Know Anyone Victimized By Abortion Industry?

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I like that, Chris:
“judging others, casting the first stone, making erroneous presumptions about others’ spiritual lives”
We agree.👍
 
Because in a spontaneous abortion which is a miscarriage a natural death, no in is pulling apart another’s limbs one by one or drilling a hole behind another’s head to have their brains sucked out. Abortion is murder.

I find your idea of calling a fetus unhuman very disturbing. I see that you have no idea of what you are talking about. A child’s heart is fully grown by age three weeks that is before a woman finds out she is pregnant his brain is functioning by 4-5weeks brain stem is working around 5-6 weeks (this is how we as humans feel pain by the way) at nine weeks he has ten toes and ten fingers. You may wonder how I know this, it is because I counted my child’s ten tiny fingers and toes after I miscarried her. She was a human and for you to tell a mother that she was not is the most heartless thing I have ever heard. Those who spout the lie of pro choice have no idea of who they killing nor do they care.

Lets try to think before we say heartless things next time.
 
Because in a spontaneous abortion which is a miscarriage a natural death, no in is pulling apart another’s limbs one by one or drilling a hole behind another’s head to have their brains sucked out. Abortion is murder.

I find your idea of calling a fetus unhuman very disturbing. I see that you have no idea of what you are talking about. A child’s heart is fully grown by age three weeks that is before a woman finds out she is pregnant his brain is functioning by 4-5weeks brain stem is working around 5-6 weeks (this is how we as humans feel pain by the way) at nine weeks he has ten toes and ten fingers. You may wonder how I know this, it is because I counted my child’s ten tiny fingers and toes after I miscarried her. She was a human and for you to tell a mother that she was not is the most heartless thing I have ever heard. Those who spout the lie of pro choice have no idea of who they killing nor do they care.

Lets try to think before we say heartless things next time.
I like to think of it this way;

There was a time in America when an entire group of people were unjustly labeled as non-humans and refused human rights and protection, simply for the convenience of plantation owners who didn’t want to pick their own cotton.

I’m beginning to see a pattern here.
 
So the original debate was…
Is it reasonable to say that people can be “victims” of the abortion industry, or are people who have abortions all completely aware of exactly what they do and are therefore wholly bad and unforgivable?

So far all I’ve seen is that if a person has had an abortion at any time in the past, for any reason, they should not be forgiven, ever. Further, if a person feels another person could be forgiven if they repent but know they are unqualified to pass judgment, then they are automatically labeled not pro-life and are therefore just as evil as the first person. Also if the person who had an abortion, has a slight mental disorder, whether by virtue of the guilt from abortion itself or by natural causes, prevents her from fully experiencing the emotion of guilt, then she is unrepentant and therefore condemned.
There is only one being capable of understanding this and qualified to make a judgment.
Anyone care to guess who that is?
 
So the original debate was…
Is it reasonable to say that people can be “victims” of the abortion industry, or are people who have abortions all completely aware of exactly what they do and are therefore wholly bad and unforgivable?

So far all I’ve seen is that if a person has had an abortion at any time in the past, for any reason, they should not be forgiven, ever. Further, if a person feels another person could be forgiven if they repent but know they are unqualified to pass judgment, then they are automatically labeled not pro-life and are therefore just as evil as the first person. Also if the person who had an abortion, has a slight mental disorder, whether by virtue of the guilt from abortion itself or by natural causes, prevents her from fully experiencing the emotion of guilt, then she is unrepentant and therefore condemned.
There is only one being capable of understanding this and qualified to make a judgment.
Anyone care to guess who that is?
Women have been victimized by abortionists. Do you want me to go and find stories where women were drugged or restrained so unwanted abortions could be performed?
 
Women have been victimized by abortionists. Do you want me to go and find stories where women were drugged or restrained so unwanted abortions could be performed?
Blame the family/spouse/whoever-else requested this. I’m pretty sure an “abortionist” has more interesting things to do than kidnap people & do this stuff.
  • This is kidnaping. It’s a crime. They are not abused by abortioists, they are abused by their families who want to get rid of the children & use ILLEGAL measures to solve the “problem”.
    Make abortion illegal, this BS would still happen.
 
