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PennitentMan
Guest
Sorry, I stand corrected
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PennitentMan
Guest
Searching06,
Sorry, I seem to have derailed the thread a litttle bit again It seems like the heated discussions have quieted down somewhat, so I hope you find the answers you are looking for on this forum. There are plenty of very intelligent people here to give you advice. God bless and good luck!
PM.
Sorry, I seem to have derailed the thread a litttle bit again
It seems like the heated discussions have quieted down somewhat, so I hope you find the answers you are looking for on this forum. There are plenty of very intelligent people here to give you advice. God bless and good luck!PM.
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cynic
Guest
Mirdath :
a womans wants/needs = natural and entirely reasonable
A man = dirty, animalistic and selfish.
Correct?
What is wrong with wanting ‘intimacy’ with your spouse? If I were married, we were both still young, and my wife said she categoriacally felt no attraction towards me, didn’t want me and we were never going to have ‘relations’ (or even a hug) again, then I would consider separation. Again that would be considered entirely an reasonable point of view if I were a woman.
a womans wants/needs = natural and entirely reasonable
A man = dirty, animalistic and selfish.
Correct?
What is wrong with wanting ‘intimacy’ with your spouse? If I were married, we were both still young, and my wife said she categoriacally felt no attraction towards me, didn’t want me and we were never going to have ‘relations’ (or even a hug) again, then I would consider separation. Again that would be considered entirely an reasonable point of view if I were a woman.
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Mirdath
Guest
Hilariously wrong.
Not so funny. You’re almost certainly hurting both other people and yourself with your over-broad and unfounded generalizations and frustrated feelings of entitlement – not to mention the persecution complex.
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cynic
Guest
…so you think one married partner has the unquestionable right to withdraw from the relationship at any point in time, based solely on lack of attraction, with no obligation to make any effort to get it back or even acknowledge the others feelings regarding this. Aha.
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Mirdath
Guest
I haven’t the slightest idea how you have drawn such a conclusion, since I have neither said nor implied anything of the kind one way or the other.
On the other hand, you have:
cynic:
As for the rest of your paragraph:
cynic:
As to anyone’s “right to withdraw from the relationship at any time,” well, yes, legally and ethically everyone has the right to go where they wish at any time (see unlawful restraint) or refuse to have sexual relations (see assault, rape, coercion… and so forth) with anyone for any reason. And one is legally always free to file for divorce and attempt to sever the marriage contract, though like any civil contract, one must either not be contested or provide grounds for termination. Whatever someone’s reasons may be, they may do these things at any time, and are not under any legal obligation to concern themselves with the other party’s “feelings.”
Ethically however, that varies, of course. If one is being physically harmed by their partner, then the victim’s first concern should be their own safety, not the abuser’s “feelings.” On the other hand, if one is abandoning a partnership solely for one’s own gain (pleasure, financial, whatever) without regard for their partner, then yes, they are doing wrong by their partner and their mutual contract.
It’s pretty simple stuff, cynic. Again, please refrain from presuming or projecting upon my ethics and attitudes without examining your own. Aha indeed.
On the other hand, you have:
So presumably you think it’s okay.
As for the rest of your paragraph:
I can’t quite figure out what you mean there. Do you mean “it would be fine with me if my husband left me if one of us (whichever partner you meant, also unclear) no longer wished to get the swerve on,” or possibly “if I were female, it would be somehow more acceptable for me to ditch my uncooperative mate (acceptable to whom I still have no idea)”?
As to anyone’s “right to withdraw from the relationship at any time,” well, yes, legally and ethically everyone has the right to go where they wish at any time (see unlawful restraint) or refuse to have sexual relations (see assault, rape, coercion… and so forth) with anyone for any reason. And one is legally always free to file for divorce and attempt to sever the marriage contract, though like any civil contract, one must either not be contested or provide grounds for termination. Whatever someone’s reasons may be, they may do these things at any time, and are not under any legal obligation to concern themselves with the other party’s “feelings.”
Ethically however, that varies, of course. If one is being physically harmed by their partner, then the victim’s first concern should be their own safety, not the abuser’s “feelings.” On the other hand, if one is abandoning a partnership solely for one’s own gain (pleasure, financial, whatever) without regard for their partner, then yes, they are doing wrong by their partner and their mutual contract.
It’s pretty simple stuff, cynic. Again, please refrain from presuming or projecting upon my ethics and attitudes without examining your own. Aha indeed.
D
DL82
Guest
Avoiding the heated discussion that has taken up the 2nd half of this thread and returning to the OP…
I don’t pretend to have any great theological words of wisdom for the man in question. I don’t know a great deal about NFP either, but it does seem that there is a vicious cycle where you feel under so much pressure by the fact that you can only be intimate with your wife one or two nights in a month.
