Jesus Christ is our only 'mediator' as stated by St. Paul

[guanophore]

Don’t feel bad; no one can answer the question. Like you; they all avoid the question altogether.
How are the JW’s much different from you; both claim extraneous revelation from a divine source IMO.

**Where is the answer to the question in your post? I’m having difficulty seeing it:

What are those traditions Paul refers to and be very specific and provide proof of your answer and I encourage anyone to answer this question? Name one or two? What proof do you have that shows they already existed; since it is written in the past tense; they already were in effect.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught** {PAST TENSE}, whether by word {of mouth} or by letter from us.

These are related, so I will address them together. The first error in your question is the word “extraneous”. You see, the man made doctrine of Sola Scriptura did not emerge until the 1600’s. Prior to that time, all Christians believed that there was one divine deposit of faith, which closed at the death of the last apostle. This deposit existed in the form of Sacred Scripture, and Sacred Tradition. Both are considered equally valuable. What good is having Sacred Scripture when it is not interpreted according to the Teaching of the Apostles? It is clear that it only produces division and error.

The difference between the JW understanding and Catholic is the Apostolic Teaching on the revelation. Catholics accept that all public revelation closed, JW’s and Mormon’s reject this teaching.

In answer to your other question, one of the Sacred Traditions is that the reading of Scripture should never be separated from the deposit of Truth that was committed to the Church by the Apostles.

 

[avflf]

The manner in which Saul attempted to do so certainly was wrong, but the fact is that the appearance of Samuel was at God’s discretion, not any work of a medium. A medium has no power to conjur the saints of God. They are forever protected from such evil. In fact, Samuel lays the blame squarely at the feet of Saul “why do YOU disturb my rest”?

Saul wanted guidance, but those who have gone on to the next life have rested from their labors.

So… why keep on disturbing them by praying to them???

 

[placido]

So… why keep on disturbing them by praying to them???

If you believe that we disturb them, then you admit they hear us. We have moved one step forward.

Next step?

The “disturbing” referred to was in the Old Testament … that was before Jesus came, opened the gates of heaven and extablished the “communion of saints” - all the saints (on earth and in heaven) are in communion, in the one Body of Christ.

placido

 

[elvisman]

So… why keep on disturbing them by praying to them???

Because conjuring up the dead as opposed to asking for their help are 2 separate issues.
Samuel asked Saul this question because what Saul did was forbidden.

 

[guanophore]

Which post are you referring to? Nothing outside of general revelation (i.e creation-Romans 1 and begging of ch.2) or divine revelation (i.e Scripture) is necessary for salvation,

Really? How interesting. So, how did people get saved before the NT was written? Why did Jesus have to die, if that was all we needed?

Christian living, edification & equipping of the body and knowledge of God’s character and attributes to bring us into a closer love relationship with Him and Him with us.

So you are asserting that Jesus was wasting His time, engaging in unnecessary activity by building a church?

Nothing is wrong with traditions; and are useful for bringing Christians into fellowship with each other and God.

Well, this is a relief to hear. However, I sense that you are not distinguishing between sacred tradition, and traditions of men.

However, traditions should always be measured against divine revelation to make sure they are in accord with divine authority.

This doesn’t make any sense, since Sacred Tradition IS divine revelation. I suspect what you are saying here is that it needs to line up with your understanding of what scripture says, since you are saying there is no divine revelation outside of that.

The Catholic Church defines Scripture by its traditions; thus putting greater emphasis on tradition in light of Scripture IMO.

No, the value is considered equal.

The reason is because Scripture is the inspired Word; whereas some/many traditions are in direct contradiction to Scripture and add and/or subtract from God’s word.

No sacred traditions can contradict, because they come from the same Source, which is God. I agree that some of the traditions of men might.

By doing so; traditions of men are saying God did not add enough or God put too much in; either way one is saying God did not do it right.

I agree. I think the tradition of men called Sola Scriptura, which results in men believing that revelation outside of Scripture is “extraneous” is definitely saying God did not do it right.

