I was quite clear that to do repentance is doing the act of suffering which is indeed penance.
:
You choice of words continue to confuse me, and I fear others as well. But too say more I would only be a repeating what I have already posted.I was quite clear that to do repentance is doing the act of suffering which is indeed penance.
You are the one that claims that to repent and to repentance is the same act.
Tell me if to repent and do repentance is indeed the same thing. Why are we told to REPENT and SIN NO MORE. Why does it say and sin no more. If indeed it is the same act?
I also feel the same way. I can say no more, or explain what I believe any better then I already have. I feel that I have explained and showed in scripture also what I have been taught.
The persons in a parable don’t necessarily have to represent something other than what they are, although they might. The rich man doesn’t have to be anything other than a rich man. He doesn’t have to symbolize Israel or anthing. The poor man doesn’t have to be anything but a poor man. Your interpretation might be true but that is not the only possibility. The parable of the rich man and the poor man certainly relates to the relationship between two individual men (the rich and poor man) and the result of how the rich man treated the poor man. The interpretation of hell in this parable can not be avoided. There are different depths to parables that all might be true.
When Jesus talks in parables again there are many of lessons to be learned. You cannot say that is was a certain Rich Man. Again I was taught there is alot to be shown. Again the parable did not say that the rich man turned completely away from God. It also did not say that at his death bed he was not sorry, And the parable also did not say that you cannot repent venial sin after death. Which is what you have all been saying to me. I asked for proof the way you see it. I showed my proof the way I see it. I was taught again no one knows the mercy of God and the mercy he will or will not give to another human being. All I said is, this to me shows the rich man in purgatory. No one has showed me how I am wrong yet. All they are doing is giving me others views on it. All I get it mean remarks, but nothing that can say what I am saying is untrue! I also said I believe we could all be the rich man one time or another in our life. Judge and be judged. I would pray that if I was blind to some kind if teachings of Christ that he would have Mercy on me. And I believe he had mercy on the rich man. I have yet to hear many other views. Just judgement on my view actually.
Do you realize that would you write here is in direct conflict with what Pope John Paul II taught on this parable?
No David could you show me what I said that is in direct conflict with the Pope?
The intermediate state the Jews spoke of is not the same idea as purgatory. It is called sheol. This is generally what is understood when it is said that Christ descended into hell.Pope Benedict points out that the State the rich man finds himself is not yet the eternal punishment of hell. According to the Jewish belief but an intermediate State between death and ressurrection. A final State yet to be pronounced. (spe Salvi n 44)
Again this intermediate State is what we call purgatory.
Tell me David what did I say that is so wrong. Is this not waiting for the Mercy Of our Lord Jesus Christ. ANd again where is the rich man. Where is the State.
I never said where the rich man went. I said he was in Purgatory.
Purgatory does not happen until after we are judged.Pope Benedict points out that the State the rich man finds himself is not yet the eternal punishment of hell. According to the Jewish belief but an intermediate State between death and ressurrection. A final State yet to be pronounced. (spe Salvi n 44)
Again this intermediate State is what we call purgatory.
Tell me David what did I say that is so wrong. Is this not waiting for the Mercy Of our Lord Jesus Christ. ANd again where is the rich man. Where is the State.
I never said where the rich man went. I said he was in Purgatory.
From Luke 16Pope Benedict points out that the State the rich man finds himself is not yet the eternal punishment of hell. According to the Jewish belief but an intermediate State between death and ressurrection. A final State yet to be pronounced. (spe Salvi n 44)
Again this intermediate State is what we call purgatory.
Tell me David what did I say that is so wrong. Is this not waiting for the Mercy Of our Lord Jesus Christ. ANd again where is the rich man. Where is the State.
I never said where the rich man went. I said he was in Purgatory.
If this “chasm” cannot be crossed, there is no reason to believe that the rich man is in a place of purification (purgatory). The rich man can never be where Lazarus is, which is eventually heaven.
Okay but hold on isn’t sheol the hades the same place. That is where we get the whole idea of purgatory. In the OT it was a place where the soul got purged correct.
No. The Limbo of the Fathers (sheol, hades, gehenna, or whatever you choose to call it) ceased to exist when Jesus arose from the dead. It was replaced with Purgatory, Heaven, and Hell.
The writer of the book of Proverbs had no concept of an afterlife; he was referring to being purged in this life.
No, it is simply the place where all those who died went. It is not for purgation or for punishment. I think P. Benedict talks a little about it in his book on Eschatology.
No from what I have read it was the same place in the OT. The cleansing of impurity and sin.
Only Limbo is all that Pope B disagreed with. Again he agree with the OT and the RC agrees with it. We just call the in between place purgatory from what I understand.No. The Limbo of the Fathers (sheol, hades, gehenna, or whatever you choose to call it) ceased to exist when Jesus arose from the dead. It was replaced with Purgatory, Heaven, and Hell.
The writer of the book of Proverbs had no concept of an afterlife; he was referring to being purged in this life.
No, it had nothing to do with purification or cleansing. It was simply a place where the dead were. It is a somewhat depraved existence. P. Benedict speaks of it as a place where the LORD was not (according to the understanding of the Jews). On the contrary, purgatory is understood to be after the resurrection. The resurrection is a statement that God has power even over sheol, or the place of the dead. The RC doesn’t make any comparrison between Purgatory and Sheol. The RC speaks of it as the Limbo of the Fathers, a holding place for those who died before Christ. Just like the concept of limbo of infants is not a place of purification neither is that of the fathers.
The problem is that P. Benedict never speaks of Sheol being equivalent to purgatory. It is not an in between place in the OT, it is simply the place of the dead. Maybe in some of the later books of the OT it could be concieved as an intermediate place like in Macc. but it is not spoken of as a place of purification.