Lack of Desire

[searching06]

So I have to ask, as you appear to be very familiar with the details of NFP - *what are my wife and I missing here?! *Where do we need to look within NFP to figure out what we’re doing wrong? Is there such a thing as being too cautious (as it seems we are) based on her “physical signs” she checks to tell us if we’re “safe”? If there is help here, we have a few years of catching up to do!

The Church doesn’t teach that “if you cannot afford to get pregnant then you must use NFP”…

NFP is only information.
Before science revealed the details of NFP, married couples would choose to abstain completely if they felt they could not handle more children. NFP is a gift that allows married couples to have marital relations (which is an integral part of a strong marriage) when they’d otherwise choose to be celebate.

Reading your posts… I would say your largest problem is your particular work/schedule situation and a realationship issue between you and your wife… not the NFP.

Let me pose some other questions…
How long have you used NFP?
Was this a conversion from using artificial BC in the past?
Has this problem been ongoing, or is it fairly new (in recent years)?

My basic point is… there are MANY of us who use NFP that are enjoying marital relations many, many times a month.

It’s NOT the NFP that’s a problem… I guarantee.

 

[Em_in_FL]

So I have to ask, as you appear to be very familiar with the details of NFP - *what are my wife and I missing here?! *Where do we need to look within NFP to figure out what we’re doing wrong? Is there such a thing as being too cautious (as it seems we are) based on her “physical signs” she checks to tell us if we’re “safe”? If there is help here, we have a few years of catching up to do!

Good question!

What type of NFP are you using? (most people here are only familiar with one certain type of NFP)… sympto-thermal? Creighton?
How long does your wife’s “fertile time” tend to be?

It sounds from your post that you’re most likely using mucous signs only… does she take her temperature as well to determine the end of the fertile phase?

On average… a normal cycle (normal meaning she IS menstruating on a regular basis) will begin with Phase I (starting with the period and ending with the first physical signs of fertility) which usually lasts 4 to 12 days (it can vary). Phase 2 is the fertile phase and ends when you have a significant temperature rise cross-referenced with physical signs diminishing, and can last anywhere from 4 to 12 days (again, varies)… and Phase 3 is entirely infertile… lasting anywherer from 8 to 16++ days.

So, given an average, normal cycle… the number of days available, if you wish to avoid conception, should range anywhere from 12 to 30+++ days… many more opportunities than ONCE a month.

Does that sound about right for your wife???

I DO highly suggest getting some updated NFP training too!

 

[searching06]

Looks like we have work to do! I know she checks physical signs and takes a temp, and her cycle is somewhat normal. We hit that mid 40s range. Her fertile time tends to be, or seems to be, rather long. But this may be because we are intimate so infrequently. I know we do not have, or again it sure seems we do not have, even an eight day infertile period, definitely not 16! I can only wish! Thank you very much - please keep us in your prayers.

Good question!

What type of NFP are you using? (most people here are only familiar with one certain type of NFP)… sympto-thermal? Creighton?
How long does your wife’s “fertile time” tend to be?

It sounds from your post that you’re most likely using mucous signs only… does she take her temperature as well to determine the end of the fertile phase?

On average… a normal cycle (normal meaning she IS menstruating on a regular basis) will begin with Phase I (starting with the period and ending with the first physical signs of fertility) which usually lasts 4 to 12 days (it can vary). Phase 2 is the fertile phase and ends when you have a significant temperature rise cross-referenced with physical signs diminishing, and can last anywhere from 4 to 12 days (again, varies)… and Phase 3 is entirely infertile… lasting anywherer from 8 to 16++ days.

So, given an average, normal cycle… the number of days available, if you wish to avoid conception, should range anywhere from 12 to 30+++ days… many more opportunities than ONCE a month.

Does that sound about right for your wife???

I DO highly suggest getting some updated NFP training too!

 

[Mirdath]

So, cynic - bitter much? cough

I doubt it’ll help you much, but I promise you, you are wrong. Everyone wants to love AND be loved, unless something is quite wrong mentally, emotionally or physically. Maybe some relationships go sour that way, and both men AND women sometimes display the cooling-off you seem to think is exclusively female - but hardly all. I do hope you change your ridiculous presumptions about the sexes, because they’re probably harming you and others.