As far as what came first; the gospels or tradition that depends on how you view things from man’s perspective or God’s; they are usually different. “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God”; so in the infinite mind of God; He had everything already determined according to His purpose including the gospel, oral traditions, written word, you, me etc.

Yes, but this common error of equating the Third person of the Trinity with the written word is idolatrous. The Scripture reflects Him, but is not the source of Him, nor can it be equated with His eternity.

From man’s perspective; I really don’t know. I doubt all the instruction, which God gave Moses concerning the Levitical priesthood and all that encompasses could be memorized unless they were given supernatural memories passed on from generation to generation; which I guess could be the case.

Your doubt in God’s ability to preserve His word through people will not negate His ability in any way, except for how it applies to yourself.

We do know that God wrote on tablets twice; the ten commandments.

And part of the Sacred Tradition is how Moses implemented those laws, and how the elders appointed by him implemented them with the people. Most of that is not written.

I

really don’t know the answer; to me it doesn’t make a difference for salvation if from the Lord and He has laid down the standard and told us the do’s and don’ts.

At least, you can cling to what you perceive that they are.

Prior to being called of God; I was self deceived into thinking that I believed in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and that by being a "good" person I would be in heaven.

And it turns out your understanding of general revelation was correct. You just did not know that to become that “good” person, you needed to be washed in the blood of the Lamb!

 

[guanophore]

That was the best answer; most Catholics associate that passage with the apostolic succession and the traditions that have evolved over time within the Church.

It is true that the Catholic Church associates this with Apostolic Succession, but it is incorrect about “evolution over time”. Sacred Traditions are, by definition, a “once for all” deposit, and are considered to have been complete at the death of the last Apostle.

 

[avflf]

If you believe that we disturb them, then you admit they hear us. We have moved one step forward.

Next step?

The “disturbing” referred to was in the Old Testament … that was before Jesus came, opened the gates of heaven and extablished the “communion of saints” - all the saints (on earth and in heaven) are in communion, in the one Body of Christ.

placido

Well… that’s what Samuel said; he must have heard Saul calling him, albeit through an intermediary. I personally have no problem with any of your views on who should be the intermediary between man and God, but thinking it through logically I don’t think the dearly departed would be able to help you as they are all in the heavenly choir, 24/7, learning some new songs, like the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb (Rev.15:3), in Hebrew - a foreign language for the majority of saints and godly departed relatives.
Mary, on the other hand, will be too busy organizing the marriage feast of her son (Rev.19:7) (you know how all mothers fuss over their children - nothing but the best) and with all the cooking, baking and wine making plus setting the tables and sending out the invites and doing a thousand other things to make this feast something to be remembered in history books, I don’t think she has the time to convey your petitions. Jesus, however, wont have much on his plate, he is after all the guest of Honor and no one expects him to get involved in the preparations, so to my way of looking at things he’s probably the one more likely to relay your messages. Mind you I can almost visualize Jesus coming to the Father and say: " You already knew what they all wanted to tell you, before they even thought it, so I shan’t bother you with repetitions; going to check my white horse and see if they 've used enough blood on my parade garments…but you knew that already, right?"(Rev 19:11-13)

 

[heiscominginthe]

Ah! I see you hadn’t heard. The Word was made flesh of the Virgin Mary and became man. He walked the earth in the flesh and by sacraficing Himself in the the flesh and rising again in the flesh He atoned for our sins.

Every Protestant denomination makes use Intercessory prayer in their churches. Just as Paul asked the church to pray for him or you might ask your congregation to pray for you. We do to same thing but we include the whole church; Church Militant, Church Suffering and Church Triumphant! One does not cease to be a member of the Body of Christ when he becomes separate from the body but together with Christ.

If you would like to learn more about the teachings of Jesus Christ, please contact the folks at chnetwork.org/. I promise, if you unite yourself to Jesus Christ through His Church, you will experience the great gift the He has promised to those who follow Him. And He is faithful and sure to keep His promises. Repent, turn to the Gospel and be saved and you will have everlasting life.