Women have been victimized by abortionists. Do you want me to go and find stories where women were drugged or restrained so unwanted abortions could be performed?
Have you actually read anything I’ve posted here?
My only opinion on this is people* can* be victims, not always, but it’s possible. Further,the only judgment I am qualified to bestow on another human being is that God, and only God knows enough about a person to forgive them. People can be repentant and you and I wouldn’t know. It’s not our place to decide if a person is forgiven or not. Period.
 
Women have been victimized by abortionists. Do you want me to go and find stories where women were drugged or restrained so unwanted abortions could be performed?
I put my money on the probability that there are fewer victims of abortion than the original poster would have us believe. I have known scores of women who have had abortions and not one of them was drugged and dragged to the “abortion mill” against her will. Each woman made her own choice, as desperate or sad or complex as it may have been, and each woman walked in and walked out of her own free will.

I also know that many, many women would like to present themselves as victims, having been strong-armed into submitting to the abortionist; when in fact they are too ashamed, too guilty or too afraid to admit that they made this decision on their own. There are countless scenarios that support this possibility.

This is not to say that coercion does not play a part in some pregnancies that end in abortion, but the drug 'em and drag 'em business is B-movie stuff. Where are the parasitic attorneys when this is going down? This would be a litigation feast! I just don’t buy widespread victimization.

Women who believe they have been victimized should seek legal assistance and be able to support their claims with specifics. Otherwise, it’s “he said, she said”.

capt
 
I put my money on the probability that there are fewer victims of abortion than the original poster would have us believe.
The number of innocent lives victimized by abortion in America stands at over 50,000,000 since 1973, and that number increases by 3,000 daily.
 
I’m posting this thread to help anyone who has been the victim of forced abortions or has been victimized by abortionists. If you know anyone who has been victimized, please help me to help them.

The Thomas More Society is a pro-life law firm that can help these victims take legal action against abortionists who victimize people. Here’s their e-mail address:

info@thomasmoresociety.org

Please give this e-mail address to anyone who needs help pursuing legal action against these killers.
This is your original post, Mr/Ms LaRock. It does not specifically address the 50 mil embryos lost to abortion. It reads as if you are instead addressing living women (and perhaps men) who have suffered because of abortion. So your response to my post #126 is a rather transparent, half-baked end-run around your original offer to “help”. Since you can’t help fallen embryos, what do you propose to do for the living survivors of abortion?

capt
 
This is your original post, Mr/Ms LaRock. It does not specifically address the 50 mil embryos lost to abortion. It reads as if you are instead addressing living women (and perhaps men) who have suffered because of abortion. So your response to my post #126 is a rather transparent, half-baked end-run around your original offer to “help”. Since you can’t help fallen embryos, what do you propose to do for the living survivors of abortion?

capt
I just got back from viewing PFL’s website.

Amazing! Embryos have fully developed arms, legs, bodies, internal organs, and facial features? I had no idea.

priestsforlife.org/images/index.htm#galleries

But all of your thinly veiled insults aside, I think it’s important to help women who have been victimized to seek legal help. Even if it’s rare for these things to happen, we shouldn’t pretend they don’t.

You are obviously pro-abort and wouldn’t understand our position anyway. You have allowed yourself to buy into the pro-choice lies and distortions. I’d suggest you research this better.
 
I just got back from viewing PFL’s website.

Amazing! Embryos have fully developed arms, legs, bodies, internal organs, and facial features? I had no idea.

priestsforlife.org/images/index.htm#galleries

But all of your thinly veiled insults aside, I think it’s important to help women who have been victimized to seek legal help. Even if it’s rare for these things to happen, we shouldn’t pretend they don’t.

You are obviously pro-abort and wouldn’t understand our position anyway. You have allowed yourself to buy into the pro-choice lies and distortions. I’d suggest you research this better.
I daresay I have the edge on you, having had one surgical abortion and two spontaneous abortions. What more research need be done? I know exactly what transpired in each case. I also understand first-hand live birth, having experienced that myself and having had to wait and wait and wait for the doctors to even refer to the APGAR scores out loud because my infant was so traumatized by a low forceps delivery.

I have not “bought into” any company line, sir (or miss or madam or whatever). I developed my opinion through several decades of female fertility, including errors in calculation, sexual assault and rape, four conceptions and, above all, the freedom to choose what I wanted and needed to do with my body in my particular circumstances. How dare you even suggest that I do more research!