Can I suggest one way of avoiding performance issues in this situation would be to make the most of that time - eat a healthy diet with plenty of protein and vitamins. Any intense exercise such as running, swimming or cycling is good for the heart, and a healthy heart will help you to perform. Ginseng root is also a good help in that department. Selenium is good for the prostate, and is a general good anti-oxidant (also may help to reduce risk of prostate cancer). I’m sure there are other tips you can find online about the links between healthy eating and a healthy sex life. Send the kids off to bed early, eat a romantic dinner with plenty of natural stimulants in the food.
…
And then go to work the next day without a minute’s sleep. Get a big shot of espresso on your way to work. If it’s only once a month, your body can recover from that, especially if you’re healthy.
That way you can still enjoy the time that you are intimate together, and that in turn might put the spark back into things, and help you to have more desire for one another, which may result in you making more time for eachother in your wife’s natural infertile periods, and in time things can even out into a less intense pattern.
Hope that’s some help to you.
I don’t pretend to have any great theological words of wisdom for the man in question. I don’t know a great deal about NFP either, but it does seem that there is a vicious cycle where you feel under so much pressure by the fact that you can only be intimate with your wife one or two nights in a month.
Can I suggest one way of avoiding performance issues in this situation would be to make the most of that time - eat a healthy diet with plenty of protein and vitamins. Any intense exercise such as running, swimming or cycling is good for the heart, and a healthy heart will help you to perform. Ginseng root is also a good help in that department. Selenium is good for the prostate, and is a general good anti-oxidant (also may help to reduce risk of prostate cancer). I’m sure there are other tips you can find online about the links between healthy eating and a healthy sex life. Send the kids off to bed early, eat a romantic dinner with plenty of natural stimulants in the food.
…
And then go to work the next day without a minute’s sleep. Get a big shot of espresso on your way to work. If it’s only once a month, your body can recover from that, especially if you’re healthy.
That way you can still enjoy the time that you are intimate together, and that in turn might put the spark back into things, and help you to have more desire for one another, which may result in you making more time for eachother in your wife’s natural infertile periods, and in time things can even out into a less intense pattern.
Hope that’s some help to you.
D
DL82
Guest
Having said everything I’ve just said, and at the risk of de-railing this thread again I have a question of my own.
Does the Church still teach that married couples should abstain from intercourse on fast days (i.e. every Friday and the whole of Lent)?
If you’re in the kind of situation the OP seems to be in, and the one day of the month when you have time to yourselves and the fertility signs are right happens to fall on a Friday, that could make things very difficult.
Does the Church still teach that married couples should abstain from intercourse on fast days (i.e. every Friday and the whole of Lent)?
If you’re in the kind of situation the OP seems to be in, and the one day of the month when you have time to yourselves and the fertility signs are right happens to fall on a Friday, that could make things very difficult.
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Mirdath
Guest
I’m quite sure the answer is no - I mean, this is the Catholic Church! They’re hardly about to require passing up all those chances for procreation. 
One can give up sex in the sense of fasting, but as I understand it, doing so only for one’s OWN spiritual gratification without taking one’s partner’s wishes into account rather takes the merit-shine off the sacrifice. And of course, abstaining from doing something one doesn’t want to do anyway (like a 5yr old giving up lima beans for Lent) doesn’t count either.
But yes, absolutely I agree, DL82! A good healthy diet (with attention to specific nutrition and exercise as you suggested) can do wonders for anyone’s happiness, and that includes emotional and sexual happiness. Just the overall sense of well-being would be a great start for the OP. And his wife too! Searching06, it does sound like you’re both under lots of stress from work and everything else, so how is she doing? Is she eating right, getting out, being sociable? How about you? As hopefully the spring thaw comes to your marriage, whether bit by bit or all at once, taking care of yourselves will make taking care of each other extra-wonderful and fun.
Minor edit: sending the kids to bed early is a good idea, but sending them to a sitter’s or friend’s house might be even better.
One can give up sex in the sense of fasting, but as I understand it, doing so only for one’s OWN spiritual gratification without taking one’s partner’s wishes into account rather takes the merit-shine off the sacrifice. And of course, abstaining from doing something one doesn’t want to do anyway (like a 5yr old giving up lima beans for Lent) doesn’t count either.But yes, absolutely I agree, DL82! A good healthy diet (with attention to specific nutrition and exercise as you suggested) can do wonders for anyone’s happiness, and that includes emotional and sexual happiness. Just the overall sense of well-being would be a great start for the OP. And his wife too! Searching06, it does sound like you’re both under lots of stress from work and everything else, so how is she doing? Is she eating right, getting out, being sociable? How about you? As hopefully the spring thaw comes to your marriage, whether bit by bit or all at once, taking care of yourselves will make taking care of each other extra-wonderful and fun.