Grace and peace be with you.

Certainly we are to ask our brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us or others. Yet, When we pray to Jesus, whether it is for forgiveness or healing or what ever, we don’t go to Moses of Elijah or Mary and ask them to make intercession for us to Jesus.

We pray that Jesus make intercession for us to the Father. It is written.

 

[heiscominginthe]

placido;5533955]To explain spiritual reality we have to use earthly images, otherwise nothing will ever be clear to us.

Then explain to me how it can be that God has no beginning and no end? You can use earthly images if you please.

1. The Bible says it is alright for believers to ask other believers to pray/intercede for them;
2. Mary is a believer;
   THEREFOE: we can ask Mary to pray/intercede for us.
   You might come in and say “but she is dead”, and I would say, “whoever believes in Jesus will never die”.
   I hope now you get it.

placido

Show me where it says for us to pray to the dead in Christ, that I may believe?

It does say that we pray to Jesus and he makes intercession for us unto the Father. NO place does it say to pray to the dead in Christ, that they may make intercession unto Christ for us.

 

[heiscominginthe]

hiscominginthe, I was thiing the threas was about prayer and you make a remark about my Mother and DAD Does this show your ignort or are you trying to be funny,I was showing intercessory pray. You do know what interecssory pray is right…I WAS NOT COMPAING MY MOTHER OR FATEHR TO ANY ONE AND DID NOT SAY I DID. Your like them non-cathloic denomination that are from a very small group that just don,t understand the bible well,Have a good night and hope to talk later

Bill, I did not mean to upset you and I was not trying to be smart. What I was trying to do is help you see your idea of intercessory prayer is unscriptural.

The bible tells us that when we pray, Christ himself makes intercession for us unto his Father.

The dead in Christ do not make intercessory prayer for us. Do you not realize that their time is spent praising the MOST HIGH? Do you really think they are concerned with what is occurring on earth, knowing all the while that all things are in the hands of the Lord?

I ask that when you pray, you pray to Jesus, and you prayer to the Father, in Jesus’ name only. If you want to be heard, this is what you need to do.

I pray the Lord open your heart and mind to his truth, and not that of the World.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Thank You for your answer and I see now I was rude me talking about my Mother and Dad I just read it the wrong way and for that let me say I,m SORRY I was not trying to be rude.
Do believe people that are in heaven are dead. see I believe we never die if we have Jesus in our heart and we make it to heaven and we are alive. So I think it is best you ask a person in heaven to pray with me,and YES I have pray to Mary because I believe She is in heaven, and most of My pray to Mary have been answerer because Jesus was listening. Do you remember the wedding in Cana.

 

[placido]

placido
Show me where it says for us to pray to the dead in Christ, that I may believe?

Nowhere does it say for us to pray to “the dead in Christ” because there is no such ones … we pray to those who are alive in Christ. To say a believer is dead is to contradict what Jesus taught us.

It does say that we pray to Jesus and he makes intercession for us unto the Father.

Show me where it says for us to pray to Jesus because I was always under the impression that,

1. we are to ask other believers to pray for us, and
2. ask the Father in Jesus’ name …

NO place does it say to pray to the dead in Christ, that they may make intercession unto Christ for us.

No place does it say to pray to “the dead in Christ” because there is no such ones … we pray to those who are alive in Christ. To say a believer is dead is to contradict what Jesus taught us.

placido

 

[heiscominginthe]

placido;5537651]Nowhere does it say for us to pray to “the dead in Christ” because there is no such ones … we pray to those who are alive in Christ. To say a believer is dead is to contradict what Jesus taught us.

1 Thess. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,

When a believer dies, his body dies in Christ, going to sleep in the earth. But his soul/spirit goes to be with Jesus and comes with him on the day of resurrection to be rejoined with his resurrected body that sleeps in the earth.

Show me where it says for us to pray to Jesus because I was always under the impression that,

1. we are to ask other believers to pray for us, and
2. ask the Father in Jesus’ name …

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit also helps our weaknesses, for we don’t know how to pray as we ought. But the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which can’t be uttered.