I understand your position. I do not agree with your methods or your attitude. And I will not be dismissed because my experiences and conclusions do not match yours.

You claim to believe it’s important to “help women who have been victimized to seek legal help.” I’ve asked you directly what you mean by that. You have failed to answer again and again. Abortion is legal in the U.S. A woman who seeks an abortion has to sign documents agreeing to the procedure - there are no grounds for filing after the fact unless a procedure is performed in someone’s bathroom or garage. If health problems ensue as a result of an abortion the cause is likely non-compliance on the part of the woman, if she has intercourse or is coerced into intercourse before her body has had a chance to recover. We are advised not to have intercourse for six weeks after a procedure. Some decide to blow that off and do whatever they want, and then show up on the clinic doorstep enraged or in tears because they have an infection.

If abortion becomes illegal again then you can “help” these women who have had to made this decision. Until then, work through the faith and not the bullhorn.

capt
 
Women have been victimized by abortionists. Do you want me to go and find stories where women were drugged or restrained so unwanted abortions could be performed?
Yes. Yes, I would like to read a minimum of six legitimate, current, documented news items (not stories) on or in an agreed-upon secular medium which details** real** women who were really drugged or really restrained. I want to know who performed the abortions - first and last names and where they can be found to corroborate the evidence. I want to hear directly from the women’s mouths that they were forced to undergo these procedures. Let’s have coffee over the court transcripts - it will be ever so enlightening! :coffeeread:

Six. 🙂 Legitimate. :o News items. 😦

Secular news sources. :mad:

capt
 
I daresay I have the edge on you, having had one surgical abortion and two spontaneous abortions. What more research need be done? I know exactly what transpired in each case. I also understand first-hand live birth, having experienced that myself and having had to wait and wait and wait for the doctors to even refer to the APGAR scores out loud because my infant was so traumatized by a low forceps delivery.

I have not “bought into” any company line, sir (or miss or madam or whatever). I developed my opinion through several decades of female fertility, including errors in calculation, sexual assault and rape, four conceptions and, above all, the freedom to choose what I wanted and needed to do with my body in my particular circumstances. How dare you even suggest that I do more research!

I understand your position. I do not agree with your methods or your attitude. And I will not be dismissed because my experiences and conclusions do not match yours.

You claim to believe it’s important to “help women who have been victimized to seek legal help.” I’ve asked you directly what you mean by that. You have failed to answer again and again. Abortion is legal in the U.S. A woman who seeks an abortion has to sign documents agreeing to the procedure - there are no grounds for filing after the fact unless a procedure is performed in someone’s bathroom or garage. If health problems ensue as a result of an abortion the cause is likely non-compliance on the part of the woman, if she has intercourse or is coerced into intercourse before her body has had a chance to recover. We are advised not to have intercourse for six weeks after a procedure. Some decide to blow that off and do whatever they want, and then show up on the clinic doorstep enraged or in tears because they have an infection.

If abortion becomes illegal again then you can “help” these women who have had to made this decision. Until then, work through the faith and not the bullhorn.

capt
So, killing your own children makes you an expert on abortion? You freely consented, so that means everyone else consents freely?

Not all women consent to abortion. Tell that to the 16 year old girl whose parents are taking her to an abortion clinic against her will. Tell that to the woman whose husband/boyfriend beats her up or threatens to kill her if she doesn’t abort. tell that to the woman whose doctor lies to her about her unborn child’s health just to sell an abortion.

And I will answer your question AGAIN.

I want to help women who have been victimized by giving them the resources to seek legal action against the people who victimized her.

How can you call yourself Catholic and support abortion anyway??? Even cults like the mormons and jehovah’s witnesses have enough of a conscience not to.

It just sickens me that people who think like you do are helping to murder over 3, 000 babies daily. That’s like a 9/11 style attack happening every day.
 
Yes. Yes, I would like to read a minimum of six legitimate, current, documented news items (not stories) on or in an agreed-upon secular medium which details** real** women who were really drugged or really restrained. I want to know who performed the abortions - first and last names and where they can be found to corroborate the evidence. I want to hear directly from the women’s mouths that they were forced to undergo these procedures. Let’s have coffee over the court transcripts - it will be ever so enlightening! :coffeeread:

Six. 🙂 Legitimate. :o News items. 😦

Secular news sources. :mad:

capt
you can google them. there are quite a few.

by current, are you saying forced abortions that took place 20 years ago aren’t important any more?
 
