Led Zeppelin Satanic?

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On the contrary, Chad. this only affirms his diabolical nature that he would associate with that little punk LOL! :eek:
Okay, nobody take this the wrong way, but when I first saw that commercial I kinda lost faith in the Prince of Darkness. Anyhow, we all know it’s Sharon’s fault. 😛

ChadS
 
The MTV show “The Osbournes” revealed the Prince of Darkness was not so dark long before Justin “Chipmunk face” Bieber came along! 😛
Okay, nobody take this the wrong way, but when I first saw that commercial I kinda lost faith in the Prince of Darkness. Anyhow, we all know it’s Sharon’s fault. 😛

ChadS
 
The MTV show “The Osbournes” revealed the Prince of Darkness was not so dark long before Justin “Chipmunk face” Bieber came along! 😛
I know, I know, it’s been one long downhill slide. I still would like to get his latest album … does anybody know if it’s any good?

ChadS
 
That one album a couple back had the song “Dreamer” that sounded really good, till you get to the lyrics…

“Your higher power may be God or Jesus Christ,
It doesn’t matter much to me…”

That pretty much says it all there…😦
I know, I know, it’s been one long downhill slide. I still would like to get his latest album … does anybody know if it’s any good?

ChadS
 
That one album a couple back had the song “Dreamer” that sounded really good, till you get to the lyrics…

“Your higher power may be God or Jesus Christ,
It doesn’t matter much to me…”

That pretty much says it all there…😦
That’s too bad, I think I have that album, I’ll have to look at my collection to see if it’s on there. I enjoyed the album he did of cover song he had out a few years back, especially his song with Leslie West.

ChadS
 
…He needs plenty of penance! 😃
That’s between himself, God, and his priest.

Besides, if we are to judge one on his actions, Alex is very warmhearted, generous, and forgiving. There are DOZENS of accounts of his acts of charity from the heart over the course of his career. That did not happen by chance…Regardless of the songs he plays, his actions illustrate one who strives to be Christ-like, even if on a subconscious level. That will be what matters when he faces his Creator. Same for all of us.

If you read Neil’s book Ghost Rider, Neil mentions not understanding the religion and dogma, yet finding great peace in the architecture of classic cathedrals. One can only pray that that peace will soon transcend the brick and mortar.
 
kmaaj,

Notice the 😃 face I put next to my statement. You took me a little too seriously, bro. I’ve been a Rush fan for years. I’ve learned A LOT as a guitar-player myself from watching Alex. I even have a video guitar lesson from him. He’s a very personable, neat guy. Very mellow and friendly. I don’t approve of all their lyrics and themes. I think you can agree that objectivism, Ayn Rand, atheism, and relativism are themes of their songs. It’s plain as day and Neil Peart has proudly said as much. I don’t know Alex’s faith nor am I qualified to judge his salvation. He’s probably a better guy than me. It was a joke. Don’t take things so seriously bro. This is an “Is Led Zeppelin Satanic?” thread! 😛
That’s between himself, God, and his priest.

Besides, if we are to judge one on his actions, Alex is very warmhearted, generous, and forgiving. There are DOZENS of accounts of his acts of charity from the heart over the course of his career. That did not happen by chance…Regardless of the songs he plays, his actions illustrate one who strives to be Christ-like, even if on a subconscious level. That will be what matters when he faces his Creator. Same for all of us.

If you read Neil’s book Ghost Rider, Neil mentions not understanding the religion and dogma, yet finding great peace in the architecture of classic cathedrals. One can only pray that that peace will soon transcend the brick and mortar.
 
… I don’t approve of all their lyrics and themes. I think you can agree that objectivism, Ayn Rand, atheism, and relativism are themes of their songs. It’s plain as day and Neil Peart has proudly said as much. …
…It’s just lyrics, very often posed as questions, and as plain as day that 1) Neil questions a lot of commonly mis-perceived dogmas, 2) in the process, very rarely if ever states anything as absolute fact, and 3) the unconditional love that exists in the entire Rush organization and flows outward is in fact, very Christ-like in quality.

The dude is on an incredible journey, and has 2 very close friends to help him through it.

I am VERY confident that Neil could more easily establish a footing with RCC/EO theology and mindset than he could with Reformed/Protestant theology and mindset.

After spending too much time in the poisionous CARM barnyard, I know that the Roman Catholic could practice faith more easily in a world run by Neil Peart than in a world run by John Calvin.

Humor is noted, I just do not question anyone’s salvation. Even Jimmy Page’s. As it pertains to the thread, I see “When the Levee Breaks” as a lamentation. “As I Lay Dying” is a classic folk song, covered by many, and is also a lamentation. Anyone who only sees occultic references in Zep’s music is not taking the view from high enough. Look at the whole, and there are a lot of subjects coming into play and intertwining with each other. The same can be said for Rush.
 