Minor edit: sending the kids to bed early is a good idea, but sending them to a sitter’s or friend’s house might be even better.
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litllulu
Guest
I think you married people should not take sex for granted. I am sure I would enjoy it immensly. I think a single woman can appreciate a man’s view on this maybe better than a married one. I had relationships and really miss the intimacy that went along with it. I am not speaking about sex either. I have read many books on relationships and they all say that a man recieves intimacy through sexual relations. A woman typically recieves it through hugs, kisses, and having deep discussions.:hug3:
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Em_in_FL
Guest
NOPE…
Abstinence on Fridays during Lent and on Ash Wednesday/Good Friday is, and as far as I know always has been, “abstinence from MEAT”… NOT intercourse!
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searching06
Guest
Welcome DL82 and thank you. I guess I am the OP - other person???
I can guarantee/attest that things are in a vicious cycle, a phrase I almost used at the beginning of all of this. And there are definitely performance issues, let’s say. Hardly helpful in the end run for either desiring sex or enjoying it, emotionally and physically. And it does all tie together as I mentioned - limited time together in general, limited sex, limited intimacy (not sex), little desire for it over time, etc.
I can guarantee/attest that things are in a vicious cycle, a phrase I almost used at the beginning of all of this. And there are definitely performance issues, let’s say. Hardly helpful in the end run for either desiring sex or enjoying it, emotionally and physically. And it does all tie together as I mentioned - limited time together in general, limited sex, limited intimacy (not sex), little desire for it over time, etc.
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searching06
Guest
Been Catholic all my life; never heard that one.
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searching06
Guest
MIrdath, you strike me as one with common sense, wisdom, and quite interesting to boot. I hope we can continue some discussions over time. Thank you for pointing those things out below. My wife is under a lot of her own stress as well, especially lately as she has done the lion’s share of taking care of her mom, who is temporarily living with us. But in general, she handles things very well, though we both do little to no exercising. I do love it when she goes to have her girl’s night out with friends. Makes me feel good.
I’m quite sure the answer is no - I mean, this is the Catholic Church! They’re hardly about to require passing up all those chances for procreation.
But yes, absolutely I agree, DL82! A good healthy diet (with attention to specific nutrition and exercise as you suggested) can do wonders for anyone’s happiness, and that includes emotional and sexual happiness. Just the overall sense of well-being would be a great start for the OP. And his wife too! Searching06, it does sound like you’re both under lots of stress from work and everything else, so how is she doing? Is she eating right, getting out, being sociable? How about you? As hopefully the spring thaw comes to your marriage, whether bit by bit or all at once, taking care of yourselves will make taking care of each other extra-wonderful and fun.
Minor edit: sending the kids to bed early is a good idea, but sending them to a sitter’s or friend’s house might be even better.
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searching06
Guest
Em _in_FL, if I may (and you can virtually slap me if not), you express yourself as a Catholic woman very comfortable with and accepting of sexuality within marriage and the Church’s guidance of it. Have you and your husband always been this way? Have you both had your struggles with church teachings? From a woman’s point of view, how would you help your husband if he was feeling as I do/have? Communication is going to be the foremost thing, I know; but frankly, I don’t know how to even bring up the issue with her. I’m scared of hurting her feelings and her thinking that, well, I am more perverted than I am missing sexual, physical intimacy (not just sex for sex) with her. And of course, this lends to the vicious cycle of things. Your thoughts, if you do not mind. I’ll go jump off a virtual cliff if you’d like…
NOPE…
Abstinence on Fridays during Lent and on Ash Wednesday/Good Friday is, and as far as I know always has been, “abstinence from MEAT”… NOT intercourse!
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searching06
Guest
I don’t think anyone is taking sex for granted. Quite the contrary, I am/we are seeking answers to sex within a Catholic marriage and Church teachings. And quite honestly, being married and normally getting to have sex with your spouse does tend to make you miss it when it doesn’t happen. As for this man, I do find intimacy in the little things my wife does for me as well. I also tend to run against the grain on these things “in books”, because I also cook, clean, help with the kids (diapers when we had them), and all that good stuff books say men do not do. But yes, having wonderful, intimate sex with my wife helps the whole picture.
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Em_in_FL
Guest
You’re welcome to jump off a cliff… just be sure to have some ropes attached… I’ve heard rappelling is lots of fun!Em _in_FL, if I may (and you can virtually slap me if not), you express yourself as a Catholic woman very comfortable with and accepting of sexuality within marriage and the Church’s guidance of it. Have you and your husband always been this way? Have you both had your struggles with church teachings? From a woman’s point of view, how would you help your husband if he was feeling as I do/have? Communication is going to be the foremost thing, I know; but frankly, I don’t know how to even bring up the issue with her. I’m scared of hurting her feelings and her thinking that, well, I am more perverted than I am missing sexual, physical intimacy (not just sex for sex) with her. And of course, this lends to the vicious cycle of things. Your thoughts, if you do not mind. I’ll go jump off a virtual cliff if you’d like…
LOL!
