Killing Your Kids

wabrams · Feb 8, 2005

Brad:

Why is it that Norwich, Matt25, webrams, and Richardols feel the need to change the subject here? Rather than address the question of whether legalized abortion has had an impact in increasing women killing their post-born children, you talk about other reasons that contribute to violent crime.

I agree with you that there are other reasons besides abortion that have contributed to violent crime.

However, the question is much more narrow than that and it seems you all want to dodge the question - in other words perhaps you want to keep abortion legal?

I hope that is not the case. Please clarify.

No one is changing the subject. All we have been doing is showing you that abortion in our culture isn’t making these looney mothers kill there young children. According to a good chunk of your posts all over this forum, everything from bad tv to anti-war protesters is caused by abortion. I’m in the mortgage business and it’s slow right now, you think it’s because of abortions?

BTW, I, too, think abortions should be illegal to answer your original question.

AmyS · Feb 8, 2005

Richardols:

Not I - I belong to Democrats For Life, but America wants to keep it legal. A majority of Americans do want to have some access to abortion, and even the former Attorney General called it “the law of the land.” Even in the unlikely situation of a reversal of Roe v Wade, it’ll just mean that legal abortion will be less available.

I know you are new here, but, I have posted the statistics on here more than once that “Americans want abortion” is not true… The statistics are changing… not completely, but, now 51% don’t want it, that is the majority though.

Richardols · Feb 8, 2005

AmyS:

I know you are new here, but, I have posted the statistics on here more than once that “Americans want abortion” is not true… The statistics are changing… not completely, but, now 51% don’t want it, that is the majority though.

Depends on the question asked. It is my understanding that while many Americans are opposed to the unlimited on-demand no controls abortions that are now available, they still want it to be legal, if limited.

Even George Bush doesn’t want to eliminate all abortion.

AmyS · Feb 8, 2005

Lance:

If one week before her due date the mother goes in and get a partial birth abortion where the baby is out of the womb except for it’s head and a doctor punctures it’s head and sucks the brains out that is legal, if she waits a week and has the baby at home and stuffs it in a garbage bag to sufficate that is murder. I can see where the confusion comes in.
In the eyes of the Church and God they are both murder.

We have had so many of these case in the county I work for… My county even plays into their excuses… We had a seventeen year old who stabbed her newborn daughter in the chest with scissors murdering her get probation for five years… People actually tried to justify her sentence. She left that baby in her bathroom to die and her mom took her to the hospital to get checked up… The mom knew what happend and left the 14 year old sister there to clean up after the baby. The hospital called for medical aid for the baby…

Brad · Feb 8, 2005

Richardols:

Not I - I belong to Democrats For Life, but America wants to keep it legal. A majority of Americans do want to have some access to abortion, and even the former Attorney General called it “the law of the land.” Even in the unlikely situation of a reversal of Roe v Wade, it’ll just mean that legal abortion will be less available.

Again, this is not the issue. The issue is whether Catholics want it to be illegal, not America. In any event, the majority of Americans want it severely legally restricted.

Brad · Feb 8, 2005

Richardols:

Lies directed against America? No truth in it at all, huh?

I suppose that reporting any sort of violence on our shores is anti-american propaganda.

You suppose incorrectly. I know the difference between rehashed propaganda and honest seeking of truth. I know plenty of things America has done wrong. Making abortion legal is one of them.

Brad · Feb 8, 2005

rlg94086:

Brad,

I don’t know what the statistics are or if they even exist, but I have noticed the increase in the news. I also do think that life issues have something to do with it. Did you see the irony in the reporting of the case where a fetus…er, baby…uh, fetus…was ripped from that poor mother’s womb by another woman who wanted the baby? The press didn’t know what to call the baby. They are so wrapped up in their pro-abortion sentiments, they get confused.

God Bless,

Robert.

I don’t know if anyone has statistics. I was trying to determine general impression. I think it makes sense myself. I’m amazed at how many want to discount it out of hand.

I know what you mean with the press. Similar confusion occurred with the Peterson situation. I think they are confused by the father of lies.

Michael_C · Feb 8, 2005

AmyS:

We have had so many of these case in the county I work for… My county even plays into their excuses… We had a seventeen year old who stabbed her newborn daughter in the chest with scissors murdering her get probation for five years… People actually tried to justify her sentence. She left that baby in her bathroom to die and her mom took her to the hospital to get checked up… The mom knew what happend and left the 14 year old sister there to clean up after the baby. The hospital called for medical aid for the baby…

This has to be the saddest post I’ve read on these forums. This si so bad on so many levels. What the hell is wrong with that grandmother?..

Brad · Feb 8, 2005

wabrams:

Yeah, at home. I’ll look them up tonight.