Anyway yes indeed, searching06, it does sound like you two have lots of catching up to do, about NFP, the romance (and sex!), and how the Church is just fine with you two relaxing and enjoying life together more and all that.* Yay for you both, hope things are much more wonderful!

*Note: Not Catholic and have no wish to be one, but I do respect the faith and those who practice it. Nobody should labor unnecessarily under the the weight of scrupulosity and such loneliness, and fortunately you do not have to.

 

[PennitentMan]

Men love/like women (when it’s pure and not just about the physical). Women want to BE LOVED. There’s a difference. Women tend not to be attracted towards the man, it’s more about feeling attractive. With age women tend to grow out of this need for affirmation, to feel complete and whole without the attentions of a man, so their interest in the romantic side of the relationship wanes. Most women would be quite happy if there were no ‘relations’ (outside of procreatioin) if they could know that their husband would still care about them and remain faithful. Us men have just got to accept it.

Well, from my personal experience, Cynic, you hit the nail on the head here.

I have been trying to put my own thoughts into words for a few days now, and here you sum up exactly what I wanted to say for so long.
Well said.

The man is always on the short end of this stick, and we just have to shut up and accept it. It Sucks!

And Mirdath, I think this goes very deep into women’s character. They always say never try to understand a women…well it’s because of traist like these that they say that.

I’m starting to think that women are sub-conscious manipulators. They could easliy forego intimacy knowing full well that their husbands crave it. If this was not so, then why are there a myriad of men posting echoing posts such as these.

PM

 

[Em_in_FL]

Well, from my personal experience, Cynic, you hit the nail on the head here.

I have been trying to put my own thoughts into words for a few days now, and here you sum up exactly what I wanted to say for so long.
Well said.

The man is always on the short end of this stick, and we just have to shut up and accept it. It Sucks!

And Mirdath, I think this goes very deep into women’s character. They always say never try to understand a women…well it’s because of traist like these that they say that.

I’m starting to think that women are sub-conscious manipulators. They could easliy forego intimacy knowing full well that their husbands crave it. If this was not so, then why are there a myriad of men posting echoing posts such as these.

PM

I understand your frustrations and I’m sorry you have to struggle with this…

But PLEASE don’t lump all “women” into the same category…
Not exactly fair.

Although… in my case… if I could learn this technique of “sub-conscious manipulating” maybe my husband would be interested in MORE intimacy…
(I’m kidding… I just have a running joke that I could be intimate 24/7 if he’d let me… LOL! )

Not all women are the same. Period.

 

[PennitentMan]

I understand your frustrations and I’m sorry you have to struggle with this…

But PLEASE don’t lump all “women” into the same category…
Not exactly fair.

Although… in my case… if I could learn this technique of “sub-conscious manipulating” maybe my husband would be interested in MORE intimacy…
(I’m kidding… I just have a running joke that I could be intimate 24/7 if he’d let me… LOL! )

Not all women are the same. Period.

I hope you are right, because I’m starting to believe this.

 

[litllulu]

From what I hear, if you want to be in the mood, you must create it yourself. When was the last time you brought your wife flowers, or a nighty? You have to be active and not passive!

 

[PennitentMan]

From what I hear, if you want to be in the mood, you must create it yourself. When was the last time you brought your wife flowers, or a nighty? You have to be active and not passive!

Let’s see:

I regularly buy Flowers, give back/neck/foot massages, Make her tea in the morning, make her tea at night, wash all the dishes, vacuum, scrub the bathroom on hands and knees, cooking, babysit a whole weekend for her to take a break, more flowers, romantic video nights, girl, I try!

 

[litllulu]

Let’s see:

I regularly buy Flowers, give back/neck/foot massages, Make her tea in the morning, make her tea at night, wash all the dishes, vacuum, scrub the bathroom on hands and knees, cooking, babysit a whole weekend for her to take a break, more flowers, romantic video nights, girl, I try!

