Kavanaugh endorsement rescinded

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PetraG said:
Let’s contrast Judge Thomas’ reaction when he had his turn before the Senate Committee:


He was obviously angry and even disgusted, but he was extremely dignified in his own self-defense.

(By the way, I would point out that neither a black nor a woman could get away with the lack of self-control exhibited by Judge Kavanaugh. He played right into the stereotype that a lifetime of privilege has given him a sense of entitlement to behave in ways that others clearly cannot.)
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The meaning of “dignified” is very subjective, and you are including only a small part of his testimony.

Here is the text of what Thomas said:
Senator, I would like to start by saying unequivocally, uncategorically, that I deny each and every single allegation against me today that suggested in any way that I had conversations of a sexual nature or about pornographic material with Anita Hill, that I ever attempted to date her, that I ever had any personal sexual interest in her, or that I in any way ever harassed her.
… A second, and I think more important point, I think that this today is a travesty. I think that it is disgusting. I think that this hearing should never occur in America. This is a case in which this sleaze, this dirt, was searched for by staffers of members of this committee, was then leaked to the media, and this committee and this body validated it and displayed it at prime time over our entire nation. How would any member on this committee, any person in this room, or any person in this country, would like sleaze said about him or her in this fashion? Or this dirt dredged up and this gossip and these lies displayed in this manner? How would any person like it?
…The Supreme Court is not worth it. No job is worth it. I’m not here for that. I’m here for my name, my family, my life and my integrity. I think something is dreadfully wrong with this country when any person, any person in this free country would be subjected to this.
…This is not a closed room. There was an FBI investigation. This is not an opportunity to talk about difficult matters privately or in a closed environment. This is a circus. It’s a national disgrace. And from my standpoint as a black American, as far as I’m concerned, it is a high-tech lynching for uppity blacks who in any way deign to think for themselves, to do for themselves, to have different ideas, and it is a message that unless you kowtow to an old order, this is what will happen to you. You will be lynched, destroyed, caricatured by a committee of the US Senate rather than hung from a tree.
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Continued…
 
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…I’ve heard enough lies. Today is not a day that in my opinion is high among the days in our country. This is a travesty. You spent the entire day destroying what it has taken me 43 years to build, and providing a forum for that.
…Senator, I didn’t create it in people’s minds. This matter was investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in a confidential way. It was then leaked last weekend to the media. I did not do that. And how many members of this committee would like to have the same scurrilous, uncorroborated allegations made about him, and then leaked to national newspapers, and then be drawn and dragged before a national forum of this nature to discuss those allegations that should have been resolved in a confidential way.
…Senator, Senator, there is a big difference between approaching a case objectively and watching yourself being lynched. There is no comparison whatsoever.
…Senator, I would not want to – except being required to here – to dignify those allegations with a response. As I have said before, I categorically deny them. To me, I have been pilloried with scurrilous allegations of this nature, I have denied them earlier, and I deny them tonight.
…This whole affair bothers me, Senator. I am witnessing the destruction of my integrity.
…Senator, as I indicated this morning, it just isn’t worth it. The nomination isn’t worth it, being on the Supreme Court isn’t worth it. There is no amount of money that’s worth it. There is no amount of money that can restore my name. Being an associate justice of the Supreme Court will never replace what I have been robbed of. I wouldn’t recommend that anyone go through it.
…I think the country has been hurt by this process. I think we are destroying our country, we are destroying our institutions, and I think it’s a sad day when the US Senate can be used by interest groups and hate mongers and people who are interested in digging up dirt to destroy other people, and who will stop at no tactics when they can use our great institutions for their own political ends. We are gone far beyond McCarthyism. This is far more dangerous than McCarthyism. At least McCarthy was elected.

Continued…
 
…I repeat what I said. I have been hurt by this, deeply, and nothing is worth going through this. This has devastated me. It’s devastated my family. It’s untrue. They’re lies. I have hundreds of women who have worked with me. You can call them. Dozens who worked closely with me on personal staff. You can call them. You can bring them up, give them as much air time as you’ve given this one, one person with uncorroborated, scurrilous lies and allegations. Give them as much time. See what they say.
…But it’s not just that, Senator. It’s more that’s happened. You are ruining the country. If it can happen to me, it can happen to anybody, anytime, over any issue. Our institutions are being controlled by people who will stop at nothing. They went around this country looking for dirt, not information on Clarence Thomas, dirt. Anybody with any dirt. Anything. Late night calls. Calls at work. Calls at home. Badgering. Anything. Give us some dirt.

