Kissing on the lips during the sign of peace

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RoseMary131 said:
I think the Church has not made an exact statement describing the exact manner in which the sign of peace is exchanged.

Individuals are interpreting it to mean 1) kiss, 2) no kiss, 3) etc.

**None of the posts on this thread **seem to say “I don’t care what the Church says, I’ll do what I want.”

Some people seem to say “I don’t care what your interpretation is, my interpretation is this.”
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:thumbsup:exactly.
 
RoseMary131 said:
The congregation is not expect to research “how to attend Mass”. I will trust my priests to let us know if we are to change how to participate in Mass.
  1. Priests do not give often detailed homilies etc on the various rubrics of the Mass.
  2. Priests can also get into trouble for going against the rubrics of the Mass and whole documents get issued by the Holy See to correct such…
3.There is depths upon depths to go into regarding the nature of the Mass and the various Rites.
  1. Often Priests do not correct the smaller things …
Did you discuss this during marriage prep or with your priest after the wedding? Did you discuss this during baptismal classes?
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The Priest who celebrated our wedding Mass and witnessed our exchange of vows would have agreed with what I have noted. One does not get into such matters during such prep.

PS: I have a degree in Theology from Franciscan University of Steubenville and my wife has a degree in Theology from a Pontifical Institute in Europe.
 
Phemie said:
So the general consensus seems to be “I don’t care what the Church says, I’ll do what I want.”
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No, I’m reading that people have a different opinion on what constitutes a “sober manner”.

If the Church wants us to follow a strict interpretation of what it means, she should close that loophole and define it.

I live in the French-speaking part of Canada, and we may have a different interpretation of what that constitutes. Plenty of kisses and hugs between spouses in the pews around me.

Liturgically, I don’t think this is the fight to pick. Clearly there are enough liturgical abuses that are in open defiance to the Missal and SC, that an intentional or unintentional grey area over how to give the sign of the peace should be a minor concern.
 
Bookcat said:
The Priest who celebrated our wedding Mass and witnessed our exchange of vows would have agreed with what I have noted. One does not get into such matters during such prep.

PS: I have a degree in Theology from Franciscan University of Steubenville and my wife has a degree in Theology from a Pontifical Institute in Europe.
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Have you asked this priest if he agrees with no kiss as an exchange of the Sign of Peace during Mass?

One can bring up a number of topics during marriage prep… including “may we exchange a kiss as a Sign of Peace during Mass”.

While earning your degrees in Theology, did you and your wife learn that a kiss is not allowed during the Sign of Peace at Mass?

My daughter has a degree in Theology from a wonderful Catholic University as well. She kisses her husband and children, and me and her dad and siblings at the Sign of Peace.
 
RoseMary131 said:
H

GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF THE ROMAN MISSAL

"The Rite of Peace
  1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."
That is the short of it.

Peace be with you RoseMary! 🙂
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Does having a degree in Theology make us some type of “super Catholic”? :confused:

Forgive me, but I can’t figure out what having a degree in anything has to do with how to properly conduct yourself at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. 🙂
 
The main thing I was getting at is that the sign of peace is not a time for expression of “marital affection” or romantic embraces or kisses.

It is Liturgical sign of peace. Part of a rite.

It expresses communion within the Church and the Theological virtue of Charity --as one prepares for Holy Communion.

Now that is going to differ from place to place as noted in the GIRM

GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF THE ROMAN MISSAL

"The Rite of Peace
  1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."

-------------------------------------That is the short of it.

And there may even be time where it is mandated by the Bishop for it to not be done in a particular manner -like handshake during a bad flu season. etc
 
Lormar said:
Does having a degree in Theology make us some type of “super Catholic”? :confused:

Forgive me, but I can’t figure out what having a degree in anything has to do with how to properly conduct yourself at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. 🙂
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I added the degrees in Theology to note that we are not just coming from left field. The other person wanted to know if we had heard such from a Priest. Such is not necessary.

(nor is it necessary to have a background in Theology of course to discuss such of course).
 