“just lyrics?” That’s what a band is all about…lyrics? The lyrics are didactic, influential, and represent the mindset of the band unless dully noted…Take “Freewill” for example:

***There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance take,
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.

A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
“The stars aren’t aligned,
Or the gods are malign…”
Blame is better to give than receive.***

and then it gets worse!

All preordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can’t pray for a place
In heaven’s unearthly estate.


Or take the song “Roll the Bones.” Again the randomness of life is examined. Life has no God guiding it. If it does, He’s have to be a monster. Life is purely random…that’s Rush’s ongoing message:

Faith is cold as ice –
Why are little ones born only to suffer
For the want of immunity
Or a bowl of rice?
Well, who would hold a price
On the heads of the innocent children
If there’s some immortal power
To control the dice?


Or Neil’s constant preoccupation with selfishness from his Ayn Rand Objectivist obsession: From the song “Anthem”

Live for yourself…there’s no one else
More worth living for
Begging hands and bleeding hearts will only cry out for more

Well, I know they’ve always told you
Selfishness was wrong
Yet it was for me, not you, I came to write this song


In the early 80’s Peart said “I am no one’s disciple!” in an interview about his religious and philosophical views. He is an open atheist, libertarian, and as you said, very much into charity. He’s totally into secularism, admitedly.

Look at the song “Ghost of a Chance” and read these lyrics, tell me if these don’t promote skepticism at the very least, atheism at the greatest:

I don’t believe in destiny
Or the guiding hand of fate
I don’t believe in forever
Or love as a mystical state
I don’t believe in the stars or the planets
Or angels watching from above
But I believe there’s a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love
And make it last…


And on the song “Nobody’s Hero” from Counterparts album, Rush sings this:

I knew he was different in his sexuality
I went to his parties as a straight minority
It never seemed a threat to my masculinity
He only introduced me to a wider reality
As the years went by, we drifted apart
When I heard that he was gone
I felt a shadow cross my heart


Now if you want to say, “yeah, but Rush does so much to give to charity” nobody, least of all me, will disagree with you, BUT, there are atheist groups that give to charity all the time. There are horrible celebrities that are pro-abortion and pro gay marriage and pro everything ruining our society who give huge amounts of $$$ to charity. So the charity part is nice, but it doesn’t cancel out the harm that lyrics can do.

When I was in high school, I was very impressionable with lyrics. And these lyrics bugged me. I listened to them. Some Rush songs like “Subdivisions” struck a real chord with me as a teen. But these tunes were a turn-off. To some they might be inspiring…I stand by my view. I find Rush entertaining, talented as heck (!!!) and like mostly everything they made. I know everything about them and have followed them since my youth. I’ve seen them in concert as well. But I think they have some disturbing themes, lyrics, and I think it can be harmful.

Are they going to hell? Heck if I know? I never said they were??? :confused:
…It’s just lyrics, very often posed as questions, and as plain as day that 1) Neil questions a lot of commonly mis-perceived dogmas, 2) in the process, very rarely if ever states anything as absolute fact, and 3) the unconditional love that exists in the entire Rush organization and flows outward is in fact, very Christ-like in quality.

The dude is on an incredible journey, and has 2 very close friends to help him through it.

I am VERY confident that Neil could more easily establish a footing with RCC/EO theology and mindset than he could with Reformed/Protestant theology and mindset.

After spending too much time in the poisionous CARM barnyard, I know that the Roman Catholic could practice faith more easily in a world run by Neil Peart than in a world run by John Calvin.

Humor is noted, I just do not question anyone’s salvation. Even Jimmy Page’s. As it pertains to the thread, I see “When the Levee Breaks” as a lamentation. “As I Lay Dying” is a classic folk song, covered by many, and is also a lamentation. Anyone who only sees occultic references in Zep’s music is not taking the view from high enough. Look at the whole, and there are a lot of subjects coming into play and intertwining with each other. The same can be said for Rush.
 
“Acts of charity” and “giving to charity” are 2 different things, you ascribed the former to me when I clearly said the first.

I do not know the band personally but I do know about their inner workings through people I know who have done work for them,

If the lyrics bug you, don’t listen to or read them. I for the most part do not agree with them and at the same time am not offended by them. There are plenty of lyrics in the CCM scene that I find vulgar by comparison.
 
