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PennitentMan
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Thank you for your prayers, they can work miracles
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PennitentMan
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I can still see how you are looking at a Catholic’s post on a Catholic board with an agnostic point of view, siting legalitites, civil contracts, etc.
We are talking about the Sacrament of a Catholic Marriage.
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DL82
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Searching06, you say that your wife might think you are ‘perverted’ for wanting to have more sexual intimacy with her? I can’t see how this would be the case. It’s not a sin for a husband to desire his wife within marriage.
You also mentioned that you only became aware of some of the limitations of the teachings of the Church on sexual behaviour a few years ago. In your original post you said that your wife got extremely worried about breaking those teachings now (I assume the two things are connected). Have you really repented and made peace with yourselves over having broken those ‘rules’ in ignorance in the past? It sounds to me as if there may be lingering guilt issues there.
Re-orienting your sex life in line with the teaching of the Church is kinda like becoming a vegetarian I guess. If you just cut out the meat, and only eat side-salad and potatoes for every meal, then you’ll feel hungry and be lacking in protein (what is it with me and food analogies today
). You need to replace it with something else that gives you the same nutrition and fills you up, but without killing an animal to get it.
Basically, what I’m saying is, do you still feel that you’re missing the things you used to do, and need to use guilt or fear to keep yourselves from doing them? If so, maybe you need to think of other ways of gaining physical pleasure from intimacy that don’t involve those sinful practices. Be creative, explore, have fun together, enjoy just being with one another, then maybe you’ll feel freer to express yourselves without feeling that you’re walking some tight-rope between guilt and fear.
You also mentioned that you only became aware of some of the limitations of the teachings of the Church on sexual behaviour a few years ago. In your original post you said that your wife got extremely worried about breaking those teachings now (I assume the two things are connected). Have you really repented and made peace with yourselves over having broken those ‘rules’ in ignorance in the past? It sounds to me as if there may be lingering guilt issues there.
Re-orienting your sex life in line with the teaching of the Church is kinda like becoming a vegetarian I guess. If you just cut out the meat, and only eat side-salad and potatoes for every meal, then you’ll feel hungry and be lacking in protein (what is it with me and food analogies today
). You need to replace it with something else that gives you the same nutrition and fills you up, but without killing an animal to get it.Basically, what I’m saying is, do you still feel that you’re missing the things you used to do, and need to use guilt or fear to keep yourselves from doing them? If so, maybe you need to think of other ways of gaining physical pleasure from intimacy that don’t involve those sinful practices. Be creative, explore, have fun together, enjoy just being with one another, then maybe you’ll feel freer to express yourselves without feeling that you’re walking some tight-rope between guilt and fear.
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Mirdath
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PennitentMan:
Cynic asked about “rights” and those are what I discussed. This is a Catholic-oriented board, but it’s open to all for the free exchange of ideas. And please note that I briefly addressed the ethical issues, as well as being aware and respectful of the Catholic teachings on these matters when responding to Searching06’s questions (and yours too, I might add).
And cynic is not a Catholic either, according to his profile.
To the Original Poster (OP in Net-ese):
Thank you for your kind words, Searching06! Wishing you all the very best, and yes, I look forward to future discussions as well.
Cynic asked about “rights” and those are what I discussed. This is a Catholic-oriented board, but it’s open to all for the free exchange of ideas. And please note that I briefly addressed the ethical issues, as well as being aware and respectful of the Catholic teachings on these matters when responding to Searching06’s questions (and yours too, I might add).
And cynic is not a Catholic either, according to his profile.
To the Original Poster (OP in Net-ese):
Thank you for your kind words, Searching06! Wishing you all the very best, and yes, I look forward to future discussions as well.
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dublingirl
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I was really touched by your posts PennitentMan and though I have no real advice to offer in the area you are talking about (being a single girl myself) I offered up my Mass and my hour of Adoration for you this morning. I can imagine what you’re going through is extremely difficult. The only thing I might suggest is a novena to St Joseph - he lived a celibate life after marrying Our Lady and although he made a choice and decision to embrace that way of life before he married and I know that you (rightly) didn’t he might be able to help you in the situation you now find yourself in.Thank you for your prayers, they can work miracles
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PennitentMan
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Wow! Thank you dublingirl! That is such a great honour for you to offer it up for me! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
Funny you should mention this, I just finished a novena to St. Joseph, ending on his Feast Day, March 19th
I’m sure his intercseeion is assisting me. I will continue to pray for his intercesion in my life.Thank you again for the great gesture!
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PennitentMan
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You know, I think I have to appologize here.PennitentMan:
Cynic asked about “rights” and those are what I discussed. This is a Catholic-oriented board, but it’s open to all for the free exchange of ideas. And please note that I briefly addressed the ethical issues as well as being aware and respectful of the Catholic teachings on these matters when responding to Searching06’s questions (and yours too, I might add).