Ok. I’ll be waiting.

Richardols · Feb 8, 2005

Brad:

Again, this is not the issue. The issue is whether Catholics want it to be illegal, not America. In any event, the majority of Americans want it severely legally restricted.

I agree that the majority of Americans want it severely limited. As a Catholic, I’d like it to be abolished, but I’m also a realist. It won’t ever be abolished in America, so I can work to make it unnecessary or highly restricted. As a Catholic, I also would like America to be converted to Catholicism, but as a realist, I know that won’t happen either.

Lisa4Catholics · Feb 8, 2005

Michael C:

This has to be the saddest post I’ve read on these forums. This si so bad on so many levels. What the hell is wrong with that grandmother?..

I agree:nope: Abortion advocates will tell you had it been done at an abortion mill the seventeen year old the fourteen year old or the grandma wouldn’t have had to go through this:banghead: Choice my hide!!!

Matt25 · Feb 8, 2005

ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/children.htm

Homicide trends in the U.S.
Infanticide

Code:

     **The number          of homicides of children under age 5 increased over the past two decades          but declined recently**

    **To          view data, click on the chart.**

     [ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/kids.gif](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/kidstab.htm)[[D]](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_kids.htm)

     ****While the incidence of infanticide has increased, 
     the rates have remained fairly stable****

     Infanticide rates for --

black children have recently declined, reaching the lowest level recorded in 2002
white children have remained stable

children of other racial groups have remained stable

Code:

   **To          view data, click on the chart.**

   [ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/kidsrates.gif](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/kidsratestab.htm)[[D]](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_kidsrates.htm)        

   ****The younger the child, the greater the risk for infanticide****

            Through the early 1990's, the number of infanticides of children age            1 and younger has increased while the number for older children has            remained relatively constant. The number of infanticides of children            younger than age 1 declined in the early 1990's and then stabilized.

                   **To          view data, click on the chart.**

   [ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/kidsage.gif](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/kidsagetab.htm)[[D]](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_kidsage.htm)

   ****A parent is the perpetrator in most homicides of children under age          5****

   **To          view data, click on the chart.**

   [ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/kidsrel.gif](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/kidsreltab.htm)[[D]](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_kidsrel.htm) 

             Note: Parents includes stepparents.                 Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2002 --

31% were killed by fathers
30% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
6% were killed by other relatives

3% were killed by strangers

Code:

            Of those children killed by someone other than their parent, 82% were          killed by males. 

                              ** Relationship, 1976-2002

** Gender of
offender Parent Other family Friend/
Acquaintance Stranger Unknown Male 4,727 675 3,484 404 284 Female 4,563 360 630 22 88 Most of the children killed are male and most of the offenders are male

AmyS · Feb 8, 2005

Michael C:

This has to be the saddest post I’ve read on these forums. This si so bad on so many levels. What the hell is wrong with that grandmother?..

I over heard a conversation of some of the Leutients I work with and one was saying “It was her baby, and her decision” I, of course, had to pipe up and say something… What a stupid thing to say.

Brad · Feb 8, 2005

wabrams:

No one is changing the subject. All we have been doing is showing you that abortion in our culture isn’t making these looney mothers kill there young children. According to a good chunk of your posts all over this forum, everything from bad tv to anti-war protesters is caused by abortion. I’m in the mortgage business and it’s slow right now, you think it’s because of abortions?

BTW, I, too, think abortions should be illegal to answer your original question.

I’m glad you think they should be illegal. The posters were changing the subject. I wasn’t blaming anti-war protestors, bad TV, or looneys on abortion. I was suggesting a link between mothers killing their post-born children and legalized abortion. It seems to me these types of “loonies” are picking up over the past 30 years.

My theory is not illogical as you make it seem to be. Notice other posts on this thread that demonstrate it’s logic.

There have always been looneys - tis true. I just wonder if the completely unnatural process of mothers killing their kids was so prevalent. I’ll see what you history book says.

Brad · Feb 8, 2005

Richardols:

I agree that the majority of Americans want it severely limited. As a Catholic, I’d like it to be abolished, but I’m also a realist. It won’t ever be abolished in America, so I can work to make it unnecessary or highly restricted. As a Catholic, I also would like America to be converted to Catholicism, but as a realist, I know that won’t happen either.

Never say never. With God, all things are indeed possible.

Michael_C · Feb 8, 2005

AmyS:

I over heard a conversation of some of the Leutients I work with and one was saying “It was her baby, and her decision” I, of course, had to pipe up and say something… What a stupid thing to say.

Good for you. Speaking up for the truth is important.