Romans 8:27 He who searches the hearts knows what is on the Spirit’s mind, because he makes intercession for the saints according to God.

Romans 8:34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is also able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, seeing that he lives forever to make intercession for them.

No place does it say to pray to “the dead in Christ” because there is no such ones … we pray to those who are alive in Christ. To say a believer is dead is to contradict what Jesus taught us.

placido

1 Corinthians 15:18 And, in addition, the dead in Christ have gone to destruction.

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Nowhere does it say for us to pray to “the dead in Christ” because there is no such ones … we pray to those who are alive in Christ. To say a believer is dead is to contradict what Jesus taught us.

1Thess. 4:
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When Jesus returns to this eath He will come to get those that have fallen asleep (died). Those that die in the faith of Jesus Christ are called “the dead in Christ” v. 16. They are called the dead in Christ because they are dead (asleep). You will notice in v. 16 also that the dead rise. They don’t come down with Jesus and return into their bodies, but their bodies once again are instilled with the breath of God (or His Spirit), the graves are open and they are raised out of the grave. Jesus Himself explains this in

John 11:5Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.

He stayed where He was to make sure that there would be no question that Lazarus was indeed dead.

11These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

Jesus explains the principle of death, that it is like sleep. He says He is glad He was not there, so that they might believe. Believe in what? Well of coarse to believe that He is who He says He is and it is only through Him that the dead will be raised.

21Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

What Jesus says next has lead to some confusion, but needlessly if we read it carefully.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Some would say. See Jesus is saying here that after death we go on living in a new state of being. Well in light of vs. 11-15 that is not what He is saying. He is saying that after the resurrection from the dead those that believe in Him will have eternal life. And whosoever liveth and believeth in Him shall never die, after they are raised from the dead onto eternal life.

42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

You will notice that Jesus calls Lazarus out of the tomb in which he lay dead not down from heaven. Lazarus has the ultimate death experience. Jesus makes sure that he is dead v. 15 “to the intent ye may believe;” Yet Lazarus says nothing about a tunnel with a bright light at the end. He says nothing about seeing long dead relatives greeting him or nothing about standing on the see of glass praising God, Why? Because he was dead (asleep) in Christ.

Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

No place does it say to pray to “the dead in Christ” because there is no such ones … we pray to those who are alive in Christ. To say a believer is dead is to contradict what Jesus taught us.

placido

1Thess.4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[drolla]

JESUS is the ONLY MEDIATOR between GOD & Man. This pertains to the salvation of souls for which Jesus is the Savior who can mediate between sinner & God.
MARY is the BEST MEDIATOR between mankind and her son Jesus. Why?
She is the Mother of God, the Incarnation is clothed bone of bone and flesh of flesh of Immaculate Mary, who is also the most favored daughter of God the Father and most blessd among women, Spouse of the Holy Spirit. She is the human bridge to God the Father through the God man Jesus her son.
Jesus gave her to us as our own Mother and through her Jesus, God Incarnate, is our brother. We are family. God chose that All Grace necessary to save mankind (JESUS)
should come into the world through Mary Immaculate. Jesus gave us Mary from the cross to be our own. If you want to know the son intimately, know the Mother.

 

[placido]

1 Thess. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,

When a believer dies, his body dies in Christ, going to sleep in the earth. But his soul/spirit goes to be with Jesus and comes with him on the day of resurrection to be rejoined with his resurrected body that sleeps in the earth.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit also helps our weaknesses, for we don’t know how to pray as we ought. But the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which can’t be uttered.

Romans 8:27 He who searches the hearts knows what is on the Spirit’s mind, because he makes intercession for the saints according to God.

Romans 8:34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is also able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, seeing that he lives forever to make intercession for them.