There isn’t much daylight between what Kavanaugh said and what Thomas did. There may be a difference in mannerisms, but to condemn one based upon expressions and animation is just a little disingenuous.
 
HarryStotle said:
There isn’t much daylight between what Kavanaugh said and what Thomas did. There may be a difference in mannerisms, but to condemn one based upon expressions and animation is just a little disingenuous.
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What did Thomas do? He sat in his chair and spoke in a low, controlled voice. He did not stand or yell. I’m sure he felt angry, but he held it in. He projected the image of a dignified man.

Kavanaugh did not.

Thomas didn’t lie and then tell more lies to cover up his previous lies. That is the problem with Kavanaugh, not the accusation of a woman that may or may not be true. She comes off, to me, as fairly credible, but I don’t deny there are red flags. And I don’t deny that Anita Hill was more credible. But Thomas projects the image of a Supreme Court justice; Kavanaugh projects the image of a teenage kid denied the keys to the car.
 
I agree. Not just disingenuous but kinda ridiculous. He is a bad judge because his voice was louder than Clarence, 😁. I’m glad they posted Thomas and we can stop pretending that Judges are expected to act the same way when they’re accused as they would in a case they were presiding over.
Senator, Senator, there is a big difference between approaching a case objectively and watching yourself being lynched. There is no comparison whatsoever.
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Indeed, Justice Thomas. Big difference, indeed.
 
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ConstantLearner said:
What did Thomas do? He sat in his chair and spoke in a low, controlled voice. He did not stand or yell. I’m sure he felt angry, but he held it in. He projected the image of a dignified man.
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The two men, Kavanaugh and Thomas are different people from different regions and different ages.

Men in an early age, might acted differently than both of them. In an earlier age in our history, Kavanaugh may have challenged one of his antagonists to a duel after being accused of vile crimes.

Standards and behaviors change over time.

An angry black man ripping Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd to shreds would not have gone over that well in 1991.
 
Rubee said:
I agree. Not just disingenuous but kinda ridiculous. He is a bad judge because his voice was louder than Clarence, 😁. I’m glad they posted Thomas and we can stop pretending that Judges are expected to act the same way when they’re accused as they would in a case they were presiding over.
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You conveniently “forgot” to mention the fact that Thomas didn’t lie and then lie to cover previous lies, ad nauseum.That’s the main difference between the two, and Thomas was accused far more aggressively and credibly than Kavanaugh.
 
You conveniently forgot the FACT that these are your assumptions and you have no proof for any of them.
 
Rubee said:
You conveniently forgot the FACT that these are your assumptions and you have no proof for any of them.
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No, I saw both Senate hearings on TV, Thomas’ and Kavanaugh’s. I know for a FACT Thomas didn’t lie and scream, and I know for a FACT Kavanaugh did.
 
ConstantLearner said:
You conveniently “forgot” to mention the fact that Thomas didn’t lie and then lie to cover previous lies,
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A lot of our liberals friends disagree with that assessment and contend that Thomas did lie during the confirmation process. I know that there is one congressional candidate pledging to try to impeach Thomas in 2019 if the Democrats win the House.
 
Augustinian said:
A lot of our liberals friends disagree with that assessment and contend that Thomas did lie during the confirmation process. I know that there is one congressional candidate pledging to try to impeach Thomas in 2019 if the Democrats win the House.
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I’m sure he’s not alone in his opinion. I think a lot of people believed Anita Hill.

Impeachment? They would face the same problems Dr. Ford faced, if she is, indeed, truthful. The long passage of time. It just wouldn’t fly. Not now. (Of course I said the Berlin Wall would not fall only about a week before it did, so I’m not good at predictions. My only defense is that I was quite young then, and that’s not a good defense. I was even living in Switzerland then, near the German border.)
 
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ConstantLearner said:
What did Thomas do? He sat in his chair and spoke in a low, controlled voice. He did not stand or yell. I’m sure he felt angry, but he held it in. He projected the image of a dignified man.
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Patently ridiculous.
What did Kavanaugh do? Did he stand and yell?
Did he jump up punch people’s lights out and call for the heads of Dem Senators on pikes?

Nope. He showed emotion in his voice and mannerisms, nothing more. That is all ascribable to different characters, nothing more. Read the bold-faced parts carefully.

