Jesus' status in Islam and Judaism

[Sister_Amy]

Why are you ignoring post #244??

Vickie

Why are YOU ignoring Matthew 10:5?

 

[ralphinal]

No, what you typed is a very subtle distortion of what I said.

I didn’t say that Muhammad is a prophet because the Qur’an says he is. I said that Muhammad is a prophet because the Qur’an proves he is.

And the Qur’an isn’t the Word of God just because it says it is, but because it proves it is.

The Qur’an is the proof.

How else can you expect people to believe in the Qur’an and reject the Bible? The Qur’an proves itself.

I am sorry. I misunderstood.

How does it prove itself? PLease explain the proof to me.

 

[Sister_Amy]

at least Amy, at least, we have God’s words to back our belief up, in addition to what Jesus taught, and the tradition. Yes there is faith, but at least give us the credit that it backed up by previous scriptures as well.

Tell me, was Jesus teaching something other than God’s words? Because you said you have God’s words in addition to what Jesus taught. Are they… not the same?

What I say is backed up by scripture too. But if you don’t believe in mine… why should I give any more credence to yours?

What you have is a book that opposes previous ones, without any back up. Yes you have faith, but Allah did not give you any back up. On the contrary, he tricked us by telling us his words are corrupt yet left the teachings that his words cannot be corrupt.

The book IS the backup.

As to Jesus’ death, you must know by now that He gave it willingly, He was not forced…suffered? yes, was in agony? yes, but willingly…but whatever reason we might give, even if i tell you He allowed Himself to die in order to prove He is the Messiah, not a false one, you will still reject it, but to believe in WHAT instead? someone else dying? mass hallucination? drugs rampant among people? illusion? trick?

I don’t believe he died.

 

[Sister_Amy]

sister amy,pls don’t go further.ur quran proved that muhamed is prophet,ur quran prove that 2/3+1/6+1/6+1/8=1(inheritance law;sura4:11,12.what a terrible mathematical error),ur quran proved that we trinity is father+mother+son(sura5:116)…should i continue?

LOL. I’m sorry you don’t understand inheritance law. But it’s not my fault. I’m sorry you don’t understand tawheed, either.

Let me explain it to you.

ilaah=anything worshiped, anything at all. Anything you pray to, anything you attribute supernatural power to. Anything you think answers your prayers. etc.

The Qur’an doesn’t say Mary is part of the trinity, it says that Jesus never taught anyone to worship her. But yet… who prays to Mary? Not the Muslims.

 

[morning_star777]

How does it prove itself? PLease explain the proof to me.

i am asking the same question to sister amy

 

[morning_star777]

sister amy i understand ur inheritance law very well.when i and agnos thiest challenged the same thing to planten then he tried to prove it in his own way.but we again challenge then planten took time but still didn’t answer..that time where were you?quran is in my hand now&i understand bangla very well.if my memory didn’t betray with me then this thread is MAJOR FLAWS OF ISLAM,we were arguing with planten about inheritance law.thank you

 

[Ed_Rand]

of course am disputing it because Arabs existed before Ishmael.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I am sorry. I misunderstood.

How does it prove itself? PLease explain the proof to me.

If the Qur’an were written by a man, then surely another man would be capable of creating something comparable to it. Right?

islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Miracle/ijaz.html

“The Quran is one of the world’s classics which cannot be translated without grave loss. It has a rhythm of peculiar beauty and a cadence that charms the ear. Many Christian Arabs speak of its style with warm admiration, and most Arabists acknowledge its excellence. When it is read aloud or recited it has an almost hypnotic effect that makes the listener indifferent to its sometimes strange syntax and its sometimes, to us, repellent content. It is this quality it possesses of silencing criticism by the sweet music of its language that has given birth to the dogma of its inimitability; indeed it may be affirmed that within the literature of the Arabs, wide and fecund as it is both in poetry and in elevated prose, there is nothing to compare with it.” Alfred Guillaume, Islam, 1990 (Reprinted), Penguin Books, pp. 73-74.

 

[Ed_Rand]

According to Judaism, Ishmael was the father of the Ishmaelites. I don’t think all arabs trace their ancestory to the Ishmaelites, do they? Did Mohammed?

I imagine that not all Arabs do, but Muslims do. Muhammad certainly did.

 

[Angelos]

LOL. I’m sorry you don’t understand inheritance law. But it’s not my fault. I’m sorry you don’t understand tawheed, either.

Let me explain it to you.

ilaah=anything worshiped, anything at all. Anything you pray to, anything you attribute supernatural power to. Anything you think answers your prayers. etc.

The Qur’an doesn’t say Mary is part of the trinity, it says that Jesus never taught anyone to worship her. But yet… who prays to Mary? Not the Muslims.

Open invitation to honesty please!

Surah 5:116 And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ?

Surah 5:73. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God.

Surah 5:75. The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food.

If Islam does not mistakenly presume that Mary is a person of the Christian Trinity, why does it never refute the Christian view of the Holy Spirit? Why aren’t Christians criticized for deifying the Spirit? I am almost sure that we Christians will never get answer to any of these questions.