So, killing your own children makes you an expert on abortion? You freely consented, so that means everyone else consents freely?

Not all women consent to abortion. Tell that to the 16 year old girl whose parents are taking her to an abortion clinic against her will. Tell that to the woman whose husband/boyfriend beats her up or threatens to kill her if she doesn’t abort. tell that to the woman whose doctor lies to her about her unborn child’s health just to sell an abortion.

And I will answer your question AGAIN.

I want to help women who have been victimized by giving them the resources to seek legal action against the people who victimized her.

How can you call yourself Catholic and support abortion anyway??? Even cults like the mormons and jehovah’s witnesses have enough of a conscience not to.

It just sickens me that people who think like you do are helping to murder over 3, 000 babies daily. That’s like a 9/11 style attack happening every day.
My abortion was permitted by law. As a woman, I have the intelligence, the knowledge and the freedom to decide for myself what is right for me in my life, my relationships, my faith. Evidently, the God you claim to worship is faulty because He does not listen to the contrite heart, nor does He forgive. If you want to align yourself with such an incomplete higher power, that’s up to you.

A 16-year-old who is pregnant and does not want an abortion can enlist the help of a friend’s parents, a guidance counselor, a priest, a minister, a therapist - any one of these individuals would be an impartial third party and would help to support her argument to her parents. If the girl believes she is old enough to be a parent, then she is old enough to live on her own and should do so. She can file a petitiion for emancipation. She can seek help through her community. She can physically fight her parents and refuse to go with them - not many parents are up to stuffing their pregnant 16-year-old in the car. Please provide an actual example of this happening. I would like to speak with this young woman and find out how the story concluded. A parent would threaten to kill his child if she did not kill her child? That’s pretty far out. And a doctor deliberately giving a patient deceitful information just to sell an abortion . . . ?! Where does this doctor practice? In the United States? Where? Who was the mother?

*“I want to help women who have been victimized by giving them the resources to seek legal action against the people who victimized her.” * So you say. And may I ask yet again just how you intend to do this? What are the resources you intend to provide? Money? Are you Wells Fargo? Legal advice? Have you passed the bar? Prayer? You don’t have to speak with them to pray for them. The whole thing seems a little voyeuristic to me.

“How can you call yourself Catholic and support abortion anyway???” you cry. Again, I am not a practicing Catholic. I left the Catholic Church about 15 years before you were born.

capt
 
you can google them. there are quite a few.

by current, are you saying forced abortions that took place 20 years ago aren’t important any more?
Number 1, I’m not going to do your homework for you.

Number 2, “forced abortions” that took place within the last 20 years are easier to document and cross-reference.

capt
 
My abortion was permitted by law. As a woman, I have the intelligence, the knowledge and the freedom to decide for myself what is right for me in my life, my relationships, my faith. Evidently, the God you claim to worship is faulty because He does not listen to the contrite heart, nor does He forgive. If you want to align yourself with such an incomplete higher power, that’s up to you.

(But when you have an abortion, you are making a choice that ends the life of another human being. It’s not just a matter of you deciding to do something with your own body. Another person’s body is also involved. permitted by law or not, it’s still murder and violates GOD’S law. But you can argue that with Him yourself when you meet him. It’s pride and selfishness that leads people to kill another person and justify it by pointing to some secular law, or by saying it’s their choice to do so.)

A 16-year-old who is pregnant and does not want an abortion can enlist the help of a friend’s parents, a guidance counselor, a priest, a minister, a therapist - any one of these individuals would be an impartial third party and would help to support her argument to her parents. If the girl believes she is old enough to be a parent, then she is old enough to live on her own and should do so. She can file a petitiion for emancipation. She can seek help through her community. She can physically fight her parents and refuse to go with them - not many parents are up to stuffing their pregnant 16-year-old in the car. Please provide an actual example of this happening. I would like to speak with this young woman and find out how the story concluded. A parent would threaten to kill his child if she did not kill her child? That’s pretty far out. And a doctor deliberately giving a patient deceitful information just to sell an abortion . . . ?! Where does this doctor practice? In the United States? Where? Who was the mother?

