A
Abba
Guest
I just found a little time to once again participate in this thread. I had left all my research open since my last post so I can have them available for reference. Well, I did listen to a good portion of Revelations of Divine love by Julian of Norwich while I scrubbed the floor and did some cleaning. It is available in audio for free online. I will say, I don’t know how I ended up in this thread as there are saints that I am currently really into and are keeping me occupied. Alas, here I am.
No feminist problem:
I just want to add some small comments. Firstly, someone said that she may have been a feminist and certainly feminist try to twist Julian of Norwich’s words to present her as such. However, her references to God as a mother is as it is all over the Old Testament. I don’t see any problems at all, even God Himself used the analogy of Himself as a mother (and in the NT) to express His love. So, I detect no feminist complications in Julian of Norwich with her reference and explanations of God’s love for as the love of a mother. Actually, God uses that so that we can understand and get an inkling of how much He loves us. But, God loves us so much - if we were to experience some of His love for each and everyone of us - our hearts would exploded inside of us.
Another reference I read here was that Julian of Norwich may have been wealthy and I think that is also stated in a link someplace I read (wiki?). However, in her on words Julian states that she was poor and not well educated and she had to learn and teach herself in order to write about her experience. Furthermore, the person who edited her writings also edited the writings of a famous saint (I don’t remember her name right now). The implication also is that she was educated and wealthy - ‘therefore’ - a feminist. All three claims are untrue.
Now, regarding her statement that ‘all shall be well’ people are taking this out of context and present her in doing so as some kind of heretic which she was not. Much to the contrary, she was a pious woman and everything she did and wrote she left it to the Church to judge. People take her state of ‘all shall be well’ to justify a variety of things, including that perhaps hell is not eternal. This maneuvering is also done with the Bible when people take things out of context.
Pope Benedict XVI in the a link provide above states:
"If God is supremely good and wise, why do evil and the suffering of innocents exist? And the Saints themselves asked this very question. Illumined by faith, they give an answer that opens our hearts to trust and hope: in the mysterious designs of Providence, God can draw a greater good even from evil, as Julian of Norwich wrote: “Here I was taught by the grace of God that I should steadfastly hold me in the Faith … and that … I should take my stand on and earnestly believe in … that ‘all manner of thing shall be well”’ (The Revelations of Divine Love, Chapter 32).
Yes, dear brothers and sisters, God’s promises are ever greater than our expectations. If we present to God, to his immense love, the purest and deepest desires of our heart, we shall never be disappointed. “And all will be well”, “all manner of things shall be well”: this is the final message that Julian of Norwich transmits to us and that I am also proposing to you today. Many thanks."
‘all will be well’ in the context it was stated and in harmony with; the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I actually like her and when and if I get sometime I would like to read her writings and enjoy it. Right now I am into Saint Francis de Sales and Saint Anthony Mary de Claret. They are keeping me busy.
Blessings to all.
P.s. Oh, and one more thing, I was just reading about John the 23rd and in one of his statements he as a matter of fact speaks of God’s love in comparison to the love of a mother for her child. This does not make him a feminists. Thank you for reading.
P.p.s. Another thing, I understand that when people are growing spiritually they come upon certain questions that are provocative. It is not such a bad thing to consider out of an abundance of compassion for our brothers and sisters that even perhaps those in hell will someday come out. It is not a crime to think this, I think these questions come up in a mind that is growing and exploring. The Church has provided the answer but it’s okay for the question to rise in the mind - it is not a crime for this to happen nor does it make a person a heretic. I think it is good when and that people think.
Very much aside from that - Julian of Norwich was not a heretic but maybe misunderstood or misused by people who lack understanding. In a positive light, she is quoted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and is written about by a Pope - doesn’t sound like a heretic to me.
No feminist problem:
I just want to add some small comments. Firstly, someone said that she may have been a feminist and certainly feminist try to twist Julian of Norwich’s words to present her as such. However, her references to God as a mother is as it is all over the Old Testament. I don’t see any problems at all, even God Himself used the analogy of Himself as a mother (and in the NT) to express His love. So, I detect no feminist complications in Julian of Norwich with her reference and explanations of God’s love for as the love of a mother. Actually, God uses that so that we can understand and get an inkling of how much He loves us. But, God loves us so much - if we were to experience some of His love for each and everyone of us - our hearts would exploded inside of us.
Another reference I read here was that Julian of Norwich may have been wealthy and I think that is also stated in a link someplace I read (wiki?). However, in her on words Julian states that she was poor and not well educated and she had to learn and teach herself in order to write about her experience. Furthermore, the person who edited her writings also edited the writings of a famous saint (I don’t remember her name right now). The implication also is that she was educated and wealthy - ‘therefore’ - a feminist. All three claims are untrue.
Now, regarding her statement that ‘all shall be well’ people are taking this out of context and present her in doing so as some kind of heretic which she was not. Much to the contrary, she was a pious woman and everything she did and wrote she left it to the Church to judge. People take her state of ‘all shall be well’ to justify a variety of things, including that perhaps hell is not eternal. This maneuvering is also done with the Bible when people take things out of context.
Pope Benedict XVI in the a link provide above states:
"If God is supremely good and wise, why do evil and the suffering of innocents exist? And the Saints themselves asked this very question. Illumined by faith, they give an answer that opens our hearts to trust and hope: in the mysterious designs of Providence, God can draw a greater good even from evil, as Julian of Norwich wrote: “Here I was taught by the grace of God that I should steadfastly hold me in the Faith … and that … I should take my stand on and earnestly believe in … that ‘all manner of thing shall be well”’ (The Revelations of Divine Love, Chapter 32).
Yes, dear brothers and sisters, God’s promises are ever greater than our expectations. If we present to God, to his immense love, the purest and deepest desires of our heart, we shall never be disappointed. “And all will be well”, “all manner of things shall be well”: this is the final message that Julian of Norwich transmits to us and that I am also proposing to you today. Many thanks."
‘all will be well’ in the context it was stated and in harmony with; the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I actually like her and when and if I get sometime I would like to read her writings and enjoy it. Right now I am into Saint Francis de Sales and Saint Anthony Mary de Claret. They are keeping me busy.
Blessings to all.
P.s. Oh, and one more thing, I was just reading about John the 23rd and in one of his statements he as a matter of fact speaks of God’s love in comparison to the love of a mother for her child. This does not make him a feminists. Thank you for reading.
P.p.s. Another thing, I understand that when people are growing spiritually they come upon certain questions that are provocative. It is not such a bad thing to consider out of an abundance of compassion for our brothers and sisters that even perhaps those in hell will someday come out. It is not a crime to think this, I think these questions come up in a mind that is growing and exploring. The Church has provided the answer but it’s okay for the question to rise in the mind - it is not a crime for this to happen nor does it make a person a heretic. I think it is good when and that people think.
Very much aside from that - Julian of Norwich was not a heretic but maybe misunderstood or misused by people who lack understanding. In a positive light, she is quoted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and is written about by a Pope - doesn’t sound like a heretic to me.