1 Corinthians 15:18 And, in addition, the dead in Christ have gone to destruction.

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

In your haste to prove me wrong you made a terrible mistake that any interpreter of Scriptures is warned against: if Bible texts seem to contradict each other, there is something wrong in your intepretaion.
Now, you provided texts that speak of the “dead in Christ” and I can provide texts that say “a believer is alive even if dead” and if alive “shall never die”. What now? Does the Bible contradict itself like atheits say?
No ways!
In cases where texts seem to contradict each other, Jesus’ own words are given preference.
You get the point?

placido

 

[brb2]

1Thess. 4:
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When Jesus returns to this eath He will come to get those that have fallen asleep (died). Those that die in the faith of Jesus Christ are called “the dead in Christ” v. 16. They are called the dead in Christ because they are dead (asleep). You will notice in v. 16 also that the dead rise. They don’t come down with Jesus and return into their bodies, but their bodies once again are instilled with the breath of God (or His Spirit), the graves are open and they are raised out of the grave. Jesus Himself explains this in

John 11:5Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.

He stayed where He was to make sure that there would be no question that Lazarus was indeed dead.

11These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

Jesus explains the principle of death, that it is like sleep. He says He is glad He was not there, so that they might believe. Believe in what? Well of coarse to believe that He is who He says He is and it is only through Him that the dead will be raised.

21Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

What Jesus says next has lead to some confusion, but needlessly if we read it carefully.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Some would say. See Jesus is saying here that after death we go on living in a new state of being. Well in light of vs. 11-15 that is not what He is saying. He is saying that after the resurrection from the dead those that believe in Him will have eternal life. And whosoever liveth and believeth in Him shall never die, after they are raised from the dead onto eternal life.

42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

You will notice that Jesus calls Lazarus out of the tomb in which he lay dead not down from heaven. Lazarus has the ultimate death experience. Jesus makes sure that he is dead v. 15 “to the intent ye may believe;” Yet Lazarus says nothing about a tunnel with a bright light at the end. He says nothing about seeing long dead relatives greeting him or nothing about standing on the see of glass praising God, Why? Because he was dead (asleep) in Christ.

Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

1Thess.4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

RK …

You bring up some good points. Start a new post … and pose the question ---- so this can be discussed ON TOPIC. I

 

[Richard_Kastner]

RK …

You bring up some good points. Start a new post … and pose the question ---- so this can be discussed ON TOPIC. I

The topic being discussed at this time is the state of the dead and whether or not they are able to be intercessors before God on our behalf my post was in answer to placido’s belief that there is no such statement as “dead in Christ” in the bible and the dead continue to live. I believe this is ON TOPIC and in keeping with the OP.

 

[guanophore]

So… why keep on disturbing them by praying to them???

This is an excellent question, I think. Samuel did chastize Saul for disturbing his rest. However, I don’t think that Elijah and Moses had their rest disturbed by a conversation with Jesus. They have rested from their labors in the sense that they no longer need to work out their salvation in fear and trembling. They no longer suffer. They are able to join in unimpeded worship in the presence of God. This enables them to intercede and help us from a position of love being perfected, rather than love that suffers, as we have here on earth. They are the Church triumphant, and nothing can take this away.

 

[heiscominginthe]

In your haste to prove me wrong you made a terrible mistake that any interpreter of Scriptures is warned against: if Bible texts seem to contradict each other, there is something wrong in your intepretaion.
Now, you provided texts that speak of the “dead in Christ” and I can provide texts that say “a believer is alive even if dead” and if alive “shall never die”. What now? Does the Bible contradict itself like atheits say?
No ways!
In cases where texts seem to contradict each other, Jesus’ own words are given preference.
You get the point?

placido

There is not contradiction, only your interpretation or understanding sees it as such.

All will die in the flesh, sinner and saint alike. Yet, those who die in the flesh, who are born again believers in Jesus Christ, die only in the flesh, for their spirit goes to be with Jesus.

Now the unrighteous dead, once they die in the flesh, because their spirit/soul was not born again through faith in Jesus, their soul remains dead and is taken to where the unrighteous dead are reserved until judgement.

So what you view as a contradiction is not a contradiction at all.