Oh sorry PM I know you do that stuff! I forgot who I was talking to. I apolgize for that.

 

[PennitentMan]

Oh sorry PM I know you do that stuff! I forgot who I was talking to. I apolgize for that.

Hey, no worries Just a bit of frustrating…I probably shouldn’t even have posted here, I seem ot have a knack for deraililng threads

 

[litllulu]

Hey, no worries Just a bit of frustrating…I probably shouldn’t even have posted here, I seem ot have a knack for deraililng threads

PM your threads are always appreciated here. I actually like reading them! you are an interesting fella

 

[PennitentMan]

PM your threads are always appreciated here. I actually like reading them! you are an interesting fella

Thanks Litllulu, that’s sweet. I think I needed to hear that

 

[searching06]

24/7 and NFP - tell ne how!

I understand your frustrations and I’m sorry you have to struggle with this…

But PLEASE don’t lump all “women” into the same category…
Not exactly fair.

Although… in my case… if I could learn this technique of “sub-conscious manipulating” maybe my husband would be interested in MORE intimacy…
(I’m kidding… I just have a running joke that I could be intimate 24/7 if he’d let me… LOL! )

Not all women are the same. Period.

 

[PennitentMan]

24/7 and NFP - tell ne how!

Me too…actually, if you have that answer, market that, you’ll have tonns of catholic guys flowking to you, VISA in hand!

 

[Mirdath]

Well, from my personal experience, Cynic, you hit the nail on the head here.

I’m sorry your relationship (and evidently cynic’s) aren’t all you want them to be, but it just isn’t true.

And Mirdath, I think this goes very deep into women’s character. They always say never try to understand a women…well it’s because of traist like these that they say that.

I’m starting to think that women are sub-conscious manipulators. They could easliy forego intimacy knowing full well that their husbands crave it. If this was not so, then why are there a myriad of men posting echoing posts such as these.

If only every man had the experience of Tiresias…

I could hazard a guess as to why all the I-can’t-get-laid-enough posts are by men, but it’d just look like a feminist rant about how the patriarchy is keeping women used to being unassuming and submissive and we can’t very well have that, now can we? The disparity never ceases to amaze me – one would think from looking at thread titles that almost all the women on this board never enjoy sex and thus don’t care for it, or that satyriasis runs rampant among the male population of CAF.

 

[PennitentMan]

I could hazard a guess as to why all the I-can’t-get-laid-enough posts are by men, but it’d just look like a feminist rant about how the patriarchy is keeping women used to being unassuming and submissive and we can’t very well have that, now can we?

This assumption is just not true.
Speaking for good, practicing Catholic men, it’s not about sex. The way you stated this would immediately put us in a state of mortal sin since we would be objectifying our spouses.
We are speaking of intimacy. The Bonding together of two people. Affection, love and oneness…becoming one flesh…it’s not about sex…it’s about the desire to be intimate with your wife, to be close ot her.

It has nothing to do with feminism. It has everything to do with marriage.
Why is it that women never rant about this? It’s because they couldn’t care less about it. Intimacy for women is about sitting on the couch, watching a soppy movie with popcorn whilst getting your feet rubbed. (in my experience)
We slave away to give them their intimacy, their love, we do things for them out of love and yes we enjoy these things, we enjoy the time with them, it’s precious and valuable, but do you think the wifes can show us that they love us? With a very simple gesture of sexual intimacy inside the bonds of marriage, an outwardly show of affection and self-sharing is all we need.

Honestly, we are trying to be the best people we can be. We deny ourselves EVERYTHING for the sake of our marriage…how many other guys would just go and get a good sleazy porn DVD and get them selves off in this situation?
But us Practicing Catholic guys? No, we are on our knees praying for the Grace to not fall into temptation, to treat our wifes with the respect they deserve, to burry our frustration deep within us and get up and make them another cup of tea, or wash dishes, or get the massage oil, or letting her sleep in while you care for a baby at 4 am, or a myriad of things, instead of going into “those stores”

Do not assume that it’s about “I-can’t-get-laid-enough”. you are talking to Catholic Men here. We are trying our best to remain oure and sinless. Give us some credit for trying to find help and advice from the only, last place we know how…

PM

 

[Mirdath]

Why is it that women never rant about this? It’s because they couldn’t care less about it. Intimacy for women is about sitting on the couch, watching a soppy movie with popcorn whilst getting your feet rubbed. (in my experience)

In your experience being the critical words. Don’t assume all women do X just because that’s the way your wife is.