And cynic is not a Catholic either, according to his profile.
And thank you for your kind words, Searching06! Wishing you all the very best, and yes, I look forward to future discussions as well.
Ya got me all grumped out yesterday
, and I think I transferred that onto today.I’m sorry that I singled out this post here, I’m sure I didn’t read it carefully enough. I’ll try to be more tolerant in future.
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Mirdath
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Hey, it’s okay. I do understand you’ve got reasons to be a little on edge, you know? 
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PennitentMan
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Yah, toooooo rightHey, it’s okay. I do understand you’ve got reasons to be a little on edge, you know?
Thanks.
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searching06
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All quite interesting.
Oh, boy…
I absolutely miss the things we used to do, not just physical acts, but because I was more frequently sexually inimate with my wife. I think everyone acknowledges it does bring you closer. But the Church does not allow it and the fear of sin seems to hang over our having sex to the point where it is just not enjoyable if I’m worrying about what my wife is worrying about. Em_in FL?Searching06, you say that your wife might think you are ‘perverted’ for wanting to have more sexual intimacy with her? I can’t see how this would be the case. It’s not a sin for a husband to desire his wife within marriage.
Oh, boy - let’s see here - my drive has always been stronger and as such, I tend to want to try different things as a married couple, but well within the bounds of marriage. You just need to shake things up sometimes. As I said, I absolutely love pleasing my wife and obviously want to feel physical pleasure as well; I wish she felt the same as/for me these last few years (and she may, I just can’t tell sometimes). But since we came to understand (difficult for me still to accept) that orgasm for the man is not supposed to happen any other way than intercourse (even in the course of foreplay), she pretty much focuses on just intercourse, with little reciprocation physically before or after. This is going to get into “details”, but: I know it is more of a woman thing and tied to intimacy, but she also is very focused on reaching orgasm together almost all of the time. My impression is that this is somehow/subconsciously tied to church teaching since I can only orgasm through intercourse. So it just seems the spontaneity has just gone out of things. Woman’s point of view here?
You also mentioned that you only became aware of some of the limitations of the teachings of the Church on sexual behaviour a few years ago. In your original post you said that your wife got extremely worried about breaking those teachings now (I assume the two things are connected). Have you really repented and made peace with yourselves over having broken those ‘rules’ in ignorance in the past? It sounds to me as if there may be lingering guilt issues there.
Yes, the two are connected. I never really considered needing to repent of it since we did not know and honestly believed that as a married couple, pleasing each other when we needed or wanted outside of intercourse was well within the confines of our marriage vows and the church; knowing differently now, we do our best to stick to it, hence my frustration. There is no guilt from broken rules in the past as such, though we have briefly discussed it. The guilt, and honestly more on my wife’s part than mine, comes from if I reach orgasm prior to intercourse, to the point where there is little “physical affection” by her to me even in foreplay because she is so focused on nothing happening before intercourse. We recently did actually get to spend a night out away from kids and in a hotel. Let’s say some wonderful spontaneity on my wife’s part accelerated things for me, but the night was wonderful for both of us in a number of ways - physically together intimately, no time rush, no kids. Her spontaneity made me feel like she wanted me, but more so, I felt it was an incredible gift of loving expression by her. A day or two later, I mentioned how wonderful I thought it was and the first things she said was, “Except for the Catholic thing.” Flat out took the pleasant memories away from that night.
Re-orienting your sex life in line with the teaching of the Church is kinda like becoming a vegetarian I guess. If you just cut out the meat, and only eat side-salad and potatoes for every meal, then you’ll feel hungry and be lacking in protein (what is it with me and food analogies today
Basically, what I’m saying is, do you still feel that you’re missing the things you used to do, and need to use guilt or fear to keep yourselves from doing them? If so, maybe you need to think of other ways of gaining physical pleasure from intimacy that don’t involve those sinful practices. Be creative, explore, have fun together, enjoy just being with one another, then maybe you’ll feel freer to express yourselves without feeling that you’re walking some tight-rope between guilt and fear.
Oh, boy…
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searching06
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I have carried the novena to St. Joseph since I received it in the middle of the desert when I went to Desert Storm in 1990. I have thought praying it for exactly this reason, but never have. I’ll have to do that.
Wow! Thank you dublingirl! That is such a great honour for you to offer it up for me! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
Funny you should mention this, I just finished a novena to St. Joseph, ending on his Feast Day, March 19th
Thank you again for the great gesture!
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searching06
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Well, the board here got REALLY quiet all of a sudden. Hope I did not blow anyone’s mind. I have a tendency to point out the elephants in the room and try to be straight with answers…if not, we all end up dancing around the subject.
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Em_in_FL
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Sorry… I was out at lunch!