Brad · Feb 8, 2005

Matt25 said:

ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/children.htm

Homicide trends in the U.S.
Infanticide

Code:

     **The number          of homicides of children under age 5 increased over the past two decades          but declined recently**

    **To          view data, click on the chart.**

     [ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/kids.gif](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/kidstab.htm)[[D]](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_kids.htm)

     ****While the incidence of infanticide has increased, 
     the rates have remained fairly stable****

     Infanticide rates for --

black children have recently declined, reaching the lowest level recorded in 2002
white children have remained stable

children of other racial groups have remained stable

Code:

   **To          view data, click on the chart.**

   [ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/kidsrates.gif](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/kidsratestab.htm)[[D]](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_kidsrates.htm)        

   ****The younger the child, the greater the risk for infanticide****

            Through the early 1990's, the number of infanticides of children age            1 and younger has increased while the number for older children has            remained relatively constant. The number of infanticides of children            younger than age 1 declined in the early 1990's and then stabilized.

                   **To          view data, click on the chart.**

   [ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/kidsage.gif](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/kidsagetab.htm)[[D]](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_kidsage.htm)

   ****A parent is the perpetrator in most homicides of children under age          5****

   **To          view data, click on the chart.**

   [ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/kidsrel.gif](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/kidsreltab.htm)[[D]](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_kidsrel.htm) 

             Note: Parents includes stepparents.                 Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2002 --

31% were killed by fathers
30% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
6% were killed by other relatives

3% were killed by strangers

Code:

            Of those children killed by someone other than their parent, 82% were          killed by males. 

                              ** Relationship, 1976-2002

** Gender of
offender Parent Other family Friend/
Acquaintance Stranger Unknown Male 4,727 675 3,484 404 284 Female 4,563 360 630 22 88 Most of the children killed are male and most of the offenders are male

Interesting. What would be more interesting is the statistics on mothers killing their kids prior to say, 1960.

Lisa4Catholics · Feb 8, 2005

Brad:

Never say never. With God, all things are indeed possible.

Brad is right.The reason we are in the mess we are in is due largely to our little faith in God.God Bless

Norwich · Feb 8, 2005

INRI:

People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones…

Your right of course, Europes past was nothing to be proud of. Past acts have created great wrongs in the world, but, there is one difference. Most Europeans are willing to accept responsibility for those acts and have tried over recent years to put the problems behind them, they don’t (as a general rule) constantly try to justify themselves, they hold their hands up and admit wrong doing.

I pointed up other areas where the culture of murder and killing in America may come from, what happened? somebody actually crowed about “Liking my Gun” and then you wonder why people take life so easily? Tell me, where is the need for a gun in the Catholic Church? You rail against a single issue, abortion, but condone many other areas of killing, how can you justify that? You talk about how children must be protected, then have films and television showing death and destruction on a massive scale totally desensitising your kids, how can you justify that?

I make a quote from GB Shaw and am accused of anti Americanism but, you were blind to the fact that the comment was made by another, namely GB Shaw, was he anti American? and if so why? Could it be that many people are anti American, if so why? For those that don’t like to look at themselves they immediately go on the defensive, “I don’t listen to them their just anti American” some are more realistic and may start to question why so many people are criticising them, "maybe there is some truth to what is being said".

If this woman is shown in a court of law to be legally responsible for her childs death, then the punishment of the courts should be imposed but, it is for the courts to judge, not me, not you, not anyone. In the fullness of time she will also have to face Gods judgement and that is something none of us can speculate on.

As for abortion, some of the women take that route as an easy answer, others because they know no different and many in shear desperation. I do not and will not condone abortion, it is an anathema to God and man alike and yes, it is murder in the eyes of the Church but, what I will not do is prejudge womens reasons for seaking an abortion, they are too many and too varied. In their eyes it is not as simple as you like to make it and God forbid I should ever be in the position of some of these people in having to make that choice. Fortunately now I never will be but, I still have children and grandchildren and I fear for them as much as I fear for any woman or child placed in a position of having to make such an impossible choice.

If you’ve never been there I suggest you get on your knees and thank God instead of trying to be his judge and jury.

Richardols · Feb 8, 2005

Brad:

Never say never. With God, all things are indeed possible.

I agree. But, possible doesn’t mean probable. Nevertheless, every restriction of abortion is a step forward.

Killing Your Kids

wabrams

Guest

AmyS

Guest

Richardols

Guest

AmyS

Guest

Brad

Guest

Brad

Guest

Brad

Guest

Michael_C

Guest

Brad

Guest

Richardols

Guest

Lisa4Catholics

Guest

Matt25

Guest

AmyS

Guest

Brad

Guest

Brad

Guest

Michael_C

Guest

Brad

Guest

Lisa4Catholics

Guest

Norwich

Guest

Richardols

Guest