We slave away to give them their intimacy, their love, we do things for them out of love and yes we enjoy these things, we enjoy the time with them, it’s precious and valuable, but do you think the wifes can show us that they love us? With a very simple gesture of sexual intimacy inside the bonds of marriage, an outwardly show of affection and self-sharing is all we need.

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the royal ‘we’. You think your wife doesn’t do or sacrifice anything out of love for you? Is your marriage really so bizarre that it’s all about you trading favors for occasional sex? How is it not objectifying your spouse to think of her and indeed all women as a sort of machine into which you dump chocolate and roses until there’s enough in the hopper for her to have sex with you?

Do not assume that it’s about “I-can’t-get-laid-enough”. you are talking to Catholic Men here. We are trying our best to remain oure and sinless. Give us some credit for trying to find help and advice from the only, last place we know how…

I’m not assuming – I can see it very well with my own two eyes. I respect your struggle to remain faithful and chaste, but when one gets right down to it your complaint really is that you don’t get laid enough, and you’ve said as much in your post. I’m sorry your marriage hasn’t turned out to your liking, but your descent into misogyny is ignorant and offensive.

 

[Chris_G]

Mirdath,
It’s obvious you don’t understand what PM means by “intimacy”. And your constant labeling of it as a complaint of “getting laid” just illustrates his point that you indeed do fit right into the “all women do X” statement that you complained about.

Though I do disagree that “all women” can be categorized in any way, I do understand what PM meant by it. He was making a generalization, not intending that it be taken to such a literal extreme. I know what he is getting at.

It’s no secret that Soap Operas are by far more popular with women than they are with men. And what they portray it definitely NOT true intimacy.

 

[PennitentMan]

In your experience being the critical words. Don’t assume all women do X just because that’s the way your wife is.

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the royal ‘we’. You think your wife doesn’t do or sacrifice anything out of love for you? Is your marriage really so bizarre that it’s all about you trading favors for occasional sex? How is it not objectifying your spouse to think of her and indeed all women as a sort of machine into which you dump chocolate and roses until there’s enough in the hopper for her to have sex with you?

I’m not assuming – I can see it very well with my own two eyes. I respect your struggle to remain faithful and chaste, but when one gets right down to it your complaint really is that you don’t get laid enough, and you’ve said as much in your post. I’m sorry your marriage hasn’t turned out to your liking, but your descent into misogyny is ignorant and offensive.

“In my experience” means, not only myself in my own little world, but, as I stated, many numbers of men echoing my exact same thoughts feeling and findings - on this board, on others, and from what I have spoken to.

I can understand your want to defend the woman’s point of view, but aren’t you just defending your own dislike of sex and blaming it on the guys who “can’t get enough”? The door swings both ways you know, I have to ask…

My marriage is not bizarre, as you call it, it’s wonderful. And it’s not about trading favours at all…it’s part of the marriage vows. I am striving for a good, wholesome marriage. If something is lacking, we address it, no matter what it is.

Once again, you are assuming, from an non-catholic point of view that I “can’t get enough”. You also have to measure “enough” by certain standards, and again, it’s been echoed by several men. There certainly is a limit of frequency that sends off alarm bells. Once again, it’s not about my own sexual desires, that would be mortal sin, it’s about marriage, the vows and living the faith.
Part of being married is to be intimate…it that is denied, there is a problem. But, it’s just so easy for the woman to blame the guys: “Oh, he just wants sex all day! He just can’t get enough, I’m sick of it.” Well, I’m not going to be blamed for wanting what God promised us, life to the fullest…if something is lacking, I’m frick’n sure going to address it and try every option to rectify it.

And, if you feel the need to call me misogynistic, then feel free, I just call it like I (and many, many other guys) see it.