Not sure why you’re being so combative, kmaaj? I don’t need the advice about listening to lyrics or not. I am a grown man, thank you. If you paid any attention to my posts and actually read the lyrics, which I’m not sure you did, you’d notice I said “as a teenager” and “when I was younger” references, right? I don’t stay up till 2am pondering the meanings of Rush lyrics. This thread was talking about these topics and I mentioned the fact that even Rush, a band that is quite talented and definitely NOT Satanic, has had some disturbing lyrics and trends that got me bothered enough to jump off the bus. I joked that Alex will have some penance to do playing all these atheist songs. I accompanied this :D:D with my statement. It was a joke, It didn’t land. You got deeply offended and we’ve had this silly exchange. I’m done. I get the point. Alex is Orthodox and we don’t know his inner workings. That’s a no-brainer anyway. Nobody can or should judge anyone’s salvation in any case. I might joke telling another poster that he needs to do penance for listening to Justin Bieber. You, obviously not knowing me very well, might think I’m condemning all J.B. listeners. Whatever. It’s a joke. We have different senses of humor. That’s fine.

Let’s end the Alex Lifeston apologetics crusade and get back to Zeppelin. Satanic or not?

I vote no. 🙂

All hail Alex Lifeson! 😛
http://www.gibson.com/Files/aaFeaturesImages2009/alex_lifeson_sig.jpg
“Acts of charity” and “giving to charity” are 2 different things, you ascribed the former to me when I clearly said the first.

I do not know the band personally but I do know about their inner workings through people I know who have done work for them,

If the lyrics bug you, don’t listen to or read them. I for the most part do not agree with them and at the same time am not offended by them. There are plenty of lyrics in the CCM scene that I find vulgar by comparison.
 
I might joke telling another poster that he needs to do penance for listening to Justin Bieber. You, obviously not knowing me very well, might think I’m condemning all J.B. listeners. Whatever. It’s a joke. We have different senses of humor. That’s fine.
If you’re referring to me I’m deeply offended!! I never said I listened to Justin Bieber, I would never pollute my ears with that vile filth!! (notice how the exclamation points register my disgust and indignation!!). I am not a belieber (which apparently is legions of fans are known as).

I guess I never really that much attention to Rush’s lyrics because none of those rang a bell at all. I however really do like Tom Sawyer and Free Will, even if they do express questionable philosophies.

ChadS
 
Hard to read tone sometimes online. Are you kidding here or do you really think I was referring to you (which I was not at all?)…

You know I was kidding right? I can’t win today! 😊🤷

Personally if the lyrics contradict my values too much, even though I’m a guitarist for 23 years now, I cannot in good conscience listen to it. That’s just me. Freewill has one of the best guitar grooves on the Permanent Waves album but it’s a turnoff for me.

Again, apologies if you were serious and actually thought I was referring to you, Chad?
If you’re referring to me I’m deeply offended!! I never said I listened to Justin Bieber, I would never pollute my ears with that vile filth!! (notice how the exclamation points register my disgust and indignation!!). I am not a belieber (which apparently is legions of fans are known as).

I guess I never really that much attention to Rush’s lyrics because none of those rang a bell at all. I however really do like Tom Sawyer and Free Will, even if they do express questionable philosophies.

ChadS
 
Hard to read tone sometimes online. Are you kidding here or do you really think I was referring to you (which I was not at all?)…

You know I was kidding right? I can’t win today! 😊🤷

Personally if the lyrics contradict my values too much, even though I’m a guitarist for 23 years now, I cannot in good conscience listen to it. That’s just me. Freewill has one of the best guitar grooves on the Permanent Waves album but it’s a turnoff for me.

Again, apologies if you were serious and actually thought I was referring to you, Chad?
No I’m not offended at all, I guess I should’ve put one of these 😛 or perhaps one of these 😉 to indicate I was kidding.

Back in high school I messed around with the guitar for a little bit, but I could never move beyond some plucking and my fingers never seemed to want to do the right thing. A cool Zep riff I’ve always loved is the bass line on “Dazed and Confused.”

ChadS
 
Got to say, whoever was saying “it’s just lyrics” - well, these things influence people! People learn the songs and are inclined to believe what their favourite musicians are preaching, and make no mistake, it is genuinely preaching!!

…actually, the LP cover for Sabbath Bloody Sabbath always looked a bit pro-God to me - remember, the outside is someone being tortured by demons, the inside appearing to be the band performing an exorcism!! But the lyrics, as far as I can tell, probably don’t have a religious message. But seriously, the earliest 3 albums (which, remember, are easily the best!) Are often very pro-religious - if these things bother you Gurney Halleck (and they often bother me too) - why go any further later, when this stuff seems to want God on it’s side?!?
 
