Kissing on the lips during the sign of peace

[Havard]

In my opinion the best way for this to be resolved is for the bishops to determine “the sign”

Yep.

 

[zab]

Sorry to hear that. Ouch… I won’t shake your hand. But you didn’t tell me what is best if you are next to me… so, I’ll follow your cue in Mass… which is what I normally do… sometimes I start to shake someone’s hand and it turns into a hug because I was going to shake and they were going to hug or kiss me on the cheek… I just roll with it.

I edited my previous post to say that I would probably extend my hand. What I have been doing lately that seems to work for me- to prevent my fingers from being squeezed too tightly, is to grab their fingers rather than put my whole hand in theirs. Not everyone squeezes so tightly but I never can tell who will be the next to do it.

 

[Phemie]

I thought it was implemented at Advent 2011? At least that’s what the CCCB website says. We only had a minor translation change in 2011, from “nous rendons gloire à Dieu” after the first two readings, to “nous rendons grâce à Dieu”, a more faithful translation of “Deo gratias”. I’m not aware of any other translations for the moment, the AELF website says nothing about a new missal translation in French, but recently the liturgical translation of the Bible was completed and published.

No, the French translation of the Roman Missal has not been published.

The French PGMR (Présentation Générale du Missel Romain) received the recognitio back on May 2, 2006 & July 11, 2007 (Prot. 401/06/L) and AELF published it back in 2008 as a book called “L’art de célébrer la Messe”.

It includes an 8 page insert “Les adaptations canadiennes” which as its first item states "

Les adaptations canadiennes à la PGMR ont reçu la recognitio de la Congrégation pour le culte divin et la discipline des sacrements le 11 février 2011 et le 14 juillet 2011 (Prot. N. 386/10/L). Cette recognitio porte sur le texte anglais seulement; la version française des adaptations ne la recevra que lors de la parution du Missel Romain, édition canadienne.

As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, the new French Roman Missal is expected in 2015.

 

[FAB]

I kiss my husband on the lips at mass during the offering of the sign of peace. Is this wrong to do? I never thought of it as wrong, because I don’t consider kissing my husband overly PDA and because Ive kissed and hugged all my family during the sign of the peace ever since I was a little girl. This is all I know. My parents hugged and kissed me and all my brothers etc and now I do the same with my husband, except I kiss him on the lips. Ive never paid attention around me to see if others do it too. Maybe this is a cultural thing? I really don’t know, this is the first time I’ve ever contemplated this.

Honey bee,
Kiss your husband, and don’t feel bad about it. Your in a sacramental marriage and it is a sign of love and your tradition.
When I am not on the altar serving, I always kiss my wife.

Deacon Frank

 

[RoseMary131]

Honey bee,
Kiss your husband, and don’t feel bad about it. Your in a sacramental marriage and it is a sign of love and your tradition.
When I am not on the altar serving,** I always kiss my wife. **

Deacon Frank

 

[Havard]

Honey bee,
Kiss your husband, and don’t feel bad about it. Your in a sacramental marriage and it is a sign of love and your tradition.
When I am not on the altar serving, I always kiss my wife.

Deacon Frank

What does being in a sacramental marriage have to do with it?

Your response does seem to contradict the CAF Apologist, Michelle Arnold’s answer. Specifically, “To hug one’s children, kiss one’s spouse, and then turn and nod and exchange handshakes and peace signs with others, indicates the levels of affection you feel toward others. In other words, you are singling out some people for more lavish displays of affection than others, when the Eucharist is supposed to signify our mutual communion in Christ.”

I am all for showing affection to one’s spouse, but I don’t see where you put forth an explanation for doing so during this time of the liturgy.

 

[landon13]

In my family, we shake hands and then give that one armed hug and maybe kiss each other on the cheek. We still say the “peace be with you” but then we do this.

I find nothing wrong with it. Make sure you still give the sign of peace but a small kiss should be fine

 

[RoseMary131]

Your response does seem to contradict the CAF Apologist, Michelle Arnold’s answer. Specifically, “To hug one’s children, kiss one’s spouse, and then turn and nod and exchange handshakes and peace signs with others, indicates the levels of affection you feel toward others. In other words, you are singling out some people for more lavish displays of affection than others, when the Eucharist is supposed to signify our mutual communion in Christ.”

What you left out of the post by CAF Apologist, Michelle Arnold is:

While the Church does not explicitly forbid PDAs during the rite of peace, prudence suggests that a “sober” exchange of peace with one’s fellow congregants excludes hugging and kissing family members.

This apologist has suggested that “sober” exchange excludes hugging and kissing family members. While also stating that the Church does not explicitly forbid such signs.

Others will suggest something different based on the fact “sober” exchange is not defined by the Church…

 

[FAB]

What does being in a sacramental marriage have to do with it?

Your response does seem to contradict the CAF Apologist, Michelle Arnold’s answer. Specifically, “To hug one’s children, kiss one’s spouse, and then turn and nod and exchange handshakes and peace signs with others, indicates the levels of affection you feel toward others. In other words, you are singling out some people for more lavish displays of affection than others, when the Eucharist is supposed to signify our mutual communion in Christ.”

I am all for showing affection to one’s spouse, but I don’t see where you put forth an explanation for doing so during this time of the liturgy.

My community starts with my wife and embracing my children. We start with the domestic church and the love that is nurtured and grows there, in a sacramental marriage and then come to the larger community and are part of the mutual communion of Christ. I disagree with Michelle Arnold, since I believe the outward sign of affections shown by a family and married couples in and out of mass show needed and important signs of the importance of marriage to others. Deacon Frank

 

[HoneyBea]

Wow, OK so I just woke up to all these messages! Interesting thread and great replies. Thanks everyone. I have learned so much.