 

[Sister_Amy]

sister amy i understand ur inheritance law very well.when i and agnos thiest challenged the same thing to planten then he tried to prove it in his own way.but we again challenge then planten took time but still didn’t answer..so pls see this thread. MAJOR FLAWS OF ISLAM

I am in THIS thread. You’re holding up a square peg to a square hole and turning it sideways so it won’t go in, and then saying it doesn’t fit. (that’s a metaphor.) All you are showing is that you can’t do math. I’m not going to waste my time teaching you math while I’m in the middle of a much deeper and significant conversation with everyone else. If you want to learn math, go ask a math teacher.

 

[Angelos]

If the Qur’an were written by a man, then surely another man would be capable of creating something comparable to it. Right?

Chain of logical fallacies.

No one could write something comparable to the Koran because

**1) **there certainly was no need for that. This sounds like asking your opponent to fabricate a story in order to prove that your story is a fabrication.

2) It is rather difficult for educated and honest men to write a book similar to the Koran, which is full of historical, scientific, and grammatical errors as well as logical fallacies.

 

[morning_star777]

no thanks sister,i don’t need a math teacher.but i think allah(or muhammed)need a math teacher.or the translator should be punished who translated quran in to bangla.(planten claim in another thread that who translated quran in bangla they made mistake).but whatever.when muslims can’t give logic then they give free advice.i know their habit.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Chain of logical fallacies.

No one could write something comparable to the Koran because

**1) **there certainly was no need for that. This sounds like asking your opponent to fabricate a story in order to prove that your story is a fabrication.

Not at all. How do you prove something is from God? By showing that no man is capable of doing the same. Because if a man can do it, then why believe it is from God?

2)

Then perhaps an uneducated and dishonest man could do it? Really, your argument makes no sense at all. Frankly, that’s typical from you. Besides, a person doesn’t have to even write a whole book like the Qur’an, *just one chapter! *

The shortest chapter of the Qur’an is this:

إِنَّا أَعْطَيْنَاكَ الْكَوْثَرَ
فَصَلِّ لِرَبِّكَ وَانْحَرْ
إِنَّ شَانِئَكَ هُوَ الْأَبْتَرُ

Inna aAtayna kal kawthar
Fasalli li rabbika wanhar
Inna shani-aka huwal abtar

Verily We have given to you the abundance
So pray to your Lord and sacrifice
Indeed your enemy is the one who is cut off

That’s it. All you have to do is create one chapter like that! Three short lines!!

Three Lines that Changed the World

 

[Sister_Amy]

no thanks sister,i don’t need a math teacher.but i think allah(or muhammed)need a math teacher.or the translator should be punished who translated quran in to bangla.(planten claim in another thread that who translated quran in bangla they made mistake).but whatever.when muslims can’t give logic then they give free advice.i know their habit.

So you think that billions of Muslims do… what when they distribute inheritance? Make money out of thin air? Really, the fact that you think you’re on to something should be your first clue that… you’re not.

 

[Angelos]

And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur’an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful.

The authors of the Koran pathetically failed to concur on the exact number of Surahs demanded from disbelievers to prove its supposed divine origin:

Surah 10:38. Or say they: He hath invented it ? Say: Then bring a surah like unto it, and call (for help) on all ye can besides Allah, if ye are truthful.

Surah 11:13. Or they say: He hath invented it. Say: Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!

From one chapter to ten, then to one again!!!

Surah 2:23. And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.

sigh

 

[Ed_Rand]

because he believes that Jesus was crucified and resurrected and that He is the Judge of his soul…in order for Ed to believe that Muhammad is a prophet, he must disbelieve in these things at the same time. He might if he is insane, but so far i believe he is an intelligent person

Sorry to disappoint you. I don’t disbelieve in these things, but I believe they are God’s word to me. The Qur’an is God’s word to them. Because God says different things to different peoples this does not make Him a liar. Again I tell you, God operates on a higher plane than you and I.

I guess I’ve lost my mind.

I have also said on this thread that the revelations given to Christians through Christ are His most sublime. So far, no Muslims have disputed this.

 

[inJESUS]

So which is it? Jesus said he was sent ONLY to the Jews. And Jesus told his disciples NOT to go to gentiles.

Jesus told His disciples on their mission to go to Jews…did you expect otherwise? then they preached to alll. And your quote actually shoots your argument because althou Jesus said what He said, it was to provoke her faith and He granted her wish, even though non-Jew. Another example shoots your argument is the gentile leader. Another example is Vicky’s passage, and you have me a gentile talking to you because His apostles understood better than you that Jesus came to preach to Jews and gentiles and they preached in my land as well…this is even in the OT

I’m not making fun of your intelligence but apparently you are. It’s a remarkably simple concept–especially for you since you know what the word “muslim” means.

 

[Ed_Rand]

The laws I am talking about are the practical day to day legal system prescribed in the Bible. There are crimes, with prescribed punishments. Leviticus 20 is pretty severe with the punishments. Do Christians adhere to these laws?

What God taught us Transcends these laws.

 

[inJESUS]

So was he LYING or did he just not MEAN what he SAID?

neither. He is indeed only sent to the only people who await Him, and likewise extending it to all nations, as per the OT and NT. Where is the difficulty?