The main thing I was getting at is that the sign of peace is not a time for expression of “marital affection” or “romantic signs”.

It is Liturgical sign of peace. Part of a rite.

It expresses communion within the Church and the Theological virtue of Charity --as one prepares for Holy Communion.

Now that is going to differ from place to place as noted in the GIRM

GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF THE ROMAN MISSAL

"The Rite of Peace
  1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."

---------------------------------------That is the short of it.

And there may even be time where it is mandated by the Bishop for it to not be done in a particular manner -like handshake during a bad flu season. etc
 
Bookcat said:
GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF THE ROMAN MISSAL

"The Rite of Peace
  1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html
What is expressed?

Family love on the biological level? No that is not the meaning.

Martial love? No that is not the meaning of the rite.

**Then what is expressed by that RITE? **

“the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament”

How is it expressed?

“the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples.”

And note too – in a “sober manner”

and “only to those who are nearest to them”.
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The sign for peace has not yet been established by the Conference of bishops in the United States. Noting that the sign is to be given “in a sober manner” does not exclude a kiss. If I use the sign of a kiss when giving the kiss of peace to my husband, I am not showing a sign of marital affection. My mind is on Christ. and it is Christ’s peace that I give. We need to be careful not to judge the intention of the way others share the sign of peace. If the Conference of Bishops ever chooses a singular sign, I hope it is not the handshake. Handshakes given by some people can cause excruciating pain to those of us with arthritis.
 
Phemie said:
So the general consensus seems to be “I don’t care what the Church says, I’ll do what I want.”
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Not at all.

First, the Church doesn’t say specifically what we should do in the OF.

Second, the double kiss on the cheeks is the prescribed way to exchange the sign in the EF (High Mass).

There’s as much, or more, evidence for a kiss being the appropriate gesture as there is for the handshake.

God Bless
 
Lormar said:
Does having a degree in Theology make us some type of “super Catholic”? :confused:

Forgive me, but I can’t figure out what having a degree in anything has to do with how to properly conduct yourself at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. 🙂
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Book Cat had expressed that he and his wife both have degrees in Theology and they interpret that there should be no kiss as an exchange during the Sign of Peace.

I expressed my daughter had a Theology degree and she does exchange the Sign of Peace with a kiss. I wasn’t describing her as a “Super Catholic” (although she likes to dress as a super hero).

My point was “those with degrees in Theology interpret things differently, too.”
 
Bookcat said:
The main thing I was getting at is that the sign of peace is not a time for expression of “marital affection” or romantic embraces or kisses.
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Can you tel me, please, who in this thread has advocated “marital affection” or “romantic kisses” or anything of the sort? :confused:
Bookcat said:
It is Liturgical sign of peace. Part of a rite.
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Yes … and at the risk of [post=11403934]redundancy[/post], the fact is that the Novus Ordo rubrics are non-specific except to say “sober” but even that itself is non-specific. And unfortunately, the rubrics or specification for a “ritual kiss” simply do not exist in the Novus Ordo. If it did, this thread wouldn’t exist, would it?
Bookcat said:
And there may even be time where it is mandated by the Bishop for it to not be done in a particular manner -like handshake during a bad flu season. etc
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And? :confused:
 
Phemie said:
So the general consensus seems to be “I don’t care what the Church says, I’ll do what I want.”
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How do you get this interpretation? The general consensus seems to be: The Church does not dictate the precise manner in which we are to exchange a sign of peace. Since that is the case, individuals and free to use prudence in deciding for themselves an appropriate manner with which to exchange peace, within the broad parameters given by the Church.
 
malphono said:
Can you tel me, please, who in this thread has advocated “marital affection” or “romantic kisses” or anything of the sort? :confused:

:
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If a husband and wife are kissing on the lips - and then turning and extending hands or a bow to those around them…that can be said to be expressing a “marital affection” in that kiss.

I think it can be argued that those who kiss at this time their spouses are doing so as more of a kind of marital affection not a sign of ecclesial communion or the Theological virtue of Charity.

And how others would view it around them.
 
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