The only requirement in sexual intimacy is that the husband finish inside the wife. When and where the wife does is not defined.
Can you be slightly more specific on what she thinks the Church does not allow?
Again… the only requirement in sexual intimacy is that the husband finish inside the wife. When and where the wife does is not defined.
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PennitentMan
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Not at all, I really like and appreciate the openess and honesty
Here’s some more openess to let you know you are not alone.
To be honest, my experiences with spousal intimacy since becoming Catholic is very similar to yours, where my wife is so worried about doing the right thing, that it ends up being a 10 minute thing, *maybe *once a month, with little or no tought to anything except the actual deed.
It’s like she wants it to be over and done with ASAP. There is just enough stimulation to make it happen…if you cath my drift, and that’s it…
I feel exactly like you in that I really do miss the “old times”. It feels like my wife and I were much closer back then…Now I’m just frustrated all the time
It does appear that you guys have a bit easier time in communicating that we do, that’s something.
I have mentioned this to her repeatedly, but it does not have any effect. The fear is too great, and if I menion it she gets very offended and thinks it’s some sort of attack on her…
So, now I’m quite frustrated and stuck in a very constrictive corner. I have tried and tried and tried, now I just suck it up and continue to strive to be the best father/husband/catholic I can be regardless of what I feel inside.
Sorry about the blatant post, but I did it just to let you know that you are not alone in this at all brother!
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searching06
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Sorry… I was out at lunch!
The only requirement in sexual intimacy is that the husband finish inside the wife. When and where the wife does is not defined.
Can you be slightly more specific on what she thinks the Church does not allow?
We both understand and have read the same as you, I imagine, within the Catechism - the husband must finish inside the wife. The “not allowed” part is my finishing by any act other than intercourse, which while it frustrates me, I can understand and I believe from what I read, is correct. It just seems my wife is so focused on my not finishing any other way even by accident or too soon that it diminishes the intimacy. Would I love to occassionally finish by other means? Yes, but even I have to admit that goes directly to the heart of and against the Catechism. And I have to respect my wife for that even if I am frustrated. But I have to also hope and think (how do you pray for a better sexual realtionship???) that our sexual relationship and overall intimacy can improve. I am pretty sure that, as I believe PenitentMan wrote that a priest told him, I must “adjust (my) attitude and move on”. And in this I am trying harder to pray and resist sin.
Again… the only requirement in sexual intimacy is that the husband finish inside the wife. When and where the wife does is not defined.
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searching06
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Not at all, I really like and appreciate the openess and honesty
Here’s some more openess to let you know you are not alone.
To be honest, my experiences with spousal intimacy since becoming Catholic is very similar to yours, where my wife is so worried about doing the right thing, that it ends up being a 10 minute thing, *maybe *once a month, with little or no tought to anything except the actual deed.
It’s like she wants it to be over and done with ASAP. There is just enough stimulation to make it happen…if you cath my drift, and that’s it…
For me, this ties into the “performance” issue as well. The infrequency of being with my wife tends to make things progress more quickly than I would like, which frustrates me even more. And any method I have researched to help such"premature" issues also goes against the church if I finish in the process.
I feel exactly like you in that I really do miss the “old times”. It feels like my wife and I were much closer back then…Now I’m just frustrated all the time
It does appear that you guys have a bit easier time in communicating that we do, that’s something.
Part of the strength of our marriage had been communication. We are trying hard to make it so again. However, discusssing these issues are difficult to bring up.
I have mentioned this to her repeatedly, but it does not have any effect. The fear is too great, and if I menion it she gets very offended and thinks it’s some sort of attack on her…
So, now I’m quite frustrated and stuck in a very constrictive corner. I have tried and tried and tried, now I just suck it up and continue to strive to be the best father/husband/catholic I can be regardless of what I feel inside.
Sorry about the blatant post, but I did it just to let you know that you are not alone in this at all brother!
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Em_in_FL
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Not to be graphic…
But is there any way to take care of your wife completely before yourself?? Would this help at all in the area of “prematurity”??
But is there any way to take care of your wife completely before yourself?? Would this help at all in the area of “prematurity”??
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TOP
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Yah for the Church in this area!!!
Since I went through testicular cancer, I have been more senstive for some reason. Now I use foreplay to time things just right. You got to find out what kind of foreplay does it for her. Talk about it. Tim
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searching06
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Not graphic at all, I appreciate your openness. I would love and do love to do just that, because it is a deep part of the intimacy to me and you are correct - the Catechism leaves it open to how a woman finishes (and I thought I read once it is the obligation of her husband to make sure she does so she is not left frustrated). But this goes to where my wife is most often focused on finishing together. She will occassionally let me take care of her completely first.
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searching06
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That is one area I think we do have worked out for when she’ll let me…Yah for the Church in this area!!!
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