church has the authority of Christ given to it by Him.

Here is that passage in context. You will notice that we are being told to confront the one who transgresses us individually, then we are to take one or two witnesses with us, and then we are to take it to the church. Now, were we really disagree I suppose is just who the “church” is. You would probably say the church is the hierarchy. This is not biblical. The church is all those who beleive in Jesus Christ. Rom.12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. You should also note that Matt18:18 gives to us the so-called powers to bind and loose. This does not mean that we have carte blanche to do whatever we want. What this is, is an expression of confidence that **in Christ ** we will bind the things that are already bound in heaven, and that **in Christ ** loose the things that are already loosed in heaven.

You are making up your own interpretation again. The Church is comprised of all believers. It’s members are subject to the hierarchy. The hierarchy is subject to Christ. Heaven looses what the Church looses. Heaven binds what the Church binds, not the other way around. However, it is true that Jesus will prevent His Church from binding and loosing anything contrary to His Gospel.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Continued:

Quote:
Gen2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The word for breath here is neshama which also means spirit, so the breath of God is the animating force of man or his spirit. The two together make a soul. You cannot have a soul without both the breath of God and a body. At death the breath or spirit goes back to God who gave it Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. And the body goes into the grave to await the resurrection.

Soul can mean a single person and soul can also mean the temple of God within us and sometimes soul can mean our spirit.