Okay… let’s see if I can share my personal experience.
Yes, my husband and I have always been this way within our marriage.
Now, on one level, I believe my own high level of desire may be partially genetic. I remember my dad’s mom responding to questions on why she had 7 children with "well, we just LOVED makin’ babies!
"… so honestly, I do think that some of the “desire” is physiological. Also, as others have mentioned… I do believe that a healthy lifestyle also contributes to our levels of desire… we’re both fairly active (I go to the gym every week, take long bike rides weekly with the family, etc)…Now… back to the Church’s teachings. My husband has always been an avid apologist himself, so part of the reason why I fell in love with him was his love for reading and understanding the faith. We talked about things like this throughout our years of dating. For us, it just came naturally in our discussions on life. We would read the catechism together and discuss ceratin aspects and look up the references, etc, etc. Our growing knowledge of the beauty of the marital embrace really increased our desire. I guess I was “turned on” by the fact that the Church is so open and accepting of this beautiful sacrament (yes, intercourse within marriage is a SACRAMENT)…
So, how do you broach this subject with your wife? I can’t say, since I don’t know your particular dynamic with your wife. If you regularly talk about faith and teachings of the church, then bring the catechism into your discussions. Have a copy at your desk at work and read ALL the passages on marriage and family, etc, etc. You don’t have to read it like a “book”… just find the applicable sections and use it as a reference. Get a copy of Theology of the Body! Read it over and share what you learn with your wife. Eventually she’ll realize that your motivations are NOT “carnal”
Women (or at least I) love seeing men (or at least my DH) embrace the faith… the side effects (desire for the marital embrace) just seem to flow from that…
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searching06
Guest
Thanks you for indulging me. I’ll have to go get the Theology; seems like that is the best place to start. And we’ll have to get busy and get active - seems to help the “get active and get busy” part! Funny, we should know that because we both used to be more active (I was in the Army - oh, and rappelling is a blast!) and yes, sex was better and we had more desire, and we did it more often, but not always within the confines of Church teaching - we were enlightened to that a few years ago (see first thread). But we also had more time, fewer kids, different schedules. Oddly, things are swinging back in that direction: two of our kids are older and pretty much self-sufficient and on their own schedules; our two youngest are old enough to be left at home if we go out, and it is easier to schedule time with them. Maybe it will leave my wife and I more time.
Thank you so much!
Thank you so much!
You’re welcome to jump off a cliff… just be sure to have some ropes attached… I’ve heard rappelling is lots of fun!
LOL!
Okay… let’s see if I can share my personal experience.
Yes, my husband and I have always been this way within our marriage.
Now, on one level, I believe my own high level of desire may be partially genetic. I remember my dad’s mom responding to questions on why she had 7 children with "well, we just LOVED makin’ babies!
Now… back to the Church’s teachings. My husband has always been an avid apologist himself, so part of the reason why I fell in love with him was his love for reading and understanding the faith. We talked about things like this throughout our years of dating. For us, it just came naturally in our discussions on life. We would read the catechism together and discuss ceratin aspects and look up the references, etc, etc. Our growing knowledge of the beauty of the marital embrace really increased our desire. I guess I was “turned on” by the fact that the Church is so open and accepting of this beautiful sacrament (yes, intercourse within marriage is a SACRAMENT)…
So, how do you broach this subject with your wife? I can’t say, since I don’t know your particular dynamic with your wife. If you regularly talk about faith and teachings of the church, then bring the catechism into your discussions. Have a copy at your desk at work and read ALL the passages on marriage and family, etc, etc. You don’t have to read it like a “book”… just find the applicable sections and use it as a reference. Get a copy of Theology of the Body! Read it over and share what you learn with your wife. Eventually she’ll realize that your motivations are NOT “carnal”
Women (or at least I) love seeing men (or at least my DH) embrace the faith… the side effects (desire for the marital embrace) just seem to flow from that…
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PennitentMan
Guest
Litllullu summs this up perfectly
Thanks.Women tend to find intimacy in other things than sex. And as searching06 echoes:
Men find intimacy in these things too, but also in sex.
This is the crux between men and women, and husband and wifes should *both *understand this.
Men do need to realise that women need the other side of intimacy and women must realise that men require the physical side of intimacy too.
Neither side can expect to have a perect marriage if they neglect this aspect.
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Em_in_FL
Guest
You know… as time goes on, dynamics change…
I may have it good in this area NOW, but you never know in the future. We have to pray to continually have strong marriages!
You guys are in my prayers (searching06 and PM)… I can truly sense your frustration and desire to fix this situation… prayers are amazing and can turn things around…
God bless!
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