(Google it. It happens)

*“I want to help women who have been victimized by giving them the resources to seek legal action against the people who victimized her.” * So you say. And may I ask yet again just how you intend to do this? What are the resources you intend to provide? Money? Are you Wells Fargo? Legal advice? Have you passed the bar? Prayer? You don’t have to speak with them to pray for them. The whole thing seems a little voyeuristic to me.

“How can you call yourself Catholic and support abortion anyway???” you cry. Again, I am not a practicing Catholic. I left the Catholic Church about 15 years before you were born.

(Then what is your purpose for posting on a catholic forum?)

capt
 
Rebecca (USA)
September 02, 2003

About 25 years ago, the unthinkable happened to me… a forced abortion to one who was dead-set against abortion.

I dated a man, for about 2 months, whom I had doubts about. I told him that our values and goals were far too different, and that we should break up. He fell to the ground, shaking and gasping uncontrollably, almost like a seizure. I felt sorry for him, and continued to date him for a month.

In that next month, I became pregnant, against all odds. As I was against pre-marital sex, we had only begun to “fool around.” I was also on the birth control pill, as my high school biology teacher had warned us of “pregnant virgins.”

In the meantime, I suffered a concussion, and was x-rayed, uncovered, unleaded, with multiple exposures, in addition to an uncovered CAT scan. I was advised by the doctor to have a “therapeutic abortion” due to massive x-ray exposure, which had harmed the fetus.

I was against abortion.

The boyfriend, who had already evidenced his instability when he fell to the ground trembling, now became more unstable and abusive, threatening to kill the baby and me if I had it. I told him I would leave the state. He said he had ways to find us, and would track us down. I tried desperately to find a home for unwed mothers.

Meanwhile, the boyfriend scheduled an abortion at a clinic. I told the clinic I did not want the abortion.

The clinic counselor told me the baby was not a baby, and that it was the size of my fingernail. I told her I had studied biology, and that my fetus was several inches long. She gave me no support, and had no clue.

Anyone with a computer or internet access now can view the size of a 4.5-month-old fetus. It is, indeed, inches long, and can often survive outside the womb at 20 weeks.

The clinic also told me that I was 14 weeks pregnant, not almost 20. They incorrectly told me that my 2-day spotting in my second month was a period. It was not. It was breakthrough bleeding, as I had continued the birth control pill. And it was the week I didn’t take the pill. Therefore, I spotted.

I was nearly 20 weeks pregnant, and the baby was moving inside me, turning. The uninformed clinic counselor told me my baby was not turning. To this day, I know that my baby was turning, as this is a common event at 20 weeks.

I searched for help. This was before the internet. I found nothing. I even went to a Catholic church, to find someone to take me in, but all the doors were locked. Not even the rectory was open.

I locked myself in the bathroom, at home, refusing to get the abortion. The boyfriend took the door down, from the outside, unscrewing it bit by bit, until he took it off the hinges. He was taking me to the abortion clinic whether I wanted to go, or not.

I had nowhere to go, no one to turn to. I considered the damaged fetus being unadoptable. (I had wanted to give the baby up for adoption.)

The women, at the clinic undergoing abortions, were so nonchalant. Abortion seemed like a method of birth control to them. They laughed at me because I was crying. I thought of ways to escape out the back door, but my boyfriend had threatened to hunt us both down and kill us.

I had the abortion, and woke up laughing hysterically, as, yes, I was hysterical. The nurse slapped my face.

When the boyfriend-murderer got me home, he said, and I quote, “Now you know what it feels like to be hurt.” Then he laughed — what I would call a blood-chilling, evil laugh. Like that is funny, to kill someone’s baby? How ignorant. How cruel. How mentally ill.

I almost died from septic poisoning from the abortion.

I left the boyfriend.

Over the years, I had numerous surgeries, blocked tubes, etc. I never had children, as I was rendered infertile for years. When I finally got pregnant with a wonderful, loving husband, I was too old, and miscarried the little one.

My advice for anyone with a forced abortion is: Do not give up. Go to the police, if necessary.

If I were to do this over, I would go to a police station for protection. And you know what? Leave the state.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that he was just intimidating me. He probably would never have found me had I gone to a home for unwed mothers out of state.

Above all, forced abortion, and threats of murder to both mother and child, are all illegal in the United States.

Remember this. I still cry myself to sleep some nights. The pain does not go away with the passage of time. It only is latent, deadened.
 
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