I learned how to play “Rock 'n Roll” from Zeppelin this week. After all these years it was something I still hadn’t gotten to! LOL…It’s a fun song to play. It sounds great on my Telecaster with the overdrive on my Fender M80 amp. It has a great groove to it. A song I always liked was Achilles’ Last Stand, great guitar work on that. No Quarter is neat. Dazed and Confused is a classic like you said. I learned how to play “Ten Years’ Gone” recently. That sounds great on a Strat or Tele. Stairway is a must. Zeppelin is fun. Problem with Jimmy Page is he likes to tune down a lot and I’m just too lazy to do all that garbage.
No I’m not offended at all, I guess I should’ve put one of these 😛 or perhaps one of these 😉 to indicate I was kidding.

Back in high school I messed around with the guitar for a little bit, but I could never move beyond some plucking and my fingers never seemed to want to do the right thing. A cool Zep riff I’ve always loved is the bass line on “Dazed and Confused.”

ChadS
 
I learned how to play “Rock 'n Roll” from Zeppelin this week. After all these years it was something I still hadn’t gotten to! LOL…It’s a fun song to play. It sounds great on my Telecaster with the overdrive on my Fender M80 amp. It has a great groove to it. A song I always liked was Achilles’ Last Stand, great guitar work on that. No Quarter is neat. Dazed and Confused is a classic like you said. I learned how to play “Ten Years’ Gone” recently. That sounds great on a Strat or Tele. Stairway is a must. Zeppelin is fun. Problem with Jimmy Page is he likes to tune down a lot and I’m just too lazy to do all that garbage.
Dazed and confused is probably one of my favourite LZ songs… and nice and easy to play - I love it! Supposed to be nicked, riff wise, of someone else though…
 
I learned how to play “Ten Years’ Gone” recently. That sounds great on a Strat or Tele.
Do you drop your D? I can nail it on my 70’s Strat into an AC30. My MIM Nashville tele into my vibroverb does respectably well.
 
I don’t drop anything actually. I never do drop-D tuning. I play it standard on my Strat or Tele. Ten Years Gone isn’t a drop-D song from what I’ve seen of all the lessons online and copy-catters…I suppose you can play it that way though!

You should put up pics of your Nashville Tele. I’d be interested in seeing it. Mine is a 2008 Standard Strat Mexico, not American edition. It retailed for around $500 (didn’t buy it for that though! :p). My Strat is a 2006 Standard Mex Strat. LOVE 'EM both!!! I’m partial to Strats more than anything. I don’t even own a Les Paul. Jimmy Page would shunn me 😛 But at least he played a Tele on their first three albums or so!
Do you drop your D? I can nail it on my 70’s Strat into an AC30. My MIM Nashville tele into my vibroverb does respectably well.
 
I don’t drop anything actually. I never do drop-D tuning. I play it standard on my Strat or Tele. Ten Years Gone isn’t a drop-D song from what I’ve seen of all the lessons online and copy-catters…I suppose you can play it that way though!
It has been documented that Jimmy Page recorded that song entirely with a strat that belonged to John Paul Jones. I have played that song, as well as many others by Zep for 30+ years now. All of the song can be played in normal tuning -except- for the bridge in between the 2 guitar solos. The rapidly moving power chords are much easier with one finger than with 2, and they clearly resolve to a “D” one whole step -below- the low E in normal tuning. I found the tab closest to the way I do it and modded it a bit to what my ear tells me. On the last Dsus2 chord, pick with an upstroke close to the bridge:

“Do you ever remember…”
-----------------------------------------------------------0-|
-----------------------------------------------------------3-|
-----------------------------------------------------------2-|
-4-5-7-9-7-5-5-5-5–5-5-5-5-5-5-5–5-5-5-0–0-|
-4-5-7-9-7-5-5-5-5–5-5-5-5-5-5-5–5-5-5-0-----|
-4-5-7-9-7-5-5-5-5–5-5-5-5-5-5-5–5-5-5-0-----|

As with ALL Zep tunes, the timing is the hardest part. Add to this the fact that Page often uses upstrokes where most would use a downstroke.
You should put up pics of your Nashville Tele. I’d be interested in seeing it. Mine is a 2008 Standard Strat Mexico, not American edition. It retailed for around $500 (didn’t buy it for that though! :p). My Strat is a 2006 Standard Mex Strat. LOVE 'EM both!!! I’m partial to Strats more than anything. I don’t even own a Les Paul. Jimmy Page would shunn me 😛 But at least he played a Tele on their first three albums or so!
It’s just standard fare readily available at any mail order house. I traded a couple of condenser mics for it and some $$$, the neck was badly bowed and the frets stuck out, but it sounded good. I put some work into it (I am a luthier) and now it plays good. I will eventually trick it out with better everything. Even though Page is mostly visible with an LP, he has used a lot of stuff. I have a photo of him at the “Outrider” concert I was at with a PRS.
 
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