In case anyone is wondering, I will still be kissing my husband this Sunday and I know I will not be judged for doing so. : )

 

[HoneyBea]

Never said it did.

It is though not intended as a sign of family or spousal affection.

What is IS the meaning of the RITE?

“the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament”

(I have seen European Monks kiss each other’s cheeks…I am not ruling out a liturgical kiss)

Its true this is all so subjective, because what you consider “spousal affection” such as a kiss–I may not. A kiss to me can mean so many things depending on who I am kissing, when I am kissing them, and why I am kissing them. I already explained that I greet all my friends with a kiss and their spouses as well, this is how I say hello. Yes, a kiss for me can also be a sign of affection and it also can be a sign of foreplay etc. It can mean many different things under different circumstances and cultures. Also, what I consider to be “spousal affection” would most definitely not be appropriate during mass

 

[JimG]

My community starts with my wife and embracing my children. We start with the domestic church and the love that is nurtured and grows there, in a sacramental marriage and then come to the larger community and are part of the mutual communion of Christ. I disagree with Michelle Arnold, since I believe the outward sign of affections shown by a family and married couples in and out of mass show needed and important signs of the importance of marriage to others. Deacon Frank

I see what you are saying here. It does though, in effect, turn the sign of peace into mainly a sign between family members rather than an acknowledgement of our ecclesial community with others. And it leaves the single, divorced, and widowed in a sense separated from the community as expressed in the sign of peace as a mini-family event.

That’s why it seems to me that the intended liturgical significance of the sign of peace has actually been changed by the way it is practiced.

 

[ProVobis]

… since I believe the outward sign of affections shown by a family and married couples in and out of mass show needed and important signs of the importance of marriage to others.

Fine and good. But there are others in church who come alone who might like for you to extend your hospitality. Are they all second-class citizens? And whom exactly are you trying to impress by showing these public displays of affection? I know I’m not. Seems like members of your own family know you already.

I see what you are saying here. It does though, in effect, turn the sign of peace into mainly a sign between family members rather than an acknowledgement of our ecclesial community with others. And it leaves the single, divorced, and widowed in a sense separated from the community as expressed in the sign of peace as a mini-family event.

That’s why it seems to me that the intended liturgical significance of the sign of peace has actually been changed by the way it is practiced.

You said it better than I.

 

[HoneyBea]

Fine and good. But there are others in church who come alone who might like for you to extend your hospitality. Are they all second-class citizens? And whom exactly are you trying to impress by showing these public displays of affection? I know I’m not. Seems like members of your own family know you already.

You said it better than I.

I dont think anyone is trying to impress anyone. That remark struck me as odd but, OK. If I were to extend my hand to my husband during the sign of the peace that would be so awkward. He would look at me like I was crazy and probably pull me in for a kiss anyways. I dont think I have ever shook my husbands hand except to make a bet and even then I make him kiss both our hands to seal the bet. If shaking my husbands hand is not a sign of peace for us then why should I shake his hand during the sign of peace? For us shaking hands means a bet has been sealed, I’m not taking bets during mass. Sorry.

 

[ProVobis]

For us shaking hands means a bet has been sealed, I’m not taking bets during mass. Sorry.

You started the thread and this is the point you wanted to make? I don’t think anyone even remotely suggested bets taking place during Mass.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I see what you are saying here. It does though, in effect, turn the sign of peace into mainly a sign between family members rather than an acknowledgement of our ecclesial community with others. And it leaves the single, divorced, and widowed in a sense separated from the community as expressed in the sign of peace as a mini-family event.

That’s why it seems to me that the intended liturgical significance of the sign of peace has actually been changed by the way it is practiced.

I’ve never really thought about this but there have been times I’ve waited for people around me to get around to everyone in their family or to their friends before someone extends the sign of peace to me. I’m not going to barge in and the only thing I can do is appear ready to offer a sign of peace but at least once I felt like a pariah because the Mass had moved on and oh, well…

I don’t mind that couples kiss or hug (and I don’t recall seeing anything inappropriate or uncomfortable) but it would be nice if this sign would radiate outside of the family unit or others, such as friends, that we are already tight with.

 

[HoneyBea]

You started the thread and this is the point you wanted to make? I don’t think anyone even remotely suggested bets taking place during Mass.

Yes, this is one of many points I wanted to make, that’s the point of this thread. Is it not? Various people making different points. I never implied anyone was suggesting bets taking place during mass. I was simply explaining my point of view and what a handshake means between my husband and I, as you can see its all very subjective.
If you are still confused I would be happy to clarify some more

 

[HoneyBea]

I’ve never really thought about this but there have been times I’ve waited for people around me to get around to everyone in their family or to their friends before someone extends the sign of peace to me. I’m not going to barge in and the only thing I can do is appear ready to offer a sign of peace but at least once I felt like a pariah because the Mass had moved on and oh, well…

I don’t mind that couples kiss or hug (and I don’t recall seeing anything inappropriate or uncomfortable) but it would be nice if this sign would radiate outside of the family unit or others, such as friends, that we are already tight with.

I have also waited around for others to finish giving the sign of peace to those around them both family and parishioners. You comment made me chuckle, because I too have often stood their with my hand extended and no one reciprocated as the mass had moved on. Awkward for a second but yeah oh well lol

 

[shialinane]

i feel very few traditions accept lip kissing as anormal wahiy of expressing peace and friendship. here in zambia lip kissing is only a preserve of the married and can only be allowed in a private place. other than that it is immoral. on medicsl point of view. lip kissing can aid transmission of cough infections and syphillis. to me a hand shake or hug is fair.

 

[Brendan_64]

So what about the lady who hugs her spouse, and the man next to her, and the woman behind her?

She eventually ends up in a pew with just herself and her husband, everyone else having chosen to sit somewhere else in future.