Here is an excerpt of Kavanaugh’s testimony, with the entire testimony here:
Since my nomination in July, there’s been a frenzy on the left to come up with something, anything to block my confirmation. Shortly after I was nominated, the Democratic Senate leader said he would, quote, "oppose me with everything he’s got.’’ A Democratic senator on this committee publicly – publicly referred to me as evil – evil. Think about that word. It’s said that those who supported me were, quote, "complicit in evil.’’ Another Democratic senator on this committee said, quote, "Judge Kavanaugh is your worst nightmare.’’ A former head of the Democratic National Committee said, quote, "Judge Kavanaugh will threaten the lives of millions of Americans for decades to come.’'

I understand the passions of the moment, but I would say to those senators, your words have meaning. Millions of Americans listen carefully to you. Given comments like those, is it any surprise that people have been willing to do anything to make any physical threat against my family, to send any violent e-mail to my wife, to make any kind of allegation against me and against my friends. To blow me up and take me down.

You sowed the wind for decades to come. I fear that the whole country will reap the whirlwind. The behavior of several of the Democratic members of this committee at my hearing a few weeks ago was an embarrassment. But at least it was just a good old-fashioned attempt at Borking. Those efforts didn’t work. When I did at least OK enough at the hearings that it looked like I might actually get confirmed, a new tactic was needed.
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Continued…
 
Some of you were lying in wait and had it ready. This first allegation was held in secret for weeks by a Democratic member of this committee, and by staff. It would be needed only if you couldn’t take me out on the merits.

When it was needed, this allegation was unleashed and publicly deployed over Dr. Ford’s wishes. And then – and then as no doubt was expected – if not planned – came a long series of false last-minute smears designed to scare me and drive me out of the process before any hearing occurred.

Crazy stuff. Gangs, illegitimate children, fights on boats in Rhode Island. All nonsense, reported breathlessly and often uncritically by the media.

This has destroyed my family and my good name. A good name built up through decades of very hard work and public service at the highest levels of the American government.
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NOTHING like this was done to Thomas. There were allegations of sexual impropriety, and that is all.

Apples to oranges.

Now had the Senators at Thomas’ hearing called him “evil,” " your worst nightmare," smeared him and his family with a litany of “crazy stuff” like gang raping women, illegitimate children, and drummed up the media to instigate death threats to his family, I am pretty certain Thomas would have shown something other than sitting and taking it "with dignity."

This is a different world from even twenty years ago
 
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I remember both hearings. It was a thing whether you believed him or Anita, but the vitriol wasn’t really there. Not like it is now. Everything now is complete lunacy.
 
ConstantLearner said:
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Rubee:
I agree. Not just disingenuous but kinda ridiculous. He is a bad judge because his voice was louder than Clarence, 😁. I’m glad they posted Thomas and we can stop pretending that Judges are expected to act the same way when they’re accused as they would in a case they were presiding over.
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You conveniently “forgot” to mention the fact that Thomas didn’t lie and then lie to cover previous lies, ad nauseum.That’s the main difference between the two, and Thomas was accused far more aggressively and credibly than Kavanaugh.
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No, Thomas was NOT accused far more aggressively that Kavanaugh.

Read the texts of both testimonies.

Thomas was not called “evil,” “your worst nightmare,” nor that he would “threaten the lives of millions of Americans,” “a serial rapist,” had his family threatened with violence, nor smeared by virtually every newspaper and news program in the country.

But Kavanaugh was.

And your claim that he lied is merely your subjective opinion on the matter.
 
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ConstantLearner said:
Of course I said the Berlin Wall would not fall only about a week before it did, so I’m not good at predictions. My only defense is that I was quite young then
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A lot of people missed that. The thought was that the people of Eastern Europe loved tyranny much like Americans loved freedom and they would never forsake their beloved wall.

And that’s why I know that abortion is as settled as a lot of people think. Many thought the same of communism.
 
HarryStotle said:
In other words, you couldn’t see what was going on right below your nose. 🤔
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No, I had no interest in political things. I was perfecting my skill in one of the arts. not that it’s any of your business. I highly doubt that you can name all of the operas now being performed in the US without looking them up. I can. Different people have different interests. Some require all of one’s attention…
 
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Could we please have a return to Christian charity on this thread?
 
ConstantLearner said:
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HarryStotle:
And your claim that he lied is itself a lie because you are deliberately stating a falsehood, something that you do not know to be true with any actual certainty, merely your subjective opinion on the matter.
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I do know it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...tions-and-absurdities/?utm_term=.93cd7a8a5669
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Okay, so it wasn’t merely your opinion, it was also someone else’s.

That doesn’t equate to anything like knowing.

I guess you missed the place where the piece was labeled “OPINION.”
 
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